(Poll) Who would you start this weekend? The Wolford/Goff Collection Thread

[FrantikRam]

Let's just say I don't believe that.



How is that even? Goff's INT was a well-thrown ball that bounced off Gurley's hands, whereas Wolford's INT was a bad decision thrown straight to the LB. That's not even, dude.



They didn't play comparable games. That's the issue. You're elevating Wolford's game and demeaning Goff's. The fact that both started slow couldn't be more irrelevant when the outcomes were so different. Goff was playing in a much more difficult situation, played better, and put a lot more points on the board. Yes, outcomes do matter. Adversity is part of the game. Sometimes, a player drops a pass. Sometimes, the drop costs you a TD. Sometimes, the drop results in an INT. That's football. It's worth pointing out, but it doesn't change the facts.

Wolford's game against Arizona is more comparable to Goff's Week 16 performance against Seattle than it is Goff's NFCCG performance against New Orleans.

Doesn't matter that you don't believe it, it's true.

It was Wolford's first career pass in a game we needed for the playoffs. Goff had just played at New Orleans earlier that season. Yes it was a crazy atmosphere, but factoring in their experience that INT is a non issue considering how well he played the rest of the game.

Outcomes only seem to matter when it suits people I guess - you're not giving Wolford credit for a TD that Everett dropped but you are excusing Goff's INT because Gurley dropped it.

You keep saying Goff put more points on the board ignoring that Wolford played QB well enough to produce the same output as Goff.

That's fine - I remember what you thought of Goff pre-draft, so I think you're a little biased. You seem to think I am a Goff "hater" but in reality, I treat him like I do every other under-performing Rams player.

Wolford had an outstanding debut - unprecedented in NFL history. There is no reason to down him to make Goff look better.

This whole thing started with me saying I would give Goff credit for that type of game, and my proof was the NFCCG against the Saints. The irony behind this is that you said people would be crapping on Goff for a similar game, and I pointed to a game that I believe is similar - all of this is just our opinions. You're arguing that I would have an opinion about something and when I explain why I wouldn't, you're arguing against it. It's all my opinion. And when I explain why I think that - similar stats and if no dropped TD passes or fumbles on the goal line in either game the points would have been the same - your response is that the games aren't similar because Goff's skill players executed better and that's somehow a credit to Goff and a knock on Wolford, which is the height of hypocrisy because if the tables were turned you'd be saying Goff had a good game and Akers and Everett cost the team points.

 

[JRobinson]

So you laud his mobility while ignoring the concerns I raised about the huge hits he took in the cardinals game or that it only took a few plays for him to be KO’d against Seattle? It’s great that he’s mobile it’s not great he consistently gets crushed. That’s reassuring to you? You like that he took shots down field? Cool. He’s completing 56% of his passes. Goffs lame duck passes are completed at 67% this year so the fact that they are less visually appealing to you is of little concern to me. You like that he fights tooth and nail? He nearly paralyzed himself. Responded to adversity? Remember you were to be stating why Wolford>Goff right? Is playing an away playoff game 12 days after surgery on your throwing hand and getting the W not adverse enough ? Certainly it’s at least as good as playing against a team who also didn’t have their starting qb while the defense literally scores 9 points no? Let’s call it a tie.


Well one ...no ...you don’t give Goff tons of credit. The point here however was Goff just did the same thing Wolford did against more adverse conditions against a better team....with an actual established NFL track record so why the hell is Wolford magically better? The fact that you think it is more likely that undrafted free agent John Wolford succeeds rather than a healthy (remember you’re arguing Wolford>Goff regardless of health) 2 time pro bowler snapping out of their funk shows a lot. I almost feel like I’m being trolled like this can’t actually be your opinion unless you’re just so blinded by dislike for Goff that you see only his shortcoming and only notice Wolfords strengths. Hell the one game he played in his entire career without getting sent home in an ambulance was eerily similar to the “shitty” game Goff had in Seattle when he broke his thumb.
And save it, I realize Goff should be more polished because he’s played more but that’s the entire point of this discussion....Goff is better... Goff is more polished ....Goff is more talented. How or why are irrelevant at this point.


Yes Goff has struggled. Are you under the impression others don’t realize that? But you know what he has also done( that Wolford hasn’t by the way) proven he can succeed in the NFL. Goff has been below average this season. Cool. Do you know what I’d bet my life on the statistics supporting ? a below average NFL starter is better than an undrafted FA almost every single time. Save me the Kurt Warner’s of the world we all know it has happened in the past just insanely unlikely. Again the fact that you would chose to bet on an undrafted FA who played lackluster in one game and was knocked (literally) out of his second over someone we know can succeed is coming off as an agenda. Especially when Goff just gutted out an extremely impressive victory 12 days after surgery in his throwing hand. Personally, I’ll bet on the bounce back of Jared Goff before I’d bet on Wolford being anything memorable.

No worries. I’ll take Wolford... even after one performance.

 

[NJRamsFan]

No worries. I’ll take Wolford... even after one performance.

I have a feeling you made up your mind even before that one performance

 

[FrantikRam]

And just to set the record straight: if Goff's thumb is okay, I start him, no questions. I think he has some fire after being out a game and I liked how he performed last week.

I just think Wolford played a great game against the Cardinals.

 

[IowaRam]

If Wolford starts and the Rams fall behind 21-3 , do you take Wolford out and stick Goff back in ?

 

[Memphis Ram]

I think everyone wants the 2018 Goff back running our offense. It's the best case scenario for the Rams too, seeing as how they invested in him. If he doesn't rebound we're in deep shit and will require a McVay QB miracle to overcome it. So I am with you there man.

I just think it's important to remember that a massive advantage to a guy like McVay is his ability to gameplan can mask a lot of weaknesses in his QB. He can win with a whole lot less talent at QB than most other offensive coaches IMO. We are now in a situation where we are going to be relying on him to do just that.

My concern is whether or not having the 2018 Goff coming back is actually possible. No one wants to hear it, but a lot of things went right back then including the Rams running an offense that many teams weren't prepared or capable of stopping. McVay was in this guy's ear with all types of information pre-snap of what to do and look for. But, the better defenses have adjusted and are far more prepared for McVay's offense so it's not going to be as easy to get back to where the offense was in 2018, IMO.

 

[jrry32]

It was Wolford's first career pass in a game we needed for the playoffs. Goff had just played at New Orleans earlier that season. Yes it was a crazy atmosphere, but factoring in their experience that INT is a non issue considering how well he played the rest of the game.

Dude, Gurley having a pass clang off his hands for an INT is not equal to the QB throwing the ball straight to a LB. You called the plays even. I have no issue forgiving Wolford's INT under the circumstances, but it is bullshit to say that the two plays are "even." They're not. You can't credit Wolford for Everett's dropped TD and then claim that an INT caused by Gurley dropping a pass is even with Wolford throwing it straight to the LB. It's just intellectually dishonest.

Outcomes only seem to matter when it suits people I guess - you're not giving Wolford credit for a TD that Everett dropped but you are excusing Goff's INT because Gurley dropped it.

Except I haven't done that. The INT goes on Goff's stats. He overcame it to lead us to 26 points and have a statistically superior game under tougher circumstances. You're the person trying to credit Wolford for the Everett drop and ding Goff for Gurley causing an INT. Don't project that hypocrisy onto me.

You keep saying Goff put more points on the board ignoring that Wolford played QB well enough to produce the same output as Goff.

Because he didn't.

That's fine - I remember what you thought of Goff pre-draft, so I think you're a little biased. You seem to think I am a Goff "hater" but in reality, I treat him like I do every other under-performing Rams player.

If that were true, you wouldn't be here having this conversation. You don't treat Goff like you treat Wolford.

Wolford had an outstanding debut - unprecedented in NFL history. There is no reason to down him to make Goff look better.

Except he didn't have an outstanding debut. That's the issue. But again, I didn't start "downing" him until other people started using his game to attack Goff. And I don't need to down him to make Goff look better. You're the guy delivering posts full of excuses to try and justify your claim that Wolford was every bit as good against Arizona as Goff was against NO in the NFCCG. You're grasping at straws, bud. Was Wolford a serviceable starting QB after the bad start? Yes. But outstanding is an overstatement.

This whole thing started with me saying I would give Goff credit for that type of game, and my proof was the NFCCG against the Saints. The irony behind this is that you said people would be crapping on Goff for a similar game, and I pointed to a game that I believe is similar - all of this is just our opinions.

Because the games aren't similar. You picked a game where Goff was far superior to try and prove that you would give Goff credit for a "similar" game. That's actually a strong refutation of your argument.

And when I explain why I think that - similar stats and if no dropped TD passes or fumbles on the goal line in either game the points would have been the same - your response is that the games aren't similar because Goff's skill players executed better and that's somehow a credit to Goff and a knock on Wolford, which is the height of hypocrisy because if the tables were turned you'd be saying Goff had a good game and Akers and Everett cost the team points.

If it were Goff, I absolutely would have pointed out the things you did and said he played a better game than his stats showed (of course, nobody would be excusing the interception). I wouldn't be saying Goff had a good game, but I would add context. I have no issue with you adding context. I do have an issue with you claiming Wolford played just as well as Goff did in a game where Goff was quite clearly better. Akers and Everett did cost the team points. My point is that shit like that happens. It's the QB's job to bounce back and find a way to put points on the scoreboard.

 

[NJRamsFan]

My concern is whether or not having the 2018 Goff coming back is actually possible. No one wants to hear it, but a lot of things went right back then including the Rams running an offense that many teams weren't prepared or capable of stopping. McVay was in this guy's ear with all types of information pre-snap of what to do and look for. But, the better defenses have adjusted and are far more prepared for McVay's offense so it's not going to be as easy to get back to where the offense was in 2018, IMO.

So first off ...you’re right. We had an outstanding O line and the best RB in the league at that point so without those ingredients why should we expect to have the same offense production with bad pass blocking and a super inconsistent run game (tho I still have hope cam is THAT dude). However I can’t agree with the way you stated Goffs impact. I can’t believe that literally none of it was because of Goff and he was simply the beneficiary of everyone else. Did we offer him a great environment to succeed in ? Of course. But he still had to execute ....and he did at a very high level. I believe (just my opinion) most of what’s wrong with Goff is mental but I do believe he pulls through and returns to an above average qb.

 

[NJRamsFan]

Dude, Gurley having a pass clang off his hands for an INT is not equal to the QB throwing the ball straight to a LB. You called the plays even. I have no issue forgiving Wolford's INT under the circumstances, but it is bullshit to say that the two plays are "even." They're not. You can't credit Wolford for Everett's dropped TD and then claim that an INT caused by Gurley dropping a pass is even with Wolford throwing it straight to the LB. It's just intellectually dishonest.



Except I haven't done that. The INT goes on Goff's stats. He overcame it to lead us to 26 points and have a statistically superior game under tougher circumstances. You're the person trying to credit Wolford for the Everett drop and ding Goff for Gurley causing an INT. Don't project that hypocrisy onto me.



Because he didn't.



If that were true, you wouldn't be here having this conversation. You don't treat Goff like you treat Wolford.



Except he didn't have an outstanding debut. That's the issue. But again, I didn't start "downing" him until other people started using his game to attack Goff. And I don't need to down him to make Goff look better. You're the guy delivering posts full of excuses to try and justify your claim that Wolford was every bit as good against Arizona as Goff was against NO in the NFCCG. You're grasping at straws, bud. Was Wolford a serviceable starting QB after the bad start? Yes. But outstanding is an overstatement.



Because the games aren't similar. You picked a game where Goff was far superior to try and prove that you would give Goff credit for a "similar" game. That's actually a strong refutation of your argument.



If it were Goff, I absolutely would have pointed out the things you did and said he played a better game than his stats showed (of course, nobody would be excusing the interception). I wouldn't be saying Goff had a good game, but I would add context. I have no issue with you adding context. I do have an issue with you claiming Wolford played just as well as Goff did in a game where Goff was quite clearly better. Akers and Everett did cost the team points. My point is that shit like that happens. It's the QB's job to bounce back and find a way to put points on the scoreboard.

Idk who this post is to as I seem to have them blocked but seeing as they’re comparing Wolfords debut to Goffs nfccg LOL i made the right choice

 

[Merlin]

My concern is whether or not having the 2018 Goff coming back is actually possible. No one wants to hear it, but a lot of things went right back then including the Rams running an offense that many teams weren't prepared or capable of stopping. McVay was in this guy's ear with all types of information pre-snap of what to do and look for. But, the better defenses have adjusted and are far more prepared for McVay's offense so it's not going to be as easy to get back to where the offense was in 2018, IMO.

That is a fair concern but it's a not-now concern for me. I don't care about next year right now. And I don't care about Goff or Wolford's feelings either.

What I care about right now is beating Green Bay. And by extension of that this is a loaded topic for us for this game. Are we better off with Goff's experience behind center? Or the scrappy system QB we have at backup. Both sides have valid arguments.

IMO people need to get past their QB love issues. It's a fuckin weird thing fans do. You could have Hekk at QB for us and if we win I'm good with it. We could sign Bradford and if he wins us the Super Bowl I'd root for him. I don't give a fuck who it is. Just get us that win in Green Bay.

 

[jrry32]

That is a fair concern but it's a not-now concern for me. I don't care about next year right now. And I don't care about Goff or Wolford's feelings either.

What I care about right now is beating Green Bay. And by extension of that this is a loaded topic for us for this game. Are we better off with Goff's experience behind center? Or the scrappy system QB we have at backup. Both sides have valid arguments.

IMO people need to get past their QB love issues. It's a fuckin weird thing fans do. You could have Hekk at QB for us and if we win I'm good with it. We could sign Bradford and if he wins us the Super Bowl I'd root for him. I don't give a fuck who it is. Just get us that win in Green Bay.

I think even those of us arguing would agree that we fully support whatever QB trots out there. I have no doubt that @FrantikRam will fully support Goff if he's the guy (if I didn't feel that way, I wouldn't be wasting time arguing with him; I didn't block him like I did the guys who seem to root more for Goff to fail than for the Rams to win), and I'll fully support Wolford. If it is Wolford, I hope he throws for 300 yards, rushes for another 100, and scores 5 TDs. I care about winning far more than I care about who is at QB.

 

[Mojo Ram]

I don't care about next year right now. And I don't care about Goff or Wolford's feelings either.

Yesssss...

 

[Ewe83]

OOOHH So now I'm weird! What tipped you off

 

[NJRamsFan]

I think even those of us arguing would agree that we fully support whatever QB trots out there. I have no doubt that @FrantikRam will fully support Goff if he's the guy (if I didn't feel that way, I wouldn't be wasting time arguing with him; I didn't block him like I did the guys who seem to root more for Goff to fail than for the Rams to win), and I'll fully support Wolford. If it is Wolford, I hope he throws for 300 yards, rushes for another 100, and scores 5 TDs. I care about winning far more than I care about who is at QB.

+1

 

[Memphis Ram]

So first off ...you’re right. We had an outstanding O line and the best RB in the league at that point so without those ingredients why should we expect to have the same offense production with bad pass blocking and a super inconsistent run game (tho I still have hope cam is THAT dude). However I can’t agree with the way you stated Goffs impact. I can’t believe that literally none of it was because of Goff and he was simply the beneficiary of everyone else. Did we offer him a great environment to succeed in ? Of course. But he still had to execute ....and he did at a very high level. I believe (just my opinion) most of what’s wrong with Goff is mental but I do believe he pulls through and returns to an above average qb.

Here we go again. I don't believe that "literally none of it was because of Goff and he was simply the beneficiary of everyone else" either.

OMG. Again, it seems that anything said that is not in praise of Goff gets attacked with words put in the mouth of that poster.

 

[Merlin]

And just to set the record straight: if Goff's thumb is okay, I start him, no questions. I think he has some fire after being out a game

I definitely like the pissed off Goff. That snarky interview of his post-Seattle was awesome. He should say what he thinks more often.

 

[JRobinson]

I have a feeling you made up your mind even before that one performance

Oh? If you say so.

 

[oldnotdead]

Sorry but IMO its all BS. There isn't a QB in the NFL including the GOAT who didn't have an occasional season where he looked out of sync. McVay's offense isn't fooling people like it was originally. There has been a lack of execution not only by Goff but by the RBs, WRs, TEs and o-line. IMO this has more to do with the lack of a real offseason and limited practice time.

Let's wait and see what happens when the team has a full offseason and TC along with scrimmages and actual practices. Much of execution is about timing and that can only be gained by actually practicing it as a unit. Also, I'm not hearing much about all the freaking drops by receivers. It's not just Goff and those that choose to pin it on him are just plain wrong. Yes, he's a part of it but it's the entire team that is out of sync at times.

Hello, remember the first and goal at the one yard line followed immediately by two false starts? So yeah lets pin the lack of a TD on Wolford right? Yeah, I've seen how people on this board and in the media draw attention to Wolford's lack of TD's. But dropped passes, and crucial penalties didn't play a part?

I'm just simply pointing out how senseless this finger-pointing is. How Goff is shouldering blame that is not entirely of his making. As Merlin pointed out, I loved what I think I also saw in Goff's demeanor. If he builds off that gutsy game of his, we might see his return to form. In fact I think we very well might. I want him to start against the Packers. That win will propel this team right into the Lombardi with Goff finally getting the media monkey (i.e. Cameron Duhsilva) off his back.

 

[NJRamsFan]

Here we go again. I don't believe that literally none of it was because of Goff and he was simply the beneficiary of everyone else either.

OMG. Again, it seems that anything said that is not in praise of Goff gets attacked with words put in the mouth of that poster.

you literally doubted he can return to 2018 form because he was getting so much help from everyone including his coach in his headset and a gimmicky offense the NFL has now caught up to. So now if someone disagrees with you its a victim mentality LMAO ok bud.

 

[FrantikRam]

Dude, Gurley having a pass clang off his hands for an INT is not equal to the QB throwing the ball straight to a LB. You called the plays even. I have no issue forgiving Wolford's INT under the circumstances, but it is bullshit to say that the two plays are "even." They're not. You can't credit Wolford for Everett's dropped TD and then claim that an INT caused by Gurley dropping a pass is even with Wolford throwing it straight to the LB. It's just intellectually dishonest.



Except I haven't done that. The INT goes on Goff's stats. He overcame it to lead us to 26 points and have a statistically superior game under tougher circumstances. You're the person trying to credit Wolford for the Everett drop and ding Goff for Gurley causing an INT. Don't project that hypocrisy onto me.



Because he didn't.



If that were true, you wouldn't be here having this conversation. You don't treat Goff like you treat Wolford.



Except he didn't have an outstanding debut. That's the issue. But again, I didn't start "downing" him until other people started using his game to attack Goff. And I don't need to down him to make Goff look better. You're the guy delivering posts full of excuses to try and justify your claim that Wolford was every bit as good against Arizona as Goff was against NO in the NFCCG. You're grasping at straws, bud. Was Wolford a serviceable starting QB after the bad start? Yes. But outstanding is an overstatement.



Because the games aren't similar. You picked a game where Goff was far superior to try and prove that you would give Goff credit for a "similar" game. That's actually a strong refutation of your argument.



If it were Goff, I absolutely would have pointed out the things you did and said he played a better game than his stats showed (of course, nobody would be excusing the interception). I wouldn't be saying Goff had a good game, but I would add context. I have no issue with you adding context. I do have an issue with you claiming Wolford played just as well as Goff did in a game where Goff was quite clearly better. Akers and Everett did cost the team points. My point is that shit like that happens. It's the QB's job to bounce back and find a way to put points on the scoreboard.

That could open up a can of worms. If you think it's the QBs job to put up points in spite of the supporting cast, what is your assessment of Goff this season? Surely below average? The PPG for the Rams are below average.

Were just going to keep going around in circles so we'll just have to agree to disagree I guess. I'll just leave it with I'd be thrilled with Goff this year if he played every game like Wolford did after his shaky start - which I think is excusable because it was his first start. But in the interest of fairness I'll say I'd be thrilled if Goff played every other game exactly like Wolford and then the other games like Wolford did after the shaky start. THRILLED.

8 bad INTs, no fumbles and I'll bet there won't be 16 dropped TDs and 16 fumbles on the goaline