(Poll) Who would you start this weekend? The Wolford/Goff Collection Thread

[JRobinson]

At times yet he was miles better than Wolford was against the same Arizona team and I’m not sure how a ybofy can be intellectually honest and argue otherwise. Without a functioning thumb against Seattle he threw the ball as well as Wolford.

At times no doubt. But the fact that his pocket presence is below average, and that he forces throws to defenders when pressured,... doesn’t give me anymore of a reason to feel better with Goff than Wolford.

 

[Logy]

Let's see if this is lighter fluid or just murky water:

McVay knows Goff is Rams biggest impediment to winning Super Bowl — Nick | NFL | FIRST THINGS FIRST


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U66n4WukMK4

Has Nick Wright ever been right about anything? I'm going to hold off on any opinions until Walter football weighs in.

 

[NJRamsFan]

Just disagree. There is no point. Goff doesn’t give me any more confidence than Wolford does right now. Give me Wolford, even if Goff is healthy.

Why though? What has Wolford done to earn that confidence from you? Were you that impressed with his cardinals performance? I didn’t find it particularly inspiring and the numbers agree. Not to mention Wolford got almost KO’d a few times taking big hits against Arizona and in his second career start was KO’d early in the game.

Sure Wolford managed and won the game in AZ with unimpressive stats but didn’t Goff just do the same thing in Seattle? With a 12 day old surgically repaired thumb. Against a better team and not to mention actually lead TD drives?

what makes you feel Wolford is an upgrade over a healthy Goff? Thumb situation fine but you’re actually arguing Wolford is just straight up better than Goff and id like to know why

 

[JRobinson]

Let's see if this is lighter fluid or just murky water:

McVay knows Goff is Rams biggest impediment to winning Super Bowl — Nick | NFL | FIRST THINGS FIRST


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U66n4WukMK4

Yup. Exactly where I stand.

 

[kurtfaulk]

Has Nick Wright ever been right about anything? I'm going to hold off on any opinions until Walter football weighs in.

the rug man said goff was horrible against the bucs after that game. there's no way i'm clicking on a video with the rug man talking about anything.

.

 

[OldSchool]

Oh good lord, people agreeing with that clown now? I think we’re done here lol.

 

[JRobinson]

Why though? What has Wolford done to earn that confidence from you? Were you that impressed with his cardinals performance?

I liked that he was mobile to avoid pressure. I liked that when the OLine or play-call faltered, he still converted to positive gains. I liked that he took shots downfield. I liked that his ball wasn’t a duck. I liked that he fought tooth and nail to get a first down. I liked how he responded to adversity. I like his pocket presence and poise.

Sure Wolford managed and won the game in AZ with unimpressive stats but didn’t Goff just do the same thing in Seattle? With a 12 day old surgically repaired thumb. Against a better team and not to mention actually lead TD drives?

Absolutely he did. I give Goff tons of credit for grit and toughness. He’s always been a tough dude. No doubt Seattle has a stout defense. And yes, scoring an offensive touchdown was refreshing given they haven’t done it in quite a while. However, he was healthy enough to play and was passed over.

what makes you feel Wolford is an upgrade over a healthy Goff? Thumb situation fine but you’re actually arguing Wolford is just straight up better than Goff and id like to know why

This season for Goff has been below standard, meaning below average. Goff’s track record this season leading up to even now has been poor. Without placing blame on the OLine, which there is blame to be given, ... the turnovers have been the only consistent thing Goff has provided this year. His lack of pocket presence or poise has hurt his ability as a pure pocket passer. I’m not sure as to what is happening in Goff’s mind when it comes to processing, but something clearly is not right. That in itself leads to reading progressions, which Goff has regressed in this area IMO.

Why I like Wolford for the remainder of this season are listed above in my first answer.

I don’t believe that this game against GB is going to be an explosive offensive performance from either side. Our defense is going to show up and bet your bottom dollar that GB will load up the box to stop the run on early downs while bringing pressure and playing man on the 2nd and 3rd and longs. I’d rather have a healthy Wolford over a healthy Goff for these situations.

 

[Ramlock]

While I'm sure that post is satisfying to some people here, it's not close to accurate. If you don't read much here anymore, maybe you really don't know and your question was genuine. I don't know.
This week the attitudes have been way less toxic than what they had been. Thats because of playing through a broken thumb and winning a playoff game.

We could debate the definition of hate, but whatever you want to call it, it's not anywhere close to equaling a "lack of blind praise."
If its remotely accurate then it cuts both ways.


Plenty of people here don't praise Goff ever and there's no issue with that. The "lack" of praise for Goff has never caused anyone to be warned by the mods nor has it ever forced people out of the GDT week after week. That isn't caused by any lack other than a lack of respect for fellow members.
Most posters here have wildly varying opinions on him and the vast majority of us all manage to get along just fine.

Also, maybe hate isn't the right word, but there is a more toxic dislike and over the top criticism for him than any Rams player I have seen the board turn on.

Its probably 10 or fewer very consistent guys who go out of their way to shit on him at every opportunity. Then there are several more who just aren't crazy about him and don't believe in him, then there are fans who think he's not great, not terrible and needs better help. There's literally nobody here blindly praising him. I know this as I'm one of his biggest supporters on this board and even I criticize the stupid and avoidable errors and believe he needs to play better and that this is obviously his worst season.

Some people believe Goff is in a slump. Some pretend he's always struggled like this year and others call him names, make negative assumptions about his character and frankly the only reason the "toxic dislike" is even tolerable on this board right now is because he broke his thumb and then got through a game with a win.
If this board didn't have rules against it, their would be plenty of name-calling and redundant threads dedicated to ridiculing him and anyone who would defend him.

May not matter to anyone, but I went through one of the recent Vent threads.

May have been the Jets.
The whole Rams team played like shit.

First 3 pages have like 60 posts. 18 of 60 commenters only had blame for Goff.

Only Goff.

The others mentioned Goff along with McVay or the defensive let-down or Gerald Everett's dropped passes or Austin Blythe and so on.

Couldn't read any more of that negativity.

So about 30% are daily Goff critics on this site that find nothing else wrong with our team to complain about.

 

[Ellard80]

I really haven't seen enough from wolford to make a conclusion that he is a better option than Goff.

Goff has not been very consistent- probably a below average Qb by most metrics that past two seasons.

But wolford played one game and like 10 plays... he could be jesus with football or he could be a bigger turnover machine than Goff.

going by the fact that he is an undrafted free agent... the percentages aren't in his favors. But there are some cinderella stories.....

 

[Ellard80]

May not matter to anyone, but I went through one of the recent Vent threads.

May have been the Jets.
The whole Rams team played like shit.

First 3 pages have like 60 posts. 18 of 60 commenters only had blame for Goff.

Only Goff.

The others mentioned Goff along with McVay or the defensive let-down or Gerald Everett's dropped passes or Austin Blythe and so on.

Couldn't read any more of that negativity.

So about 30% are daily Goff critics on this site that find nothing else wrong with our team to complain about.

Quarterbacks typically get the blame or accolades- pretty normal. I mean Goff completed 9-19 passess in his last game and because the Rams won in most peoples eyes he was the hero.

Quarterbacks are the most important position - but they often times get too much of the blame or praise.

I mean look at kirk cousins.. the guy has averaged like a 105 qb rating the past 3 seasons.. and a lot of people think he is trash because of WL record....

 

[Deac]

From this Whit interview on The Herd, looks like Colin is assuming or has inside information, but Whit did not dispute. Looks like Wolford may start vs GB.

Sorry tried to paste, but just puts up generic YouTube link, YouTube must be going stupid in restrictions. Its on Herd today interview with Whit.

 

[Classic Rams]

I've been drawing on a lot of past similarities lately, and at first I thought of the Harris-Jaworski issue in the 1975 playoffs for this situation.

But a closer comparison would be Simms-Hostetler back in 1990. The Hoss brought in that running dynamic after Simms got hurt and they won a Super Bowl. Before he and his son became shitty analysts that pissed people off, Simms was actually a good QB and set a SB record for completion % while beating Denver in the 1987 Super Bowl. Injury happens a few years later, Hoss brings in that extra dimension and the rest is history. After that Hoss went on to mediocrity and Simms was at the end of his career but they pulled it off before going down that path. Would love to pull it off in similar fashion. I'm open to either Goff or Wolf and can't really decide who I really want. I have a feeling though that Goff's rollout performance (several times and play went for naught) and lack of decisions on running vs Seattle in week 15 play a part in McVay's thoughts to perhaps start Wolf though, other than the thumb.

 

[UKram]

and that’s ok. Goff hit a wide open Woods due to a busted coverage.... Wolford couldn’t have done the same thing?

Again, if you and others are ok with placing a QB who has turned the ball over more than anyone over the past two seasons, a questionable interior OLine in pass pro, and a guy who can’t move in the pocket at all... or even feel the pocket to any degree.... then fine. That’s not even mentioning the busted up thumb.
I, would rather have Wolford the remainder of this season.

Goff haters .. hypocrisy to the last ... wolford had dropped passes and fumbled balls

Goffs TD was busted coverage and that’s the only reason it happened


You can’t make excuses and play what’s ifs with one Qb and then ignore the others for another

 

[Ellard80]

I've been drawing on a lot of past similarities lately, and at first I thought of the Harris-Jaworski issue in the 1975 playoffs for this situation.

But a closer comparison would be Simms-Hostetler back in 1990. The Hoss brought in that running dynamic after Simms got hurt and they won a Super Bowl. Before he and his son became shitty analysts that pissed people off, Simms was actually a good QB and set a SB record for completion % while beating Denver in the 1987 Super Bowl. Injury happens a few years later, Hoss brings in that extra dimension and the rest is history. After that Hoss went on to mediocrity and Simms was at the end of his career but they pulled it off before going down that path. Would love to pull it off in similar fashion. I'm open to either Goff or Wolf and can't really decide who I really want. I have a feeling though that Goff's rollout performance (several times and play went for naught) and lack of decisions on running vs Seattle in week 15 play a part in McVay's thoughts to perhaps start Wolf though, other than the thumb.

that is an interesting comparison

 

[Ramlock]

Before he and his son became shitty analysts that pissed people off,

Funniest non-Wolfie statement in this thread...bravo, sir.

 

[FrantikRam]

There wasn't a thing I said that was factually incorrect. Goff would have gotten shat on if he had a passer rating in the 60's and led us to only 9 offensive points against Arizona. And you'd have been one of the people shitting on him for it. Trying to argue that Wolford's performance was on par with Goff's comeback and win against the Saints in the NFC Championship Game is utterly ridiculous.



Wolford did not completely tear it up after that. He rebounded from a horrible start to play well. But he failed to lead the Rams to a single TD and led the offense to only 9 points. Goff led the offense to 26 points. Goff posted significantly better passing numbers. Goff did that on the road where the players could barely communicate. Go sell this nonsense elsewhere. I'm really tired of Goff haters understating the guy's accomplishments.



Do you remember Goff's interception against New Orleans? I expect you don't because you're trying to make this argument. His interception bounced right off Gurley's hands and into Demario Davis's. And no, it wasn't an errant pass. The ball was right on Gurley's chest. Every QB faces adversity. Every QB faces turnovers that aren't his fault. Every QB has weapons who drop passes now and then. Wolford's performance against Arizona wasn't in the same league as Goff's against New Orleans. Spare me.



No, he didn't. It was a significantly less effective performance.

I would not have bashed Goff for Wolford's Arizona performance. Wolford made one bad throw, which I'm excusing because it was his first career pass attempt. After his 1-6 start he was 21-32, averaged 7 YPA, 231 yards and added 56 yards rushing.
Wolford effectively led two TD drives - it's not his fault and it would not be Goff's fault that Akers fumbled and Everett dropped a perfect pass - add that up and to me that's a QB playing really well.

Conversely, if Gurley fumbled and Higbee dropped that TD pass against the Saints, and we lost, I'd still have said Goff played well.

And yes I did know that the Goff INT bounced off Gurleys hands - I'm willing to call that even because it was Wolford's first career passing attempt.

I'm really tired of people using outcomes to assign credit or blame to a QB. It's not really relevant how many points the team scored if the QB played well enough to have more or less points. In the two games I'm comparing, both guys started slow, both led the Rams to first and goal twice, they had similar numbers, and the Rams won. It's asinine to use Goff's TD pass as a reason for him playing better when:

Everett dropped a perfect pass

We have all at some point defended Goff for the amount of rushing TDs we score

I'll grant you the INT difference but again that didn't bother me considering the stakes and that it was his first pass.

My whole point was that they've played comparable games that Goff has been praised for and I stand by that.

 

[NJRamsFan]

I liked that he was mobile to avoid pressure. I liked that when the OLine or play-call faltered, he still converted to positive gains. I liked that he took shots downfield. I liked that his ball wasn’t a duck. I liked that he fought tooth and nail to get a first down. I liked how he responded to adversity. I like his pocket presence and poise.

So you laud his mobility while ignoring the concerns I raised about the huge hits he took in the cardinals game or that it only took a few plays for him to be KO’d against Seattle? It’s great that he’s mobile it’s not great he consistently gets crushed. That’s reassuring to you? You like that he took shots down field? Cool. He’s completing 56% of his passes. Goffs lame duck passes are completed at 67% this year so the fact that they are less visually appealing to you is of little concern to me. You like that he fights tooth and nail? He nearly paralyzed himself. Responded to adversity? Remember you were to be stating why Wolford>Goff right? Is playing an away playoff game 12 days after surgery on your throwing hand and getting the W not adverse enough ? Certainly it’s at least as good as playing against a team who also didn’t have their starting qb while the defense literally scores 9 points no? Let’s call it a tie.

Absolutely he did. I give Goff tons of credit for grit and toughness. He’s always been a tough dude. No doubt Seattle has a stout defense. And yes, scoring an offensive touchdown was refreshing given they haven’t done it in quite a while. However, he was healthy enough to play and was passed over.

Well one ...no ...you don’t give Goff tons of credit. The point here however was Goff just did the same thing Wolford did against more adverse conditions against a better team....with an actual established NFL track record so why the hell is Wolford magically better? The fact that you think it is more likely that undrafted free agent John Wolford succeeds rather than a healthy (remember you’re arguing Wolford>Goff regardless of health) 2 time pro bowler snapping out of their funk shows a lot. I almost feel like I’m being trolled like this can’t actually be your opinion unless you’re just so blinded by dislike for Goff that you see only his shortcoming and only notice Wolfords strengths. Hell the one game he played in his entire career without getting sent home in an ambulance was eerily similar to the “shitty” game Goff had in Seattle when he broke his thumb.
And save it, I realize Goff should be more polished because he’s played more but that’s the entire point of this discussion....Goff is better... Goff is more polished ....Goff is more talented. How or why are irrelevant at this point.

This season for Goff has been below standard, meaning below average. Goff’s track record this season leading up to even now has been poor. Without placing blame on the OLine, which there is blame to be given, ... the turnovers have been the only consistent thing Goff has provided this year. His lack of pocket presence or poise has hurt his ability as a pure pocket passer. I’m not sure as to what is happening in Goff’s mind when it comes to processing, but something clearly is not right. That in itself leads to reading progressions, which Goff has regressed in this area IMO.

Yes Goff has struggled. Are you under the impression others don’t realize that? But you know what he has also done( that Wolford hasn’t by the way) proven he can succeed in the NFL. Goff has been below average this season. Cool. Do you know what I’d bet my life on the statistics supporting ? a below average NFL starter is better than an undrafted FA almost every single time. Save me the Kurt Warner’s of the world we all know it has happened in the past just insanely unlikely. Again the fact that you would chose to bet on an undrafted FA who played lackluster in one game and was knocked (literally) out of his second over someone we know can succeed is coming off as an agenda. Especially when Goff just gutted out an extremely impressive victory 12 days after surgery in his throwing hand. Personally, I’ll bet on the bounce back of Jared Goff before I’d bet on Wolford being anything memorable.

 

[jrry32]

I would not have bashed Goff for Wolford's Arizona performance. Wolford made one bad throw, which I'm excusing because it was his first career pass attempt. After his 1-6 start he was 21-32, averaged 7 YPA, 231 yards and added 56 yards rushing.
Wolford effectively led two TD drives - it's not his fault and it would not be Goff's fault that Akers fumbled and Everett dropped a perfect pass - add that up and to me that's a QB playing really well.

Conversely, if Gurley fumbled and Higbee dropped that TD pass against the Saints, and we lost, I'd still have said Goff played well.

Let's just say I don't believe that.

And yes I did know that the Goff INT bounced off Gurleys hands - I'm willing to call that even because it was Wolford's first career passing attempt.

How is that even? Goff's INT was a well-thrown ball that bounced off Gurley's hands, whereas Wolford's INT was a bad decision thrown straight to the LB. That's not even, dude.

I'm really tired of people using outcomes to assign credit or blame to a QB. It's not really relevant how many points the team scored if the QB played well enough to have more or less points. In the two games I'm comparing, both guys started slow, both led the Rams to first and goal twice, they had similar numbers, and the Rams won. It's asinine to use Goff's TD pass as a reason for him playing better when:

Everett dropped a perfect pass

We have all at some point defended Goff for the amount of rushing TDs we score

I'll grant you the INT difference but again that didn't bother me considering the stakes and that it was his first pass.

My whole point was that they've played comparable games that Goff has been praised for and I stand by that.

They didn't play comparable games. That's the issue. You're elevating Wolford's game and demeaning Goff's. The fact that both started slow couldn't be more irrelevant when the outcomes were so different. Goff was playing in a much more difficult situation, played better, and put a lot more points on the board. Yes, outcomes do matter. Adversity is part of the game. Sometimes, a player drops a pass. Sometimes, the drop costs you a TD. Sometimes, the drop results in an INT. That's football. It's worth pointing out, but it doesn't change the facts.

Wolford's game against Arizona is more comparable to Goff's Week 16 performance against Seattle than it is Goff's NFCCG performance against New Orleans.

 

[jrry32]

and that’s ok. Goff hit a wide open Woods due to a busted coverage.... Wolford couldn’t have done the same thing?

There are two points worth making here. First, Goff called the audible at the LOS that put us in that specific play that caused the coverage bust based on what he'd seen of the Seattle defense. Second, it was Goff's play-action fake that helped cause the bust (along with Woods pretending he was going to block). Here's the play. Watch Goff call the audible and get Woods lined up:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeF95i80IbY

Could Wolford have done the same thing? I don't know. The benefit of having a guy who has as much experience as Goff does is his ability to recognize things like that and run the offense at the LOS. Wolford could make that throw, yes. But would Wolford have changed the play like Goff did into that PA pass there? I don't know. People really underrate Jared's football IQ and ability to run this offense at the LOS.

 

[Merlin]

I think you people are fucking crazy.

I love and support Goff, I just have the perspective that he's been a bottom third QB this year. The reasons for his struggles are not all on him, however right now in the playoffs McVay has to ensure he's got the best mix of guys on the field and that best mix might not include Jared Goff.

Whether you can handle that as a fan, well, that's up to you.

Where some posters are right now, judging from what I am reading, is that Wolford isn't worthy of putting Goff on the bench. But I think those of you who hold that opinion are wrong. And I think Wolford if he plays will probably prove you wrong.

How could I be so confident of this? McVay. He knows this system can be inclusive of weak armed QBs. He has seen Wolford making quick decisions and reading fast in practice all season long. We have an emerging run game to complement a system QB and the OL is getting healthy at the right time.

McVay has done this before with Cousins who is another shitty armed QB. So for me I'm going to treat this like I would ANY OTHER POSITION and root for the guy who gets the nod. If it's Goff, I am confident he'll rebound in his play. If it's Wolford, I am confident he'll run the gameplan efficiently. It's really that simple dudes. IMO.