Officials/Refs (Any Accountability?)

[Mojo Ram]

But that would take the same scope of cover-up that fixing wins and losses would, and something THAT huge couldn't be hidden.

Naw, fixing wins and losses is one thing. Throwing subjective flags to make games more competitive is another. It's a business practice to improve the product on the field. Is there a massive cover up that holding can be called on every play but it isn't? No of course not.

If you truly believe that NFL games are being called straight up then you're not watching enough or paying attention.

 

[bubbaramfan]

Les, you forget the trend that whitsle blowers are prosecuted, not listened to. and in this day and age, they aren't paid attention to anyway.

I think mojo has a good angle. May not be every game messed with but they are influencing some games.

 

[Prime Time]

If refs were acting on orders from the owners on calling penalties or not calling penalties in order to affect the games, you would think by now someone would have come forward and spilled the beans. Writing a book like that would make an individual millions, not to mention send the NFL into a financial tailspin.

It's perfectly understandable why some would think that there's a conspiracy to promote certain players and certain teams at the expense of others, but a conspiracy that vast would have been unmasked by now.

Referees are not machines who never make errors. They are human beings who screw up from time to time. That said I do believe they are at times biased for or against certain teams and individual players and call penalties on the ones they don't like and don't call them on the ones they do like. That type of bias is hardwired into our human nature.

I highly doubt there wasn't bias involved in the many calls made against the Rams D while Gregg Williams was in charge of the defense. That's the main reason I was glad to see him move on to the Browns. Their "golden boys" Tom Brady and Peyton Manning certainly seem to get the calls made in their favor most of the time.

League-wide Conspiracy? No
Individual incompetence and bias? Yes

 

[RAMblin Man]

If refs were acting on orders from the owners on calling penalties or not calling penalties in order to affect the games, you would think by now someone would have come forward and spilled the beans. Writing a book like that would make an individual millions, not to mention send the NFL into a financial tailspin.

It's perfectly understandable why some would think that there's a conspiracy to promote certain players and certain teams at the expense of others, but a conspiracy that vast would have been unmasked by now.

Referees are not machines who never make errors. They are human beings who screw up from time to time. That said I do believe they are at times biased for or against certain teams and individual players and call penalties on the ones they don't like and don't call them on the ones they do like. That type of bias is hardwired into our human nature.

I highly doubt there wasn't bias involved in the many calls made against the Rams D while Gregg Williams was in charge of the defense. That's the main reason I was glad to see him move on to the Browns. Their "golden boys" Tom Brady and Peyton Manning certainly seem to get the calls made in their favor most of the time.

League-wide Conspiracy? No
Individual incompetence and bias? Yes

Employees don't need a memo spelling out the unwritten rules. They are scored every game. Instant feedback on how they are conforming to what the NFL wants. Brady gets sacked a little hard? It shows up on that week's teaching reel. Home team makes a valiente comeback, good ref score. Nothing in writing anywhere. Nobody asked to join a conspiracy.

 

[LesBaker]

We already have the tons of no calls on holds

I have been complaining about that for years, and it's because of where the ref is in the backfield. They need two people back tghere.

And by the way Rams players also take advantage of this problem.

PI on us with uncatchable ball (he never would've got his feet down)

You make some nice points but IMO two things here........it was for sure a catchable ball. And anytime a DB grabs a WR's arm and holds in down in the plain sight of a ref it's getting flagged.

Naw, fixing wins and losses is one thing. Throwing subjective flags to make games more competitive is another. It's a business practice to improve the product on the field. Is there a massive cover up that holding can be called on every play but it isn't? No of course not.

If you truly believe that NFL games are being called straight up then you're not watching enough or paying attention.

But it WOULD take a massive cover up to keep either thing under wraps, it just would. Massaging games or outright fixing involves the same type of cover.

Les, you forget the trend that whitsle blowers are prosecuted, not listened to. and in this day and age, they aren't paid attention to anyway.

I think mojo has a good angle. May not be every game messed with but they are influencing some games.

Again even if it was ONE game per weekend it would take a massive conspiracy and cover up. And as @Prime Time mentioned the one guy who did the tell all would make more millions in a matter of a month than he would in 5 lifetimes of being a ref.

And at least several others would then jump on that bandwagon to write their own book about what they did.

And if that were remotely true why are Thursday Night games for shit when the NFL is dying to have that be as big as MNF. Why aren't they bending those games?

It's perfectly understandable why some would think that there's a conspiracy to promote certain players and certain teams at the expense of others, but a conspiracy that vast would have been unmasked by now.

10 times over!!!

League-wide Conspiracy? No
Individual incompetence and bias? Yes

I lean heavily towards incompetence way more than bias but I do acknowledge that has to exist.

I also think they need a few more sets of eyes on the field for sure.

Nobody asked to join a conspiracy.

What you just posted is a description of a conspiracy though LOL.

 

[LARAMSinFeb.]

So i went back to prove a point to my brother that the refs screwed us on the last drive with the face mask called call on Christian .... but the replay showed Donald hitting Keenum on the helmet ...

And by the power of game pass and an iPhone record screen move

I present

View: https://youtu.be/Lc8LXQV5Ss4


The link should work but I’m not tech savvy enough to get it on here properly


I still think it’s a bs call

So was the facemask call against AD or Christian? Because I didn't see Christian's hands anywhere near the receiver's facemask.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

But that would take the same scope of cover-up that fixing wins and losses would, and something THAT huge couldn't be hidden.

The lone ref in the NBA got outed and certainly 200 plus people being involved in what you suggest would be as well.

All it would take is ONE unhappy ref, that got demoted or fired, which DOES happen and has on a regular basis for years now, to blow the top off of this whole thing. Or just ONE honest man in the entire union.

I'm ALL for discussing how poorly the refs perform, we cold fill a message board with just that topic, but I can't find a single shred of even circumstantial anything that there is this type of conspiracy. It would have been uncovered.

Refs fixing basketball games goes back to the 60’s. And it didn’t come out until a few years ago? That’s over 30 years of points shaving.


And has there ever been a ref fired? I don’t recall that happening. Maybe in exchange for signing a contract that guarantees that they won’t speak about making games close with fraudulent calls is why their jobs are safe. It would explain why some of the lousy refs who were employed for so many years, despite seeming to be incompetent.

 

[LesBaker]

The 2017 season finished with 14 OT games.

I did some looking around and found this article.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...es-in-an-nfl-season-2018-approaching-records/


If you feel like we're seeing more and more ties and overtimes in the NFL during the 2018 season, well, you're right. We are. In fact, if you were to ask, "What is the record for most ties in an NFL season?" or, "What's the record for most overtime games in an NFL season?" by the time January rolls around, you might be able to say both happened in 2018.

Week 6 set a record for overtime purposes, with the Bears-Dolphins game -- an overtime affair ended when Jason Sanders hit the second-longest game-winning overtime kick by a rookie (47 yards) in NFL history -- making it a clean sweep for the NFL so far in terms of at least one overtime game per week.

So far in 2018, at least one game has gone to overtime in each of the first six weeks, which is the first time that's happened in NFL history. All told there have been nine games that have gone to overtime through six weeks of the season.

Record for overtime games in a single season
The current record for most overtime games in one season is 25, which happened way back in 2002. There were also 23 in a season in 2003 for those that are curious. The 25 in 2002 is an average of 1.47 ties per week. We are currently on a 1.5 ties per week pace, and if it kept up the NFL would end up with 25.5 total overtime games for the season. Round up and it's the record, down and it still ties the record.

This may not be related to anything other than pure happenstance -- we only had 14 overtime games in the entire 2017 season. Or maybe it's just theBrowns and Texans being weird at football: the two teams have combined for five of the nine overtime games this year.


Record for ties in a single season
As far as ties go, this season should set the record for most ties in one NFL season. Prior to this year, we had only ever seen multiple ties in three different seasons and never more than two ties in a single season. The 2016 season, 1997 season and 1986 season all featured a pair of ties, with the 2016 season hitting the number before November thanks to the Bengals andRedskins ending their trip to London in a tie.

This year we, ahem, tied the record for most ties before October. The Browns and Steelers tied in 21-21 in Week 1 and in Week 2 the Vikings and Packerstied 29-29.

Part of the reason for increased ties is a shorter overtime period. We're already talking about conservative coaches here, and if you give them less time to solve the outcome of the game, it's more likely to result in a tie. Coaches don't like to lose, and a tie is better than a loss.

We should have already gotten three ties this season, except Colts coach Frank Reich decided to go for broke against the Texans in Week 5, when he eschewed punting on a fourth down in overtime and tried to pick up a fourth-and-2 near midfield. The result was Houston kicking a game-winning field goal, but you better believe if Houston got the ball back Bill O'Brien was going to burn off the clock and walk out of town with a half-win.


There's a long way home, but if our current overtime pace keeps up, we will almost certainly see another tie -- the modern NFL doesn't necessarily encourage overtime periods with the rules, but the overtime rules most certainly encourage ties. Don't be surprised if the record for most ties in a season and most overtimes in a season are both broken this year.

 

[LesBaker]

So was the facemask call against AD or Christian? Because I didn't see Christian's hands anywhere near the receiver's facemask.

I think they called the wrong player, AD did hit Keenum's facemask Christian didn't touch a facemask. So they must have been confused big shock there.

Refs fixing basketball games goes back to the 60’s. And it didn’t come out until a few years ago? That’s over 30 years of points shaving.

You don't have any evidence other than to say it's a great conspiracy theory LOL.

And has there ever been a ref fired? I don’t recall that happening. Maybe in exchange for signing a contract that guarantees that they won’t speak about making games close with fraudulent calls is why their jobs are safe. It would explain why some of the lousy refs who were employed for so many years, despite seeming to be incompetent.

Multiple times and multiple refs.

What you are saying/suggesting is that everyone in the world that has ever been involved in reffing pro sports in the USA is dishonest and part of a massive cover up and conspiracy. There is literally nothing that suggests this other than fan bias about refs picking on their team. And it's almost always after a loss or about one or two stupid/complete whiffs on the part of the refs.

I found these two articles in seconds.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/04/08/nfl-has-fired-some-of-its-worst-officials/

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/04/08/nfl-has-fired-some-of-its-worst-officials/

 

[RAMblin Man]

So was the facemask call against AD or Christian? Because I didn't see Christian's hands anywhere near the receiver's facemask.

The facemask was when the receiver made his cut. Well before the catch. It's there on the broadcast but happened before the replay footage starts.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

@LesBaker

Quoting this for clarity, “ Since buying the Patriots in 1994, Kraft has muscled his way into becoming the most influential owner in the NFL. He was the chairman of the NFL’s financial committee, and sat on the league’s audit, investment, broadcasting, business ventures, and expansion committees, as well as the special committee on league economics, and the Los Angeles Stadium working group. What’s more, Kraft was very involved in securing the NFL’s prized contracts with major television networks which gives the NFL the bulk of its money every season. Kraft also brokered a deal in 2001 with his friend Paul Fireman valued at 250 million dollars for Fireman’s company Reebok to provide uniforms for every team in the NFL for ten years. Kraft was also instrumental in bringing the Texans to Houston as an expansion team, basically telling Texans owner Bob McNair that his investment in the NFL wouldn’t just give him the team, but would guarantee Houston the rights to the Super Bowl in 2004.

It’s known that Kraft , thanks to his role on the league’s finance committee, authorized a league program that allowed teams in the NFLs six largest media markets $150 million each in low-interest loans to build new stadiums.”


It goes on and on and points out his foreign travels and role in extending NFL football to foreign countries. He did all of that in only 15 years of ownership. This is from the book ‘The Fix Is In’. It points out games being fixed in all major sports and makes some very good points.

 

[Jacobarch]

After re-watching the Denver game it was painfully obvious the refs were trying to keep Denver in the game. It's almost like they weren't even watching the game and just making blatantly bad calls. I don't know how to explain it actually, I'm at a loss.

The Rams played great Defense all day and it's sad to see the NFL / Refs make calls like this just for assumed Ratings. These things have to be put in check by the league or it's going to turn off most of the NFL true fans which could and will ruin this great game. Time to get someone in charge that's actually played the game. No more Lawyers.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I think they called the wrong player, AD did hit Keenum's facemask Christian didn't touch a facemask. So they must have been confused big shock there.



You don't have any evidence other than to say it's a great conspiracy theory LOL.



Multiple times and multiple refs.

What you are saying/suggesting is that everyone in the world that has ever been involved in reffing pro sports in the USA is dishonest and part of a massive cover up and conspiracy. There is literally nothing that suggests this other than fan bias about refs picking on their team. And it's almost always after a loss or about one or two stupid/complete whiffs on the part of the refs.

I found these two articles in seconds.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/04/08/nfl-has-fired-some-of-its-worst-officials/

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/04/08/nfl-has-fired-some-of-its-worst-officials/

No. I said earlier that it only has to be a few refs dedicated to certain games.

I am not going back through the entire book but if you are interested get ‘The Fix Is In’. It’s inexpensive. It covers all major sports and is pretty convincing on all but MLB imo. I followed NASCAR for years and quit watching because of so many fixes being uncovered, like a car winning Daytona in the spring, the engine being sold to a lesser team, only to be disqualified in the summer race’s time trials, before the team attempted to adjust the previously winning engine. Basketball seemed to mainly be linked to point shaving, often linked to gambling and crime. Who is going to speak out against the mob in the 60’s and 70’s?

You don’t have to believe it. I have seen enough to convince me that NFL games are tampered with for more than one reason, and believe that the more they get away with, the more they push it further and further.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

After re-watching the Denver game it was painfully obvious the refs were trying to keep Denver in the game. It's almost like they weren't even watching the game and just making blatantly bad calls. I don't know how to explain it actually, I'm at a loss.

The Rams played great Defense all day and it's sad to see the NFL / Refs make calls like this just for assumed Ratings. These things have to be put in check by the league or it's going to turn off most of the NFL true fans which could and will ruin this great game. Time to get someone in charge that's actually played the game. No more Lawyers.

They did it in Seattle too. The receiver clearly ran out of bounds in the end zone only to come back in to catch a TD pass. The ref threw a flag and picked it up.

The NCAA seems to be doing it also. This past weekend a hold was called on a Dlineman, in one game. It was replayed and there wasn’t anything close to a hold. If anything the DT was held. It kept the opposing teams winning drive alive.

 

[RamFan503]

The kickers plant foot is an exception to the rule of offsides.

The kicker is an exception to the rule on being offside on a kickoff. He may have his plant foot ahead of the ball or free kick line. Pro and NCAA rules refer to any other player being ahead of the kick as offside. ... These are live ball fouls in the NFL and NCAA, a dead ball foul in high school federation football.

But didn’t his other foot come across as well?

 

[EastRam]

Well we should get a Super Bowl just based on the fact SK brought LA a new venue with NFL studios and two. Count them two NFL teams to the second largest market.

SB here we come.

 

[EastRam]

But didn’t his other foot come across as well?

Don't think it matters with the Kicker. He is exempt from the off sides kicking rule.

 

[Angry Ram]

I'm all about taking responsibility for your own actions, taking responsibility to not put yourself in that situation, etc. However, some things are beyond your control. One bad call is one thing. Ten bad calls are another.

The ability of an official to favor a team and change a game is real.

Can/should teams overcome that when it happens? Sure.

Should they have to? No.

The number of bad calls is not 10 bad calls a game.

I don't buy in that a ref or ref crew favors a team. Not without hard evidence, and I'm not going to take what fans on the internet that complain about them every week as a valid argument.

Honestly I'm so over people complaining over refs. I just scroll right past those comments. If you hadn't had tagged me I wouldn't even made the effort to open this thread.

 

[RamFan503]

Don't think it matters with the Kicker. He is exempt from the off sides kicking rule.

Seems odd. You may be right but it seems that the kicker shouldn’t be able to fake a kick off go pst the LOS and go back and kick it without a whistle being blown and everybody being reset. If a ball gets blown off the tee when the kicker approaches, the whistle is blown and the ball reset. Not sure why they would need to if this was the case. I’ve seen several times when that happened before anyone moved and the whistle blew.

 

[Mojo Ram]

But Mojo if what you are saying has any merit blowouts would be rare. We saw 6-7 this weekend alone.

That's just it. A 34-10 blowout midway thru the 3rd qtr, for example, is not a circumstance where the officials can regularly push the agenda i'm referring to.

I believe they're for the most part calling a straight game (early) unless it's later in the game and then one or two sabotaged possessions to the team in control will clearly add "drama" and extend the game. That is what's going on.

Holding calls, ball spots, PI's, personal fouls etc. These are calls that can be made, or not made, that are non-challengable(with the exception of ball spots) that kill momentum. It's more about timing than anything else and the timing has been transparent in my eyes as a football fan and former NBA fan. We saw the same shit going on there in decades past.

It's not possible to prove any kind of conspiracy because i'm not talking about refs betting on games or fixing wins and losses which would have a tangible trail of a crime. This is an agenda to extend games for tv ratings if and when at all possible.