Officials/Refs (Any Accountability?)

[Mackeyser]

Also the rules for OT are different now, I posted an article that mentions that.

I think they will tweak it again soon.



It's not being "allowed" it's being missed. Players have figured out that the refs can't see a hold if they body up the defender. Look at Donald when he is being held, it's usually in tight quarters and by the front of his pads. Players know what angles the refs have a view too.

It's a trick everyone playing on every OL knows now and uses. They get away with it because the refs don't have the view we have at home. We see it from above looking down. We see everything going on at the LOS. And from different angles a few times each play.

Just like how defenders playing a WR know they can wrap an arm around in certain situations and the refs won't see it.

The solution is more eyes on the field of play.

There is only ONE guy watching the OL. The other ref in the backfield is always watching the QB or the RB depending on whether its a run or pass.

Take a look at what I mean. One guy is watching the entire OL and DL..........so one dude is responsible for half the players on every play. It's not enough.

https://operations.nfl.com/the-offi...ly-good/officials-responsibilities-positions/



The Patriots were not a bad team, they were good, and excellent on defense. They were 11-5, with an O that could score and a D that was one of the best in points allowed. During the season they played the Rams very tough in a close game and held the Rams to 24 points which was low for that team. I'm not defending them for cheatring, and I think they did, but that team was no joke.

As far as the Saints they won that SB like 5 seasons after Katrina. I can't see that correlation since Katrina was a memory by then .

There is nothing that can possibly support a conspiracy about refereeing of games. The thing that can be supported is that there are not enough refs in places where they are needed. They miss calls.

IMO pass interference is as big an issue as holding. Everyone on the LOS is grabbing. Watch Donald when he is pushing someone out of his path..........he has handfuls of jersey plenty of times.

There are 7 refs on the field. 2 of them are in the backfield, 2 are on the sidelines at the LOS, and 3 are watching the ENTIRE rest of the field. And only one is watching for holding.

The Seahawks got away with more PI than any team ever because rather than trying to avoid contact they grabbed where the refs couldn't see. Lots of defenders do the same thing now.

Sorry, brother. I respect you like crazy, but we just don't agree on this.

It's gotten to the point now where 4th quarter comebacks aren't even special anymore with all of the way games are being called now.

I almost prefer not to have a big lead at the half and pull away in the 2nd half because by the time we go up 2 or 3 scores, the manipulations appear much too obvious (hasn't stopped it from happening, but less chance they can affect the outcome).

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Also the rules for OT are different now, I posted an article that mentions that.

I think they will tweak it again soon.



It's not being "allowed" it's being missed. Players have figured out that the refs can't see a hold if they body up the defender. Look at Donald when he is being held, it's usually in tight quarters and by the front of his pads. Players know what angles the refs have a view too.

It's a trick everyone playing on every OL knows now and uses. They get away with it because the refs don't have the view we have at home. We see it from above looking down. We see everything going on at the LOS. And from different angles a few times each play.

Just like how defenders playing a WR know they can wrap an arm around in certain situations and the refs won't see it.

The solution is more eyes on the field of play.

There is only ONE guy watching the OL. The other ref in the backfield is always watching the QB or the RB depending on whether its a run or pass.

Take a look at what I mean. One guy is watching the entire OL and DL..........so one dude is responsible for half the players on every play. It's not enough.

https://operations.nfl.com/the-offi...ly-good/officials-responsibilities-positions/



The Patriots were not a bad team, they were good, and excellent on defense. They were 11-5, with an O that could score and a D that was one of the best in points allowed. During the season they played the Rams very tough in a close game and held the Rams to 24 points which was low for that team. I'm not defending them for cheatring, and I think they did, but that team was no joke.

As far as the Saints they won that SB like 5 seasons after Katrina. I can't see that correlation since Katrina was a memory by then .

There is nothing that can possibly support a conspiracy about refereeing of games. The thing that can be supported is that there are not enough refs in places where they are needed. They miss calls.

IMO pass interference is as big an issue as holding. Everyone on the LOS is grabbing. Watch Donald when he is pushing someone out of his path..........he has handfuls of jersey plenty of times.

There are 7 refs on the field. 2 of them are in the backfield, 2 are on the sidelines at the LOS, and 3 are watching the ENTIRE rest of the field. And only one is watching for holding.

The Seahawks got away with more PI than any team ever because rather than trying to avoid contact they grabbed where the refs couldn't see. Lots of defenders do the same thing now.

Katrina wasn't a distant memory. That was the theme of the Superbowl. That's what everyone talked about. It's great for this city that has had such a catastrophe, that is rising from the onslaught of Katrina. How fitting it is that they should hoist the trophy. It's a symbol of triumph for the whole city, blah, blah, blah.


And is there evidence? No, but if a known pervert is the last person seen near a missing child, it's safe to make assumptions, or link the evidence to draw conclusions. In this case the NFL is the pervert and the American public is the cops. I am a cynic by nature. I have seen to much of the inner workings of men and that which usually drives it is money. I prefer to not stick my head in the sand and swallow whatever is fed to me, because there is no evidence. There is usually no evidence in any case, until you dig for it, or someone slips up. The last thing I trust are giant corporations. How many years did Monsanto claim that Round Up was safe for crops? Why would the lie? The lied for Money. It's no different with any company trying to sell a product. They will do whatever it takes to sell it.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

@LesBaker and the key to it all is that every professional sports league is self governing. They answer to no one. They make the rules. They change the rules. They shit on the rules and no one can stop them because it is their league, or I like to think of it as their club.

 

[LesBaker]

Katrina wasn't a distant memory. That was the theme of the Superbowl. That's what everyone talked about. It's great for this city that has had such a catastrophe, that is rising from the onslaught of Katrina. How fitting it is that they should hoist the trophy. It's a symbol of triumph for the whole city, blah, blah, blah.

I'm going to go place a bet on the Panthers winning it all in 2023 then because of Michael! And the Dolphins in 2022 because of Irma since the NFL will be handing them both SB wins for the problems they have had from catastrophes.

Or should I go with Houston not Miami in 2022 because of Harvey?

Hmmmmmmmm, Harvey was harsher on Houston than Irma was on Miami she hit hard here and there's no NFL team in Naples.

Oh well I have time to decide.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I'm going to go place a bet on the Panthers winning it all in 2023 then because of Michael! And the Dolphins in 2022 because of Irma since the NFL will be handing them both SB wins for the problems they have had from catastrophes.

Or should I go with Houston not Miami in 2022 because of Harvey?

Hmmmmmmmm, Harvey was harsher on Houston than Irma was on Miami she hit hard here and there's no NFL team in Naples.

Oh well I have time to decide.

Nope, been there, done that. TThey won't return to that well. he NFL isn't romanticism, or traumatizing any of those hurricanes. None of those stadiums were ruined. None of those teams had to spend a season on the road either, which essentially means that Katrina even robbed N.O. of their team. And wasn't that Superbowl in New Orleans?

 

[LesBaker]

It's gotten to the point now where 4th quarter comebacks aren't even special anymore with all of the way games are being called now.

I almost prefer not to have a big lead at the half and pull away in the 2nd half because by the time we go up 2 or 3 scores, the manipulations appear much too obvious (hasn't stopped it from happening, but less chance they can affect the outcome).

What info do you have to back this up?

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

What info do you have to back this up?

Don't you agree that the refs kept Seattle and Denver both in the last two Rams games? If not for bad calls Denver would have scored 3 points. Seattle was totally gifted their last drive as was Denver. The refs also through a flag as a receiver ran out of bounds and came in and caught the ball, calling it a TD. Then the flag is picked up with no explanation why.

 

[Mackeyser]

What info do you have to back this up?

Nothing...besides the actual games being played and the universal disdain by hardcore informed fans of every team who see this and recognize this for what it is.

 

[LesBaker]

Nothing...besides the actual games being played and the universal disdain by hardcore informed fans of every team who see this and recognize this for what it is.

Are 4th quarter comeback increasing though?

 

[Mackeyser]

I just know what I see.

during the Pats, Chiefs game after the Pats scored with 3:23 left in the game, I said to my child sitting next to me "watch, the Chiefs will score and then the Pats will kick a FG to win it.

After the game, my child looked at me like I was Nostradamus.

What I have seen is that every single "comeback" had help from refs. Any team down by 10 or more in the 4th that came back to win or at least take it to OT had help.

so, I'm seeing patterns develop.

I could be right or...I could be doing that Beautiful mind thing where I'm totally nuts...

See, now if all this work I've done doesn't prove what I'm saying...nothing will...

 

[Mojo Ram]

I just know what I see.

We see the same,and to be honest i tend to ignore it during Rams games because i know i have an inner bias. It's when i sit down, pay attention and watch three or four non-Rams games every week that i realize what's really going on. It's so transparent.

 

[LesBaker]

I could be right or...I could be doing that Beautiful mind thing where I'm totally nuts...

It's when i sit down, pay attention and watch three or four non-Rams games every week that i realize what's really going on. It's so transparent.

I'm gonna start a poll on you two LOL.

 

[Mojo Ram]

I'm gonna start a poll on you two LOL.

Will it be a pole that is too hot to handle?

 

[jacktheripper85]

Super Bowl 36 says hi.

Super Bowl 24 says hi. What’s your point?

 

[jacktheripper85]

I just know what I see.

during the Pats, Chiefs game after the Pats scored with 3:23 left in the game, I said to my child sitting next to me "watch, the Chiefs will score and then the Pats will kick a FG to win it.

After the game, my child looked at me like I was Nostradamus.

What I have seen is that every single "comeback" had help from refs. Any team down by 10 or more in the 4th that came back to win or at least take it to OT had help.

so, I'm seeing patterns develop.

I could be right or...I could be doing that Beautiful mind thing where I'm totally nuts...

See, now if all this work I've done doesn't prove what I'm saying...nothing will...

Yeah, I don’t remember any games like this when Montana, Bradshaw, Staubach, Tarkenton, Stabler, Kelly, Aikman, Theisman, etc, etc, etc played. C’mon man.

 

[Mackeyser]

Huh? Super Bowl 24???

Super Bowl 36 was fishy af. Heck, I said in October of 2001 that there was no way ANY team not named the "Patriots" was going to win the Super Bowl and I think they were 4-4 at the time (EDIT: actually, it was the first week of November and they were 4-4).

You couple that with Faulk recollecting someone filming their walk through and the Pats defenders calling out plays that the Rams had NEVER run in any game or exposed to the public in any way other than the walk through and you have a game that was fishy af.

Not to mention (which is an odd expression seeing as I am expressly mentioning this), the refs refusing to call person foul after personal foul including blatant spearing and pass interference over and over and over again.

And the Rams STILL nearly won.

It was the most obvious cheat in sports. ANYONE who thought that the Rams were going to beat the Patriots after 9/11 wasn't in touch. Didn't matter that they had a rookie QB who had something like 112 yards passing or w/e.

The Patriots were going to win that game no matter what the refs had to do.

I just looked up SB24 and that was the 9ers blowing out the Broncos 55-10.

If you're saying that SB24 was affected, then by all means share.

But really, let's not pretend that SB36 was remotely legit. It wasn't.

 

[jacktheripper85]

Huh? Super Bowl 24???

Super Bowl 36 was fishy af. Heck, I said in October of 2001 that there was no way ANY team not named the "Patriots" was going to win the Super Bowl and I think they were 4-4 at the time (EDIT: actually, it was the first week of November and they were 4-4).

You couple that with Faulk recollecting someone filming their walk through and the Pats defenders calling out plays that the Rams had NEVER run in any game or exposed to the public in any way other than the walk through and you have a game that was fishy af.

Not to mention (which is an odd expression seeing as I am expressly mentioning this), the refs refusing to call person foul after personal foul including blatant spearing and pass interference over and over and over again.

And the Rams STILL nearly won.

It was the most obvious cheat in sports. ANYONE who thought that the Rams were going to beat the Patriots after 9/11 wasn't in touch. Didn't matter that they had a rookie QB who had something like 112 yards passing or w/e.

The Patriots were going to win that game no matter what the refs had to do.

I just looked up SB24 and that was the 9ers blowing out the Broncos 55-10.

If you're saying that SB24 was affected, then by all means share.

But really, let's not pretend that SB36 was remotely legit. It wasn't.

My point was about refs purposely calling games a certain way to keep them close. What happened to Super Bowl 24-didn’t the refs get the memo?

 

[Mackeyser]

Yeah, I don’t remember any games like this when Montana, Bradshaw, Staubach, Tarkenton, Stabler, Kelly, Aikman, Theisman, etc, etc, etc played. C’mon man.

You miss my point.

Obviously talented teams made come backs.

My point is that they also lost them.

Nowadays, it seems that the NFL is almost as scripted as the WWE.

If we disagree, then we disagree, but "c'mon man" isn't an argument. It's a dismissal.

I would say that there's too much circumstantial evidence to ignore. And as any prosecutor will tell you, most criminal cases and most civil cases with lower burdens of proof are decided on circumstantial evidence.

It doesn't help the NFL's case when they discover PROOF of filming that they allow the Pats to destroy their evidence when they allege that they only used ONE tape like they're some old lady taping her soaps...

What's more credible? That the NFL has established a broad narrative using refs (who cannot be criticized even by ownership) to sway outcomes or that all this great story telling is the result of this miraculous serendipity even more unlikely than a room full of monkeys at typewriters giving us the complete works of Shakespeare?

 

[Mackeyser]

My point was about refs purposely calling games a certain way to keep them close. What happened to Super Bowl 24-didn’t the refs get the memo?

This started with Super Bowl 36.

If I didn't state then, then let me correct that error.

 

[jacktheripper85]

You miss my point.

Obviously talented teams made come backs.

My point is that they also lost them.

Nowadays, it seems that the NFL is almost as scripted as the WWE.

If we disagree, then we disagree, but "c'mon man" isn't an argument. It's a dismissal.

I would say that there's too much circumstantial evidence to ignore. And as any prosecutor will tell you, most criminal cases and most civil cases with lower burdens of proof are decided on circumstantial evidence.

It doesn't help the NFL's case when they discover PROOF of filming that they allow the Pats to destroy their evidence when they allege that they only used ONE tape like they're some old lady taping her soaps...

What's more credible? That the NFL has established a broad narrative using refs (who cannot be criticized even by ownership) to sway outcomes or that all this great story telling is the result of this miraculous serendipity even more unlikely than a room full of monkeys at typewriters giving us the complete works of Shakespeare?

I guess I’m just not understanding your point. Are you telling me that the NFL picks a handful of games every week and tells the refs to keep them close? Why bother? With the advent of the salary cap most games are competitive. Why tarnish the product and take that risk? I mean Jerry Jones entertained a bus load of referees and his team hasn’t won anything in 20 years. I just don’t get your point. Refs are going to make mistakes and as for blowouts refs always adjust to move the games along. Whether it’s expanding the strike zone, calling less fouls, etc. it happens in every sport when the score gets out of hand.