Odell Beckham available for trade?

[Farr Be It]

Yes, I'll be moving in with @CGI_Ram but don't tell him.

"Hey @CGI_Ram You got a pool out back, there?"

CGI: "I've got a pool,...AND a pond....Pond would be good for you."

 

[Mackeyser]

Picking on you Mac....I would beg to differ that these two aren't similar. Much better scheme for Odell for most of his career....Much better QB play.
And

Sammy Watkins runs every single route there is...

Skill is similar..

Production is much different...I blame the QB's (targets & missed opportunities)...(Taylor/Goff)....Eli USED OBJ...sometimes to a fault.
Hmmm...this is debatable too....Just looking at our current roster....our DB's are more highly decorated and paid..than the wr's.

Watkins is a height/weight/speed guy.

Odell Beckham is someone with amazing hands, lateral agility and makes circus catches. Their body types are different, their separation is very different (OBJ is next level a better separator vs Watkins. Heck, both Woods and Kupp...as a rookie...were better at separation than Watkins)... Watkins has more in common with Julio than OBJ... although Julio is arguably better.

They aren't similar at all.

Don't misunderstand. I think Watkins is a top shelf receiver, but when you combine the idea that he's not the highest football IQ guy, doesn't pick up changes super fast (which is a requirement with McVay) and needs to be fed a ton of targets to be a difference maker, I do not agree that he's the best fit for this offense.

I think OBJ in this offense is an entire tier better than Watkins...in this offense.

Actually, with OBJ, I think the only reason we don't average 40 pts per game would be that our D is so stingy that McVay calls off the dogs midway through the 3rd quarter... Heck, that happened quite a lot last year.

 

[Merlin]

Don't misunderstand. I think Watkins is a top shelf receiver, but when you combine the idea that he's not the highest football IQ guy, doesn't pick up changes super fast (which is a requirement with McVay) and needs to be fed a ton of targets to be a difference maker, I do not agree that he's the best fit for this offense.

I'd like to note here that Watkins doesn't have a history of struggling to pick up offenses, Mack. His rookie season was instant impact, with damn near 1k yards. IMO his schematic struggles with the Rams had more to do with the fact he went through Buffalo's camp and played the regular season for us.

 

[Mackeyser]

Yeah...that's interesting too...remember he was asked directly, how long would it take? He brushed it off with answers of not long..Yada, yada....:blah: Yet we saw misreads...and mis-run routes throughout the season.

I would think a full offseason would help.....and I think if OBJ signs on, he'll be behind a lot of the wr's in the knowledge of this offense as well.

Thing is, Watkins wasn't used to playing in a WCO. OBJ is coming from a WCO.

in 2016, the NYG played literally 90% of their plays from the "11" grouping which consists of 3WR, 1TE, 1RB.
The league average that year was 60%.

So OBJ will already be familiar with the concepts and responsibilities unlike Watkins.

The adjustment from McAdoo's offense is that we utilize other formations more often.

But if he's got a full off-season with the team, I have every bit of faith and confidence that OBJ would be FULLY in the playbook in a way that Goff could trust him before the season started.

 

[Mackeyser]

I'd like to note here that Watkins doesn't have a history of struggling to pick up offenses, Mack. His rookie season was instant impact, with damn near 1k yards. IMO his schematic struggles with the Rams had more to do with the fact he went through Buffalo's camp and played the regular season for us.

I dunno. Could be.

Could be that he just never earned the trust of Goff.

But... it's troubling that 3/4 through the season, he wasn't fully in the playbook and was open about Goff having to help him out.

That wasn't cool and why I said what I said.

As for his rookie season, if you look at what he did, he wasn't doing it like Kupp did where he did a little of everything. He was part of a pretty simple, vertical offense.

I wonder if the WCO just felt foreign to him (which makes his next stop, KC, a bit of a question mark)

We'll see.

I wanted to keep Sammy, but he went for the money. More power to him. I had hoped with an off-season, he could be on board and fully in the playbook.

Moving on, I can see the potential OBJ has in this offense, schematically and as a personnel fit and it's...staggering and substantially better than Watkins.

 

[Ramhusker]

All you guys that are hating the thought of OBJ, can I assume you'll be moving to Canada when we get him?

Look, I hate the little bastard too, but it's the path to the Super Bowl.

Why is it when somebody in the US doesn't like something, they think they can move to Canada? Why don't they ever claim they are going to move to Mexico? Can't you get Sunday Ticket there too?

 

[Mackeyser]

Why is it when somebody in the US doesn't like something, they think they can move to Canada? Why don't they ever claim they are going to move to Mexico? Can't you get Sunday Ticket there too?

There's no Canadian equivalent of Montezuma's revenge...unless you're lactose intolerant and gorge on Poutine...

 

[LuvMeThemRams]

Yes, I'll be moving in with @CGI_Ram but don't tell him.

Haha, love it. Thanks for getting it was a joke.

 

[LuvMeThemRams]

Strange. I thought when Suh was signed THAT was the path to the Super Bowl.

And, you know, if the Rams don't trade for OBJ, then they will have some cap dollars to sign fill ins as they are cut to provide depth, plus have a first to get help. So the Rams should be favored to make the Super Bowl before that, and will get more help, even without OBJ.

Oh, and if the Rams don't get OBJ, based on your comment I assume you will be moving to Canada.

Paths are like bacon, just saying.

 

[LuvMeThemRams]

Why is it when somebody in the US doesn't like something, they think they can move to Canada? Why don't they ever claim they are going to move to Mexico? Can't you get Sunday Ticket there too?

It's all about the water.

 

[Ramhusker]

It's all about the water.

Yeah but the weed, the weed!

 

[kurtfaulk]

you plagiarist you.

.

 

[nighttrain]

Yeah but the weed, the weed!

THE TEQUILA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[StealYoGurley]

Giving up draft picks, even just a 1 this year and a 3 next year for a one year rental for a player coming off of season ending ankle surgery and one that brings a diva attitude and immaturity all around is in no way shape or form an intelligent use of resources.

If you give that up the point is keeping him long term. Give this front office more credit than that.

Diva? If the rams have proven anything this offseason it is if you are passionate about the game and can play it a very high level they will take all the other stuff that comes with that. IMO no dennying OBJ's passion or talent level.

McVay's offense doesn't need a "true #1" WR, in fact his play design and play calling would never accommodate that type of player. Beckham will want at least 10 passes thrown his way, it's been that way since he was a rookie. That will rarely happen in this offense, there are too many different types of weapons deployed on almost each play and Goff has been taught to spread it all over the field. Beckham won't be happy. And we know what that will lead to.

No it doesn't but it does require as many weapons as possible. In his last fully healthy seasons OBJ got about 10 targets per game in 2015, and about 10.5 in 2016 (he had a crazy 20 target game that kind threw things off). Part of the reason he was a target hog was the best weapon he played with was victor cruz past his prime. Goff does spread the ball, but if you're open you're open and very few get open like OBJ.

Rams have too many weapons? McVay always says you can never have too many. Currently, they only have 2 established weapons in Kupp and Woods. Last season Woods averaged about 7 targets per game, Kupp got about 6, and Sammy had 5. However, players can easily get 10 plus targets in this offense. When Woods and Goff really started clicking towards the end of the season. Over the last 5 games that Woods played, he averaged 10 targets per game including 14 targets in the playoff game vs the Falcons. I see no reason why OBJ cant be that sort of feature weapon in our offense if we get him in sooner rather than later so he can develop some chemistry with Goff. With the Rams playing better defense giving the offense more snaps IMO there is easily enough room to give OBJ Sammy's targets and then some at around 10 targets per game without significantly decreasing the looks Woods and Kupp get. OBJ is also more versatile so you can target him in more ways than you di Sammy.

In McVays last season with the Skins Garcon got 7.25 targets per game, Crowder got 7, and Desean got about 6.5. Jordan Reed was the feature guy at 7.25 targets, but he was always injured so his numbers looked worse than they are because he consistently got 10+ targets. Reed eclipsed the 10 target mark in 5 of the 12 games he played. That averages to about 28 targets to the top 4 weapons. All those weapons all had at least three 10 target games that season. My point is even though McVay spreads around the ball he proved he can consistently get the ball to a featured guy while still allowing the other pieces to thrive. IMO the rams can easily hit that 28 targets spread and keep everyone happy giving OBJ 10, Woods 7, Kupp 6, and the TE (hopefully Everett) 5 on average.

Who wouldn't want that kind of production from a WR. But the question becomes at least to me is would I want OBJ at that production over the production we get from Aaron Donald? Maybe instead of Todd Gurley? Or how about Jared Goff? Couple that with the asking priced. You're going to lose one of those three more than likely plus you're cutting out the production of our next two 1st round picks, that's their current asking price. OBJ's production at WR better than Todd Gurley and lets say Harold Landry if we pick him this year and say Andrew Witworth's long term successor we pick at 32 next year?

Im not sure the price will climb to two first rounders considering OBJ's contract situation, but who knows. The more I look at it the more I think its unlikely Landry makes it to 23. He is top edge player on many boards behind Chubb and he plays at arguably the most valued position on defenese. Would love to have him, but I dont think he will be there. IMO No player at 23 combined with a whatever we give up next year is going to equal OBJ, he is that good.

For me salary is the only problem to solve and many people have raised fair points in that regard. I don't think OBJ means no Donald, Gurley, or Goff. IMO the only one in that group and OBJ signing would effect the most is Gurley and he stands to make the least on his next contract out of that bunch. We have no clue what his market will be because Leveon and the steelers cannot come to terms on a market setting contract. Lets say the rams give OBJ and Donald about 20 million per year each they would still have up to 60 Million in cap space before cap increases in 2019 and 2020 because the 10 mil plus salaries of Talib and Whitworth come off the books. You can still give Saffold guaranteed money that expires before they have to resign Goff and Gurley and have space to bring back one of Hav or Brown. Would have to weigh if losing players like Peters and Joyner would make it worth it.

Another thing to consider is the CBA expires after 2020 and if im the players I'm looking for a massive increase in the salary cap especially if the NFL continues to thrive as a business. Gives the Rams more room to extend Goff and potentially Gurley coming off a franchise tag.

 

[Turducken]

Kupp's such a great bargain on his rookie deal. I'd rather give them Woods (then at least we could afford OBJ).

 

[SeminoleRam]

Kupp's such a great bargain on his rookie deal. I'd rather give them Woods (then at least we could afford OBJ).

I hope the Rams aren't considering including Kupp OR Woods in any trade talks with the Giants! Personally, I wouldn't trade either Kupp or Woods even up for Beckham! Kupp and Woods are two talented and classy players who I hope play for the Rams for many seasons!

 

[LuvMeThemRams]

I hope the Rams aren't considering including Kupp OR Woods in any trade talks with the Giants! Personally, I wouldn't trade either Kupp or Woods even up for Beckham! Kupp and Woods are two talented and classy players who I hope play for the Rams for many seasons!

As much as I've been advocating for cry baby OBJ, the only guy I'd care to see traded is TA. Cupp and Woods MUST be part of our success.

 

[OC_Ram]

Yeah but the weed, the weed!

Well Cali has goodies too

 

[Turducken]

I hope the Rams aren't considering including Kupp OR Woods in any trade talks with the Giants! Personally, I wouldn't trade either Kupp or Woods even up for Beckham! Kupp and Woods are two talented and classy players who I hope play for the Rams for many seasons!

I'd rather keep them too. Both are sterling character guys playing way above their salaries, but I'd trade both of them for a couple of Lombardi trophies.