OFFICIAL NFL injuries 2021/22 season

[dieterbrock]

Yeah will be interesting what the team told James to do. If his strength and cond. coach gave him a regiment to follow in offseason and he was doing it I'd think that would have some weight to a decision. If his coach was texting, calling, or sending him instructions that would be proof.

Really every team is going to be different how they've handled players up until this incident. A lot of teams probably encouraged and supported their players working off campus while others are probably hard asses about it. Throw in a pandemic and extra abnormal circumstances and you'd think there'd be a lot of coaches that don't agree with the NFLs stance at the moment either. Of course, coaches and players opinions don't mean a whole lot to the billionaires and their money so might not matter if they want to throw their legal might into it.

Denver is pissed at the waste of investment they made. They signed this guy to a huge FA deal and 4 games in he blew out his knee and missed the rest of the season. Then he opts out of 2020 and though they didnt have to pay him, it's still another year he's not helping the team. And now he's going to be out the season again, and their minds are blown. They are pissed that they dont want to pay him a second year of his contract when he's only played 4 games. It sucks for them, but this poor dude gave up a year salary, and now they want to stiff him on his paycheck this year? That's pretty messed up. On top of it, the league jumps in and "clarifies" the rule regarding "off site training" which to me is a little bad taste since many are still avoiding congested work areas due to Covid fears.
Its a bad look all around IMO. If Matt Stafford blew out his achilles in Cabo windsurfing that's one thing, but if he was keeping in shape by jogging 5 miles every morning and then blew out the achilles? Slippery slope

 

[1maGoh]

Denver is pissed at the waste of investment they made. They signed this guy to a huge FA deal and 4 games in he blew out his knee and missed the rest of the season. Then he opts out of 2020 and though they didnt have to pay him, it's still another year he's not helping the team. And now he's going to be out the season again, and their minds are blown. They are pissed that they dont want to pay him a second year of his contract when he's only played 4 games. It sucks for them, but this poor dude gave up a year salary, and now they want to stiff him on his paycheck this year? That's pretty messed up. On top of it, the league jumps in and "clarifies" the rule regarding "off site training" which to me is a little bad taste since many are still avoiding congested work areas due to Covid fears.
Its a bad look all around IMO. If Matt Stafford blew out his achilles in Cabo windsurfing that's one thing, but if he was keeping in shape by jogging 5 miles every morning and then blew out the achilles? Slippery slope

I don't know man. The game requires the players to be in incredible shape. As such, the teams are willing to provide everything a player needs to be in that shape. If the player decides to say "Fuck that. If rather be at home." Then that's a choice they are making. Can they start in the shape the teams want/need them in? No one knows. Are they being monitored as closely for health and nutrition issues working out away from the team? No one knows.

My personal opinion is that the best systems involve trade offs. You want to be covered against all injury? Work out with the team. You want to go back to your home region in the off season? That's okay, but the team won't pay if you hurt yourself in a workout the team has no knowledge of our any guaranty of quality about. Everyone gets to make their big boy choices and deal with the consequences.

Any system that guarantees one party always gets the best possible outcome, also guarantees that the other party always gets the worst possible outcome. That is what doesn't seem right to me.

 

[dieterbrock]

I don't know man. The game requires the players to be in incredible shape. As such, the teams are willing to provide everything a player needs to be in that shape. If the player decides to say "Fuck that. If rather be at home." Then that's a choice they are making. Can they start in the shape the teams want/need them in? No one knows. Are they being monitored as closely for health and nutrition issues working out away from the team? No one knows.

My personal opinion is that the best systems involve trade offs. You want to be covered against all injury? Work out with the team. You want to go back to your home region in the off season? That's okay, but the team won't pay if you hurt yourself in a workout the team has no knowledge of our any guaranty of quality about. Everyone gets to make their big boy choices and deal with the consequences.

Any system that guarantees one party always gets the best possible outcome, also guarantees that the other party always gets the worst possible outcome. That is what doesn't seem right to me.

Aaron Donald maintains an off season residence in Pittsburgh area and spends a lot of time there working with his foundation. You think he's not going to work out when he has some spare time? Of course he is

 

[OldSchool]

Aaron Donald maintains an off season residence in Pittsburgh area and spends a lot of time there working with his foundation. You think he's not going to work out when he has some spare time? Of course he is

Aaron Donald is also smart enough to get approval by the Rams for his workouts unlike Juwan James.

 

[dieterbrock]

Aaron Donald is also smart enough to get approval by the Rams for his workouts unlike Juwan James.

James was following a workout given by his trainer

 

[OldSchool]

James was following a workout given by his trainer

Great? Was it ok/approved by the team? We know it wasn't. My point was AD is smart enough to get those workouts he and his trainer want to do approved by the team. In other words AD is smart enough to cover his ass.

 

[dieterbrock]

Great? Was it ok/approved by the team? We know it wasn't. My point was AD is smart enough to get those workouts he and his trainer want to do approved by the team. In other words AD is smart enough to cover his ass.

You think Aaron Donald goes to a gym and follows a training program given by his trainer? That its been "approved"?
Answer- because its Aaron Donald, the answer is yes. If it is a player the team wants rid of, the answer is NO

 

[OldSchool]

You think Aaron Donald goes to a gym and follows a training program given by his trainer? That its been "approved"?
Answer- because its Aaron Donald, the answer is yes. If it is a player the team wants rid of, the answer is NO

No I think because AD is smart enough to protect his big ass contract he goes to McVay and Reggie Scott and works with them and his trainer to get his desired workouts ok'd by them. Or do you think he's not this smart? Why are we debating whether AD is smart enough to do things the right way?

 

[dieterbrock]

No I think because AD is smart enough to protect his big ass contract he goes to McVay and Reggie Scott and works with them and his trainer to get his desired workouts ok'd by them. Or do you think he's not this smart? Why are we debating whether AD is smart enough to do things the right way?

Because I don’t think these guys are thinking about the letter of the contract when they are working out in the off season at their home.
Its a stupid play by the owners and not very well thought thru. They’d rather the players not work out in the off season? I’ve seen a bunch of videos of Donald doing his workouts off site. Some are crazy extreme. And there’s no way it’s “authorized”
Who’s going to let their franchise push weight like that without being in the presence of trainers.
Again, this is/was a petty move by the Broncos, who were pissed at him for opting out after playing only 4 games, then walking out of OTA’s on the Union advice.

 

[OldSchool]

Because I don’t think these guys are thinking about the letter of the contract when they are working out in the off season at their home.
Its a stupid play by the owners and not very well thought thru. They’d rather the players not work out in the off season? I’ve seen a bunch of videos of Donald doing his workouts off site. Some are crazy extreme. And there’s no way it’s “authorized”
Who’s going to let their franchise push weight like that without being in the presence of trainers.
Again, this is/was a petty move by the Broncos, who were pissed at him for opting out after playing only 4 games, then walking out of OTA’s on the Union advice.

Sorry I'm still shocked I have to defend the opinion that AD is smart and doing things right to protect himself. And that it's something strange that I think every player should be doing the same exact thing. Or that we have to go over again after many times that the players contract and the CBA that the NFLPA told the players to ignore lay out that if you get injured away from team facilities or authorized workouts you risk everything.

 

[dieterbrock]

Sorry I'm still shocked I have to defend the opinion that AD is smart and doing things right to protect himself. And that it's something strange that I think every player should be doing the same exact thing. Or that we have to go over again after many times that the players contract and the CBA that the NFLPA told the players to ignore lay out that if you get injured away from team facilities or authorized workouts you risk everything.

I’m shocked that you are missing my point.
Donald is just an example of off season workout warriors. Sorry but if you truly believe every athlete is checking in before any off season workout, it’s just silly.

 

[1maGoh]

Aaron Donald maintains an off season residence in Pittsburgh area and spends a lot of time there working with his foundation. You think he's not going to work out when he has some spare time? Of course he is

Donald is an exception to pretty much everything. He always will be. Plus, star players always get to play by different rules. That isn't fair, but every rule set has a final judge, that final judge is always human, and humans are always biased. There's no avoiding that.

Let's get back to the heart of this discussion. Should players be allowed to engage in whatever workout they want, supervised or unsupervised, in any environment they feel like and still be guaranteed 100% of their contract? Should players be allowed to engage in intentionally excessively right workouts outside of any supervision and still be guaranteed 100% of their contract? I personally don't think so.

I think that of players want to be guaranteed they will get paid off they are hurt while training, they should be training in a way that the team can be liable for.

I guess that's a simpler way to put how I feel about it:

If the team is responsible for the training and supervision, then they are responsible for anything that occurs during that training because it's directly their fault.

If the player has taken training and supervision into their own hands, then they are taking responsibility for what happens during that into their own hands.

Let's say you work at a factory and the job requirement is being able to lift 50 pounds over your head. If they provide an on-site gym and personal trainers, but you decide to work out at home, should you get workman's comp for injuring yourself at home while working out?

 

[dieterbrock]

Let's say you work at a factory and the job requirement is being able to lift 50 pounds over your head. If they provide an on-site gym and personal trainers, but you decide to work out at home, should you get workman's comp for injuring yourself at home while working out?

Are they hiring? Where can I get that job which provides an onsite gym and personal trainers? And if/when your doctor states your injury is due to a sustained history of lifting over 50# over one's head at work, voila! Workman's comp, disability, the whole enchilada.
The NFL is no longer the days of guys getting fat in the off season then busting their ass at training camp getting ready for the season. These guys are working out all off season to be prepared. James had been working out in the facility, and claims he was following the regimen provided by his coaches/trainer when he chose to be off site. I've yet to any detail that refutes that stance. Blowing out an achilles doesnt happen by sneezing, and like the disability case, I imagine he could gt supported medical opinion that claims it was the result of his previous training. Look, if the guy was trying the Happy Gilmore at Topgolf when he hurt himself, by all means hold back that money. But if the guy who missed 2020 and was working his ass off to be ready popped it? And he was performing the same workout remote that he had been at the facility? For sure he deserves the injury provision in his contract

 

[sloramfan]

how about a little reality check...

how do the broncos know for sure he tore his achilles "working out"? do they really know?

it brings me to a point where you only know what you know, and you don't know, what you don't know...

what denver knows is , he tore his achilles... working out, allegedly.... that's it,i assume, unless he has video and witnesses...

and part of my point would be, they paid him a signing bonus... and i assume it's part of the guaranteed end of the contract, and the rest of the contract probably has quite a few do's and don'ts.. i.e. work outs on your own are "on your own".. we can't monitor, so be careful, because we really don't know if you were working out, or skateboarding...

if i was denver i wouldn't pay him a penny of his remaining contract, that he just most likely, voided on his own..

you're paid millions to show up, and put on a show... don't blow it

and if you feel the need to do it alone(workout), cover your ass

go rams

slo

 

[CanadaRam]

I think another important point to consider is he got injured at a time that he was expected to be at Broncos facilities. It could well be that teams give permission during January to March before OTAs and then don't.
If I am the Broncos or any other team, I don't pay him unless he is absolutely someone I can't move on from. If someone I am paying millions to doesn't want to show up for work because of union protections, and then he is not available to do his job because he did not fulfill his requirements under that same union contract, how can anyone expect him to be paid.

 

[CGI_Ram]

it brings me to a point where you only know what you know, and you don't know, what you don't know...

As it relates to the James injury, this is very true. We are all working with a lot of assumptions right now.

And... there is likely a backstory here, if I had to guess. The bottom of my post is a link to a bizarre story about a James knee injury in 2019.

”He wasn’t mentally ready to play” for 2 weeks after being medically cleared from that knee injury.

Point being; @sloramfan is right, we only know what we know.

Examining the Broncos' Bizarre Handling of the Ja'Wuan James Situation

After being cleared medically more than two weeks ago, why is Ja'Wuan James' availability to play still up in the air?

www.si.com

 

[CGI_Ram]

Broncos cut right tackle Ja'Wuan James following torn Achilles

The Denver Broncos have cut right tackle Ja'Wuan James, NFL Network Insider Ian Rapoport reported. James recently tore his Achilles working out off-site and on Friday tweeted out that he had undergone successful surgery.

www.nfl.com

Broncos cut right tackle Ja'Wuan James following torn Achilles​

A torn Achilles has effectively ended Ja'Wuan James' days in Denver.

The Broncos cut James on Friday, NFL Network Insider Ian Rapoport reported.

James recently tore his Achilles working out off-site and on Friday tweeted out that he had undergone successful surgery.

James' release comes after he was placed on the non-football injury list with the intention being not to pay him the $10.58 million he was due in salary because his injury occurred away from the team facility, Rapoport reported. "Expect James' camp to fight it," Rapoport added.

It's a tumultuous end to James' tenure in Denver in which he played only three games after signing a massive four-year, $51 million deal ahead of the 2019 season.

A knee injury limited James to only three contests in 2019, his first with the Broncos after five with the Dolphins, who took him in the 2014 NFL Draft first round. Thereafter, James opted out of the 2020 season due to the COVID-19 pandemic.

Set to return in 2021, James sustained his injury on May 4 while working out away from the Broncos' club facility.

On May 7, James was placed on the non-football injury list and therefore, by league rule, the Broncos are not contractually obligated to pay him as the injury occurred away from team supervision in a location that isn't an NFL facility.

Prior to James' placement on the NFI list, conversation about James not being paid his salary was sparked to the point the NFL sent out a memo as a reminder that clubs have no contractual obligation if players are injured working out away from the team facility.

Ahead of Friday, the Broncos signed tackles Bobby Massie and Cameron Fleming to compete for the spot left vacant by James.

James' release comes on the same day in which it was reported Broncos wide receiver DaeSean Hamilton tore his ACL while also working out away from the team facility. Hamilton was reportedly set to be traded prior to being injured.

So, while James has been released by the Broncos, it's likely the matter of his salary -- and possibly Hamilton's -- is yet to be resolved.

 

[OldSchool]

Since I posted in the old thread my bad! Another Bronco player another victim of the unions terrible advice.


View: https://twitter.com/mikeklis/status/1393364793818447874?s=21

 

[OldSchool]

how about a little reality check...

how do the broncos know for sure he tore his achilles "working out"? do they really know?

it brings me to a point where you only know what you know, and you don't know, what you don't know...

what denver knows is , he tore his achilles... working out, allegedly.... that's it,i assume, unless he has video and witnesses...

and part of my point would be, they paid him a signing bonus... and i assume it's part of the guaranteed end of the contract, and the rest of the contract probably has quite a few do's and don'ts.. i.e. work outs on your own are "on your own".. we can't monitor, so be careful, because we really don't know if you were working out, or skateboarding...

if i was denver i wouldn't pay him a penny of his remaining contract, that he just most likely, voided on his own..

you're paid millions to show up, and put on a show... don't blow it

and if you feel the need to do it alone(workout), cover your ass

go rams

slo

James and his agent should have done with a reality check. All he had to do was check in with the GM/Head Coach and or their version of Reggie Scott. Gone over what he was planning on doing away from the team facility and got it approved and he would be covered. As it is since he was hurt away from the team facility by the letter of the CBA and his contract because they all have these stipulations in them it will be classified as a non football injury and he could and did lose everything. Yes he had a contract but those have terms that both parties have to adhere to. He didn't hold up his end and it's because his (imo) terrible union leadership gave the members the worst advice they could have.

 

[Mackeyser]

At the same time, arent we all amazed at the off season workouts of Aaron Donald? And if he were injured doing jumping jacks in his backyard, it wouldnt be covered? I dont know about this, seems a slippery slope that players are only covered if they are working out in a team facility since many have homes where they reside in the off season

How many have lauded Goff and Brady et al for going to Tom House to work out in the off-season?

Would we be talking this “an agreement is an agreement” stuff if Goff, encouraged by the club, were injured then?

There are plenty of facilities that offer pros position specific off-season technique and strength work for QBs, OL, WRs, and others... and the league has highlighted them, used league resources to speak positively about these efforts both of the players and the facilities that have aggregated the expertise as well as removed barriers.

I’d agree with any player who took issue with this.

It reminds me of the “safety” angle the NFL tried in the 90s while having and encouraging segments like Jacked Up.

It’s hypocritical of the league to laud the player’s efforts in the off-season while ONLY drawing the line when it affects their bottom line.

Either they need to VASTLY expand the “approved” list of facilities and programs or they need to renegotiate that part.

I prefer as a fan for our players in good conscience to be able to choose how to improve their skills and strengths under the league’s umbrella and with their blessing and short of malfeasance and/or negligence, that they be covered.

If every player adhered to the letter of the CBA, it would harm the league. No QB would be able to go to Tom House. No OL could go to that OL camp that’s all the rage. WRs and CBS couldn’t attend various speed camps... it’d just be bad for the league.

But lawyers gonna lawyer and business types gonna business...