NFL Black Monday Primer: Coaching hiring/firing discussion

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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ccaneers-tell-dirk-koetter-hes-safe-for-2018/

Report: Buccaneers tell Dirk Koetter he’s safe for 2018
Posted by Michael David Smith on December 29, 2017

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The Buccaneers won’t fire Dirk Koetter after all.

The Glazer family, owners of the Bucs, has informed Koetter that his job is safe and he will be the team’s coach in 2018, Rick Stroud of the Tampa Bay Timesreports.

Koetter is in his second season as Buccaneers head coach. After a promising start and a 9-7 record last year, his team has been one of this season’s biggest disappointments, falling to 4-11.

But that disappointment will not cost Koetter his job. He’ll get another year to show that he can build a winning team.
 

dieterbrock

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IMO, here are a few names to take over in Green Bay.
  1. Rex Ryan (ESPN Analyst) Rex IMO not that good at his current job and if they allow him to bring his brother Rob as Secondary Coach and that might just seal the deal and give Green Bay one of the better DC's ever.
  2. Mike Trgovac - Packers defensive line coach Internal Hire Trgovac has experience as an NFL defensive coordinator and was successful at it. He was the Panthers defensive coordinator from 2003-2008 before joining the Packers, and his group was ranked in the Top 10 in both yards and points allowed three times.
  3. Marion Hobby (Jaguars DL Coach) Hobby is in his first season as the Jaguars defensive line coach and they currently lead the NFL in sacks with 35. In 2016, Hobby was the co-defensive coordinator at Clemson and helped the team win a national title.
Rex won’t take a DC job, and probably one day will get another HC gig.
 

Petrowsky

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Koetter lacks the leadership skills you want, dude doesn't translate well to players, his offense blows, and the Bucs are getting what they deserve for undercutting Lovie so quickly IMO.
I thought that the Bucs getting rid of Lovie was a terrible idea. I think the guy is a good head coach and Chicago hasn’t been the same since he left. I would love to see what the Bucs would have done with him as the head coach still.
 

den-the-coach

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Rex won’t take a DC job, and probably one day will get another HC gig.

I don't think so, IMO, he's going to have to be a DC again be he gets another HC Gig if at all.8 seasons as a Head Coach with a career record of 61-66 and you get a ton of drama with him....I believe if he's ever going to get a chance again, he will have to be DC of a Super Bowl Champ and even then, I'm not so sure.
 

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I thought that the Bucs getting rid of Lovie was a terrible idea. I think the guy is a good head coach and Chicago hasn’t been the same since he left. I would love to see what the Bucs would have done with him as the head coach still.

I can't believe they kept Koetter. Dude is not enough a leader to run that team with a cocky SOB like Winston (who I like btw). He's a coach who translates well with the ownership, but not the players.

And that's fine by me, I enjoy watching the Bucs suck @$$.
 

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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...hing-news-brings-hot-seats-into-better-focus/

Friday’s coaching news brings hot seats into better focus
Posted by Mike Florio on December 30, 2017

With three teams making it known on Friday that their coaches won’t be getting fired after the last game of the season, the list of hot spots is shrinking. But they’re also becoming more glaring, since it would have been easy for other teams to say that they won’t be firing their coaches before Week 17.

So with the Redskins reportedly keeping Jay Gruden and the Jets extending Todd Bowles and the Bucs telling Dirk Koetter he won’t be supplanted by Jon Gruden (for now), other guys are left to wonder whether they’ll be leading their teams into action for the last time.

Here’s a list of the coaches who remain on the hot seat, with no eleventh-hour effort to give them a reprieve.

Bengals coach Marvin Lewis: His contract expires after Week 17. Though he has addressed his future status and plans several times, the Bengals haven’t said a word about whether they want him back.

Colts coach Chuck Pagano: He delivered what was interpreted by some to be a farewell address this week. Ownership has said or done nothing to contradict the widespread belief that Pagano will be out after six years.

Texans coach Bill O’Brien: O’Brien has said he’s not quitting, but the Texans haven’t said they aren’t firing him. There’s a belief that O’Brien will be back without an extension on a contract with one year remaining, as each side waits for the other side to be the one to end a relationship that remains dysfunctional.

Titans coach Mike Mularkey: Some believe that a failure to make it to the playoffs means he won’t be back. The Titans have said nothing to push back against this possibility.

Raiders coach Jack Del Rio: Believed as of a week ago to be a 50-50 shot at sticking around, owner Mark Davis has not declared that Del Rio definitely will return in 2018.

Broncos coach Vance Joseph: Eight double-digit losses and four losses by 20 or more points could mean that Joseph will be one and done in Denver. G.M. John Elway has said he’ll wait until after the season before making any final decisions. A day before the finale, Joseph’s fate already may be sealed.

Bears coach John Fox: If Fox weren’t out after three disappointing seasons on the job, someone with the Bears surely would have said so by now.

Lions coach Jim Caldwell: Ownership and G.M. Bob Quinn declined to comment on Caldwell’s status after last week’s postseason-killing loss to the Bengals. Their silence since then has become even more deafening.

Not on this list is Browns coach Hue Jackson, because ownership has said publicly and privately that Jackson will be back. However, a loss on Sunday means an 0-16 season. Which could make it even easier for new G.M. John Dorsey to make a case for change.

That leaves the current list of potential new members of the FFCA at nine. With an asterisk for the surprise firing/resignation/retirement that always seems to happen.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/12/30/giants-looking-for-experienced-coach/

Giants looking for experienced coach
Posted by Mike Florio on December 30, 2017

The best way to conclude a search in the preferred destination is to set the parameters of the process accordingly. And if the Giants have predetermined that Eagles defensive coordinator Jim Schwartz will be the next head coach of the team, the best way to get there is to make it known that the Giants want to hire a coach with experience.

That’s precisely what they’ve done. Via Ralph Vacchiano of SNY, co-owner John Mara said Friday that the team is looking for a coach who has been a head coach in the past. At a minimum, the Giants want someone who “has been a coordinator for a significant period of time.”

Schwartz fits both bills, thriving as a defensive coordinator in Tennessee, Buffalo, and Philadelphia. And then there’s the fact that he coached the Lions for five years. Sure, the team went 29-52 on his watch. But he inherited an 0-16 squad that had few bright spots on it.

Vacchiano lists other potential candidate who fit the parameters, from Texans coach Bill O’Brien (if he doesn’t stay in Houston) to Patriots offensive coordinator/former Broncos coach Josh McDaniels (the thinking in league circles is that he won’t take the job if it’s offered to him) to Buccaneers defensive coordinator/former Falcons coach Mike Smith to Steelers offensive coordinator/former Chiefs coach Todd Haley (who for whatever reason can’t generate interest in a second stint) to Vikings offensive coordinator/former Browns coach Pat Shurmur (whose 9-23 record in Cleveland suddenly looks pretty damn good) to pipe-dream candidates like Jim Harbaugh and Nick Saban.

The hiring of Gettleman on Thursday means that interviews can commence as of Monday with Schwartz, McDaniels, Haley, and (if the Vikings secure the No. 2 seed in the NFC) Shurmur. Which suggests that the Giants hired Gettleman on Thursday so that they could get a jump on talking to one or more of those four. Which continues to point the compass in the stock toward Schwartz.

Of course, it’s no surprise that the Giants want a coach with experience. Most teams who have just fired a coach typically look for a replacement who is in one or more ways the opposite of the guy who just got dumped. Ben McAdoo was not previously a head coach, and he’d spent only a couple of years as a coordinator before getting the promotion.
 

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https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/12/28/nfl-black-monday-top-head-coaching-candidates-2018

The Most Popular NFL Coaching Candidates of 2018
By CONOR ORR

The lifecycle of an NFL coach can be rapid; the initial post-hire swoon is sometimes the only chance to savor a rise to one of the toughest gigs in professional sports. Likability can extend the honeymoon period by a few months, which is essential for coaches and owners looking to buy as much time as possible to instill and execute a game plan.

Coaches who have held the position before have cache, but for first-time head coaches, there is a bit of guesswork for owners making the decision. Will fans fall in love with this candidate the way we have?

To aid in that process, we at the Morning Huddle newsletter (with a huge assist from The MMQB’s KalynKahler) conducted a flash poll with the 10 first-time head coaching candidates, asking readers to vote for who they would most like to see lead their team.

Our results (736 respondents over 24 hours) show a surprising amount of open-mindedness considering that some candidates have received far more publicity than others. A special teams coordinator finished near the top while some of the most accomplished—and maybe obvious—candidates finished near the bottom:

1. Matt Patricia, defensive coordinator, New England Patriots (33.7%, 248 votes)
2. John DeFilippo, quarterbacks coach, Philadelphia Eagles (13.6%, 100 votes)
3. Dave Toub, special teams coordinator, Kansas City Chiefs (13.2%, 97 votes)
4. Mike Vrabel, defensive coordinator, Houston Texans (12.9%, 95 votes)
5. Matt Nagy, offensive coordinator, Kansas City Chiefs (7.9%, 58 votes)
6. George Edwards, defensive coordinator, Minnesota Vikings (6.7%, 49 votes)
7. Teryl Austin, defensive coordinator, Detroit Lions (4.1%, 30 votes)
8. Steve Wilks, defensive coordinator, Carolina Panthers (3.0%, 22 votes)
8. Kris Richard, defensive coordinator, Seattle Seahawks (3.0%, 22 votes)
10. Harold Goodwin, offensive coordinator, Arizona Cardinals (2.0%, 15 votes)

Some thoughts: I think it’s significant to see fans willing to accept a special teams coordinator; a changing of perception could be on the way…It’s crazy how low Steve Wilks is on this list given that he’ll be a hot candidate for the Giants opening now that Dave Gettleman is in place…The popularity of the Patriots assistant never wanes, but is Matt Patricia a different breed?
 

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Schwartz fits both bills, thriving as a defensive coordinator in Tennessee, Buffalo, and Philadelphia. And then there’s the fact that he coached the Lions for five years. Sure, the team went 29-52 on his watch. But he inherited an 0-16 squad that had few bright spots on it.

Buccaneers defensive coordinator/former Falcons coach Mike Smith to Steelers offensive coordinator/former Chiefs coach Todd Haley (who for whatever reason can’t generate interest in a second stint) to Vikings offensive coordinator/former Browns coach Pat Shurmur (whose 9-23 record in Cleveland suddenly looks pretty damn good) to pipe-dream candidates like Jim Harbaugh and Nick Saban.

Excellent observations as I'm very close to the Giants scenario for obvious reasons (location, location, location)...Here is the dealio.....IMO, Jim Schwartz would be an excellent hire, he's a top DC and was able to bring the Lions to post season for the first time since the 90's, but his overall record of 29-52 would be a very tough sell to the masses, whereas Mike Smith who IMO is not as good of a candidate and not even close to as good as a DC was 66-46, but 1-4 in the playoffs and in his last two years Smith was 10-22 in Atlanta...Pat Shurmur would get some buzz, hwoever, 9-23 is still a tough sell even though it was Cleveland...Bill Beliechick when he was in Cleveland had a record of 29-34 easier sell similar to Todd Haley, who had a record of 19-26 a little easier sell, but must really be tough to get along with because Haley is never mentioned

So again this is what you face as a GM, I would defiantly entertain giving Schwartz another opportunity, but the fan base and social media will crush you, but you have to hire the right guy, regardless of the fall out and just ensure he has a plan for a good OC or DC based on what side of the ball he coaches. IMO, the perfect fit for the Giants would be Bill O'Brien, he fits Gettleman's persona both with that Boston Brogue & attitude and I believe a change of scenery would do wonders for O'Brien and the Texans, but one of them has to blink.
 

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Ok, but Hue's gotta take a stand with his QB and stick with it.

He really jerked DeShone Kizer around this year. Only way to find out if Kizer's got the goods is to leave him in there, and don't be so quick with the hook when the kid struggles....and he's gonna struggle a bit at first.
Kinda true....I like snatching guys for silly mistakes tho...especially young QB's....in a rebuilding year....snatching Kizer for picks, fumbles...fuckups...will make him better in the long run...I wouldn't be surprised if he's starting next year with Sam Darnold as his backup...Darnolds not ready yet...Kizer is the youngest starting QB....a lil behind Watson....I'm guessing....and Goff.
Cleveland, finally, has a bunch of talent again.
Wow the Jets surprised me there, keeping Bowles around. That's a really good move, now go get that dude some damn talent, starting at QB.
I'm telling you, Hackenberg can throw that rock...I hope he gets a lil action tomorrow.
 

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Raiders had the easiest schedule in the league last year and carr played over his head. they came back to earth that's all.
Lost that OC...can't remember his name atm...hold up...Bill Mustgrave....New guy doesn't know shit...

They've played horribly...against weak teams this year....and beat the Chiefs...too up in down to be talent...it's coaching...my ole buddy Ken didn't know what he was doing at DC....I woulda moved Khalil Mack to ILB....yeah...I think I know more than them....that's not for you Jim....but "the others"....LOL....

Watch the bounce back Carr has...Cooper has...Crabtree has....and Lynch has....they still have one of the best offensive lines in the league...oh yeah...they also have....wait for it...Jared Cook....LOL
 

LACHAMP46

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I remember the days of Larry Marmie and how the defense played under Tim Walton
I'd have to search records of Larry...who, Marmie....didn't even know he coached...

That will let you know how much Fish either knew his job was safe....or was so insecure, he couldn't bring himself to hire a guy with a pulse...kinda like Jack Del Rio throwing Norton a bone....Maybe he thought Marmie could learn from him??? My only question is, was Fisher EVER a good DC???????? Ever?

I had heard of Tim Walton...think he was in Detroit...and I kept wondering, why the fuck would we want any coaches from Detroit????? Did he coach the DB's there?

And.....I gotta say this....Fisher ISN'T CLUELESS.....HE DID THIS DIRECTLY FOR SOME REASON....CAN'T TELL ME HE DIDN'T.

Of course Williams looks like a genius compared to....Marmie...I still can't put a face to that name. LOL
 

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I'd have to search records of Larry...who, Marmie....didn't even know he coached...
of

Larry Marmie was defensive coordinator under Mike Martz for two years 2004 & 2005 and the defense regressed significantly, it led to the undoing of the Martz regime. Under Fisher, he had hired Gregg Williams in his first season 2012, but Williams was suspended because of bounty game and they turn the controls over to his Blake, who was the Linebacker coach and after the season, Fisher chose not to bring back Gregg and ffired his son Blake as well that led to a rift between Fisher & Williams that was amended in 2014. However, Fisher hired Tim Walton as DC in 2013 and the defense was not as good until there was rumors that Fisher took over the play calling.

Fisher did the right thing defensively, he fired Walton who was over his head amended his relationship with Williams, who was working as a defensive consultant for the Titans in 2013. Williams finally took control of the Ram defense in 2014 and IMO, was a very good DC, much better than Walton that's for sure.
 

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IMO, here are a few names to take over in Green Bay.
  1. Rex Ryan (ESPN Analyst) Rex IMO not that good at his current job and if they allow him to bring his brother Rob as Secondary Coach and that might just seal the deal and give Green Bay one of the better DC's ever.
  2. Mike Trgovac - Packers defensive line coach Internal Hire Trgovac has experience as an NFL defensive coordinator and was successful at it. He was the Panthers defensive coordinator from 2003-2008 before joining the Packers, and his group was ranked in the Top 10 in both yards and points allowed three times.
  3. Marion Hobby (Jaguars DL Coach) Hobby is in his first season as the Jaguars defensive line coach and they currently lead the NFL in sacks with 35. In 2016, Hobby was the co-defensive coordinator at Clemson and helped the team win a national title.
Jeff Fisher
 

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That Marmie/Martz connection stemmed from their days at ASU when Marmie was the DC and Martz the offensive assistant.
 

den-the-coach

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That Marmie/Martz connection stemmed from their days at ASU when Marmie was the DC and Martz the offensive assistant.

And then Marmie was the Head Coach and gave Martz his first shot at being Offensive Coordinator. Martz wanted Marmie after he fired Peter Giunta (2001), but thankfully the Cardinals denied permission and the Rams hired Buccaneer LB Coach Lovie Smith instead. Somewhat similar to McVay reaching out to the Dolphins after he was hired for permission to hire Chris Foerster as OL/OC, but the Dolphins were denied permission which led to the hiring of Aaron Kromer as OL Coach as I believe bringing on Matt LaFleur in some capacity was always in the works.
 

den-the-coach

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I can't believe they kept Koetter. Dude is not enough a leader to run that team with a cocky SOB like Winston (who I like btw). He's a coach who translates well with the ownership, but not the players.

And that's fine by me, I enjoy watching the Bucs suck @$$.

I was actually shocked they hired Koetter as Head Coach, he did not do well in college either, but him and Winston get along really well and once again the Buccaneers were afraid of losing Koetter because he was on many short lists so they fired Lovie Smith in order to keep Dirk Koetter and elevated him to Head Coach....This has happened before and I can recall three times where it never ended well....The Kansas City Chiefs in 1986 after making the playoffs for the first time since 1971 decided to Fire Head Coach John Makovic because of a player revolt over the resignation of Special Teams Coach Frank Ganz...The players went to owner's Lamar Hunt's house led by Kicker Nick Lowery to plead with him to keep Ganz because how great the special team unit was and how much the players loved playing for the Marine....Hunt listened to his players fired Makovic and elevated Ganz to Head Coach, in which in 1987 & 88 the team responded to Ganz going 8-22-1 leading to his departure and Lamar Hunt understanding to never listen to the players.

After the 1982 Season, which saw the New York Jets go to a conference championship and lose, the Jets were worried about losing their Offensive Coordinator Joe Walton to the Falcons as Head Coach. Walt Michaels who had been the Jet Head Coach since 1977 and who had guided the Jets to two straight winning seasons had a little too much to drink on the flight home form losing to the Dolphins and Jet ownership used that as leverage to oust Michaels and elevate Walton who had been responsible for a record setting offense, Walton did last seven years, but never got the Jets to the AFC Conference Championship during his time and of course now Dirk Koetter.

Teams have done this in past and usually not working out well, it did not happen with the Rams, they had Martz under contract with the caveat that he would take over for Vermeil after Vermeil's contract ended, which would have been the 2001 season, but Vermeil made a quick judgment that he had accomplished what he wanted and made the emotional decision to go out on top, only to realize he made a mistake and came back to the Chiefs to work under his good friend Carl Peterson.