Melvin Gordon: Pay Me or Trade Me

[Selassie I]

He's trying to get blood out of a turnip if he's asking for Spanos to pay him. LOL

 

[oldnotdead]

You need a decent oline in front of you to run 4 yards per carry consistently. I've followed the Chargers having lived in San Diego since the mid 80's until a couple of years ago. I can tell you that their oline has always been crap. They draft guys like Tevi who is their starting RT (i.e. the primary run side of most teams). More than one pro scouting service had an UDFA grade on him. He still is inconsistent. Before Tevi they had Barksdale....a failed ex-Ram.

Their RG Schofield was cut by Denver as an OT and moved inside to OG. He's a better OG than OT but he still not what you want at RG if you want to run. He isn't going to give you much drive. He's a lot like Blythe in that regard. The Chargers run primarily an inside zone run attack. Depending upon the oline call and the defensive alignment the RG will have to block either the NT or 3T. If you don't get strong play from both the RG and RT that play will fail forcing the RB to look for another gap.

Bad oline play has plagued the Chargers for years. During River's down years it was the primary cause. So to blame Gordon for his so called mediocre play isn't realistic. Why do you think he was hurt so much. Rivers has gotten really beat up behind Charger lines for years.

IMO Gordon sees an opportunity to get out from under inept team management. I just hope he doesn't come to the NFCW because he's far better than his stats. There are probably at least half a dozen teams on the phone for Gordon because they have seen what I've seen.

 

[12intheBox]

I don’t think I would pay him if I were SD. And I’m not sure there will be much of a trade market out there. Go ahead and sit out, Melvin.

 

[Loyal]

I don’t think I would pay him if I were SD. And I’m not sure there will be much of a trade market out there. Go ahead and sit out, Melvin.

Yes! I hate-support him! :rockon:

 

[Selassie I]

You need a decent oline in front of you to run 4 yards per carry consistently. I've followed the Chargers having lived in San Diego since the mid 80's until a couple of years ago. I can tell you that their oline has always been crap. They draft guys like Tevi who is their starting RT (i.e. the primary run side of most teams). More than one pro scouting service had an UDFA grade on him. He still is inconsistent. Before Tevi they had Barksdale....a failed ex-Ram.

Their RG Schofield was cut by Denver as an OT and moved inside to OG. He's a better OG than OT but he still not what you want at RG if you want to run. He isn't going to give you much drive. He's a lot like Blythe in that regard. The Chargers run primarily an inside zone run attack. Depending upon the oline call and the defensive alignment the RG will have to block either the NT or 3T. If you don't get strong play from both the RG and RT that play will fail forcing the RB to look for another gap.

Bad oline play has plagued the Chargers for years. During River's down years it was the primary cause. So to blame Gordon for his so called mediocre play isn't realistic. Why do you think he was hurt so much. Rivers has gotten really beat up behind Charger lines for years.

IMO Gordon sees an opportunity to get out from under inept team management. I just hope he doesn't come to the NFCW because he's far better than his stats. There are probably at least half a dozen teams on the phone for Gordon because they have seen what I've seen.

We hold Barksdale in high regard here at ROD. He did a few Q&A's with us here... you can find them if you go to our main page.

Hey... he may not have worked out for the Rams, but he was starting quality for Spanos' wallet. Seems right to me.

 

[Kevin]

RB second contracts are a catch 22. Hard to pay top dollar when they are more prone to injury after taking four or five years of hits. Gordon has not been great while missing games. I think he should play while taking the $5.6 Million. A good healthy year and he gets a nice two/three year deal somewhere. I don't think he has a lot of leverage nor can he make up that amount of money.

Austin Ekeler, Detrez Newsome, Justin Jackson and Troymaine Pope are decent depth.

https://www.chargers.com/team/depth-chart

Second contracts for feature RBs like Gordon are determined by the market, not whether his stats are equal to or better than Gurley's and is subjectively worth a big contract. It's the same discussion we had about Goff's next contract and whether it would average more or less than Wentz' new contract. Gordon should get about the same money that Devonta Freeman got from the Falcons in his second contract, around 5 years and $42 million.

 

[Merlin]

Sorry in 4 years he's not had a single season that should make a team want to pay him that kind of money. If you don't have a Gurley, Barkley, Kamara or Elliot draft a new guy mid rounds about every year. Sorry I don't understand what world a guy who can't run for 4 yards every time he touches the ball would have earned being the 4th highest paid RB in the league.

If I was a GM the running back position is one I would not pay big money for, generally speaking. If from there you get an insanely good difference maker, then of course it's worth consideration and I'd keep the length of contract quite short like no more than 3x years. Gurley demonstrates the danger of paying these guys, their position just comes with too much danger of sudden career-ending injury.

The by-committee approach is the way to go with this position. You can find them outside the first round in every draft, I think it makes a lot of sense as a business approach to load this position with young guys who have different skill sets (a 4 deep roster at the position for myself would have 2x passing game weapon types and 2x types who can handle 20+ carries a game).

 

[CGI_Ram]

If I was a GM the running back position is one I would not pay big money for, generally speaking.

My philosophy as well.

 

[Ram65]

Second contracts for feature RBs like Gordon are determined by the market, not whether his stats are equal to or better than Gurley's and is subjectively worth a big contract. It's the same discussion we had about Goff's next contract and whether it would average more or less than Wentz' new contract. Gordon should get about the same money that Devonta Freeman got from the Falcons in his second contract, around 5 years and $42 million.

I did't mention Gurley but, the Rams did take a big risk with his new contract.

Freeman and Gordon are a perfect examples of first round pick vs forth round pick and second contracts.

Freeman gets an early extension before year four because he becomes a free agent after year four. While the Chargers can keep Gordon for five years without an extension. After a total of six years the Falcons can cut Freeman and take a $6 Million cap hit or seven years and take a $3 Million cap hit. The Falcons took a $6.750 cap hit last year for a grand total of 64 carries for Freeman. That is part of the risk with big second RB contacts. Because of the CBA you have two different situations. The Chargers may not feel Gordon is worth a big investment after the fifth year. I was in the Bell camp last year but, now can see the big risk with high priced RBs. Some have been able to stay health for many years while others can't. Gordon has a record of health issues. You just never know.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Devonta+Freeman+stats&gs_ivs=1#tts=0
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/atlanta-falcons/devonta-freeman-14514/

 

[Kevin]

I did't mention Gurley but, the Rams did take a big risk with his new contract.

Freeman and Gordon are a perfect examples of first round pick vs forth round pick and second contracts.

View attachment 29348



View attachment 29349

Freeman gets an early extension before year four because he becomes a free agent after year four. While the Chargers can keep Gordon for five years without an extension. After a total of six years the Falcons can cut Freeman and take a $6 Million cap hit or seven years and take a $3 Million cap hit. The Falcons took a $6.750 cap hit last year for a grand total of 64 carries for Freeman. That is part of the risk with big second RB contacts. Because of the CBA you have two different situations. The Chargers may not feel Gordon is worth a big investment after the fifth year. I was in the Bell camp last year but, now can see the big risk with high priced RBs. Some have been able to stay health for many years while others can't. Gordon has a record of health issues. You just never know.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Devonta+Freeman+stats&gs_ivs=1#tts=0
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/atlanta-falcons/devonta-freeman-14514/

Thanks, yeah, sorry, I just wanted to follow up on your comment about the market for starters coming into their 2nd contracts and get away from the circular argument about what Gordon is worth.

 

[oldnotdead]

Barksdale was a revolving door in San Diego. The dude was terrible but the FO considered him the best of the oline!!! I can't tell you how many times the RB got hit immediately after getting the handoff and many times it was via Barky.

Currently the Charger oline grades out in the bottom third of the NFL. The only two home grown players are RT Tevi and LG Dan Freeney and both grade out way below average. Freeney is basically a scrub by most reviewers.

So putting things into context it's amazing what Gordon has done despite being handicapped by a substandard oline blocking for him. It also brings into context his demand to be traded. He doesn't want to be like Rivers and play his whole career on a loser team.

Also the Chargers have a long history of not wanting to pay their stars. Seau, Rodney Harrison, even Tomlinson to name a few. Guys like Melvin Ingram knows he won't get another contract after 2020 and will move on. Keenan Allen might not return after 2020 as well. Joey Bosa will be a UFA after 2020 as well. Philip Rivers himself is currently in a contract year. He's already publicly said he plans retiring before 2022.

The clock is ticking on the Chargers. They will be a shell of the team they are now after 2021.

 

[CGI_Ram]

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...ation-could-get-even-uglier-for-the-chargers/

Here's why the Melvin Gordon situation could get even uglier for the Chargers

Chargers running back Melvin Gordon has already threatened to sit out all of training camp if he doesn't get a new deal, but as it turns out, things could actually get uglier for Los Angeles if the two sides don't get a contract done before the start of the regular season.

During an interview with SiriusXM NFL Radio this week, Fletcher Smith (one of Gordon's agents) was asked if his client would be prepared to sit out the entire regular season and based on Smith's answer, it appears that Gordon is going to play some serious hardball in negotiations.

"Oh, he's prepared to sit," Smith said. "We'll take it day by day, week by week and see how things go, but at this time, if he can't get anything done, he certainly won't be in training camp, and he's prepared to sit as long as he has to."

The Chargers should probably take that threat pretty seriously and that's because it's not the first time Gordon has hinted that he'd be willing to sit out a season in order to get a contract he views as fair. During an interview last year, Gordon was talking about the Le'Veon Bell situation with his dad and the Chargers running back noted that he would also sit out a year if he were ever in a situation similar to Bell's.

As things currently stand, Gordon is headed into the final year of his rookie deal, which is scheduled to pay him a total of $5.6 million in base salary in 2019. Although it's not clear what Gordon's asking price is in a potential new contract, it's pretty clear the Chargers haven't come anywhere close to meeting it.
Damarius Bilbo, one of Gordon's other agents, told NFL.com this week that Gordon has felt "disrespected" by the Chargers' offers.

"If we'd gotten a respectable offer, we wouldn't be here," Bilbo said. "But he felt disrespected. He's very serious."

Gordon is coming off a highly efficient season where he ranked fifth in the NFL in total touchdowns with 14, despite missing four games. Gordon, who finished the season 885 rushing yards, averaged 5.1 yards per carry in 2018, which was more than any of the NFL's top three leaders in rushing yards: Ezekiel Elliott (4.7), Saquon Barkley (5.0) and Todd Gurley (4.9).

Gordon was drafted in 2015, the same year as Gurley and David Johnson, and it kind of sounds like he'd like to get a deal similar to one of those two backs. Gurley received a four-year, $60 million deal in July 2018 while Johnson inked a three-year, $39 million contract in September.

"I know my value," Gordon said in June. "I know what I bring to this team, and I'm sticking with that. Todd's paid, so Todd don't care what anybody says right now -- him or David Johnson -- they can say what they want to say. They signed the dotted line. But unfortunately I haven't yet, so I've got to take the heat for some of the stuff that they're going through. But I'm not them, and like I said, I know my value."

The fact that the Chargers are hesitant to give Gordon a new deal likely boils down to two things: Teams aren't willing to overpay at the running back position anymore and Gordon has a history of injuries.

After watching the Gurley situation unfold across town, it's not crazy to think that the Chargers have some doubts about giving a contract to a running back in Gordon who's missed nine games over his first four seasons.

According to Smith, Gordon's plan is to stay in Los Angeles, but if the Chargers won't give him fair compensation, then the running back wants to be traded.

"We'll see how it plays out," Smith said. "Maybe he ends up, stays where he is, right there in Los Angeles. There's nothing to suggest that he does not want to be there. He just wants to be compensated. He'd love to stay [with the Chargers], assuming we can get something done. If we can't, he's prepared to move."

The thing about a trade is that there's not a huge market out there of teams looking to overpay for a running back, and Bell's a good example of that. When the former Steelers running back hit free agency, there weren't exactly a lot of teams bidding on his services. In the end, he got a four-year, $52.5 million deal with the Jets that included $27 million in guaranteed money.

If Gordon's situation does come down to a trade, Smith is confident that there will be at least one team out there willing to give the 26-year-old the contract he's looking for.

"Some teams are more creative than others. All we need is one team," Smith said. "For those teams that have a running back, but maybe he's not the back that they need, maybe trade a player and a pick. Right now, I don't know, because we have not been empowered to talk to other teams to discuss a trade, but all you need is one trade partner."

With Gordon and the Chargers locked in a stalemate, this seems like a situation that's only going to get uglier as the season approaches. In the end, the Chargers might be forced to do what the Raiders did with Khalil Mackand just trade him away to the highest bidder.

 

[RamDino]

I'd trade him.

 

[Ram65]

"I know my value," Gordon said in June. "I know what I bring to this team, and I'm sticking with that. Todd's paid, so Todd don't care what anybody says right now -- him or David Johnson -- they can say what they want to say. They signed the dotted line. But unfortunately I haven't yet, so I've got to take the heat for some of the stuff that they're going through. But I'm not them, and like I said, I know my value."

I don't get what he is referring to TG and DJ them not caring etc..

Hard for the Chargers to ignore RBs that get big contracts and get hurt or are slowed down like Gurley.

Gordon was drafted in 2015, the same year as Gurley and David Johnson, and it kind of sounds like he'd like to get a deal similar to one of those two backs. Gurley received a four-year, $60 million deal in July 2018 while Johnson inked a three-year, $39 million contract in September.

The fact that the Chargers are hesitant to give Gordon a new deal likely boils down to two things: Teams aren't willing to overpay at the running back position anymore and Gordon has a history of injuries.

According to Smith, Gordon's plan is to stay in Los Angeles, but if the Chargers won't give him fair compensation, then the running back wants to be traded.

We don't know what's wrong with Gurley but, he was slowed down at the end of last year.
Freeman was hurt last year.
McKinnon got hurt early last year.

Fournette has trouble staying on the field.
Johnson didn't help the Cardinals win with his high priced new deal.

.
It's unfortunate but, teams can't ignore the elephant in the room that running backs get hurt more than any other position and have less years of productivity in most cases. I imagine it's not a greet offer considering everything including the Chargers are c a bit cheap. Off the top of my head I can't think of any teams in contention for a SB that needs a RB. Could wait and see about an injury for a trade. Unless a trade can be made I think Gordon will not be playing this year.

 

[den-the-coach]

Hoping TGIII comes back strong because I believe the extraordinary should always get paid regardless of the position and every other position is becoming less physical, with the exception of running back, but Gurley has ruined it to a degree right now. Gurley is the right age and deserved an extention and I'm glad the Rams are doing right by their players, but owners might be less likely to pay for this position and ensuring organizations draft one every year.

Gordon is an excellent back when healthy and he can do it all, however, there is a ton of tread on those tires playing at Wisconsin and the Charger owner does not have the greatest history when it comes to dollars & Cents. Overall, if they trade Gordon, it makes them weaker and it would make another team stronger, but because of the Gurley situation, if Gurley continues to be less of himself, he will be the reason teams don't pay running backs, just like he was the reason teams started to draft running backs higher.

 

[kurtfaulk]

It's unfortunate but, teams can't ignore the elephant in the room that running backs get hurt more than any other position and have less years of productivity in most cases. I imagine it's not a greet offer considering everything including the Chargers are c a bit cheap. Off the top of my head I can't think of any teams in contention for a SB that needs a RB. Could wait and see about an injury for a trade. Unless a trade can be made I think Gordon will not be playing this year.

gordon will go the vincent jackson route and return after week 10 so this year is counted for his contract so he can hit free agency next season. then we'll see what happens if the chargers tag him.

.

 

[rams1fan]

Chargers should trade him. Just like the Steelers should have traded Bell. Tampa Bay could use him.

 

[SteezyEndo]

Once Rivers leaves its up to Easton Stick to take the reigns. I think the Chargers have been doing hella decent for such a long time. Like they never stooped to the level of the Browns, they stayed afloat. Melvin Gordon be a fool to leave. Chargers are due.

 

[shovelpass]

I think we all saw this coming.

 

[dang]

I get the feeling Gordon means business. Chargers either need to give him a new contract or find a team (like the Colts) who are willing to trade for and pay him. The Chargers could get someone like Marlon Mack and a 2nd round pick for Gordon.