Kromer

[PARAM]

I'm not a Jamil Demby fan but after much discussion about him yesterday, I rewatched the SF game where he came in for Noteboom. He was not the problem. In fact, he drove his man off the ball frequently. His pass pro was inconsistent (which is probably why he lower on the depth chart) but the biggest problem in that game seemed to between Allen and Blythe.

At this point in the off season, I'd hope they throw out the depth chart. Give everybody reps when camp starts and keep the best 9 or 10 guys, regardless of last year. Of course Noteboom and Allen will probably be PUP and when they're healthy they can decide who comes off when they go on.

 

[Memphis Ram]

changing your tune now. I told you that you aren't convincing me of anything. I saw what the coaches rolled with to begin the season. It was terrible. Did they not make those decisions? It's not like they hadn't seen these guys practice. To make it worse Demby was the first guy off the bench. Evans, Edwards, or even Brewer were better choices. And McVay went to the rollouts and misdirection because he had little choice. He didn't invent the idea though. In fact several posters on this forum were asking why he wasn't doing that very thing, weeks before he did. The movement helped a good QB get the ball to some very good receivers. The team is not devoid of talent. Donald, Ramsey, Kupp, Woods, Goff. They should be close to playoffs. They don't have a roster like Cinncinnati or Miami.

Changing my tune? What on earth are you talking about here? My opinion or argument hasn't changed at all.

I saw what the coaches rolled in with to being this season and the season prior. It was a noticeable downgrade. Of course, I also saw how healthy the OLine starters were the prior two seasons compared to this one which played a role in it's success/failure, but I digress.

And with changes in frequency throughout his tenure, rollouts & misdirection have been apart of the offense since McVay's arrival. And I'd be willing to bet that he didn't visit this forum for the idea. The majority of his offense is based upon causing confusion for opposing defenses.

The team not being devoid of talent which should be close to making the playoffs? With the 31st ranked offensive line? So when they say that wins and losses start in the trenches, they just means the defensive trenches? Or is it that offensive line play now a vastly overrated measure in the success of teams? Well should we now expect teams not devoid of talent, who are one slot away from having the worst Oline in the NFL to be close to playoff contention regularly? Even with a defense that is middle of the pack in points allowed and without a top the special teams unit? Doesn't take outstanding coaching at all. You'd be better off going with just plan luck.

Now that's flamboyance & theatrics.

BTW, you still haven't answered what the offensive lines ranking was in the latter part of the season when Snead, McVay, and many others saw improvement.

 

[PARAM]

T / Whitworth, Havenstein, Noteboom, Evans, Demby
G / Edwards, Anchrum, Brewer, Kolone, Corbett
C / Blythe, Allen, Shelton, Trewyn, Cabral

I'm not worried about how they play them in PS, as long as they play them. Anchrum can also play T as can Edwards. They have the bodies to move guys around. I would imagine the only guys who won't be unseated are Whitworth at T. Every other position is up for grabs IMO. And they should be, including LT.

 

[Memphis Ram]

If anyone is angry it's him. I was laughing when I replied to him. The argument itself is just inane. The line was bad last year. Everyone saw it. I don't care if they were 31 or 26, they were bad. I don't even know what his point is outside of telling me I'm wrong and that the Oline was good and the coaches are geniuses for their choices. He can think what he wants, so can you but there's no reason to yell at me over it. When the Rams Oline moves up in the rankings because they are actually a good unit, I'll be fine with it. Elated actually. I love when the Rams have a very good offensive line. But until then, the only proof of their ability that we can go by is last season.

Wow. I just read this and I now understand the disconnect. You have completely misread my point of view from the start as not one thing here is accurate.

I never said that the Oline was good. I said that they improved at the end of the year. AND I questioned the so-called 31st ranking you have promoted and held on to until this last post.

I don't believe that the coaches are geniuses for their choices. But, I do believe it takes an outstanding coaching effort to have the success they had with an OLine as bad (31st rank) as you continually claim.

And I've not been angry one bit with this exchange. But, I have been confused as to your take as to what it takes for this team to finish one FG away from playoff contention with just about the worst (31st ranked) OLine in the entire league, which I believe to be impossible. <<<-------- My point.

 

[Rams43]

To claim that the Ram OL finished the season as the 31st ranked OL is misleading because of lack of context.

 

[PARAM]

What I find remarkable is PFF lists the 2019 L.A. Rams as 9th best team in the league. How did we do that with the 31st offensive line? It doesn't seem possible. That right there tells me something ain't koser with PFF. I was never really big on "rankings" to begin with but I'm even less impressed with PFF's ranking being taken as gospel.

 

[MachS]

Well if you're okay with Shelton, Brewer, or Demby starting for us, then you're crazy. UDFA level talent trying to protect a $94M QB and trying to block guys like Bosa, Kinlaw, chandler Jones, Bruce Irvin, isaah simmons. Like I've said 40 times and I'll say it again, if we drafted a rookie interior OL, they would get the nod over these guys that should never, ever see the field. We need more talent up front, not just bodies. I really don't see how anyone argues against that point.

You can sing the praises of brewer and shelton all you want. The guys didn't even have enough talent to get drafted lmao. It's actually a joke they are the first men up if there's an injury.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

2016-2018 Kromer was a genius?
2019 he’s a bum?

Did he somehow forget to coach in the last year? Or were there other factors like injuries and player inconsistency involved like starting rookies?

I don’t know, sounds like a mystery to me. Going to have to add this to the Bermuda Triangle, sasquatch, and Loch Ness Monster pile and hope we figure this mystery out one day.

The issue that many of us have is that the line was at its worst before the injuries. So his starting offensive line, the guys he picked and where he chose to play them is all on him. The run game is on him too. From the way it sounds, McVay likes to let his coaches coach. So Kromer, put Blythe at RG, Allen at Center, Noteboom at LG. That was a disastrous alignment and choice of personnel. Then he had Demby coming off the bench. Maybe he felt the new guys weren’t ready, but could they have been any worse? It’s like Memphis pointed out earlier. Kromer’s good lines all were in situations where he inherited, or his team signed, some very good veterans. This idea that he can turn nobodies into good players is a myth imo. It’s much easier to hide a mediocre to bad player in between two very good vets. His line in 2017-18 was boosted by Whit and Sullivan but also had Havenstein and Saffold. Blythe looked better than he was thanks to this, but good teams exploited him. This goes back to what @Merlin and I both agree on. To have a very good Oline you need a few above average to very good players in the mix. The Rams don’t currently have that. Maybe a few develop but a developing player is not the same as a seasoned Vet, or instant All pro.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

What I find remarkable is PFF lists the 2019 L.A. Rams as 9th best team in the league. How did we do that with the 31st offensive line? It doesn't seem possible. That right there tells me something ain't koser with PFF. I was never really big on "rankings" to begin with but I'm even less impressed with PFF's ranking being taken as gospel.

Throw the rankings out then. What did you see? I saw improvement once Edwards and Evans were inserted but the line still had its warts. And much of that improvement came once McVay started to go with Rollouts and misdirection more.

Did McVay do that because he had more confidence that the new guys could execute it more effectively? Or to make up for deficiencies? I think he new going down the stretch he had to make adjustments to try to overcome some of the lines liabilities. If so, scheme made the line look better later in the year.

 

[André]

The first men up are Evans (for tackle) and Allen (for centre and guard, because Blythe would kick over to guard). I don't know why we keep saying the others would. If Noteboom is healthy, he also goes before them. That's a third rounder, a fourth rounder and another third rounder as our primary depth.

Question the talent all you want, but I don't understand why we keep going over a situation that isn't actually the case. There is plenty to criticize that is legit, but creating a strawman to just make an argument seems a bit unnecessary.

 

[OldSchool]

Who was the best ILB we’ve had since udfa London Fletcher.

 

[FarNorth]

Maybe he felt the new guys weren’t ready, but could they have been any worse?

Yes. He could have started rookies who likely wouldn't even have properly known the playbook, the overall scheme execution required for the line, and the adjustments. That could have been truly ugly and resulted in more losses.

Kromer had lost two veteran starters and had no starting quality players with experience at those positions to replace them. There was no good hand to play. Kromer chose to start the guys with some experience and perceived upside and give them time to come together. Unfortunately, he essentially had to replace several starters twice in one season, each time with guys with much less experience.

O-line success requires continuity and experience. Injuries are routinely a key factor in whether NFL teams have successful years or not. Coaches need resources and talent in order to excel.

I do not agree with all the screaming at Kromer and denigration of his coaching ability. Neither apparently does McVay, or Kromer would have been part of the Rams' rather ruthless housecleaning. When given a reasonable hand to play Kromer has been successful, and repeatedly so.

We'll see how it goes this year. Barring more catastrophic injuries I expect significant improvement in the o-line.

 

[MachS]

Were not talking about the starting 5. We're talking about who fills in early in the season if an interior OL goes down. The answer is Brewer, Shelton, or Demby. Guys with horrible talent.

You can go ahead and tell me every UDFA in the NFL that ended up being a good player, and I'll show you the other 98% that end up working at a bowling alley.

When the most important unit on your team is being manned by UDFA or 7th round picks, thats not good. Especially coming off a year where that same unit cost us the season. And your QB has 4 years of statistical evidence showing how bad he plays under pressure. And you dont think we should have invested in OL in the middle rounds? Get real man I dont even think you believe in Shelton's, Brewer's, or Demby's talent.

 

[MachS]

The first men up are Evans (for tackle) and Allen (for centre and guard, because Blythe would kick over to guard). I don't know why we keep saying the others would. If Noteboom is healthy, he also goes before them. That's a third rounder, a fourth rounder and another third rounder as our primary depth.

Question the talent all you want, but I don't understand why we keep going over a situation that isn't actually the case. There is plenty to criticize that is legit, but creating a strawman to just make an argument seems a bit unnecessary.

I'm not talking about OT, just interior OL. And Allen will be 9 months removed from a torn ACL when the season starts. Him and Noteboom wont be ready until weeks into the season, maybe months. Why do people think they will be ready to play when the season starts? alm:

That means for the first X amount of weeks we have no legit interior depth and will be relying on Shelton, Brewer, Demby, or our 7th round rookie this year to fill that void if there's an injury. Which is precisely why we should have invested more in interior OL earlier in the draft.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

The first men up are Evans (for tackle) and Allen (for centre and guard, because Blythe would kick over to guard). I don't know why we keep saying the others would. If Noteboom is healthy, he also goes before them. That's a third rounder, a fourth rounder and another third rounder as our primary depth.

Question the talent all you want, but I don't understand why we keep going over a situation that isn't actually the case. There is plenty to criticize that is legit, but creating a strawman to just make an argument seems a bit unnecessary.

This is the biggest problem imo. You automatically go with last years starting Oline, most of which were very bad. Blythe sucks at guard. Allen sucks at Center. Noteboom sucks at guard.
I’d say Evans and Edwards played better than all three. Bringing Allen back and I setting him at Center would be insanity. The Rams have three other Centers and two potential Centers on the roster for a reason. There was initial talk of Corbett possibly being put at Center. He’s the front runner if he can unseat Blythe. Blythe has a one year deal. That’s a sign that he’s not in the long range plan. But if this staff automatically defaults Allen to Center then we need some new coaches with better judgement.

 

[André]

This is the biggest problem imo. You automatically go with last years starting Oline, most of which were very bad. Blythe sucks at guard. Allen sucks at Center. Noteboom sucks at guard.
I’d say Evans and Edwards played better than all three. Bringing Allen back and I setting him at Center would be insanity. The Rams have three other Centers and two potential Centers on the roster for a reason. There was initial talk of Corbett possibly being put at Center. He’s the front runner if he can unseat Blythe. Blythe has a one year deal. That’s a sign that he’s not in the long range plan. But if this staff automatically defaults Allen to Center then we need some new coaches with better judgement.

This is a correct argument to make (not the only argument, but an accurate one). It is fine to argue the decision to put Allen in (there are people on both sides of the debate). And you are good to argue that they should have used draft capital on a pick - I've made that argument. Personally, I'm not a fan of Blythe or Allen. I would have traded down a bit from the 57 slot and added a centre earlier than our 84. But, I'll trust in the group of coaches that put a good line together for the two years prior that didn't include injuries.

I do think Corbett has legit potential (which he may or may not reach), I like Evans and Edwards, and am comfortable with a healthy Havenstein. Big Whit will be fine for this year. I agree with a number of folks who would like to see Corbett at centre so we actually have our best five out there.

Let's just have the right arguments. Evans is first up for guard. If Allen can't go, then Evans replaces Corbett who moves to centre. I don't think Demby makes the team, much less is the first man up in any situation.

Last year was a shit show of injuries. If it happens again we are in trouble no matter what. The coaches think we'll be better, and are betting their jobs on it. They've got one more year for me to trust them. They've earned that. They get an injury mulligan. If they screw up the offensive line two years in a row that's on them.