Kromer

[kurtfaulk]

Besides, it is much nicer to set my expectations lower and be pleasantly surprised than to drink the Kool-aid, get all hyped up and be disappointed. I’m a skeptic at heart.

i'm the polar opposite of you.

i'd rather drink the kool aid and be excited about the upcoming season. i'm a big boy, i can handle disappointment. at least i can enjoy the off season this way.

.

 

[Corbin]

The issue that many of us have is that the line was at its worst before the injuries. So his starting offensive line, the guys he picked and where he chose to play them is all on him. The run game is on him too. From the way it sounds, McVay likes to let his coaches coach. So Kromer, put Blythe at RG, Allen at Center, Noteboom at LG. That was a disastrous alignment and choice of personnel. Then he had Demby coming off the bench. Maybe he felt the new guys weren’t ready, but could they have been any worse? It’s like Memphis pointed out earlier. Kromer’s good lines all were in situations where he inherited, or his team signed, some very good veterans. This idea that he can turn nobodies into good players is a myth imo. It’s much easier to hide a mediocre to bad player in between two very good vets. His line in 2017-18 was boosted by Whit and Sullivan but also had Havenstein and Saffold. Blythe looked better than he was thanks to this, but good teams exploited him. This goes back to what @Merlin and I both agree on. To have a very good Oline you need a few above average to very good players in the mix. The Rams don’t currently have that. Maybe a few develop but a developing player is not the same as a seasoned Vet, or instant All pro.

I think the biggest thing was scheme not o-line. McVay refused to adjust after that Chicago game that gave the blueprint to future D-Cords, which were later used and perfected by Bellicheat to stop our offense.

We didn’t do shit on offense until McVay started adjusting to that scheme that EVERYBODY was using against us. By that time he adjusted injuries and Rookie starters on the offense along with a broken Gurley contributed to last place o-line.

 

[PARAM]

Throw the rankings out then. What did you see? I saw improvement once Edwards and Evans were inserted but the line still had its warts. And much of that improvement came once McVay started to go with Rollouts and misdirection more.

Did McVay do that because he had more confidence that the new guys could execute it more effectively? Or to make up for deficiencies? I think he new going down the stretch he had to make adjustments to try to overcome some of the lines liabilities. If so, scheme made the line look better later in the year.

What I saw?

Early on I saw an inexperienced OL despite having two experienced tackles. They played like I'd expect. I think the lack of reps in preseason hurt. At the time I believed that "they practice together all week so they'll be fine" explanation. They weren't. But I thought their play improved against TBay, Seattle and SF (for 1 series). We' were sitting at 3-3 and should have been 4-2, maybe even 5-1 if the D stops Tampa.

Against TBay, Goff dropped back 68 times and was sacked just twice. Woods and Kupp had 22 receptions, 285 yards; Gurley, Cooks, Everett and Higbee had another 22 for 230 yards. But we only had 34 points as an offense because Goff threw 3 picks. Blame the O line? Sure, they weren't there yet. But that should be plenty to win. They put up 29 against Seattle and drove the ball close enough to win it in the end. The pass blocking improved but the run blocking was slow to get stronger. Against SF we came out pounding the ball. 7 runs @ 8 yards per and then Noteboom went down on the second series. Later, a failed 3rd and 1, then 4th and 1 from the goal line in the first half, then a fumbled pitch to Henderson on the first play of the third turned that game (as well as the injury) .

Some people have said, it was an immediate improvement when Noteboom went down. I think that improvement was already happening despite the 3 game losing streak. It's why it continued with the other 4 guys all still playing but with a rookie instead of JN. The next 3 games are against 1-5 Atlanta, 0-7 Cincinnati and BigBen-Less Pittsburgh. Did they look better? Yes. Did they play better? Sure. Not against a good D like the Steelers though. Of course two guys go down in that game so before they get to the Chicago game, they're down to two more lineman. Whitworth and Blythe were the only two who started the season and Blythe missed a game early on, a win.

So the process started all over again. Not against stellar competition again but Edwards, Corbett and Evans got better the more they played. We got another reprieve and took advantage of it, going 3-1. But those first two games the OL didn't look distinctly improved. Chicago where we scored 17 points, then Baltimore where we looked like a bad O line. But facing a quick 28-0 deficit can aid in that. Against Arizona and Seattle they looked better. I thought Evans played better, faster than the other two. And they got better as a unit, playing in 7 straight.

But looking back on the OL's season it wasn't good, mainly because of injuries and inexperience, breaking in two waves of O lineman. I thought Noteboom and Allen played better than they were credited. Inconsistent? Yes. Edwards got better but played longer (10). Havenstein and Allen played 9, Evans and Corbett 7 and Noteboom played alot less than 6 considering he went down on the second series of the SF game. The rollouts? They helped. They've been a part of the offense but not as much as they were last year. But we didn't have 2 rookies and a so-called bust from Cleveland in 2019. So they were a bigger part of the offense once the youngsters appeared, wisely. What would have been wiser is if he'd have employed that before the injuries. Were they a very good line last year? No. Were they terrible? No. On the season it was terrible because we had to break in practically 5 guys from scratch, the bust with 1 start to his credit.

Forecast? So for 2020 we get experience back with Whitworth, Havenstein and Blythe. And we get less experience with Evans, Edwards, Corbett and Allen, even less with Noteboom, when they're healthy but they've all been under fire. 3 vets and 5 guys with between 6 and 10 starts last season. Better than five first time starters including two rookies. Do I think the line is going to be better in 2020? Yes. They're going to be more experienced too. That can't hurt. I'm encouraged that the powers to be are encouraged. I hope Whitworth can start faster than last year. Havenstein too because it's hard to give up on him as he's 27 with 5 years experience. They've got Blythe, Edwards, Evans and Corbett plus the rookie Anchrum and Shelton, who saw time last year for 3 spots on the OL. Noteboom and Allen when they're healthy. If they're not ready it's PUP for 6 weeks and then 5 weeks or less to practice. So if we have any issues, I hope it doesn't occur until those two are ready.

Bottom line is this. That line, with 9 different starters played well enough to win 9 games. The line that starts this year hopefully finishes it but if there are problems I don't think we'll be in trouble nearly as much as last year. No greenhorns even at the backup positions. We have enough talent to win. Hell we won 9 games with that line discombobulated for at least 6 games. Hopeful? A little. Unreasonable? Absolutely not.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

i'm the polar opposite of you.

i'd rather drink the kool aid and be excited about the upcoming season. i'm a big boy, i can handle disappointment. at least i can enjoy the off season this way.

.

are you over or under 50?

 

[kurtfaulk]

are you over or under 50?

Just over.

I've found the forums much more enjoyable when I'm not always complaining.

.

 

[So Ram]

i'm the polar opposite of you.

i'd rather drink the kool aid and be excited about the upcoming season. i'm a big boy, i can handle disappointment. at least i can enjoy the off season this way.

.

That’s the way I am as well. —Still have to be realistic as well though.

There have been many player I’ve wanted to do well & never have stepped up.

Greg Robinson was a perfect example of WTF are you going to do ???

I wanted The Rams to trade back. The Offensive Line RIGHT NOW in my belief has never been better than say the doughnuts first season ??

 

[PARAM]

Were not talking about the starting 5. We're talking about who fills in early in the season if an interior OL goes down. The answer is Brewer, Shelton, or Demby. Guys with horrible talent.

You can go ahead and tell me every UDFA in the NFL that ended up being a good player, and I'll show you the other 98% that end up working at a bowling alley.

When the most important unit on your team is being manned by UDFA or 7th round picks, thats not good. Especially coming off a year where that same unit cost us the season. And your QB has 4 years of statistical evidence showing how bad he plays under pressure. And you dont think we should have invested in OL in the middle rounds? Get real man I dont even think you believe in Shelton's, Brewer's, or Demby's talent.

I'm not talking about OT, just interior OL. And Allen will be 9 months removed from a torn ACL when the season starts. Him and Noteboom wont be ready until weeks into the season, maybe months. Why do people think they will be ready to play when the season starts? alm:

That means for the first X amount of weeks we have no legit interior depth and will be relying on Shelton, Brewer, Demby, or our 7th round rookie this year to fill that void if there's an injury. Which is precisely why we should have invested more in interior OL earlier in the draft.

This is the biggest problem imo. You automatically go with last years starting Oline, most of which were very bad. Blythe sucks at guard. Allen sucks at Center. Noteboom sucks at guard.
I’d say Evans and Edwards played better than all three. Bringing Allen back and I setting him at Center would be insanity. The Rams have three other Centers and two potential Centers on the roster for a reason. There was initial talk of Corbett possibly being put at Center. He’s the front runner if he can unseat Blythe. Blythe has a one year deal. That’s a sign that he’s not in the long range plan. But if this staff automatically defaults Allen to Center then we need some new coaches with better judgement.

So the worry is injuries? And yet last year because of injuries the O line was influx much of the year..........and the line sucked >>>>>> having no talent? Yet the team finished 9-7 and by any realistic estimation should have been 10-6 (with an easy kick from Z), could have been 11-5 (if the defense could have stopped the East Jabumfook Buccaneers or two 3rd and 16's against SF). So I guess had we enjoyed a healthy year along the O line, we wouldn't have had the proverbial superbowl hangover and probably returned to the big game, despite a no talent O line?

Here's who they probably have lined up for starters:
Whitworth, Edwards, Blythe, Evans and Havenstein

Here's who they probably have lined up for reserves:
Corbett C/G, Shelton C, Demby G/T, Brewer, G and Anchrum G/T (if they all make the squad, otherwise Kolone or Cabral)
This is assuming Noteboom and Allen aren't ready and start the year on PUP (6 weeks of no practice; up to 5 weeks of practice after that)

I agree, injuries are a concern, particularly after last year. It can wreak havoc on an O line, regardless of how talented they might be. But this year, we won't have a bunch of inexperienced greenhorns nervous about playing if needed. I disagree we don't have the talent necessary.

 

[So Ram]

So the worry is injuries? And yet last year because of injuries the O line was influx much of the year..........and the line sucked >>>>>> having no talent? Yet the team finished 9-7 and by any realistic estimation should have been 10-6 (with an easy kick from Z), could have been 11-5 (if the defense could have stopped the East Jabumfook Buccaneers or two 3rd and 16's against SF). So I guess had we enjoyed a healthy year along the O line, we wouldn't have had the proverbial superbowl hangover and probably returned to the big game, despite a no talent O line?

Here's who they probably have lined up for starters:
Whitworth, Edwards, Blythe, Evans and Havenstein

Here's who they probably have lined up for reserves:
Corbett C/G, Shelton C, Demby G/T, Brewer, G and Anchrum G/T (if they all make the squad, otherwise Kolone or Cabral)
This is assuming Noteboom and Allen aren't ready and start the year on PUP (6 weeks of no practice; up to 5 weeks of practice after that)

I agree, injuries are a concern, particularly after last year. It can wreak havoc on an O line, regardless of how talented they might be. But this year, we won't have a bunch of inexperienced greenhorns nervous about playing if needed. I disagree we don't have the talent necessary.

I don’t know how you can say Corbett losses his starting job ?? I think your way off there.

Under what Pretents.

 

[PARAM]

I don’t know how you can say Corbett losses his starting job ?? I think your way off there.

Under what Pretents.

You want Corbett at RG and Evans as the first backup, then very little has changed in the depth of the line. I happen to think Evans is the best of those 3 (Edwards, Corbett, Evans) and looked better, faster than either of them. My point is, they have options if somebody goes down before Noteboom and Allen return. What I think is happening is fans have devalued the talent we have (and performance of the 2019 O line), while the staff believes they're loaded there. And still they grabbed a kid in the 7th who can play G or T, started 4 years for one of the best programs in the country and fell into our lap. I seriously think we're in much better shape than the many fans suffering from PTSD (due to the O line injuries and that "lousy" 9-7 season) believe.

 

[So Ram]

You want Corbett at RG and Evans as the first backup, then very little has changed in the depth of the line. I happen to think Evans is the best of those 3 (Edwards, Corbett, Evans) and looked better, faster than either of them. My point is, they have options if somebody goes down before Noteboom and Allen return. What I think is happening is fans have devalued the talent we have (and performance of the 2019 O line), while the staff believes they're loaded there. And still they grabbed a kid in the 7th who can play G or T, started 4 years for one of the best programs in the country and fell into our lap. I seriously think we're in much better shape than the many fans suffering from PTSD (due to the O line injuries and that "lousy" 9-7 season) believe.

My thoughts are Evans will be the backup. Havenstien was suppose to comeback at the end of the season.
I don’t know if The Rams beat the Niners if that would have changed??

My hope is Havenstien comes in & steps up as a Veteran Leader. He is doing this en vogue RICE rehab. I think the downside is it takes longer,but you have to strengthen your core & injury ?? I not a Dr. but very curious on how this goes ??

Corbett is next to Whitworth that is a given. I think Edwards progression at RG affords him that position??

Evans to find his place, which I think will be the swing tackle?? Noteboom will not be ready!!! I don’t know how he will be & I believe Whitworths contract speaks volumes on that.

Allan should be ready,but Austin Blythe is going to be hard to pull from that Center Spot!!! He is a core Veteran Leader that Jared Goff trust.

All my statements are true facts,but things change. I don’t see it any other way right now.

Yes - I keep asking the same question no one has answered yet.
Edwards,Brewer & Evans get drafted at what spot in 2020 ??

 

[PARAM]

All my statements are true facts

Noteboom will not be ready!!! I don’t know how he will be & I believe Whitworths contract speaks volumes on that.

I keep asking the same question no one has answered yet.
Edwards,Brewer & Evans get drafted at what spot in 2020 ??

Well all my statements are facts in my mind too.

You're right, Noteboom might not be ready. I don't think that had anything to do with Whitworth's contract. They have him signed for 3 years and I'd bet huge jack he doesn't see year 3. I'd bet moderate jack he doesn't see year 2. It was a "just in case" deal. They needed him in 2020, might need him in 2021 (depending on healing and health this year) and if they need him in 2022, then this whole thing went south.

Where does Brewer go this year? I have no idea.
Edwards? Well under the same circumstances of last year....playing his entire senior season injured....probably the same spot. With a healthy senior season? Maybe a 3rd round pick? Higher? I think Evans would be about the same, perhaps a bit higher.......higher 3rd, low 2nd.

But that determines what, exactly? Evans played well. Edwards played well but had more game reps to develop. UDFA Brewer played 17 snaps last year and I couldn't honestly tell you how he played.

 

[So Ram]

Well all my statements are facts in my mind too.

You're right, Noteboom might not be ready. I don't think that had anything to do with Whitworth's contract. They have him signed for 3 years and I'd bet huge jack he doesn't see year 3. I'd bet moderate jack he doesn't see year 2. It was a "just in case" deal. They needed him in 2020, might need him in 2021 (depending on healing and health this year) and if they need him in 2022, then this whole thing went south.

Where does Brewer go this year? I have no idea.
Edwards? Well under the same circumstances of last year....playing his entire senior season injured....probably the same spot. With a healthy senior season? Maybe a 3rd round pick? Higher? I think Evans would be about the same, perhaps a bit higher.......higher 3rd, low 2nd.

But that determines what, exactly? Evans played well. Edwards played well but had more game reps to develop. UDFA Brewer played 17 snaps last year and I couldn't honestly tell you how he played.

As far as begin drafted who knows.

Oklahoma would have been even better though with Evans starting at LT. for another season.
Edwards was healthy in 2019 starting at guard. He was going to be a starter for Wisconsin at either Tackles as well.
In 2017 he was a projected 1st or 2nd rd pick.
Brewer is still only 22.He stayed on The Rams roster all of 2019 & played RT the last game of the season.Solid NFL experience for a udrfa

If your saying Whitworths contract has nothing to do with Noteboom it’s hard to believe, especially if your saying Whitworth doesn’t see all 3 years.
Whitworth’s contract gives The Rams some kind of insurance at LT ??
What the future brings is a different story.

 

[PARAM]

What "historical issue"? What Rams 2nd year O line regressed from their rookie season? Under McVay and Kromer?

 

[PARAM]

No. The point is you used bad examples. What did Noteboom and Allen regress from? Noteboom played 78 snaps in 2018. That's the equivalent of 1 game. And you saw enough of those 78 snaps to say he "regressed" in 2019? Brian Allen played even less, 38 snaps. He regressed too? Other players? Franklin-Myers only played 2018 and then was released so I guess techically you can say he regressed in year two. Come on my friend.

I don't "automatically expect the 2019 O line rookies to get better" but you're trying to tell me that "most have been about the same or just slightly better". Exactly who are you talking about there? NFL rookies? Ram rookies?

 

[8to12]

We are one injury away from Demby starting again. ONE INJURY AWAY.

I don't think so. If the starters are Whit, Corbett, Blythe, Edwards, Havenstein, then you have Noteboom, Evans or Allen to come depending on which player goes down. This means that Demby probably doesn't make the 53 man roster or, if he does, would be inactive most of the season and would dress only if one of the back-ups went down.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

So the worry is injuries? And yet last year because of injuries the O line was influx much of the year..........and the line sucked >>>>>> having no talent? Yet the team finished 9-7 and by any realistic estimation should have been 10-6 (with an easy kick from Z), could have been 11-5 (if the defense could have stopped the East Jabumfook Buccaneers or two 3rd and 16's against SF). So I guess had we enjoyed a healthy year along the O line, we wouldn't have had the proverbial superbowl hangover and probably returned to the big game, despite a no talent O line?

Here's who they probably have lined up for starters:
Whitworth, Edwards, Blythe, Evans and Havenstein

Here's who they probably have lined up for reserves:
Corbett C/G, Shelton C, Demby G/T, Brewer, G and Anchrum G/T (if they all make the squad, otherwise Kolone or Cabral)
This is assuming Noteboom and Allen aren't ready and start the year on PUP (6 weeks of no practice; up to 5 weeks of practice after that)

I agree, injuries are a concern, particularly after last year. It can wreak havoc on an O line, regardless of how talented they might be. But this year, we won't have a bunch of inexperienced greenhorns nervous about playing if needed. I disagree we don't have the talent necessary.

My point was that Edwards and Evans were instant upgrades, despite having less experience, so why assume Allen at Center, Blythe at guard, and Noteboom at guard is the default line when two of them return?

this idea that the Rams barely missing the playoffs = good Oline play is inaccurate. If they had good Oline play they would have made the playoffs. I get that it's a team game, but the QB and receivers are goid. Better run blocking and the defense gets more rest and the chains keep moving. There was some improvement. But, even the upgrades have their drawbacks. Edwards is kind of stiff, which isn't easily overcome. Blythe, although a better Center than guard is still lacks size and physicality. Evans seems to be the best of the three, and Brewer looks to have potential. It's not like Allen and Noteboom were replaced with All pros. And as far as the injuries go, they really sucked for the players but they lead to improvements. So the injuries were kind of a good thing.

 

[PARAM]

I didn't say it was about snaps. I questioned just how much you could see of Allens 38 snaps in 2018? He played better than he did in 2019, did he? Well you've got a keener eye than me.