Is Goff, Elite?

[CGI_Ram]

https://fivethirtyeight.com/feature...r-than-joe-montana-so-lets-fix-passer-rating/

While were disputing eliteness, I found this article interesting. Didnt want to start a new thread so I thought this was the best spot.

Yeah. Good read.

 

[Ramzheart]

I hope he's "elite" in the next 3 games!

 

[RamFan503]

Who is that?


Ps It would be nice for the guys who think Goff is elite to do so when he has done something legit. In my eyes a Super Bowl

Fouts and Marino disagree.

 

[Classic Rams]

Interesting story. Overall I think it's a good thing to have these adjusted, but having a hard time with the career ratings of Romo being above Tarkenton, Marino, Fouts, Dawson and others. Packer fans aren't going to like Young moving ahead of their boy, but oh well. And Russell Wilson... good QB but.... that high? But yeah, I'm for the adjustments because most of it looks right.

 

[Corbin]

Well, he's one of only three QBs in NFL history with a 4000+ yard, 30+ TD, 100+ Passer Rating season before 25 years old (others are Dan Marino and Patrick Mahomes). Plus, the Rams are 24-7 in the last two years in Goff's starts. I'd call that pretty damn legit.

I agree he is legit and pretty damned good but not elite just yet. We are in the games that make or break some people legacy we’ll see what happens. For the record I think we are SB bound.
My point exactly. I’d label Goff in the categories 1-2 below elite but we’ll see how these playoffs go.

Fouts and Marino disagree.

The difference is Fours and Marino has a whole body of work that demonstrated that. Goff has had 2.5 seasons to. Huge difference.

I do think we go to the SB this year with Goff leading the way. Now if we win that’s another story. Going to be interesting.

 

[RamFan503]

The difference is Fours and Marino has a whole body of work that demonstrated that. Goff has had 2.5 seasons to. Huge difference.

Wow. They did that by age 24?

My point is that if you throw out Goff's JV offense experience, even if he doesn't win a SB, his numbers are every bit as impressive as some of the greats that never won it. Does that mean he doesn't qualify ala Fouts and Marino?

Personally, I think this whole "elite" tag is an internet created arguing point. To some, elite refers only to a very few of the best QBs to ever play the game. To others, it means the top 5 or so playing the game right now. To others, it's a litmus test to argue whether or not a particular player is worth a big contract.

Not really pointing this at you but - it's a moving target without a bullseye - or.... it's this - you decide.

 

[Corbin]

Wow. They did that by age 24?

My point is that if you throw out Goff's JV offense experience, even if he doesn't win a SB, his numbers are every bit as impressive as some of the greats that never won it. Does that mean he doesn't qualify ala Fouts and Marino?

Personally, I think this whole "elite" tag is an internet created arguing point. To some, elite refers only to a very few of the best QBs to ever play the game. To others, it means the top 5 or so playing the game right now. To others, it's a litmus test to argue whether or not a particular player is worth a big contract.

Not really pointing this at you but - it's a moving target without a bullseye - or.... it's this - you decide.

Wth is up with that gif? Lol I can’t stop looking at it! When the dart comes into frame it looks like two of them? At first I thought it was on a wire but idk.

My point is you can’t throw out Jared Goff’s JV experience because then your manipulating the numbers to construe a point. His whole career is the full picture not just a piece of it. People talk about elite QB’s on TV, radio, internet and regardless where it’s discussed it typically is a combination of those things you mentioned in reference to elite QB’s.

By the stat provided by Jrry Goff, Mahomes, and Marino are the only QB’s in NFL history with a 4000+ yds, 30+ TD’s, 100+ passer rating in a season. Are we now arguing that those 3 are the best to ever play the game at QB? Don’t believe I’ve heard anybody argue this.

Is Mahomes the best QB in NFL history(besidesUncle Rico of course)? No QB has ever had a rookie year ever like Mahomes. Is he top 3? Top 5? Elite?
My point if any is it’s to early to tell with Mahomes or even still Goff and with that being said I think if he at least won a few playoff games I could even hear that argument.

 

[SeminoleRam]

Well, Personally, I hope Goff is the Rams starting QB for the next 15 Years (Or, Somewhere, In that range!) so I guess that qualifies that I think he is Elite OR that He Will Be OR that He is pretty Darn Close!!

 

[RamFan503]

My point if any is it’s to early to tell with Mahomes or even still Goff.

IMO - you could have answered with this and been done. BTW - I love the "if any" part. Do we really need a point to post shit here?

Wth is up with that gif? Lol I can’t stop looking at it! When the dart comes into frame it looks like two of them? At first I thought it was on a wire but idk.

The same NASA engineer that did the trick package in a thread here designed that. Pretty funny.

My point is you can’t throw out Jared Goff’s JV experience because then your manipulating the numbers to construe a point.

I very much can throw out Jared's stats in Fisher's "offense". Hell - I don't even have to use numbers in my particular version of "elite". Was Bradshaw elite? Was Joe Namath? If winning SBs is your criteria, I suppose so. If stats are your criteria, I can't see it. That's what I'm talking about. You almost have to tightly define your definition before you even argue that a QB is elite.

I agree that Goff has not achieved "elite" status by my definition. But I can see where some would say he is in the mix for elite in the current QB mix. Depends on how you choose to look at it. I'd rather try to define porn.

 

[MrRiceGuyRJ]

5th in TD
4th in yards
3rd YPA

Much better than “competent”.

Agreed he's better than competent. But riddle me this... if he pulls an RG3 or Wentz or Nick Foles (rd 1) or Sam Bradford before he got hurt the many many times or whomever else were short lived highlight reel, are they all Elite. We can't list every person with a good season or two as a future hall of famer. To me, Elite means Hall of Famer

 

[jrry32]

Agreed he's better than competent. But riddle me this... if he pulls an RG3 or Wentz or Nick Foles (rd 1) or Sam Bradford before he got hurt the many many times or whomever else were short lived highlight reel, are they all Elite. We can't list every person with a good season or two as a future hall of famer. To me, Elite means Hall of Famer

Huh? He's only 24 years old and is averaging 4246 passing yards, 30 passing TDs, 10 Ints, and a 100.8 passer rating over the past two years. RGIII and Foles were one year wonders. Bradford never came close to Goff's production. Wentz has injury issues, but he looks like a very promising young QB if he can stay healthy. I'm not sure why Goff is getting compared to flashes in the pan and injury prone players.

Further, if you look beyond Goff's individual numbers, we're averaging 12 wins per year with him over the past two years and our offense has finished #1 and #2 in scoring the past two years. So Goff isn't just putting up empty numbers. I'm a little shocked that even members of our fanbase don't give the kid the sort of credit he deserves. Could you imagine any of us not falling all over ourselves if you told us at the height of the Fisher era that we'd have a QB who would do what Goff has done?

I don't care if you call him "elite." That's a word with a definition that means something different to everybody. All I know is that the kid has played like one of the NFL's best QBs over the past two years. People wanted to see him repeat what he did in 2017. Goff not only repeated it, he exceeded it. Obviously, nobody can make any guarantees, but Goff is certainly on a HOF progression. HOF is as much about longevity as production, so Goff is still a long ways away, but he's off to as great of a start as almost anybody (not named Marino or Wilson).

 

[MrRiceGuyRJ]

I personally love the kid and hope he plays a very long and super successful career with the Rams. I'm just saying that a player has a season or two that's good, hell, great, doesn't deserve the Elite tag. Granted as you said, I think everyone has a different definition of Elite. Like I stated above, to me, Elite = HOF. No one is getting into the Hall of Fame on just a couple seasons.

And I compared the above players because I bet their fans were labeling them as the next coming of Christ as well. I think people just need to cool their jets on some of these conclusions IMHO

 

[jrry32]

I personally love the kid and hope he plays a very long and super successful career with the Rams. I'm just saying that a player has a season or two that's good, hell, great, doesn't deserve the Elite tag. Granted as you said, I think everyone has a different definition of Elite. Like I stated above, to me, Elite = HOF. No one is getting into the Hall of Fame on just a couple seasons.

And I compared the above players because I bet their fans were labeling them as the next coming of Christ as well. I think people just need to cool their jets on some of these conclusions IMHO

So you don't believe a player can be considered elite until he's in the HOF?

 

[Loyal]

I personally love the kid and hope he plays a very long and super successful career with the Rams. I'm just saying that a player has a season or two that's good, hell, great, doesn't deserve the Elite tag. Granted as you said, I think everyone has a different definition of Elite. Like I stated above, to me, Elite = HOF. No one is getting into the Hall of Fame on just a couple seasons.

And I compared the above players because I bet their fans were labeling them as the next coming of Christ as well. I think people just need to cool their jets on some of these conclusions IMHO

But as jrry says, your examples don't apply to Goff if you are comparing RG3 and Foles to him. RG3 was injured in the the playoffs his first year which ruined his career, and Foles in Chip Kelly's system was figured out by defensive HC's in the 2nd year. For your example to be true, DC's should have figured Goff out and our passing game should have sucked in the 2nd year, but it has improved. He needs to improve next year as well, which I think he will under McVay. Ready to enter the HOF? No, but then every other elite QB as you define elite would not have entered the HOF if they only had two years of success. Kurt Warner had 3 or 4 years of success with the Rams, but he wouldn't be in the HOF without his years in Arizona.

 

[Ramlock]

Agreed he's better than competent. But riddle me this... if he pulls an RG3 or Wentz or Nick Foles (rd 1) or Sam Bradford before he got hurt the many many times or whomever else were short lived highlight reel, are they all Elite. We can't list every person with a good season or two as a future hall of famer. To me, Elite means Hall of Famer

I’m not gonna deal in hypotheticals, so later.

Have fun with that.

 

[jrry32]

Kurt Warner had 3 or 4 years of success with the Rams, but he wouldn't be in the HOF without his years in Arizona.

Damn it, LoyalRam, I was building to that.

Warner won two NFL MVP awards and a Super Bowl with the Rams, but if it were not for the Cardinals tenure, he would not have made the HOF. Yet, I would classify him as an elite QB during his GSOT run with the Rams.

 

[MrRiceGuyRJ]

So you don't believe a player can be considered elite until he's in the HOF?

Not already in... but well on their way.

For example, I'd say Aaron Donald is an Elite DT. He's chasing long standing records, proving to be one of the best of all time.

Goff is just a really good player. I wouldn't say Goff is as good of a QB as Donald is a DT

 

[kurtfaulk]

.

Why do people want to think doom and gloom about Goff? Fuck that. I couldn't give a fuck what anybody calls him. What i do care about is the rams have their qb for the next decade at least and they are winning with him. What's not to like?

.

 

[jrry32]

Not already in... but well on their way.

For example, I'd say Aaron Donald is an Elite DT. He's chasing long standing records, proving to be one of the best of all time.

Goff is just a really good player. I wouldn't say Goff is as good of a QB as Donald is a DT

Aaron Donald is the best defensive player in football. There isn't another player in the NFL as good at his position as Donald is at his. I'd say that Goff is well on his way to the HOF. He's only a third year QB. If he continues to do what he's doing, he's a HOFer. There's no guarantee of that. But there's no guarantee of anything.