Hey Fisher, get a damn QB

[Jorgeh0605]

This is all I have left to say on the subject. This is a hobby, my friend. Every person has a hobby that they are crazy passionate about and involved in. I have football. My brother has fishing. My sister has equestrian. A friend of mine has video games. Everybody has that thing that they absolutely love and are passionate about.

But what strikes me as irrational is that I am supposed to pledge my undying loyalty to a football team's whose #1 motive is to profit off of me. If I'm unhappy with the team's product, tough. If I don't like the direction of the team, get over it. If I don't like the way the team is treating its fans, deal with it. Because that's what "real" fans do.That's like telling a fisherman that he can only fish in one lake for his life. That's like telling an equestrian that she can only ride one horse for life. That's like telling a gamer that he can only play one game for life. What happens if that game becomes outdated? Suck it up. That's what a real gamer does.

I'm sorry, my friend, but that's not logical to me. I am stubborn. I get very emotional about football. But I also try to remain logical when it comes to just about everything in life. I understand that the emotional connection that makes football so great won't exist if you jump from team to team. At the same time, I also don't accept that I have to root for the Rams no matter what they do. I might be a fan but I'm also a customer. If the Rams aren't going to provide what I want, I'm going to look for a product that will.

And I just happen to be lucky that I can still feel enough of an emotional connection to the Jaguars (for a variety of very good reasons) until the Rams make the changes that appeal to me as a customer.

We'll see what the Rams end up doing this off-season.

Hmmm I can kind of start to see and relate to your point. For me, when the rams suck, like 7 wins in 3 seasons suck, I stopped paying close attention to them. My love of football kept me in the loop around playoff times and the AZ Cardinals technically being my home team in AZ along with the bonus of being QB'd by Warner, gave me enough emotional investment to root for AZ those few dark years. I never switched favorite teams, but at that time I could safely rule out Rams playoffs before midseason. So I rooted for the Cards in the playoffs. However, I still kept my eyes on our team no matter how dreadful, and hope rekindled every offseason we got a new coach or QB. I never truly switched teams, but I still needed to feed my love of football while my team was seemingly KO'd each week.

I think that might be where @jrry32 is coming from. Perhaps he has a similar connection to the Jaguars that I had to AZ. Not making an attempt at a QB is the type of disheartening thing that can create apathy in a fan. But I'd imagine the moment we grabbed ourselves that QB whether this year or 2019 (hopefully it doesn't take that long) his hope would rekindle as mine did when we drafted Bradford (yea I know, but at the time it was hope), our Defense started showing up, and we were able to play exciting football again.

Or perhaps @jrry32 is a really cruddy person peeing all over Deacon Jones jerseys as we speak.

 

[FRO]

I don't see where there isn't debate? Is Fitzpatrick more experienced? Well yes. But is he better? I don't see anything that indicates that.

The numbers clearly indicate that. The talent indicates that. The offense only score 20+ points in one of Keenum's starts. Are we really going to argue that the guy who has thrown for 31 TDs and almost 4,000 yards isn't better than Keenum? Does Keenum post those numbers in New York? Keenum is along the same lines as Shaun Hill. Very gritty. Good backup QB. Doesn't have tools to start. But it appears that he will be given the chance to start for the Rams next year. Good luck with that.

 

[OldSchool]

The numbers clearly indicate that. The talent indicates that. The offense only score 20+ points in one of Keenum's starts. Are we really going to argue that the guy who has thrown for 31 TDs and almost 4,000 yards isn't better than Keenum? Does Keenum post those numbers in New York? Keenum is along the same lines as Shaun Hill. Very gritty. Good backup QB. Doesn't have tools to start. But it appears that he will be given the chance to start for the Rams next year. Good luck with that.

Are we assuming the production wouldn't shift if they switched teams/offenses?

 

[FRO]

Are we assuming the production wouldn't shift if they switched teams/offenses?

Of course it would shift, but you have to give Fitzpatrick his due. He ain't a franchise QB, but he is a decent starting one. The Rams do not currently have that on the roster. I saw Keenum play. He is Shaun Hill 2.0. Good player. Great backup. You need a top 5 defense and a top 5 run offense to get to 9 wins with him though.

 

[OldSchool]

Of course it would shift, but you have to give Fitzpatrick his due. He ain't a franchise QB, but he is a decent starting one. The Rams do not currently have that on the roster. I saw Keenum play. He is Shaun Hill 2.0. Good player. Great backup. You need a top 5 defense and a top 5 run offense to get to 9 wins with him though.

Both of them are stop gap's and not a solution to the problem IMO and are about equal when it comes to that.

 

[jrry32]

Of course it would shift, but you have to give Fitzpatrick his due. He ain't a franchise QB, but he is a decent starting one. The Rams do not currently have that on the roster. I saw Keenum play. He is Shaun Hill 2.0. Good player. Great backup. You need a top 5 defense and a top 5 run offense to get to 9 wins with him though.

With any move, you have evaluate if it's an efficient use of resources. Fitzpatrick isn't enough of an upgrade on Keenum to justify the additional cost. The Rams need to get a 1st round QB or trade for a talented young QB. Paying for a veteran stop gap that's only a slight upgrade on what we have just won't do it imo.

 

[dieterbrock]

The numbers clearly indicate that. The talent indicates that. The offense only score 20+ points in one of Keenum's starts. Are we really going to argue that the guy who has thrown for 31 TDs and almost 4,000 yards isn't better than Keenum? Does Keenum post those numbers in New York? Keenum is along the same lines as Shaun Hill. Very gritty. Good backup QB. Doesn't have tools to start. But it appears that he will be given the chance to start for the Rams next year. Good luck with that.

Well, you said there's no debate, and I suppose by that you mean you're not going participate in debate?
What talent differential?
I agreed that Fitzpatrick has more experience but where does that say he's better? Yeah, he threw 562 passes last year to get that 3,905 yards. Case Keenum has thrown 455 passes in his career
Now if we compare like vs like, lets look at the Keenum thru his 27th year of age vs Fitz?
Keenum is 258/455 (56.7%) 3023 yds with 15td (3.3%) and 9int (2.0%). Rating of 79.8
Fitzpatrick thru his 27th year of age is 424/734 (57.7%) 4104 yds with 21td (2.8%) and 27int (3.7%). Rating of 67.7
Keenum off to a significantly better start to his career
I've seen both play, and I cant see anything in Fitz game that says he's an upgrade from what Keenum was allowed to do

 

[FrantikRam]

Well, you said there's no debate, and I suppose by that you mean you're not going participate in debate?
What talent differential?
I agreed that Fitzpatrick has more experience but where does that say he's better? Yeah, he threw 562 passes last year to get that 3,905 yards. Case Keenum has thrown 455 passes in his career
Now if we compare like vs like, lets look at the Keenum thru his 27th year of age vs Fitz?
Keenum is 258/455 (56.7%) 3023 yds with 15td (3.3%) and 9int (2.0%). Rating of 79.8
Fitzpatrick thru his 27th year of age is 424/734 (57.7%) 4104 yds with 21td (2.8%) and 27int (3.7%). Rating of 67.7
Keenum off to a significantly better start to his career
I've seen both play, and I cant see anything in Fitz game that says he's an upgrade from what Keenum was allowed to do

I think Fitzpatrick is a clear upgrade over Keenum. But not one that justifies the price tag.

But to be fair, we're talking about where they are RIGHT NOW. And right now, Fitzpatrick is clearly better. If the Browns draft a QB, the Broncos acquire one, Fitz re-signs with the Jets and we roll with Keenum, I can't see a single team that would have a worse starting QB than us (Kaep is better than Keenum too).

 

[Ram Man]

Everything else being equal, I would rather have Fitzpatrick than Keenum, although since I would expect Fitzpatrick to decline and Keenum to improve at least a bit it's closer than you might think. But keep in mind that Fitzpatrick is a turn over machine at times. And also keep in mind that things aren't equal. The amount of money that Fitzpatrick would cost is a ton more than Keenum - meaning that the Rams would have to forego a very good player at least. and it would be a multi-year contract. And Fitzpatrick isn't really the answer anyway. He's currently a better backup than Keenum, but not a guy to pay QB starter salary for several years, when he should be a backup.

This. Assume most people think Fitzpatrick has the physical skills to play better than Keenum if on the Rams this season. The question is how much better is he likely to be in the Rams offense? No more Chain Gailey and crap receivers. Consider whether Fitzpatrick is a greater risk to be injured given his age and lack of mobility, or to fall apart (see Foles) than Keenum?

Next consider money. Fitzpatrick thus far is exploiting the crazy QB market and asking for a contract that teams are unwilling to pay. I assume he's demanding 2-3 years at $12-15 million per year with an amount equal to $9-10 million per contract year guaranteed at signing. Remember, because Keenum was tendered as a RFA he'll make around $3.6 million in 2017 and his contract is completely non-guaranteed. He can be traded/cut before the season with zero cap hit to the Rams.

There is a reason teams in need of a QB's are passing on Fitzpatrick. The Rams will be better off going with what they have this season, drafting a QB with the 15th pick, and starting that pick in 2017 than giving Fitzpatrick the contract he is demanding.

 

[VegasRam]

I just reread ROD's rules, and noticed it states "to remain a member in good standing, you must participate in this thread".

As to the OT, I think the Rams should do (give up) whatever is necessary, (in their judgement), to grab either Wentz or Goff - I think either one of them is (or can be) a legit starting caliber QB. Snisher have built a team good enough to take a chance drafting a QB they like.
At the same time, I'm not convinced Keenum is (or always will be) as mediocre as his current stats indicate, but will never be a Goff or Wentz. (Fence sitting 101).

As to the side topic, as a 55 year fan, I'm not sure I've ever seen fandom expressed as succinctly as it was in two of the posts in this thread - nice job guys - tho I can certainly understand the other argument, having almost become a Jags fan when I saw their color rush uniforms.

And finally,

I enjoyed the read. X, 503 and Selassie... well done.

I wish I could comment. But I will refrain as I don't have the tact.

@Ramatik - what he said.

 

[dieterbrock]

I think Fitzpatrick is a clear upgrade over Keenum. But not one that justifies the price tag.

But to be fair, we're talking about where they are RIGHT NOW. And right now, Fitzpatrick is clearly better. If the Browns draft a QB, the Broncos acquire one, Fitz re-signs with the Jets and we roll with Keenum, I can't see a single team that would have a worse starting QB than us (Kaep is better than Keenum too).

I just don't understand this line of thinking. What makes him so clearly better? It took 11 seasons for Fitz to play on a team with a winning record. And yeah, his penchant for throwing INT has a correlation to that.
He's not accurate and throws too many picks.
Houston benched him for Ryan Mallet and traded him so they could get Brian Hoyer. He was back up to Geno Smith until he got his jaw broke by a team mate.
There are/were openings for QB and he got passed up for all of them. Heck, Cleveland, Denver and San Fran are still arguably open. And he remains unsigned.
He was in a great spot last year, and had a great season. The Jets only had to beat a mailed it in Buffalo team to make the playoffs and they still are willing to let him leave.
Keenum did what the team allowed him to do. Play it close to the vest, don't take chances, protect the ball and let the running game and defense win. How Fitz is an "upgrade" in those areas is beyond me.

Oh well, I guess I'm repeating myself so here's to Case holding down the fort until Goff/Wentz are ready to go. A man can dream

 

[Ramatik]

No as a Rams fan I will post at will. This forum is also open to fans of other teams with honest criticisms. The forum has an ignore option I've used it once, if somebody offends you feel free to use it.

So, you post whatever you want. It's okay now to bitch about the Rams not doing what you want and saying you are going to quit and become a fan of another team if they don't because you don't think their serious... ad nauseum, whining, etc.

Okay. Then I can call you names then, because I think if you are that kind of weak kneed, ... so on and so forth... If we are degenerating to that level of postership here.

 

[Akrasian]

We are all Rams fans. Well, except for @Rynie

 

[kurtfaulk]

The numbers clearly indicate that. The talent indicates that. The offense only score 20+ points in one of Keenum's starts. Are we really going to argue that the guy who has thrown for 31 TDs and almost 4,000 yards isn't better than Keenum? Does Keenum post those numbers in New York? Keenum is along the same lines as Shaun Hill. Very gritty. Good backup QB. Doesn't have tools to start. But it appears that he will be given the chance to start for the Rams next year. Good luck with that.

please go watch his last game of the season against the bills. actually just watch the last qtr and tell us if he is the answer to any question.

.

 

[OldSchool]

So, you post whatever you want. It's okay now to bitch about the Rams not doing what you want and saying you are going to quit and become a fan of another team if they don't because you don't think their serious... ad nauseum, whining, etc.

Okay. Then I can call you names then, because I think if you are that kind of weak kneed, ... so on and so forth... If we are degenerating to that level of postership here.

First of all this isn't about me feeling that way. It's about me thinking its a persons right to feel that way if it's what they want. It's amazing that two months after the whole relocation mess we're at this point. During that we were asked to consider others feelings and let them be when it was about who sits in the owners box and what zip code the teams office/stadium is located in. So now that it's about the actual product on the field we're at your mercy to be labeled as you feel to describe our fandom level? I try not to presume and judge people but if that's the way it's going to be so be it, though I'm fairly certain that's not how the people that run the board want things done.

 

[Ramatik]

First of all this isn't about me feeling that way. It's about me thinking its a persons right to feel that way if it's what they want. It's amazing that two months after the whole relocation mess we're at this point. During that we were asked to consider others feelings and let them be when it was about who sits in the owners box and what zip code the teams office/stadium is located in. So now that it's about the actual product on the field we're at your mercy to be labeled as you feel to describe our fandom level? I try not to presume and judge people but if that's the way it's going to be so be it, though I'm fairly certain that's not how the people that run the board want things done.

That was my whole point. It's okay to feel however you want to. If you want to leave the team, then just go. Most of those who did... did that. Saying that they better do what I think or I'll go... that's another story. I don't know what that has to do with levels?

I thought the way the board was run was that you could offer legitimate criticism. (Usually there is a thread that limits the bitching)

Sorry, that's offensive.

 

[-X-]

This is all I have left to say on the subject. This is a hobby, my friend. Every person has a hobby that they are crazy passionate about and involved in. I have football. My brother has fishing. My sister has equestrian. A friend of mine has video games. Everybody has that thing that they absolutely love and are passionate about.

But what strikes me as irrational is that I am supposed to pledge my undying loyalty to a football team's whose #1 motive is to profit off of me. If I'm unhappy with the team's product, tough. If I don't like the direction of the team, get over it. If I don't like the way the team is treating its fans, deal with it. Because that's what "real" fans do.That's like telling a fisherman that he can only fish in one lake for his life. That's like telling an equestrian that she can only ride one horse for life. That's like telling a gamer that he can only play one game for life. What happens if that game becomes outdated? Suck it up. That's what a real gamer does.

I'm sorry, my friend, but that's not logical to me. I am stubborn. I get very emotional about football. But I also try to remain logical when it comes to just about everything in life. I understand that the emotional connection that makes football so great won't exist if you jump from team to team. At the same time, I also don't accept that I have to root for the Rams no matter what they do. I might be a fan but I'm also a customer. If the Rams aren't going to provide what I want, I'm going to look for a product that will.

And I just happen to be lucky that I can still feel enough of an emotional connection to the Jaguars (for a variety of very good reasons) until the Rams make the changes that appeal to me as a customer.

We'll see what the Rams end up doing this off-season.

I really don't agree with a whole lot of that. And since we both speak in absolutes, this is officially an impasse.

I'm certainly not denying you the right to change teams based on how you feel they're treating you. You're free to do whatever you want, of course. But you simply can't deny the fact that there are a great many fans who explicitly reject the idea that switching teams is an option. Whatever you wanna call that - their hobby, their entertainment, their passion, it doesn't matter - it simply means that you can't be a part of that particular sect of "hobbyists" anymore. Not that you care, and I don't expect you to. But you have to understand that you immediately fall into the "fairweather" and/or "bandwagon" fan category. Again, that shouldn't bother you if you're looking at this "hobby" purely from an analytical and logical standpoint. You just have to stand your ground now and accept that having a minority opinion of this nature comes with a certain stigma attached to it. Not a big deal, right? You're always welcome here, but I don't think you'll be viewed the same as before. And honestly, that kind of saddens me. A while back, during the Bradford era, I considered you one of my sharpest and staunchest allies. Now? I just don't view you the same.

 

[CGI_Ram]

I really don't agree with a whole lot of that. And since we both speak in absolutes, this is officially an impasse.

I'm certainly not denying you the right to change teams based on how you feel they're treating you. You're free to do whatever you want, of course. But you simply can't deny the fact that there are a great many fans who explicitly reject the idea that switching teams is an option. Whatever you wanna call that - their hobby, their entertainment, their passion, it doesn't matter - it simply means that you can't be a part of that particular sect of "hobbyists" anymore. Not that you care, and I don't expect you to. But you have to understand that you immediately fall into the "fairweather" and/or "bandwagon" fan category. Again, that shouldn't bother you if you're looking at this "hobby" purely from an analytical and logical standpoint. You just have to stand your ground now and accept that having a minority opinion of this nature comes with a certain stigma attached to it. Not a big deal, right? You're always welcome here, but I don't think you'll be viewed the same as before. And honestly, that kind of saddens me. A while back, during the Bradford era, I considered you one of my sharpest and staunchest allies. Now? I just don't view you the same.

 

[Loyal]

They sound like its was their final posts, dang it! I predicted a 20 page slugfest and we are only at 11 pages!..DO something, CGI!

 

[CGI_Ram]

They sound like its was their final posts, dang it! I predicted a 20 page slugfest and we are only at 11 pages!..DO something, CGI!

:rolllaugh: