Do the Cardinals trade Rosen?

[Memento]

Murray is opposite of RGIII in terms of his personality I think. He's a really good kid, but more importantly a fit for what Kingsbury wants to do offensively. That plus the connection between coach and QB does make this seem like it will happen.

And I pray it blows up in their faces too.

I've heard that Murray's father is a negative. His wishy-washy feeling on baseball and football is enough to scare me, and even though Murray's father isn't the same as LaVar Ball, he's a similar type of parent. Plenty of future stars have failed because of overbearing parents.

Murray is probably the most gifted quarterback in this class, but if you compared him with, say, Goff coming out, I'd take Goff every time, even if I didn't know what Goff would become.

 

[HE WITH HORNS]

Most running backs pretending to play QB in the NFL don't pan out. This guy could be RG3 all over again.

 

[A.J. Hicks]

His electric 'highlight' tape is so impressive.

It reminds me of this other guy. Tavon Austin.

He's certainly more dynamic being a QB but I don't know if it'll ever work into consistent play or he'll just be a splash play/game guy.

Interestingly enough Tavon's most electric game in his college career came against OU.

 

[Akrasian]

I just can’t see a team giving up much of anything for him. I didn’t think he was a 1st rounder last year. He’s definitely not a franchise guy imo. I think they will hold on to him for insurance. Hope that he balls out in pre-season and someone else suffers injury and becomes desperate.

The Cards won't want to start their new HC's tenure with a quarterback controversy. In addition, you want Kingsbury to be able to add talent this year.

Most people did think Rosen was a first rounder, and were a little surprised that he lasted until pick 10 - although it was a far deeper QB draft than this year's appears to be. The fact that Goff was able to put up two pro bowl seasons after a miserable first year when surrounded by a clueless coach and a serious lack of talent will also help Rosen's value. There's also very little of value on the QB free agent or trade market, and a bunch of teams with basically nothing or huge problems at the QB position. Meanwhile, Rosen's cap hit would only be $1.28 million this year for the team trading for him - which has to be tempting to teams that need a young QB with upside.

Basically, I'd be surprised if he didn't fetch a first, or a second and multiple other picks. Quarterbacks with upside are highly sought after.

 

[Merlin]

I've heard that Murray's father is a negative. His wishy-washy feeling on baseball and football is enough to scare me, and even though Murray's father isn't the same as LaVar Ball, he's a similar type of parent. Plenty of future stars have failed because of overbearing parents.

Murray is probably the most gifted quarterback in this class, but if you compared him with, say, Goff coming out, I'd take Goff every time, even if I didn't know what Goff would become.

I think with the right coaching staff he could end up being a better version of Russel Wilson. With the wrong coach, yeah, he could end up similar to RG3. But IMO he's a much better quality kid than RGme was and that matters.

 

[Memento]

I think with the right coaching staff he could end up being a better version of Russel Wilson. With the wrong coach, yeah, he could end up similar to RG3. But IMO he's a much better quality kid than RGme was and that matters.

I see your point, but helicopter parents have ruined careers, even if the players have amazing coaching staffs.

Look at Colby Rasmus of the St. Louis Cardinals. He landed with one of the best managers of all time in Tony LaRussa, and because he followed his father's advice instead of the hitting coach's advice, he was dealt, and never became the top prospect he was billed as.

Lonzo Ball is another one who looks like a bust. LaVar ruined all three of his kids' careers.

If you want a football example, Todd Marinovich is one.

If I were Steve Keim - and thank holy fate I'm not - I'd stick with Rosen. Murray is just...you never know with him. You don't know if he'll go with baseball or football, his father is overbearing, and he's so small. Like I said, he's probably the most gifted quarterback in this class...but RGMe was once a shining example as well. He seemed like a good kid as well, and...you know the story.

 

[Ramlock]

Murray is opposite of RGIII in terms of his personality I think. He's a really good kid, but more importantly a fit for what Kingsbury wants to do offensively. That plus the connection between coach and QB does make this seem like it will happen.

And I pray it blows up in their faces too.

I’m skeptical of his character...seems like a “me” guy, that was revealed in his transfer from Texas A&M.

But I don’t think Kingsbury will be around long either.

 

[jrry32]

The Cardinals keeping Rosen would be good for us. I'm going to disagree with what seems to be the majority here. Kyler Murray is a player. If a coach is willing to play to his strengths, that kid is very dangerous. He's the closest thing to Michael Vick since Michael Vick. And Murray throws the ball a lot more accurately. Kingsbury isn't a Fisher. He'll let that kid do what he does best. The only good thing is that I don't think Kingsbury is a good HC. He's a very good offensive mind, but he's an underwhelming HC. That might be our saving grace.

 

[Memento]

The Cardinals keeping Rosen would be good for us. I'm going to disagree with what seems to be the majority here. Kyler Murray is a player. If a coach is willing to play to his strengths, that kid is very dangerous. He's the closest thing to Michael Vick since Michael Vick. And Murray throws the ball a lot more accurately. Kingsbury isn't a Fisher. He'll let that kid do what he does best. The only good thing is that I don't think Kingsbury is a good HC. He's a very good offensive mind, but he's an underwhelming HC. That might be our saving grace.

I'm not denying that Murray is a player, but if I was Keim, I'd probably trade out of the pick. I don't trust Murray's commitment to football. I don't trust his helicopter father.

Those are the reasons why I'd be hesitant to trade Rosen in favor of drafting Murray.

 

[jrry32]

I'm not denying that Murray is a player, but if I was Keim, I'd probably trade out of the pick. I don't trust Murray's commitment to football. I don't trust his helicopter father.

Those are the reasons why I'd be hesitant to trade Rosen in favor of drafting Murray.

Murray made his choice. Only way he goes back to baseball is if he busts.

 

[Mojo Ram]

From Peter King:
3. Rosen Problem 2: What could you get in trade for him?
Miami (13th pick in the first round), Washingon (15), the Chargers (28) and New England (32) would be worth investigating … unless the compensation for Rosen has crashed. I asked Hall of Fame quarterback Kurt Warner, who lives in Arizona and watched Rosen last year, what he thinks the value for Rosen is. “I would give a three for Josh,” Warner said. A third-round pick. Yikes. Saturday night, I asked a renowned NFL GM what he thought the value of Rosen in trade would be. “Probably a three,” the GM said. “Not what the Cardinals would think his value is.” Scary, on the surface, for Arizona. But if you’ve decided you want Murray, and you’ve decided Rosen’s not your guy, you’ve got to move on, regardless what you get for Rosen.
-----------------------

That's my take as well, as I've said. They'll get a 3rd and maybe a low rounder thrown in. A 2nd if they're lucky.

 

[den-the-coach]

Murray made his choice. Only way he goes back to baseball is if he busts.

I concur and I also concur Murray is a player and will cause fits. He also a great job of protecting himself. I truly believe the Cards are taking him, Kingsbury thinks that much of him and as to Kingsbury being an underwhelming Head Coach, very true too. Just could not get the defense and special teams in sync and although you don't have to recruit in the NFL, Kingsbury game management left something to be desired as well, but it's a new day in Arizona, so who knows?

 

[Selassie I]

Rosen sure appears to be a complete and total douche... they may have to take way less than they would like just to exorcise this shit stain from the team. Looks to me to be a BIG addition by subtraction if they could unload him for ANYTHING.

 

[Ram65]

From Peter King:
3. Rosen Problem 2: What could you get in trade for him?
Miami (13th pick in the first round), Washingon (15), the Chargers (28) and New England (32) would be worth investigating … unless the compensation for Rosen has crashed. I asked Hall of Fame quarterback Kurt Warner, who lives in Arizona and watched Rosen last year, what he thinks the value for Rosen is. “I would give a three for Josh,” Warner said. A third-round pick. Yikes. Saturday night, I asked a renowned NFL GM what he thought the value of Rosen in trade would be. “Probably a three,” the GM said. “Not what the Cardinals would think his value is.” Scary, on the surface, for Arizona. But if you’ve decided you want Murray, and you’ve decided Rosen’s not your guy, you’ve got to move on, regardless what you get for Rosen.
-----------------------

That's my take as well, as I've said. They'll get a 3rd and maybe a low rounder thrown in. A 2nd if they're lucky.

Interesting. I don't know much about what happened in Arizona this past hear except they were a bad team. Daniel Jeremiah thinks Rosen is worth the 32 pick of the Patsies. It will be interesting to see what they get if they trade him. If two teams have interest then they could bid it up. A third rounder seems like a bargain.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...-josh-rosen-worth-more-than-a-thirdround-pick

 

[Akrasian]

Interesting. I don't know much about what happened in Arizona this past hear except they were a bad team. Daniel Jeremiah thinks Rosen is worth the 32 pick of the Patsies. It will be interesting to see what they get if they trade him. If two teams have interest then they could bid it up. A third rounder seems like a bargain.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...-josh-rosen-worth-more-than-a-thirdround-pick

FWIW - in 2017 on a team surrounded by talent but with a knee so bad he should not have even tried to play - Bradford put up a quarterback rating of 124.4. In 2018, with his knee much better but on the Cardinals, he put up the worst quarterback rating of his career at 62.5 - so basically half of 2017. Yeah, he might have deteriorated in non knee ways, but there are reasons to think that Rosen's performance was that of a rookie with a bad system and little talent around him. Given the demand for QB talent and the multiple teams that need help there, I expect a bit of a bidding war. I mean, how many QBs get taken a lot higher in the draft than you would expect for their talent level?

 

[Merlin]

If I were Steve Keim - and thank holy fate I'm not - I'd stick with Rosen.

The problem is Keim was part of the decision to bring in Kingsbury. So if you bring in a college offensive mind and he tells you he wants that QB at 1 overall, that he's the perfect fit for what he wants to do offensively, it's hard to start off your time together by telling him he has to go with the lesser QB option. And for the record I do think Rosen will do well in this league, as I don't believe his personality issues are as deep as Cutlers for example.

But anyway. The best GMs make astute head coaching hires and then support them. Whether Kingsbury works out who knows, but if you hire him it's kind of crappy to not support his vision.

 

[Memento]

The problem is Keim was part of the decision to bring in Kingsbury. So if you bring in a college offensive mind and he tells you he wants that QB at 1 overall, that he's the perfect fit for what he wants to do offensively, it's hard to start off your time together by telling him he has to go with the lesser QB option. And for the record I do think Rosen will do well in this league, as I don't believe his personality issues are as deep as Cutlers for example.

But anyway. The best GMs make astute head coaching hires and then support them. Whether Kingsbury works out who knows, but if you hire him it's kind of crappy to not support his vision.

Keim is likely going to be fired after this season, and I feel that Kingsbury will not be the kind of hire that makes the franchise escape the cellar. That's why I said that I'm glad that I'm not him.

 

[dieterbrock]

Their new HC apparently wants him - and if you hire a new HC and can easily get him the QB he wants, you do it.

And if you don't get the QB the new HC wants, even though you easily can, well that puts the "fun" in dysfunction for sure

 

[Malibu]

I hate to do it but I totally disagree with Kurt Warner and the anonymous GM that both said they would only give up a 3rd rounder for Rosen. They would have said the same about Goff after year 1. The Cards had a lousy team and lousy OL even David Johnson couldn't get going. The Cards are in transition.

Also who is Kingsbury anyway. He was fired as a college coach. To me it is a little early to let a HC with a super spotty track record call the shots to a GM. Murray is way undersized and one good shot and there goes the Cards chances.

Rosen needs the right HC and a way better OL and better WR pieces around him.

By giving up the first pick they lose out on Bosa and only the Giants make sense because they are at 6. I would say the Jags but it looks like they are into Foles god knows why. Both work for the Cards because they are not dropping down too much and will still get a premium Edge rusher. At 13 or 15 all 5 should be gone.

This off-season is going to be real interesting for FA and the draft.