Do the Cardinals trade Rosen?

[CGI_Ram]

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...be-likely-landing-spots-if-cardinals-move-on/

Josh Rosen trade rumors: Redskins, Broncos may not be likely landing spots if Cardinals move on
Separate speculation suggests the Broncos aren't interested in Rosen, either

Contrary to a suggestion that the Washington Redskins are "the favorite" to land Arizona Cardinals quarterback Josh Rosen if the former first-round pick is traded, it appears Jay Gruden and Co. remain undecided about their 2019 QB plans.

Appearing on Wednesday's "Around the NFL" podcast, NFL Network's Mike Garafolo disputed the notion that Washington has set its sights on any specific quarterback, let alone the former 10th overall pick.

"No, that's not true," he said of Washington's apparent pursuit. "They have done a little bit of homework here, or at least tried to figure out what the Cardinals' price would be. But they're not actively chasing him. And I don't know that they have a hard offer on the table, because I know for a fact that they are still going through the motions with the guys in the draft currently, and that they have made no firm decision ... I don't really believe that it's a sizzling market for Josh Rosen."

Washington, of course, already traded for one QB this offseason, acquiring Case Keenum from the Denver Broncos as part of a swap of late-round draft picks, and the team still has veteran Alex Smith under contract, although he's expected to miss the 2019 season. But that hasn't stopped team brass from eyeballing top draft prospects like Dwayne Haskins, Drew Lock and Daniel Jones, leading to speculation that the 22-year-old Rosen could also be on their radar.

Speaking of Denver, NFL Network's James Palmer believes the Broncos are another team with little interest in Rosen at this time. Like Washington, they also traded for a veteran this offseason, landing Joe Flacco from the Baltimore Ravens, but they, too, could be in the market for a longer-term solution at QB. And yet Rosen doesn't appear to be on their list.

"Things can always change, like asking price," Palmer tweeted Wednesday, "but I believe the Broncos are not interested in Josh Rosen if he's made available."

So who would that leave? The Giants are the biggest name in the market for a young quarterback, but they also own two first-round picks and could choose to find their guy in the draft. Speculation is that the Bengals could swap Andy Dalton out for a young signal-caller new coach Zac Taylor can develop. The Dolphins need to find a future passer but seem to be eyeing future draft classes to fill that need.

And there's always a chance a team with an entrenched veteran like the Patriots, Chargers or Saints could bring in Rosen for the right price in order to develop a successor. Remember that quarterback not being a clear need didn't stop the Packers from drafting Aaron Rodgers once upon a time, and that move certainly paid off in the long run.

 

[dieterbrock]

And there is also a team or two who secretly plan to wait on Tua next year.

 

[Mojo Ram]

Once Arizona's asking price for Rosen goes from a 1st round pick down to a 3rd there'll be more legitimate interest.

 

[LesBaker]

On point regarding the GM.
He just drafted Rosen last year. A great pick imo.
Why hire a coach that doesn't match or want Rosens skill set to begin with?

If the cards trade Rosen, they're fools. What they should be doing is building him and Johnson an o line and getting him some pass catchers.

I'm very cool with AZ dumping a more traditional drop back QB with a quick release for a Russell Wilson clone. Our DL has a lot of years and built up lessons on how to deal with such a QB.

Not just trading him, trading him for a guy that is 5' 10" and 190 pounds.

The Rams DL would end his season every year.

Once Arizona's asking price for Rosen goes from a 1st round pick down to a 3rd there'll be more legitimate interest.

IMO if they are going to trade him, which I wouldn't do, they will get a second.

There are enough teams that would give up a 2nd for him.

Hell off the top of my head there are a handful of teams that are desperate.

Denver, NY Giants, Miami and JAX.

And another few that can't be happy with how their QB is playing. Tampa, TENN (funny those two came in the same draft 1 and 2), and frankly we never know WHAT the hell Gruden is going to do right.

There are enough teams to get the price to a second rounder. It's possible someone offers a first rounder but I see that as a longshot. Maybe a second and a lower pick, but not a first.

 

[Mojo Ram]

There are enough teams that would give up a 2nd for him.

I disagree, although a 2nd isn't completely out of the question.
His value (Rosen's) would be higher if he hadn't played last season.
Same goes for Goff after his rookie debacle i believe. No one was going to give the Rams a 1st or a 2nd for Goff if he had been put on the block. Maybe if he had sat with a clipboard all season he was worth a low 1st or 2nd.
All the talk was that he was bust material. That talk isn't as loud with Rosen, but he wasn't a #1 overall pick either.

 

[Raptorman]

Here's the thing. They can keep both. Since they are both on the rookie wage scale they have no need to dump him. Think about it. If they keep both, their QB cap hit is around $12 -$14 million. Some team will eventually need a QB and will come calling with that first round pick in their hands.

 

[dieterbrock]

Exactly
Last season he was worth a top 10 pick after trading up.
This year he’s worth a 2nd/3rd.
He sits for a year behind Murray, they what’s he worth? A 4th/5th? And after 3rd year you have to decide whether or not to pick up the 5th year option?
Yeah, I’m with you. Get what you can and go with your #1

 

[CGI_Ram]

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...in-kliff-kingsburys-system-than-kyler-murray/

2019 NFL Draft: Why Josh Rosen is safer in Kliff Kingsbury's system than Kyler Murray
Maybe the Cardinals should stick with the guy they have instead of making a change to Kyler Murray

The Arizona Cardinals remain the central storyline for the 2019 NFL Draft, with no one willing to give an inch about their plans at the quarterback position. Just when there's starting to be buzz about Arizona sticking with Josh Rosen, they decide to bring Kyler Murray in for a visit and have his agent come with him, causing many people to wonder if there might be some kind of contract negotiation going on between the two parties.

Cards coach Kliff Kingsbury continued to throw people off the Murray scent, noting that Rosen is actually a great fit for his system and a better athlete when he ever was. Do we believe him? To break it down, Brady Quinn joined me on the Pick Six Podcast to talk about how Rosen would work in Kingsbury's Air Raid attack.

And Quinn actually believes that Rosen might be a better fit for what Kingsbury likes to run than Murray.

"I think what people fail to realize is, what was Kliff Kingsbury? He was a dropback quarterback. And he played within the system," Quinn pointed out. "So was Graham Harrell. So was essentially every other quarterback who played in the system, including Gardner Minshew who played in the system up in Washington State this year.

"The entire offense is based upon pocket passers. In fact, you can look at the entire Air Raid system and make the case that Josh Rosen is a better fit than Kyler Murray is. I just think people look at the Air Raid now and think, 'Oh, spread,' because you see a lot of spread formations. And you think about Kyler Murray playing within that system and his ability to run with a field that is so spread out and with some of those running lanes that are available even in the passing game, and you see why people think it would make sense."

Brady believes either Murray or Rosen can be good given the setup, but that Rosen might be "a little bit safer" than his younger counterpart.

"Both quarterbacks can play in and excel in the system. I don't personally think they would be handicapped by Josh Rosen and, to be perfectly honest with you, I think Josh Rosen is probably a little bit safer within the offense than Murray is, only because he's got NFL experience so far," Quinn continued. "Looking at the history of NFL quarterbacks, they tend to be guys who have the history of the skillset of Josh Rosen than the skillset of Kyler Murray."

This is the fascinating choice the Cardinals are facing -- do they believe they have enough in Rosen to keep pressing with their second-year quarterback in Kingsbury's system? If they do, it would make all the sense in the world to draft Nick Bosa or Quinnen Williams with the first overall pick, improve the defense and try to build around their 2018 first-round pick.

Ultimately it comes down to who is the best fit with Kingsbury's system and who provides them the most value. If they believe it's Rosen, as Quinn does, they should pass on Murray and try to land a blue-chip player at another position.

 

[TSFH Fan]

This is a pretty good analysis (long, thorough, but good) that concludes that either would work in KK's system:


View: https://youtu.be/rpVERe-MqOI

From Kollmann:

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/bcptgp/the_film_room_ep_107_the_josh_rosen_vs_kyler/eksiai0?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x

 

[Akrasian]

The Cards likely could get much more in return for the #1 pick than they'd get for Rosen. They could really jumpstart their rebuild - though they'd have Rosen for one less season than Murray before free agency. If I were the Cards GM I would offer the Raiders #1 overall for their #4, #24 and a future 1st, maybe a few later picks.

Then trade those picks and everything else of value to the Rams for a future 7th, since after all I am a Rams fan.

 

[LesBaker]

The Cards likely could get much more in return for the #1 pick than they'd get for Rosen.

The market price was set by Snead when he did the Griffin trade and when he moved up to get Goff.

If we assume the range there is what it would take to move up to #1 overall you are right on the money, they can definitely jump start the rebuild. In fact if they do trade Rosen and select a QB they are being foolish.

The Rams gave up the following:

Tennessee gets: Rams' first-round pick (2016), two second-round picks (2016), a third-round pick (2016), a first-round pick (2017) and another third-round pick (2017).

Rosen would net a 2nd round pick if they got a good deal, but as @Mojo Ram said it'll probably be a 3rd rounder. I still think someone could possibly "overpay" because it's a good young QB prospect with a cheap contract and a 5th year option.

 

[dieterbrock]

It wouldn't hurt Arizona's chances of trading Rosen if they started looking at trade partners for #1 overall

 

[Kevin]

Here's the thing. They can keep both. Since they are both on the rookie wage scale they have no need to dump him. Think about it. If they keep both, their QB cap hit is around $12 -$14 million. Some team will eventually need a QB and will come calling with that first round pick in their hands.

Sam Bradford

 

[CGI_Ram]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...e-to-point-to-kyler-murray-as-the-first-pick/

Signs continue to point to Kyler Murray as the first pick

The Cardinals remain committed to keeping their intentions for the first overall pick quiet, possibly at the behest of the league office or possibly because they like being the center of attention, for a change. But the signs continue to point to the Cardinals taking quarterback Kyler Murray with that No. 1 overall selection.

The fact that current quarterback Josh Rosen genuinely seems to be in the dark regarding his status continues to be the most compelling evidence that Rosen will be supplanted by Murray. If Murray isn’t the pick, the damage being done to Rosen’s standing within the organization will be hard to undo. Other players will look at him differently, always wondering whether he’s the guy they should be unconditionally following or whether it’s just a matter of time before he’ll be benched or traded. And if players can’t fully embrace the player who is supposed to lead them, the players necessarily won’t have the leader they need.

Here’s another signal that, for now, indicates that Murray will be the guy: He has agreed to go to Nashville for the draft. If he didn’t believe he’d be the first overall pick at a time when so many expect it to be him, would he walk into the embarrassment that necessarily would flow from sitting there in the green room while someone else becomes the first person to make the walk across the stage for a bear hug with Roger Goodell?

Murray will know before the draft whether he’s the pick, thanks to the relationship between agent Erik Burkhardt and the Cardinals. Burkhardt represents Cardinals coach Kliff Kingsbury, and Burkhardt helped Kingsbury navigate a contractual minefield out of USC and into the job he now has. Kingsbury will know what the Cardinals are going to do, Kingsbury will tell Burkhardt, and Burkhardt will tell Murray.

So if Murray follows through on his non-binding agreement to attend the draft, he’s the guy. If he cancels (in the same way he canceled his trip to D.C.), he’s not. With so few sure things entering this year’s draft, that may be the only one.

 

[CGI_Ram]

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft...ch-at-current-trade-price-qb-in-play-at-no-6/

Giants draft rumors: Josh Rosen may be out of reach at current trade price, QB in play at No. 6?
With two first-round picks, the Giants have the ability to shape the draft almost as much as any other team

One year after (foolishly) passing on Sam Darnold to take a running back (albeit, a pretty great one in Saquon Barkley), the New York Giants will enter the 2019 NFL Draft as one of the most intriguing teams that has the ability to shape the draft with two first-round picks. The question on everybody's mind: Is this the year the Giants finally draft Eli Manning's successor?

With less than a week remaining until the draft, an answer to that question has yet to emerge, but rumors continue to circulate.

The Giants will have at least three chances to obtain a young quarterback by the end of Round 1. They can try to trade for Josh Rosen, who is reportedly available for trade as the Cardinals consider taking Kyler Murray at the top of the draft. They can draft a quarterback at No. 6. Or they can select a quarterback at No. 17.

Let's start with Rosen, a quarterback the Giants also could've taken at No. 2 a year ago. Apparently, they're worried about his personality, something we heard a ton about Rosen before he entered the league -- a debate that I never hope to relive.

According to SNY's Ralph Vacchiano, who cited a team source, their "biggest concern" about Rosen was "his personality and how it would fit in New York."Vacchiano writes that "there were worries inside the Giants organization about how Rosen would handle the press when, inevitably, things went wrong on the field."

On his part, Giants general manager Dave Gettleman hasn't been willing to say if he's discussed a potential trade with the Cardinals. But he has indicated that the personality of a quarterback matters.

"Being a quarterback of a team in this type of market is a load," Gettleman said, per SNY. "It's a mental load. It's more than just looking at a guy's physical talent. It's about his makeup. … You have to have a mental toughness about you to play the position here in New York."

Rosen's personality would really be the dumbest possible reason for the Giants to pass on him. Just read what Larry Fitzgerald has said about Rosen. It doesn't seem like his personality is an issue at all, at least not with his Cardinals teammates. And that's what should matter the most.

Isn't this the kind of personality you'd want in a quarterback?


View: https://twitter.com/SInow/status/1118944786176671744?s=20


Despite their concerns, the Giants are still reportedly interested in him, but perhaps not interested enough to complete a deal. Vacchiano reports that the Giants aren't willing to give up either of their first-round picks, "don't seem inclined to trade" their second-round pick, and don't think their third-round pick would get the job done.

Translation: The Giants are interested in Rosen, but only at their price, but they don't think their price is one the Cardinals would accept.

The draft is right around the corner, but plenty of time remains for the Giants to decide that Rosen is actually worth a second-round pick. If Rosen were coming out of college in this year's draft, he'd likely be considered by some the top quarterback in the draft. It's only because of Rosen's dreadful year, which he spent in a terrible offensive system that resulted in the offensive coordinator's dismissal in the middle of the season and the firing of the rest of the coaching staff at the end of the year, that his stock has fallen considerably. How many rookie quarterbacks would've thrived in that environment?

There's also plenty of time for the Cardinals to either come to the realization that they're not going to get more than a third-round pick for Rosen or decide that they want to build around Rosen instead of starting over with Murray, the latter of which is something our Pete Prisco has talked about recently.

The point being, even though the draft begins on Thursday night, things can change quickly. For all we know, it'll be a team like the Redskins or Patriots(gulp) that agrees to acquire Rosen.

The Giants could also decide to draft a quarterback. With the No. 6 and No. 17 picks, they should be in a position to grab either Murray, Dwayne Haskins, Drew Lock, or maybe Daniel Jones (considered the worst of the bunch) in the first round.

On Thursday night, NFL Network's Ian Rapoport offered an update.

"The conventional wisdom now feels like the Giants will pass on a quarterback at six. But it is fascinating for me the amount of people I have spoken with who now are convinced -- convinced -- the Giants take (a quarterback) at six," Rapoport said.

Rapoport mentioned that Haskins is "the kind of player" the Giants would like to be "the face of the franchise." He also mentioned Jones as a potential fit.


View: https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1119015819676135424?s=20


It's also worth remembering that everything the Giants have said publicly indicates they have a wealth of confidence in 38-year-old Eli Manning. They might not even draft a quarterback this year. They could decide to wait for next year's draft class. After trading away Odell Beckham, that might not be the worst move for a franchise in sudden need of a proper rebuild.

To review: The Giants are interested in Rosen, but were also concerned about his personality a year ago and don't want to give up a first- or second-round pick for him. "The conventional wisdom" says the Giants won't take a quarterback at No. 6, but now some people around the league are "convinced" they will. The Giants are still happy with Manning -- at least that's what they're saying. Finally, the Cardinals are interested in Murray, but could decide to keep Rosen.

To sum up: We know nothing.

The good news is that winter is finally almost here. The draft is only six days away.

 

[CGI_Ram]

The fact that current quarterback Josh Rosen genuinely seems to be in the dark regarding his status continues to be the most compelling evidence that Rosen will be supplanted by Murray.

This makes sense to me.

 

[Rams43]

So you're saying that if the Cards can’t get at least a very high 3rd (#65), then they will keep both QB’s?

I doubt that very much.

 

[RamFan503]

So if Murray follows through on his non-binding agreement to attend the draft, he’s the guy. If he cancels (in the same way he canceled his trip to D.C.), he’s not. With so few sure things entering this year’s draft, that may be the only one.

So I've never heard this theory in any draft. Seems like a huge reach . Granted - if he doesn't show, it may be an indication. But if he does, it hardly seems like a guarantee .

Personally, I think it would be a mistake to give up on Rosen for a 5'10" dual threat QB.