Demoff on Fisher

[Young Ram]

Did I mention Cam Newton?

He drafted a QB with his 1st pick who ran nothing close to resembling an NFL offense in college, who started only 1 season and was replacing a QB that was drafted with a 2nd round pick the year before. Rivera put him in right away and he paid immediate dividends

Are you not mentioning Newton here?

 

[badnews]

This thread probably isn't a good example of that but yeah - I'm not cool with the attitude or lack of respect he has been getting. I think the discussion going on in this thread has a different feel however.

It does.
By and large and with the exception of a few hours on Sundays, the regulars here are about as fair and respectful as a person could reasonably expect to find online.

 

[dieterbrock]

Are you not mentioning Newton here?

I'm talking about Ron Rivera and his decisions.
I credit Ron Rivera as the HC for turning the franchise around.
He took over a 2-14 team that was deplorable on both sides of the ball and yet had them at 12-4 3 years later
Just another example of a quality HC that didn't need 6 years to produce a winning season

 

[Young Ram]

I'm talking about Ron Rivera and his decisions.
I credit Ron Rivera as the HC for turning the franchise around.
He took over a 2-14 team that was deplorable on both sides of the ball and yet had them at 12-4 3 years later
Just another example of a quality HC that didn't need 6 years to produce a winning season

Okay, now do you think Rivera would have been as successful without a franchise QB?

 

[blackbart]

Yep, had to be built from ground up.
Its incomparable to a current NFL franchise.
But illustrates how incomprehensible 5 straight losing seasons is when true expansion teams can do better

From the ground up but there were different processes for how the teams were drafted/picked from other rosters. If I remember right when Carolina and Jacksonville came in the other teams got to protect some players but had to leave others available to be scavenged. I don't think the Browns and Texans got quite the same head start.

 

[jrry32]

Just shows fans are not to be listened to when running a franchise they are too emotional and don't know jack crap about what it takes.

Or it shows that fans are quicker to recognize when something is wrong than NFL teams.

I've watched this team over the past decade. You're not about to sell me on the fans being any worse than some of the people we've had in charge.

Show us a comparison between the teams they inherited and the QB play over the last three years. Not even close to the same thing.

Jeff Fisher inherited a team with a #1 overall pick at QB and the #2 pick in arguably the best QB Draft in the last decade.

The failures at QB fall directly on Fisher. He had more than enough time to get the position fixed. He didn't until it was too late.

Stop making excuses for his failures. Fisher had complete control over this team. He had 5 years to completely rebuild it. The team still isn't winning. The amount of time he got to right the ship was almost unprecedented. The trade compensation he got in the RGIII deal was almost unprecedented. Yet, here we are a few years later still losing.

 

[blackbart]

Or it shows that fans are quicker to recognize when something is wrong than NFL teams.

I've watched this team over the past decade. You're not about to sell me on the fans being any worse than some of the people we've had in charge.



Jeff Fisher inherited a team with a #1 overall pick at QB and the #2 pick in arguably the best QB Draft in the last decade.

The failures at QB fall directly on Fisher. He had more than enough time to get the position fixed. He didn't until it was too late.

Stop making excuses for his failures. Fisher had complete control over this team. He had 5 years to completely rebuild it. The team still isn't winning. The amount of time he got to right the ship was almost unprecedented. The trade compensation he got in the RGIII deal was almost unprecedented. Yet, here we are a few years later still losing.

Of course it was Fisher who jacked up Bradford's leg Tonya Hardingesk??? And then when Bradford was still getting his legs back he threw ole Jake Long out there to finish Bradford off.

I'm on record for calling out Fisher for not building the Oline as his first priority to protect Bradford so he does not get a pass from me on everything. However saying he was responsible for "not getting the QB position right" is short sighted and doesn't include any credit for getting Goff and dumping Bradford's contract.

There are a lot of things unprecedented with this team, worst 5 year record in history, move back to LA, jump from 15 to 1 to get Goff. Leaning on all the bad stuff without considering the good is just sour grapes.

 

[thirteen28]

Of course it was Fisher who jacked up Bradford's leg Tonya Hardingesk??? And then when Bradford was still getting his legs back he threw ole Jake Long out there to finish Bradford off.

What about the offensive coordinator spot? Which one of our OC was knocked out for the season with a torn ACL?

Seriously, why does Fisher get a pass when he has made abysmally bad choices at the OC spot? He hired Brian Schottenheimer over Hue Jackson, the latter who, with Cody Kessler as his QB has a Browns offense playing better than our own. When Norv Turner was available after getting fired from the Browns, he kept Schottenheimer around instead of going to get someone better despite the fact that our offense was not good (something he most definitely did not do with Tim Walton, who he canned after one season for a defense that underachieved to a much lesser degree). And when Schottenheimer left, the best he could do is Cignetti ... whom he fired in less than one season. And with another opportunity to get a good OC this past offseason, the best he can come up with is the amateurish Boras, who telegraphed plays to the 49ers so bad that he might has well given them our playbook.

Unlike Bradford's ACL, the OC hires were directly under Fisher's control. We've had Schotty, Cigs, and Boras, whose records have been laid out above by jrry. Does he get a pass for that too?

 

[jrry32]

Of course it was Fisher who jacked up Bradford's leg Tonya Hardingesk??? And then when Bradford was still getting his legs back he threw ole Jake Long out there to finish Bradford off.

Fisher made the decision to move forward with Bradford rather than drafting a new QB. It was a decision I supported at the time. In hindsight, it was the wrong decision.

If that was the only wrong decision he made, I could look past it. But when you consistently make the wrong decision as a head coach, you stop getting the benefit of the doubt. It was mistake #1 in a long line of mistakes.

I'm on record for calling out Fisher for not building the Oline as his first priority to protect Bradford so he does not get a pass from me on everything. However saying he was responsible for "not getting the QB position right" is short sighted and doesn't include any credit for getting Goff and dumping Bradford's contract.

He's 100% responsible for failing to get the QB position right by the end of his fifth year. You can try and explain it away however you wish. That failure falls on him. He decided to stick with Bradford. He decided not to draft any of the talented QBs in 2012 or 2014. He decided to make Nick Foles and Case Keenum his opening day starters in 2015 and 2016.

He failed.

He doesn't get credit for getting Goff because he didn't make any effort to prepare him to start early this year. That failure falls on Fisher too.

Dumping Bradford's contract? LOL. The Eagles "dumped" Bradford's contract for a first and fourth round pick. It doesn't seem difficult to trade Bradford.

There are a lot of things unprecedented with this team, worst 5 year record in history, move back to LA, jump from 15 to 1 to get Goff. Leaning on all the bad stuff without considering the good is just sour grapes.

The "good" doesn't mean anything when it doesn't result in wins. This is football. It's a results-based business. You're judged by whether you win or lose.

I don't care if it comes off as sour grapes. He's not winning. He had 5 years to win. He failed to do it. You can bring up all the good you want; it didn't result in wins. You can make all the excuses you want and call us bitter. It doesn't change the fact that Fisher has been nothing but a failure here.

Mike Singletary stocked the tank in San Francisco, but he failed to win with that team. It took Jim Harbaugh taking over for that team to win. You could sit here and talk about all the credit Mike Singletary deserved for handing Jim Harbaugh a great team. Nobody will ever give him the credit because he failed to win. That's what people judge head coaches on, wins and losses.

 

[jrry32]

Unlike Bradford's ACL, the OC hires were directly under Fisher's control. We've had Schotty, Cigs, and Boras, whose records have been laid out above by jrry. Does he get a pass for that too?

Of course, he does. Look at the QBs they had to work with. They had no chance.

But wait...the man responsible for the QBs they had was Jeff Fisher...damn it, how do I deflect the blame now?

 

[thirteen28]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWSrwEYJBrg

 

[thirteen28]

Of course, he does. Look at the QBs they had to work with. They had no chance.

But wait...the man responsible for the QBs they had was Jeff Fisher...damn it, how do I deflect the blame now?

Well, except for that first year and a half with Bradford, who became (and was coached into being) the master of the checkdown under Schotty. If checkdowns were checkmates, under Schotty, Bradford would have been The Chess King.

 

[blackbart]

What about the offensive coordinator spot? Which one of our OC was knocked out for the season with a torn ACL?

Seriously, why does Fisher get a pass when he has made abysmally bad choices at the OC spot? He hired Brian Schottenheimer over Hue Jackson, the latter who, with Cody Kessler as his QB has a Browns offense playing better than our own. When Norv Turner was available after getting fired from the Browns, he kept Schottenheimer around instead of going to get someone better despite the fact that our offense was not good (something he most definitely did not do with Tim Walton, who he canned after one season for a defense that underachieved to a much lesser degree). And when Schottenheimer left, the best he could do is Cignetti ... whom he fired in less than one season. And with another opportunity to get a good OC this past offseason, the best he can come up with is the amateurish Boras, who telegraphed plays to the 49ers so bad that he might has well given them our playbook.

Unlike Bradford's ACL, the OC hires were directly under Fisher's control. We've had Schotty, Cigs, and Boras, whose records have been laid out above by jrry. Does he get a pass for that too?

Tell me what you know about the negotiations that the Rams had with Hue Jackson. Who else did they have in for a talk, did they get an offer? Do you have some inside information or just speculation?

 

[blackbart]

Of course, he does. Look at the QBs they had to work with. They had no chance.

But wait...the man responsible for the QBs they had was Jeff Fisher...damn it, how do I deflect the blame now?

Sure would have been better if they would have just hired Brady

 

[Ellard80]

Don't get riled up about this that statement. I'm not saying there is zero chance Fisher comes back... but its getting closer to zero everyday.

But people love to say nice things about people right before they can their ass. Nothing like the deadly vote of confidence. It's all just talk and smokescreens. The truth eventually will wiggle out - one way or the other.

 

[Young Ram]

Fisher made the decision to move forward with Bradford rather than drafting a new QB. It was a decision I supported at the time. In hindsight, it was the wrong decision.

If that was the only wrong decision he made, I could look past it. But when you consistently make the wrong decision as a head coach, you stop getting the benefit of the doubt. It was mistake #1 in a long line of mistakes.



He's 100% responsible for failing to get the QB position right by the end of his fifth year. You can try and explain it away however you wish. That failure falls on him. He decided to stick with Bradford. He decided not to draft any of the talented QBs in 2012 or 2014. He decided to make Nick Foles and Case Keenum his opening day starters in 2015 and 2016.

He failed.

He doesn't get credit for getting Goff because he didn't make any effort to prepare him to start early this year. That failure falls on Fisher too.

Dumping Bradford's contract? LOL. The Eagles "dumped" Bradford's contract for a first and fourth round pick. It doesn't seem difficult to trade Bradford.



The "good" doesn't mean anything when it doesn't result in wins. This is football. It's a results-based business. You're judged by whether you win or lose.

I don't care if it comes off as sour grapes. He's not winning. He had 5 years to win. He failed to do it. You can bring up all the good you want; it didn't result in wins. You can make all the excuses you want and call us bitter. It doesn't change the fact that Fisher has been nothing but a failure here.

Mike Singletary stocked the tank in San Francisco, but he failed to win with that team. It took Jim Harbaugh taking over for that team to win. You could sit here and talk about all the credit Mike Singletary deserved for handing Jim Harbaugh a great team. Nobody will ever give him the credit because he failed to win. That's what people judge head coaches on, wins and losses.

Posts like these are why I now refrain from posting in topics like these. There is no rationale involved. I understand this is a result based business but some of us see beyond a win-loss record. It's not like fisher wasn't trying to get a legitimate QB in his 5 years as head coach. And finally, when we think he might have gotten it right, it doesn't matter because the 'time frame' for whether a coach is successful or not is 3-4 years.

 

[Young Ram]

I would also like to add that I understand why most want fisher gone. The thing that bugs me is when the ones who want to keep fisher are called crazy or delusional.

 

[jrry32]

Posts like these are why I now refrain from posting in topics like these. There is no rationale involved. I understand this is a result based business but some of us see beyond a win-loss record. It's not like fisher wasn't trying to get a legitimate QB in his 5 years as head coach. And finally, when we think he might have gotten it right, it doesn't matter because the 'time frame' for whether a coach is successful or not is 3-4 years.

You getting upset at the rationale isn't the same thing as there being no rationale. You can look beyond the win-loss record. But I won't. It's been 5 years. Most coaches don't get more than 3. The excuses stopped mattering to me after 4 years. I gave him 4 years. That was more than fair.

I don't care if he was trying. He failed. I am sure Spagnuolo tried damn hard to not be a bad head coach. He still was a bad head coach. You don't get points for effort.

We shouldn't have to "think" after 5 years that he got it right. We should KNOW. But that's not even the problem here. The problem isn't whether Goff is the right guy or not. The problem is that Fisher couldn't luck his way into even a .500 season without a franchise QB. That means he's not a good football coach. That's not a guy I want to saddle Goff with.

Because if he got it right (and I believe he did), we owe Goff the duty to surround him with the best possible supporting cast. That includes the best possible coaching staff. Fisher isn't that. It shouldn't be Goff's job to carry Fisher and justify keep his mediocrity around here.

 

[blackbart]

I don't know. We'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

It would be the most disappointing move this franchise ever made for me. I've seen a lot of disappointing moves. But I always believed they did it because they wanted to win but made a miscalculation due to incompetence. Extending Fisher would be a move that told me (and many others I expect) that they don't care about winning. They only care about making money.

I might agree with the making money thing for Kronke if he didn't own a bunch of other pro teams. The football guys on the Rams want to win as much as anyone else in the league. It's coming.

 

[jrry32]

I would also like to add that I understand why most want fisher gone. The thing that bugs me is when the ones who want to keep fisher are called crazy or delusional.

We call them like we see them. If you're not fed up with a coach after him posting a losing season in each of his first 5 seasons, you have the patience of a saint. If you also don't recognize that he has failed to get the job done (especially when he has the final say over all personnel moves), you aren't accepting what's right in front of your face.