Debating which team will win the NFC West: Rams, Seahawks, 49ers or Cardinals? | First Take

[Elmgrovegnome]

Who said "in a year"? They have to win a SB. If that's 2021, fine. Or.2022, 2023 or 2024. But as a HC/QB combo, they have to win a Superbowl or it's a disappointment.

I thought like a few of the posters your giving the trade a year and if it doesn't happen then McVay's rep is tarnished. Just playing devil's advocate. I misunderstood your intention.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

so you're saying he was going to his first read every time in 2017 and 2018? haha, c'mon man, you're better than that.

.

Not when things were going well, before teams began switching defensive formations pre snap and McVay was telling Goff what to do. Once teams figured out Goff's weaknesses his, reading defenses and pressuring him, his game suffered.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

How in the hell can a football smart guy like yourself (and I seriously mean that) can accurately call the inadequacies of the Rams OLine preseason last year (And you nailed it, especially the interior) and not seemingly comprehend the effect such inadequacies would have...consequences, on a 25 year old classic drop back QB is most puzzling

I should have qualified it with 'under pressure'. Teams learned that he struggled under pressure and it wasn't alk just on Blythe. Most QBs have weak spots on their lines to work with. Goff had plenty of time to throw in 2017/2018, except when teams starting bringing extra rushers in 2018. A lot of QBs can look great with no pressure.

 

[FrantikRam]

In a word? YES.

SF traded up to get Lance. Did they do that "to get a better QB" or to win a Superbowl?

The Rams traded 2 firsts and then some to get Goff. To "get a better QB" or to win a Superbowl?

The Eagles traded 2 firsts and more to get Wentz. To "get a better QB" or to win a Superbowl?

No team makes a huge move just "to get better". They do it to win a Superbowl.

Or they just don't "get it"

Every team every year makes every move to win a Super Bowl.

Trading two insanely overrated first round picks doesn't change much in terms of expectations.

We traded two first round picks for Ramsey - both much likely to be higher than what we gave Detroit.

We will also have 10-11 draft picks next year.

The first round picks mean very little here.

Nobody is talking about the Rams last two seasons being a failure because of the Ramsey trade.

So it's really not about the picks - especially because we in no way mortgaged our future (how could that make sense with TEN picks next year??)

 

[CGI_Ram]

That was a late throw. Brandin Cooks was wide open and Jared was late. But it did hit Brandin in the hands and to quote Torry Holt if it touches your hands you better catch it. But it shouldn't have been as difficult as it was. Doesn't get that much easier than that in NFL.


View: https://youtu.be/_QO55-KqgZo

I was thinking throw at 11:20 mark:



View: https://youtu.be/usw9WiShXEs

 

[fanotodd]

A case could easily be made for ANY team in our division. It’s that competitive and talented.

Zona is obviously the longest shot on the board, but they are no easy out when their young QB is healthy.

As long as the seahawks have wilson, they’re gonna be tough. No matter who has the better team, the Rams/seahawks games are usually tight, mainly because no matter how much the Rams beat up wilson, he always seems to make a few plays.

As for the 9ers...fuck the 9ers.
Go Rams!

 

[nighttrain]

Goff is a first read QB that struggles to read defenses. He doesn’t see receivers until they are open. What offensive scheme can capitalize on that?

this is debatable, I've seen Goff go thru his reads many times, not last year as he was put in the position of rolling left of right because of Blythe's limitations, but definitely in 2017 and 18 when Rams had a John Sullivan playing center.
train

 

[Tano]

What happens if Cooks catches that TD pass in the SuperBowl? Goff made a hell of a throw... if Cooks comes down with that ball...

Do the Rams win that game? Would Goff still be here?

Wild to think about.

If Cooks catches either pass, I think the Rams win the Superbowl.

The first one, if only he saw the cornerback coming at him from the corner of his eye, Cooks had time to turn his body slightly to block out the cornerback coming in.

At worst, it would have been pass interference and a first down and goal to goal.

The second one, he had it securely in his right arm and just dropped the ball when he hit the ground.

I have seen a few really good receivers hold onto a ball like that.

Edit - I just rewatched the second catch and he never had it securely in his arms. But I still have seen receivers catch passes with one arm before. It would have been a great catch but still...

 

[Ramlock]

What happens if Cooks catches that TD pass in the SuperBowl? Goff made a hell of a throw... if Cooks comes down with that ball...

Do the Rams win that game? Would Goff still be here?

Wild to think about.

The phantom hold on Gurley’s run…FG there ties the game.

 

[Tano]

No but their offense better be significantly better and their ability to come from behind better no longer be a problem.

I think Goff did a really good job coming from behind. We lost a few games because the defense had a mind fart late in those games after Goff got them a lead.

 

[Giles]

I think Goff did a really good job coming from behind. We lost a few games because the defense had a mind fart late in those games after Goff got them a lead.

The bills game last year comes to mind.

 

[Angry Ram]

I was thinking throw at 11:20 mark:



View: https://youtu.be/usw9WiShXEs

Yeah that one was a fantastic pass. The next play though. Ugh. IDK if he's told to do one read or another, or maybe he panicked, but that one had "hot route" written all over it. CJ Anderson had no one around him. I won't harp on him too much though. In that moment, its hard for anyone to be even keel.

 

[Tano]

The bills game last year comes to mind.

That was a great comeback by Goff and the defense blows it. But that bullshit penalty - aaaarrrrrggggghhhhh

 

[CoachAllred]

I dont know how you came to this conclusion

It was well publicized.
Mcvay went with a short passing game, emphasizing stretching the field horizontally to make up for Goff's
poor consistency throwing deep. Also giving him more bootleg passing op's because that's a area that Goff
does well in, because his accuracy is better on the run and it cuts the field in half to simplify reads.

Mcvay has run plenty of spread through Goff's career, but Goff struggled recognizing blitzes and hitting his hot's

The bottom line is McVay's system along with Shanny and Lefleur's systems are the most QB friendly systems
in football.
And yet this is all McVay's fault.

but I bet you anything that the offensive play calling will be 90% the same since 2017 with Stafford. Mcvay isn't gonna change his offense for any player.

I think it will be about 80% the same, because he will be able to actually run the entire playbook under Stafford.

 

[Giles]

It was well publicized.
Mcvay went with a short passing game, emphasizing stretching the field horizontally to make up for Goff's
poor consistency throwing deep. Also giving him more bootleg passing op's because that's a area that Goff
does well in, because his accuracy is better on the run and it cuts the field in half to simplify reads.

Mcvay has run plenty of spread through Goff's career, but Goff struggled recognizing blitzes and hitting his hot's

The bottom line is McVay's system along with Shanny and Lefleur's systems are the most QB friendly systems
in football.
And yet this is all McVay's fault.


I think it will be about 80% the same, because he will be able to actually run the entire playbook under Stafford.

So just because the media says something that means it's true? Goff has never been a dink and dunk quarterback....ever and yes it's mcvays fault for ignoring a oline going on 3 years in a row now for a pocket passer. But we'll just agree to disagree no point in talking to someone who thinks mcvay can do no wrong and blames Goff for everything. Mcvay did plenty wrong in that relationship.

 

[CoachAllred]

Just throwing this in for anyone who is continuing to follow Goff's career.​

Pretty interesting that Mark Brunell will be Goff's qb coach.
Hate we let the lions snag Aubrey Pleasant. A lot of inexperienced coaches on this roster.

​

​

Why did Lions' Dan Campbell fill out his staff with so many ex-players?​

There's something unusual about the staff Detroit Lions coach Dan Campbell is putting together.

Before he decided to go into coaching, Campbell had a decade-long NFL career, appearing in 114 games for three teams. And after he joined the Lions last month, the first hire he made was naming Aaron Glenn defensive coordinator. A former first-round draft pick, Glenn earned All-Pro honors three times during his 15-year career before retiring in 2009.

Since then, Campbell has added several other former players to his budding staff.

Offensive coordinator Anthony Lynn played six seasons as a backup running back and top special teams contributor. Running-backs coach and assistant head coach Duce Staley spent 10 seasons with the Steelers and Eagles. And quarterback coach Mark Brunnel played 17 seasons, including three Pro Bowl campaigns as a member of the Jacksonville Jaguars.

Additionally, Hank Fraley, a 10-year veteran, was among the small number of coaches Campbell retained from the previous staff.

Those six coaches collectively appeared in 851 games during their careers. And while there's no easily searchable records to paint of a complete picture of the context, you'd be hard-pressed to find a similarly experienced staff in recent NFL history.

And with three position coach jobs still to fill, and Hines Ward reportedly in the mix to lead Detroit's receivers, even more playing experience could be added to the staff in the near future.

According to Campbell, the recurring appearance of that trait has been coincidental.


"I didn't write I'm just getting ex-players or find as ex-players as you can," Campbell told the Detroit News. "I really didn't go in with that process. I honestly did not think that way. In my head, I said, 'Where do I find these outstanding men of character, first?' No different than what (team owner) Sheila (Ford Hamp) did. She kind of set the tone. I'm like, how do I carry on what she wants" I wanted to find the best people I can find, high in character, that are outstanding coaches, right?"

What Campbell did acknowledge is there is an inherent drive with those coaches. Not only did they show the competitiveness to stick in the NFL for as long as they did as players, but also the willingness to work their way back up from the bottom after transitioning into coaching.

"(Glenn) was getting coffees for guys," Campbell said. "'Go get coffee. Go pick up this guy at the airport. Do this paperwork.' He had to start all over. A Lynn had to start all over. Duce had to start all over. So all these guys, to me, when you have a wealth of experience, you played the position, you're an outstanding person, you're an outstanding coach, but then you had to start all over, you have the grit and desire and hunger to learn and grow and do all these things. I don't know how you miss on guys like that."


Among the assistants he's hired, Campbell had a prior relationship with several. Most obviously, he worked with Glenn the past several seasons in New Orleans. With Lynn and Brunnel, there was brief overlap from Campbell's playing days.

Others, like Staley and defensive backs coach Aubrey Pleasant — who started at the University of Wisconsin, but never played in the NFL — are new connections for Campbell.

It doesn't matter where they're coming from, the goal is to piece together the best staff possible. Campbell's expectation for excellence is two-fold — first, character, second, coaching acumen. Being average in either facet is an immediate disqualifier.

"I swore up and down that I was not going to, if I got in this seat again, I refused, even if he's an outstanding person, which I know plenty of them, an outstanding person who coaches, but he's an average coach, I'm not doing it," Campbell said. That's how you create average players. These were going to be top-notch people who were top-notch coaches, across the board.

"These guys, they're going to know how to develop talent and they're outstanding human beings," Campbell added. "I have not brought in one guy that I've said, 'Outstanding coach, he's OK as a guy.' That's not happened one time. It's gotta be both, man."

jdrogers@detroitnews.com

Twitter: @Justin_Rogers

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

this is debatable, I've seen Goff go thru his reads many times, not last year as he was put in the position of rolling left of right because of Blythe's limitations, but definitely in 2017 and 18 when Rams had a John Sullivan playing center.
train

Not under pressure. Add poor pocket awareness too.

 

[Tano]

It was well publicized.
Mcvay went with a short passing game, emphasizing stretching the field horizontally to make up for Goff's
poor consistency throwing deep. Also giving him more bootleg passing op's because that's a area that Goff
does well in, because his accuracy is better on the run and it cuts the field in half to simplify reads.

IMO - it had more to do with Blythe's poor pass blocking ability than Goff's ability to throw deeper passes. Goff was extremely accurate on the 10 - 20 yard passes which is more of a mid-length throw. So McVay didn't go to a short passing game because of that, he had to go short because of Blythe. Sorry I have to blame one person but the Jets game really showed me how poor of a blocker Blythe is against strong rushers. Everytime they had a third and long, Blythe allowed his guy to pressure Goff. The one time McVay had someone going deep in the first half in that game (pass 20 yards), Blythe's guy hit Goffs arm right when Goff was going to throw a TD pass to Jefferson who was wide open on that play. McVay was forced to do quick passes and bootlegs so Goff would not get pressured by Blythe's guy.

 

[PARAM]

Trading two insanely overrated first round picks doesn't change much in terms of expectations.

Sure it does. It's not that they're over rated. They under rated by the Rams. But still, trading 2 first round picks raises expectations or at least, it should.

 

[CoachAllred]

IMO - it had more to do with Blythe's poor pass blocking ability than Goff's ability to throw deeper passes. Goff was extremely accurate on the 10 - 20 yard passes which is more of a mid-length throw. So McVay didn't go to a short passing game because of that, he had to go short because of Blythe. Sorry I have to blame one person but the Jets game really showed me how poor of a blocker Blythe is against strong rushers. Everytime they had a third and long, Blythe allowed his guy to pressure Goff. The one time McVay had someone going deep in the first half in that game (pass 20 yards), Blythe's guy hit Goffs arm right when Goff was going to throw a TD pass to Jefferson who was wide open on that play. McVay was forced to do quick passes and bootlegs so Goff would not get pressured by Blythe's guy.

You definitely Present some very valid points.
Blyth was bad, but there was Changes put in the system due to Goff's 2019 dropoff.
I could go as far as a combination of reasons for the changes, but I would have as hard of time putting it all on
Blythe, as you may putting it on Goff.
Either way I enjoyed your feedback.

I am very glad that Blyth is gone and can't wait to see Corbett. We will be bigger up front and I hear Mcvay plans to
Inject even more power schemes in addition to our zone.

I hate to say it ,but I am envious at times watching the sheer violence in shannys running attack.
I really hope that this is a direction that Mcvay is heading.