Covid 19 thread

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SWAdude

And don't call me Shirley
Joined
May 23, 2018
Messages
519
My lord has this gone sideways.

This entire exercise went from overwhelming health care facilities to waiting for a cure. Which just is not possible without destroying everything else. And an unreasonable approach.

How about we get back to preventing the healthcare system getting overwhelmed. As we open up spikes should be expected. But are they spikes that are going to overwhelm our ability to care for those who become ill? In our community we had no curve to flatten. Our local health network that serves about 500,000 announced yesterday that they have had more suicides during this lockdown than Covid deaths. Another curious statistic is there has been a shortage of organ donations due to lesser accidents naturally happening.

Trying to control our behavior is not going to work. Allowing others to judge how much risk they want to take with who they are will work just fine. Epidemics occurring as they did in a poorly managed New York or Northern Italy is HIGHLY unlikely.

We all need to refocus on the original objective.
 

flv

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...You cannot get back to normalcy immediately, you take some steps in phases and I don't care if people like or not, that is how to do it the right way and it will save lives.
It's a great theory but I don't see the public accepting it or governments being able to enforce it. Where I am, (almost) everything government or local council run/funded is closed and, (almost), everything in the private sector is open, albeit on reduced hours and I expect those hours to return to normal next week. Obviously things like cinemas and football matches, basically anything with mandatory crowds, is still closed. Traffic levels are between 80-90% of what they were pre-shutdown.
 

12intheBox

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Sep 12, 2013
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6,903
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Wil Fay
No
I said I'm more interested in the other states. Because they have an economic and systemic impact to the rest of the country.
Read much?

Another cute effort to make an argument that isnt there, typical
I have tried to engage without snark but I'm not getting much reciprocity.

Words mean things. Compare has a meaning. When you say "I [sic] more interested to know why DC, Chicago and Boston have been affected less then NYC proper" whether or not you use the word 'compare' you are, in fact, comparing DC, Chicago, and Boston to NYC. In this specific case you are comparing the level of the affect of COVID on these areas. And it is worthwhile to do so - again, these comparisons can be a useful tool in determining what types of restrictions or other ideas can be effective in beating this thing.

You: "There is/was no way to prevent the outbreak. Gloves, masks, testing etc are nothing more than putting band aids on wounds that require 50 stitches"
Me: "C'mon now. The gloves and the masks and the testing aren't meant to treat the stinking virus, they are to slow down the spread of it. This entire effort - all of the social distancing - the closures, the masks, the gloves - all of this is designed to try to stop this virus from spreading wildly from human to human. That IS the way to prevent an outbreak."
You: "Another cute effort to make an argument that isnt there, typical"

What argument was there? Band aids are for boo boos - after the boo boo has already happened - so are stitches. Social Distancing is preventative - it is like wearing a seat belt. How am I making an argument that isn't there, and what is typical about it? Am I treating you unfairly? Am I peppering my responses with snarky comments like, 'read much?'

I get that you want to stay positive - and there is a place for that.

I get that you think that blaming the people who were in a position to mitigate this is also unhelpful, and I can disagree agreeably on that point.

I would simply appreciate it if you didn't talk down as much to opinions that differ from your own.
 

bluecoconuts

Legend
Joined
May 28, 2011
Messages
12,211
I wore PPE in country the same reason why I wear PPE outside now.

The threat is different but the threat is there. Maybe some people like to get sick to prove some sort of point of how tough they are, but I'm of the opinion that if I'm sick I'm not ready to fight, and if I'm not ready to fight then I'm at the mercy of someone else of my own protection.

And I take that shit into my own hands.

But that's just me.
 
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dieterbrock

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Jan 3, 2013
Messages
12,213
I have tried to engage without snark but I'm not getting much reciprocity.

Words mean things. Compare has a meaning. When you say "I [sic] more interested to know why DC, Chicago and Boston have been affected less then NYC proper" whether or not you use the word 'compare' you are, in fact, comparing DC, Chicago, and Boston to NYC. In this specific case you are comparing the level of the affect of COVID on these areas. And it is worthwhile to do so - again, these comparisons can be a useful tool in determining what types of restrictions or other ideas can be effective in beating this thing.

You: "There is/was no way to prevent the outbreak. Gloves, masks, testing etc are nothing more than putting band aids on wounds that require 50 stitches"
Me: "C'mon now. The gloves and the masks and the testing aren't meant to treat the stinking virus, they are to slow down the spread of it. This entire effort - all of the social distancing - the closures, the masks, the gloves - all of this is designed to try to stop this virus from spreading wildly from human to human. That IS the way to prevent an outbreak."
You: "Another cute effort to make an argument that isnt there, typical"

What argument was there? Band aids are for boo boos - after the boo boo has already happened - so are stitches. Social Distancing is preventative - it is like wearing a seat belt. How am I making an argument that isn't there, and what is typical about it? Am I treating you unfairly? Am I peppering my responses with snarky comments like, 'read much?'

I get that you want to stay positive - and there is a place for that.

I get that you think that blaming the people who were in a position to mitigate this is also unhelpful, and I can disagree agreeably on that point.

I would simply appreciate it if you didn't talk down as much to opinions that differ from your own.
You're pathetic.
Have an adult explain what I've said since you clearly arent capable.
 

Ramhusker

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Bo Bowen
High School sports in Georgia are opening up June 8th. I’m sure there will be plenty of restrictions but it’s time to start moving forward some. Things are still cloudy since now positive Antibody tests have been mixed in with active cases. As if things weren’t confusing enough already, the water is further muddied.
 

1maGoh

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Aug 10, 2013
Messages
2,569
I concur and you already see that in the State of Georgia & Texas where they opened it back up especially with the churches and now they are spiking again. You have to keep your distance and if things open back up, you have to limit participants. The drive in in Fort Worth Texas is an excellent example as they are only allowing 25% capacity and that is how you do things the right way.

You cannot get back to normalcy immediately, you take some steps in phases and I don't care if people like or not, that is how to do it the right way and it will save lives.
Where are you getting into that says Texas is spiking again? My boss provides a weekly report about this to my whole department and the data doesn't show a spike. There's an article from a few days ago about how we had our highest daily number of new cases, but further research shows that it wasn't a spike and it wasn't a trend. They sent additional tests to places they already believed to be highly infected. It wasn't a spike in new cases from opening up, it was a spline from confirming what already existed that we hadn't bothered to confirm before. In addition, it wasn't actually that much higher than the preceding days and there was a noticable dropoff in the days after. While you may say that fits the definition of a spike, it wasn't caused by reopening. It's a good news narrative, but it's inaccurate.
 

Elmgrovegnome

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Jan 23, 2013
Messages
12,622
Our county here in NE PA is going green on Memorial Day. I guess we will find out if it 's a good idea pretty quickly.


recently I read that the FED and FEW both have found that Covid19 is not easily acquired by touching surfaces as first reported.
 

Angry Ram

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Joined
Jul 1, 2010
Messages
11,753
Where are you getting into that says Texas is spiking again? My boss provides a weekly report about this to my whole department and the data doesn't show a spike. There's an article from a few days ago about how we had our highest daily number of new cases, but further research shows that it wasn't a spike and it wasn't a trend. They sent additional tests to places they already believed to be highly infected. It wasn't a spike in new cases from opening up, it was a spline from confirming what already existed that we hadn't bothered to confirm before. In addition, it wasn't actually that much higher than the preceding days and there was a noticable dropoff in the days after. While you may say that fits the definition of a spike, it wasn't caused by reopening. It's a good news narrative, but it's inaccurate.
That spike was was 1800 cases, but 40% of those were targeted testing at meat plants in a couple counties near Amarillo. So 1000 over this big ass state? Please. And it's decreases since.
 
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XXXIVwin

Pro Bowler
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Jun 1, 2015
Messages
1,898
I have tried to engage without snark but I'm not getting much reciprocity.

Words mean things. Compare has a meaning. When you say "I [sic] more interested to know why DC, Chicago and Boston have been affected less then NYC proper" whether or not you use the word 'compare' you are, in fact, comparing DC, Chicago, and Boston to NYC. In this specific case you are comparing the level of the affect of COVID on these areas. And it is worthwhile to do so - again, these comparisons can be a useful tool in determining what types of restrictions or other ideas can be effective in beating this thing.

You: "There is/was no way to prevent the outbreak. Gloves, masks, testing etc are nothing more than putting band aids on wounds that require 50 stitches"
Me: "C'mon now. The gloves and the masks and the testing aren't meant to treat the stinking virus, they are to slow down the spread of it. This entire effort - all of the social distancing - the closures, the masks, the gloves - all of this is designed to try to stop this virus from spreading wildly from human to human. That IS the way to prevent an outbreak."
You: "Another cute effort to make an argument that isnt there, typical"

What argument was there? Band aids are for boo boos - after the boo boo has already happened - so are stitches. Social Distancing is preventative - it is like wearing a seat belt. How am I making an argument that isn't there, and what is typical about it? Am I treating you unfairly? Am I peppering my responses with snarky comments like, 'read much?'

I get that you want to stay positive - and there is a place for that.

I get that you think that blaming the people who were in a position to mitigate this is also unhelpful, and I can disagree agreeably on that point.

I would simply appreciate it if you didn't talk down as much to opinions that differ from your own.
Others of us see you trying to engage with civility, respect, and patience. When all you get are snotty churlish responses, it’s proof that some people just aren’t worth the effort.

I’m all for a good debate, but civility and respect are a two way street.
 
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dieterbrock

Legend
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Messages
12,213
Where are you getting into that says Texas is spiking again? My boss provides a weekly report about this to my whole department and the data doesn't show a spike. There's an article from a few days ago about how we had our highest daily number of new cases, but further research shows that it wasn't a spike and it wasn't a trend. They sent additional tests to places they already believed to be highly infected. It wasn't a spike in new cases from opening up, it was a spline from confirming what already existed that we hadn't bothered to confirm before. In addition, it wasn't actually that much higher than the preceding days and there was a noticable dropoff in the days after. While you may say that fits the definition of a spike, it wasn't caused by reopening. It's a good news narrative, but it's inaccurate.
Looks like there was some sort of data recalibration, overall I dont see where there's a spike. approx 5,200 new positives in last 7 days, was over 8k the week before, 6,500 week before that....

EDIT- I see the clarification above from @Angry Ram
Nicely done.

Also, I dont see the spike in Georgia's numbers either
4,100 positive cases in last 7 days
4,100 positive cases the week prior
3,900 positive cases week prior to that
 
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dieterbrock

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Jan 3, 2013
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Others of us see you trying to engage with civility, respect, and patience. When all you get are snotty churlish responses, it’s proof that some people just aren’t worth the effort.

I’m all for a good debate, but civility and respect are a two way street.
Yeah so just give Chill-
Talk about childish.
Par for the course though.
 

1maGoh

Hall of Fame
Joined
Aug 10, 2013
Messages
2,569
Looks like there was some sort of data recalibration, overall I dont see where there's a spike. approx 5,200 new positives in last 7 days, was over 8k the week before, 6,500 week before that....

EDIT- I see the clarification above from @Angry Ram
Nicely done.

Also, I dont see the spike in Georgia's numbers either
4,100 positive cases in last 7 days
4,100 positive cases the week prior
3,900 positive cases week prior to that
A spike is the one that's totally flat right?
 
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XXXIVwin

Pro Bowler
Joined
Jun 1, 2015
Messages
1,898
My lord has this gone sideways.

This entire exercise went from overwhelming health care facilities to waiting for a cure. Which just is not possible without destroying everything else. And an unreasonable approach.

How about we get back to preventing the healthcare system getting overwhelmed. As we open up spikes should be expected. But are they spikes that are going to overwhelm our ability to care for those who become ill? In our community we had no curve to flatten. Our local health network that serves about 500,000 announced yesterday that they have had more suicides during this lockdown than Covid deaths. Another curious statistic is there has been a shortage of organ donations due to lesser accidents naturally happening.

Trying to control our behavior is not going to work. Allowing others to judge how much risk they want to take with who they are will work just fine. Epidemics occurring as they did in a poorly managed New York or Northern Italy is HIGHLY unlikely.

We all need to refocus on the original objective.
IMHO, the debate doesn't need to be between "open everything up and go for it" and "shelter in place until January and the vaccine."

Ideally, now should be the time to open up slowly-- but with sensible safeguards. Those safeguard should include, among others:

--Testing for everyone
--PPE for all healthcare workers and caregivers
--Contact tracing and quarantine of new outbreaks
--Continued use of masks and appropriate social distancing precautions
--Availability of proven antiviral drugs (not a vaccine, just drugs that lessen symptoms)
--Continued protection of especially vulnerable populations

To what extent have these safeguards been met? And how efficient have we been in meeting these standards? That's where the debate is, IMHO.
 
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flv

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IMHO, the debate doesn't need to be between "open everything up and go for it" and "shelter in place until January and the vaccine."

Ideally, now should be the time to open up slowly-- but with sensible safeguards. Those safeguard should include, among others:

--Testing for everyone
--PPE for all healthcare workers and caregivers
--Contact tracing and quarantine of new outbreaks
--Continued use of masks and appropriate social distancing precautions
--Availability of proven antiviral drugs (not a vaccine, just drugs that lessen symptoms)
--Continued protection of especially vulnerable populations

To what extent have these safeguards been met? And how efficient have we been in meeting these standards? That's where the debate is, IMHO.
In theory that all makes sense. Unfortunately reality isn't going to mesh with that theory. Testing is fine but a negative test today won't mean anything 7 days from now. Tracing is only going to be effective if you chip and pin the entire human population in your area. Tracing is probably viable on smart phones but the majority of those in the vulnerable groups don't have smart phones. Social distancing makes sense but it's impractical in factories, schools, airplanes, and a lot of other situations. If you absolutely have to be inside the distancing guidelines for any length of time then masks will be ineffective, (and they're impractical for those who wear glasses). The long-term effects of given people drugs for ailments they don't have on the grounds of possibly preventing a disease the drugs aren't designed for is another unknown. Who is to say the unnecessary use of those drugs won't be worse long-term? Even if it's better it's still expensive and difficult to implement.

I'm not saying you're wrong and i'm not providing better solutions. What I am saying is people here in the South of England seem to have decided they're going to get on with their lives regardless of what the Government decides. I don't suppose we're that different from other groups of people. Good luck trying to stop them or enforce new restrictions.
 
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