Coach McVay Discussion

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thirteen28

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We all agree the line is bad... and there were a number of times Goff had no chance.

But the INT's he threw- neither were under duress.

But the pressure is still the problem, because it prevents a QB from getting into rhythm and making plays when they do have a clean pocket. When they get hit a lot and sacked a number of times, that gets into their thinking and they have to start mentally planning for pressure even on plays when it doesn't get there.

Hell, Tom Brady took an 18-0 team into the Super Bowl, with great weapons, and an offense that was the highest scoring in league history. But against the Giants that day he got hit a bunch of times, and sacked several times. The pressure affected even him to where he made a lot of bad throws even on plays where he did have a clean pocket.

You can't look at plays in isolation, you have to look at how consistent your OL is. And when it's very inconsistent, or consistently bad, it's going to negatively affect your QB play even on those rare snaps when he does have a clean pocket.
 

RamFanWA

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It may have been stated already, but I am not seeing half time adjustments by McVay for this offense. Earlier in the year, I saw this - now, not so much.
 

Ellard80

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But the pressure is still the problem, because it prevents a QB from getting into rhythm and making plays when they do have a clean pocket. When they get hit a lot and sacked a number of times, that gets into their thinking and they have to start mentally planning for pressure even on plays when it doesn't get there.

Hell, Tom Brady took an 18-0 team into the Super Bowl, with great weapons, and an offense that was the highest scoring in league history. But against the Giants that day he got hit a bunch of times, and sacked several times. The pressure affected even him to where he made a lot of bad throws even on plays where he did have a clean pocket.

You can't look at plays in isolation, you have to look at how consistent your OL is. And when it's very inconsistent, or consistently bad, it's going to negatively affect your QB play even on those rare snaps when he does have a clean pocket.

Yeah I understand that be pressured can have a residual effect on the passer. However each play it its own play and great players have to find a way to overcome the "bad memories" of earlier plays.
 

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Hell, Tom Brady took an 18-0 team into the Super Bowl, with great weapons, and an offense that was the highest scoring in league history. But against the Giants that day he got hit a bunch of times, and sacked several times. The pressure affected even him to where he made a lot of bad throws even on plays where he did have a clean pocket.

If Brady didn't have an injured foot the Patriots win that game. The Giants knew he was in a walking boot up to the SB and the Giants DC, our dear friend Steve Spagnoulo, came after him as hard as he could knowing he was not going to be able to move in the pocket very well.
 

Ellard80

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Sorry I just find it funny that we all think we know how to outsmart a defense more than Sean McVay or the defensive players involved.

McVay of course is the head coach and the buck stops with him.... I'm not saying he is above any criticism.

But it's just all comedy to me. I have a friend who was a D1 division coordinator and I've had some interesting discussions with him. Just get into a discussion with a real football coach sometime and you will realize that we don't know shit.
 

TK42-RAM

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I have faith that McVay will work hard to get us back to where we want to be.

We haven't played well this season - and the coach is a big part of this, however we have been competitive in all our games bar the TB debacle.

If not for a late FG miss v Seahawks and a poor fumble call v Steelers we may be 7-2 and not 5-4.

Even with a beat up / dysfunctional O-Line we can beat the Bears.
 

Merlin

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I'm not sure who you want benching outside of Demby. They don't have many options. Who do want to be benched and who do you want to replace them?
They were slow to bench Peters. Last season when Talib was out anyone would have been better as he wasn't playing the calls or doing anything positive in coverage. Same deal this season.

Blythe should have been benched. He has been abysmal. Now they need him at Center but from early this season they stuck with him.

Havenstein has whiffed all season on the edge. Moving him inside should have happened earlier.

Boom and Allen I understand as they are young and learning but it could be argued that each needed to sit during different games.

Gurley had games where he was left in when he was missing holes and breaking to the sideline on multiple occasions. When that happens you sit him and give the depth the rest of the day's snaps.

Demby of course went on way too long. It was unconscionable how many opportunities he was given when it was obvious he is not a starter.

Rams have slogans all over their facilities about perfomance being the standard. But when you allow guys to stay in there when not performing game after game or even snap after snap you render those slogans meaningless.
 

LARAMSinFeb.

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If Brady didn't have an injured foot the Patriots win that game. The Giants knew he was in a walking boot up to the SB and the Giants DC, our dear friend Steve Spagnoulo, came after him as hard as he could knowing he was not going to be able to move in the pocket very well.

On the other hand, it'd be kind of dumb not to adjust to and incorporate what happened in previous plays.
 

Ram65

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They were slow to bench Peters. Last season when Talib was out anyone would have been better as he wasn't playing the calls or doing anything positive in coverage. Same deal this season.

Blythe should have been benched. He has been abysmal. Now they need him at Center but from early this season they stuck with him.

Havenstein has whiffed all season on the edge. Moving him inside should have happened earlier.

Boom and Allen I understand as they are young and learning but it could be argued that each needed to sit during different games.

Gurley had games where he was left in when he was missing holes and breaking to the sideline on multiple occasions. When that happens you sit him and give the depth the rest of the day's snaps.

Demby of course went on way too long. It was unconscionable how many opportunities he was given when it was obvious he is not a starter.

Rams have slogans all over their facilities about perfomance being the standard. But when you allow guys to stay in there when not performing game after game or even snap after snap you render those slogans meaningless.

Interesting thanks for not holding back. Hard to replace the entire offensive line with the unproven rookies. We will get to see some new faces with recent injuries. Could be we see some other changes before the season is over.

Peters came back to help the Rams get to the SB. He seemed to be mailing it in this year.
 

Merlin

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Interesting thanks for not holding back. Hard to replace the entire offensive line with the unproven rookies. We will get to see some new faces with recent injuries. Could be we see some other changes before the season is over.

Peters came back to help the Rams get to the SB. He seemed to be mailing it in this year.
I think it's important to look at each example in its moment of time.

At the beginning of the season for example when Blythe was terrible (after being terrible in the Super Bowl and down the stretch of the regular season) and after Edwards was our best OL in preseason, they could have sat Blythe. This would accomplish what I am suggesting re: performance being the standard right out the gate.

Or after game 4 or so they could have moved Havenstein inside to OG when it was clear he could not handle speed rushes and was getting worked in every game. Moving him inside and sitting Blythe for example, with Edwards going in at RT might have improved this line immensely.

Also it's not about replacing the entire OL btw, in fact this is seen across the roster and began after they traded for Peters. It's about performance being the standard in deed not just words. IMO our young HC got lost a bit on that along the way and I feel like the trade of Peters and Talib were moves to right that particular ship but there is a lot of work left to do.

Lastly want to point out it's tough to discuss this stuff without making it sound like we're teeing off on our coach. That's not the goal but I do think it's worth the effort. How can he improve is the key, and ensuring that standard is met is really crucial to my eye at least.
 

thirteen28

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If Brady didn't have an injured foot the Patriots win that game. The Giants knew he was in a walking boot up to the SB and the Giants DC, our dear friend Steve Spagnoulo, came after him as hard as he could knowing he was not going to be able to move in the pocket very well.

Maybe, maybe not. But either way, he did not have a clean pocket for much of the day, and it really threw off his game and cost them a chance at a perfect season.

As for Spags and his gameplan that day ...


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNMT4AYf6Xo
 

gabriel18

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But the defense knows this as well as you do - I remember us tryign two screens in that game and both times the defense had it sniffed out.

The check downs or screens to Gurley are hard to watch . Its either a terrible throw or a lackluster effort to catch it . Last year those plays went for first downs or more . Frustrating
 
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ScotsRam

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They might as well trade Gurley get whatever they can and watch him go on and become the old Gurley for a team that’s go use him.

Not picking on you specifically friend, just looking for a quote that sums up a lot of what others have said here and in other threads.

That said, do people honestly think that McVay wouldnt utilise Gurley the way he did in the first part of his tenure if Gurley could handle that?

Gurley's done as a workhorse back. It's blindingly obvious. He has extremely limited trade value because everyone can see he's not what he was, and on top of that he has a massive contract. We aren't playing Madden here.

My view is this - naivety/poor planning with the make-up of this years O-line is the single biggest issue, and McVay shares that responsibility with Les and other decision makers within the organisation.

There is other context that explains some of this too. 5-4 in any other division looks a good record, and nobody saw the 9ers coming. We have never had tremendous depth but we have been very lucky with injuries this past 2 years since McVay has come and it's not that way this season.

There are 31 other teams trying to win too guys, sheesh. And it's so recent that we were so bad, we would have all bitten our hands off for a 5-4 record 5 years ago. I guess I expected more patience from our fanbase than this.

Rant over.
 

Merlin

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That said, do people honestly think that McVay wouldnt utilise Gurley the way he did in the first part of his tenure if Gurley could handle that?

Gurley's done as a workhorse back. It's blindingly obvious. He has extremely limited trade value because everyone can see he's not what he was, and on top of that he has a massive contract. We aren't playing Madden here.
I have to agree. That workhorse is what we are missing, the stability at the position. We can't trust Brown to stay healthy or in the game which makes it worse, and Hendy is a rook so limited a bit in pass pro and probably the play book.

Hendy's time is coming. But I still feel like Snead should have signed CJ Anderson. He's just a great fit for this scheme and would have given the Rams that workhorse they lack. Suspect there's a story involved behind the scenes in all that and probably had to do with CJ wanting dedicated carries. Irony is that if we signed him now he'd get them.
 

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View: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2862357-mike-freemans-10-point-stance-once-super-rams-sliding-into-uncertain-future

Once Super, Rams Sliding into Uncertain Future
Mike FreemanNovember 13, 2019

The Rams' problems will not be easily fixed, the Steelers' not-so-secret weapon and why the Chiefs and 49ers may not last long in the playoffs. All that and more in this week's 10-Point Stance.

1. Rams turning to sheep
After the Rams' humiliating loss to Pittsburgh on Sunday, running back Todd Gurley II was asked about his usage in the second half, when he had just six touches for 38 yards. Gurley didn't touch the ball once in the fourth quarter. His response was telling."I'm used to it," he said.

That's not the answer you want to hear from your franchise back, but it also shed light on one of the greatest mysteries surrounding the reigning NFC champions: Why is a team that was one of the most dominant last year now disintegrating before our eyes?

Heading into Week 11, the Rams are 5-4 and in third place in the NFC West. They are, unbelievably, in danger of missing the playoffs.Two AFC scouts who have watched Los Angeles closely the past two seasons said the Rams' struggles are complex, but one thing that stands out is that head coach Sean McVay has yet to find any solutions.

"He's an excellent coach," one of the scouts said, "but he's massively struggling right now. No coach in the NFL is struggling right now as much as he is."
One of the best indicators of McVay's struggles was how wide receiver Cooper Kupp went without a catch against the Steelers. That seems as if it should be almost statistically impossible.

So what's happening? The scouts say the Rams' issues fall into four categories:
• Coaching: All of McVay's moves that worked last year aren't working now. The scouts say McVay needs to make some drastic moves to shake things up.
• Gurley: His decline is one of the most confusing aspects of the team's struggles and a genuine puzzle. Gurley doesn't have the same burst he did last year (possibly because of injuries), but the game plan has also de-emphasized his usage. Through eight games, Gurley is averaging 13 carries per game, five fewer than last season.

The Rams have to make a decision. Either go all-in on Gurley, or don't. They can't do both.
• Offensive line: It was one of the NFL's best last year, but it is now easily one of the worst. The interior of the line is a particular problem, which likely has contributed to the team's problems running the ball. Against Pittsburgh, the line was blown back on almost every play.

• Jared Goff: One of the scouts said the Rams' fourth-year quarterback is "playing scared, and I get it. He's getting hit almost every pass play." He believes Goff is shell-shocked by the poor line play and the physical beating he's taking. Last season, Goff was hit 34 times all season while passing, according to Pro Football Reference. That tally is already up to 30 this year, and he still has seven games to play.

Goff is a solid quarterback, but he currently has an 82.7 quarterback rating, which is lower than Jameis Winston, Joe Flacco, Mitchell Trubisky and Marcus Mariota (who got benched).
There's time to turn things around in L.A., but not much. If something doesn't change soon, the Rams will be watching the playoffs from the comfort of their sofas at home and left wondering how a franchise seemingly headed for a long run of success has taken so many steps back.

2. Prescription for a rebound

ATLANTA, GA - OCTOBER 20: Head coach Sean McVay of the Los Angeles Rams looks on during the second half of a game against the Atlanta Falcons at Mercedes-Benz Stadium on October 20, 2019 in Atlanta, Georgia. (Photo by Carmen Mandato/Getty Images)

Carmen Mandato/Getty Images
The uncomfortable truth about the Rams is that the only thing that might shake them out of their malaise may be wholesale changes.
Better play from the offensive line would help, or a change of personnel there.
So would increasing the number of touches for Gurley or, again, perhaps a change of personnel. If Malcolm Brown can get things moving on the ground more than Gurley, then Gurley should take a seat on the bench for now. And yes, if Goff keeps struggling, consider benching him, too. No, Blake Bortles isn't the answer, but when a talented team struggles like this, a coach needs to consider all of his options.

Those, of course, are short-term solutions. The bigger issue is not so easily fixed, and that is the possibility that two of the team's biggest recent contractual moves—giving Gurley a four-year, $57.5 million extension and Goff a four-year, $134 million extension—were wildly wrong.

That's easy to say now, and to be fair, I didn't think those were bad decisions at the time or are now. The Rams had to sign them both when they did, and they gave each the going rate.However, both players are massively underperforming.
It isn't all their fault, but they are a huge part of the problem. And when players sign for that kind of money, they are supposed to be solutions to other problems, not become issues in and of themselves.
 

thirteen28

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View: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2862357-mike-freemans-10-point-stance-once-super-rams-sliding-into-uncertain-future

Once Super, Rams Sliding into Uncertain Future
Mike FreemanNovember 13, 2019

The Rams' problems will not be easily fixed, the Steelers' not-so-secret weapon and why the Chiefs and 49ers may not last long in the playoffs. All that and more in this week's 10-Point Stance.

1. Rams turning to sheep
After the Rams' humiliating loss to Pittsburgh on Sunday, running back Todd Gurley II was asked about his usage in the second half, when he had just six touches for 38 yards. Gurley didn't touch the ball once in the fourth quarter. His response was telling."I'm used to it," he said.

That's not the answer you want to hear from your franchise back, but it also shed light on one of the greatest mysteries surrounding the reigning NFC champions: Why is a team that was one of the most dominant last year now disintegrating before our eyes?

Heading into Week 11, the Rams are 5-4 and in third place in the NFC West. They are, unbelievably, in danger of missing the playoffs.Two AFC scouts who have watched Los Angeles closely the past two seasons said the Rams' struggles are complex, but one thing that stands out is that head coach Sean McVay has yet to find any solutions.

"He's an excellent coach," one of the scouts said, "but he's massively struggling right now. No coach in the NFL is struggling right now as much as he is."
One of the best indicators of McVay's struggles was how wide receiver Cooper Kupp went without a catch against the Steelers. That seems as if it should be almost statistically impossible.

So what's happening? The scouts say the Rams' issues fall into four categories:
• Coaching: All of McVay's moves that worked last year aren't working now. The scouts say McVay needs to make some drastic moves to shake things up.
• Gurley: His decline is one of the most confusing aspects of the team's struggles and a genuine puzzle. Gurley doesn't have the same burst he did last year (possibly because of injuries), but the game plan has also de-emphasized his usage. Through eight games, Gurley is averaging 13 carries per game, five fewer than last season.

The Rams have to make a decision. Either go all-in on Gurley, or don't. They can't do both.
• Offensive line: It was one of the NFL's best last year, but it is now easily one of the worst. The interior of the line is a particular problem, which likely has contributed to the team's problems running the ball. Against Pittsburgh, the line was blown back on almost every play.

• Jared Goff: One of the scouts said the Rams' fourth-year quarterback is "playing scared, and I get it. He's getting hit almost every pass play." He believes Goff is shell-shocked by the poor line play and the physical beating he's taking. Last season, Goff was hit 34 times all season while passing, according to Pro Football Reference. That tally is already up to 30 this year, and he still has seven games to play.

Goff is a solid quarterback, but he currently has an 82.7 quarterback rating, which is lower than Jameis Winston, Joe Flacco, Mitchell Trubisky and Marcus Mariota (who got benched).
There's time to turn things around in L.A., but not much. If something doesn't change soon, the Rams will be watching the playoffs from the comfort of their sofas at home and left wondering how a franchise seemingly headed for a long run of success has taken so many steps back.

2. Prescription for a rebound

ATLANTA, GA - OCTOBER 20: Head coach Sean McVay of the Los Angeles Rams looks on during the second half of a game against the Atlanta Falcons at Mercedes-Benz Stadium on October 20, 2019 in Atlanta, Georgia. (Photo by Carmen Mandato/Getty Images)

Carmen Mandato/Getty Images
The uncomfortable truth about the Rams is that the only thing that might shake them out of their malaise may be wholesale changes.
Better play from the offensive line would help, or a change of personnel there.
So would increasing the number of touches for Gurley or, again, perhaps a change of personnel. If Malcolm Brown can get things moving on the ground more than Gurley, then Gurley should take a seat on the bench for now. And yes, if Goff keeps struggling, consider benching him, too. No, Blake Bortles isn't the answer, but when a talented team struggles like this, a coach needs to consider all of his options.

Those, of course, are short-term solutions. The bigger issue is not so easily fixed, and that is the possibility that two of the team's biggest recent contractual moves—giving Gurley a four-year, $57.5 million extension and Goff a four-year, $134 million extension—were wildly wrong.

That's easy to say now, and to be fair, I didn't think those were bad decisions at the time or are now. The Rams had to sign them both when they did, and they gave each the going rate.However, both players are massively underperforming.
It isn't all their fault, but they are a huge part of the problem. And when players sign for that kind of money, they are supposed to be solutions to other problems, not become issues in and of themselves.

Do these guys even watch the Rams games?? Only one casual mention of the OL in the whole article before it's quickly forgotten, and yet that is THE biggest problem out O is having by a long shot. There may be other issues, but it's the struggles of the OL that have really killed this offense this year.

Gawd, some of these writers are either incredibly lazy, plumb frickin' STUPID, or both.
 

Ram65

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I think it's important to look at each example in its moment of time.

At the beginning of the season for example when Blythe was terrible (after being terrible in the Super Bowl and down the stretch of the regular season) and after Edwards was our best OL in preseason, they could have sat Blythe. This would accomplish what I am suggesting re: performance being the standard right out the gate.

Or after game 4 or so they could have moved Havenstein inside to OG when it was clear he could not handle speed rushes and was getting worked in every game. Moving him inside and sitting Blythe for example, with Edwards going in at RT might have improved this line immensely.

Also it's not about replacing the entire OL btw, in fact this is seen across the roster and began after they traded for Peters. It's about performance being the standard in deed not just words. IMO our young HC got lost a bit on that along the way and I feel like the trade of Peters and Talib were moves to right that particular ship but there is a lot of work left to do.

Lastly want to point out it's tough to discuss this stuff without making it sound like we're teeing off on our coach. That's not the goal but I do think it's worth the effort. How can he improve is the key, and ensuring that standard is met is really crucial to my eye at least.

I have agree that Bythe should have been replaced. I had thought they didn't have anyone better. Looking back again making the moves you suggested couldn't be much worse results wise. I get what you're saying I want guys on the bench to push the starters. If a starter isn't producing then next man up.

It could be that McVay is relying on Kromer his assistant coach/coordinator too much. He has shown a lot of loyalty to his assistants which could be misguided. The Rams sticking with Demby makes you question Kromer and McVay. McVay may need to get a little tougher on his assistants and override their decisions in some cases. It's not easy to do but, you have to ask why changes were made sooner or at all? You also have to ask why the overrated the offensive line in the offseason?
 
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Dxmissile

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Not picking on you specifically friend, just looking for a quote that sums up a lot of what others have said here and in other threads.

That said, do people honestly think that McVay wouldnt utilise Gurley the way he did in the first part of his tenure if Gurley could handle that?

Gurley's done as a workhorse back. It's blindingly obvious. He has extremely limited trade value because everyone can see he's not what he was, and on top of that he has a massive contract. We aren't playing Madden here.

My view is this - naivety/poor planning with the make-up of this years O-line is the single biggest issue, and McVay shares that responsibility with Les and other decision makers within the organisation.

There is other context that explains some of this too. 5-4 in any other division looks a good record, and nobody saw the 9ers coming. We have never had tremendous depth but we have been very lucky with injuries this past 2 years since McVay has come and it's not that way this season.

There are 31 other teams trying to win too guys, sheesh. And it's so recent that we were so bad, we would have all bitten our hands off for a 5-4 record 5 years ago. I guess I expected more patience from our fanbase than this.

Rant over.
When I hear McVay wouldn’t utilize Gurley I have to disagree because even when Gurley was healthy McVay would still go games having him under utilized.
Gurley maybe isn’t a workhorse Rb anymore but by having Gurley suit up by having him blocking more than rushing it’s fair to point out his lack of usage. To me if I’m having him on a pitch count I may sit him out a game here and a game there but when he suit up I’m giving him the ball.
And secondly it sounds to me like their plan is too rigid with this whole rotation thing. Hell Gurley has been running better than brown and Henderson.
The fact still remains though that even when the other backs are in we rarely run the ball. There is no excuse or explanation for that it goes above the Gurley situation when “I” talk about McVays lack of use of the run game