Coach McVay Discussion

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Merlin

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I'd like to discuss our young Head Coach a bit, and by that I mean the areas he needs to adjust and improve. Prefer not to rant and light him on fire here as there's plenty of that elsewhere. I believe he is still the same guy, but he is a young coach who is still learning on the job and this season is a big slice of humble pie for him. Anyway here goes fwiw...

1. Route combinations. Been saying for a while after weekly film review that teams are all over his tendencies. Basically teams are hell bent on not letting us pass the ball, yes, but also they have been pattern matching at a very high success rate week to week. Whether it's zone (which is where we have struggled most) or man coverage teams are winning a lot of routes due to anticipation and that's on the gameplanning side. I feel he needs to get back to basics here and we will also see a move made on the staff as McVay is probably dealing with a gameplanning dropoff in the passing game coordinator side where they have relied too much on existing playbook and tendencies.

2. Physicality. It just seems like our linemen aren't ready for physicality and the book up front is to bring it with most teams having a high success rate. I find myself wondering whether the "vet rest days" or overall lack of contact practices is hurting their preparation. When you get away with that stuff it's great of course. But when your guys look outmatched left and right it makes me feel like there might be a contributing factor from that practice side of things. Either way the Rams right now are a finesse offense. Look at the Bengals tape. Goff converted a ton of non-optimal down/distance situations and that's why we won. Vs better defenses that is more difficult to pull off particularly when your protections aren't there. Obviously this goes back to the run game but I suspect it might be a bit more than that, i.e. this team could use some more full pad practices to help them get on track.

3. Unnecessary delay in benching players. I think this is what happens when you're riding that Super Bowl high, where you feel comfortable letting things go longer than a staff who doesn't have that kind of clout. Some of the decisions have been due to a lack of depth which relates back to trades for veterans. But not all of them. When you don't have a quick hook for non-performance what it means is performance is no longer the standard. This needs to be how they do things going forward, ensuring performance IS the standard.

In summary I don't think this is a playoff roster right now due to the OL and it's affected everything else. But I do think McVay can improve in the areas above. And if they can work those things while they use the remainder of the season to find out which of these OL can play, they can set themselves up for a nice rebound season in 2020 by adding a couple key pieces to the OL.
 

EastRam

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Very accurate observations.

I’ve been harping on “tells” and “tendencies” all season.

The Rams seem soft and disjointed. You just don’t take days off when your getting slapped around.

Starting to look like the loss of some assistants is showing.
 

thirteen28

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IT'S GOFF'S FAULT!!! HE'S A WITCH!!!! BURN HIM!!!!

Ok, seriously, I think you have some great points. Certainly it seems like there are fewer open receivers this year, and coupled with pressure from an abysmal OL, you are going to have a lot of problems. And we are.

But one you didn't add, which you should have is McVay's tendency to get away from the running game. This seems to be a factor in almost every loss of the McVay era. And yesterday, it was absolutely inexcusable because we never trailed by more than one score and we had Gurley going. But this:


Excerpt:

The Los Angeles Rams offense is all out of whack, but more inexplicable than the struggles of the offensive line and the quarterback is Sean McVay's usage -- or lack thereof -- of Todd Gurley.
Gurley was having his best rushing day in months, gashing a good Steelers defense for 6.1 yards per carry on 12 totes, for 73 yards. The running back's last touch came with 1:00 remaining in the third quarter.

That is not a typo.

Todd Gurley, the Rams' best offensive player Sunday, went the entire fourth quarter without touching the ball.

It's not as if this were some sort of blowout where sitting the gnarly-kneed Gurley would make sense. No. L.A. entered the fourth quarter trailing 14-10 and got an early safety to make it 14-12. The entire period was played within one score, yet Gurley touched the pigskin zero times in the 17-12 loss.

"That was just kind of the rotation," McVay said, when asked why Gurley wasn't on the field to begin the fourth quarter, via The Athletic. "Sometimes I'm on both sides of the headsets. There's just a lot of trust for our coaches that have some of the (confidence) to be really able to say, 'Alright, who's in?' Then I will be able to click back on, and then we know what we are going with."

It's fine for McVay to manage his starter's snaps, especially given Gurley's knee history. But it's not as though the running back was kept out the entire quarter. According to Next Gen Stats, Gurley played 11 of 17 fourth-quarter snaps after taking a breather the first two drives. Yet, not once did McVay and/or Jared Goff call his number. No rushes, no targets.

Seriously? It's just the rotation? The one offensive player who has been effective, who has looked closer to his 2017-2018 form than any game this season, doesn't get a 4th quarter carry because "it was just kind of the rotation"??? What the hell kind of inflexible thinking is that? This was when the game, and possibly the Rams season was on the line, and he sticks to the pitch count thing at the most inopportune time.

I love what McVay has done since he's been here, but he really needs to be more flexible in his in-game thinking and in having a feel for the game. Right after the safety, we had all the momentum. With Gurley running the way he had been, that would have been a great time to ram the ball right down their throats. Instead, Malcom Brown is brought in, we have a few weak runs and incomplete passes and completely squander that momentum. Just unbelievable. Had we scored a TD after the safety, I don't think the Steelers recover.

That also ties into the physicality item you listed. One way to get more physical is to run the ball and stick with it when it's working - like McVay did in the playoffs last year against Dallas, or did in Seattle in 2017 when we absolutely clobbered them. Not only can you establish dominance over them, but it takes the edge off the pass rush when defenders are repeatedly pushed around. And it gives a boost of confidence to your OLinemen as well. Furthermore, if your passing game is predicated on the play-action, you really need to establish the run and the constant threat thereof to make it work. McVay is failing to do that far too often this year.

Honestly, as I said elsewhere, I think he is the one with a Super Bowl hangover. Now it's absolutely true that out OL is very bad, but he is not helping matters by continuing to do things that don't mask that weakness at all.

I'm kind of hoping Cincy does so bad this year that Zac Taylor gets fired and we can bring him back to whisper in McVay's ear once in a while. He needs a consigliere to keep him on the right track in the heat of battle. He also needs to overhaul some things with this offense in the offseason, including the stuff you mentioned, as well as more variation of personnel groupings, and coming up with a Plan B and Plan C when Plan A doesn't work.
 

bomebadeeda

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The "rotation" thing has to be some kind of smoke screen. At one point yesterday, Gurley had back to back 8 some odd yard runs. Then "takes himself out" for a play. Gurley has always been the back that got stronger as the game wore on. And if he's taking himself out every 2 or 3 plays, his overall effectiveness has to be questioned.

Now to the folks about "tells". Yes there are some, but McVay has always been the guy who called the right play for the situation. And most plays running and passing could be done from an identical set. I think our offensive line problems are superseding what McVay wants to do. And while tempo is something that drives the complete offense, Having to "slow" the game down to get everyone positioned correctly has been something of note. Tempo allows the offense to dictate. Standard sets and plays allows the defense to apply the "tells" everyone has. It's something we have to work through.

Lastly I would love to bring up a point that no one wants to talk about. Goff doesn't look good......against good defenses. And that he's not doing well is why they are good defenses. Hats off to Pittsburgh's defense yesterday. They played almost as well as our defense. (yeah, I think we should have won as the knee hit first and the arm was moving forward.....). Against the mediocre ones, he's played decent. But sometimes give credit where credit is due. The defenses are looking to slow down us down to begin with. And then some teams actually can. It's not always about us dictating. Sometimes it's simply surviving.

Just my 2 cents.
 

1maGoh

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I'd like to discuss our young Head Coach a bit, and by that I mean the areas he needs to adjust and improve. Prefer not to rant and light him on fire here as there's plenty of that elsewhere. I believe he is still the same guy, but he is a young coach who is still learning on the job and this season is a big slice of humble pie for him. Anyway here goes fwiw...

1. Route combinations. Been saying for a while after weekly film review that teams are all over his tendencies. Basically teams are hell bent on not letting us pass the ball, yes, but also they have been pattern matching at a very high success rate week to week. Whether it's zone (which is where we have struggled most) or man coverage teams are winning a lot of routes due to anticipation and that's on the gameplanning side. I feel he needs to get back to basics here and we will also see a move made on the staff as McVay is probably dealing with a gameplanning dropoff in the passing game coordinator side where they have relied too much on existing playbook and tendencies.

2. Physicality. It just seems like our linemen aren't ready for physicality and the book up front is to bring it with most teams having a high success rate. I find myself wondering whether the "vet rest days" or overall lack of contact practices is hurting their preparation. When you get away with that stuff it's great of course. But when your guys look outmatched left and right it makes me feel like there might be a contributing factor from that practice side of things. Either way the Rams right now are a finesse offense. Look at the Bengals tape. Goff converted a ton of non-optimal down/distance situations and that's why we won. Vs better defenses that is more difficult to pull off particularly when your protections aren't there. Obviously this goes back to the run game but I suspect it might be a bit more than that, i.e. this team could use some more full pad practices to help them get on track.

3. Unnecessary delay in benching players. I think this is what happens when you're riding that Super Bowl high, where you feel comfortable letting things go longer than a staff who doesn't have that kind of clout. Some of the decisions have been due to a lack of depth which relates back to trades for veterans. But not all of them. When you don't have a quick hook for non-performance what it means is performance is no longer the standard. This needs to be how they do things going forward, ensuring performance IS the standard.

In summary I don't think this is a playoff roster right now due to the OL and it's affected everything else. But I do think McVay can improve in the areas above. And if they can work those things while they use the remainder of the season to find out which of these OL can play, they can set themselves up for a nice rebound season in 2020 by adding a couple key pieces to the OL.

In regards to physicality, it's also very possible the vet rest days and fewer contact practices are still helping and we're lucky he's sticking to them. I mean, are the odds that a thing that worked for two years has suddenly become a detriment to the team for no reason greater than the odds that losing 2 offensive linemen in the off-season and replacing them with younger, less talented players (one of whom is also undersized, and we stuck him next to another undersized guy) has allowed us to get our ass kicked by strong defensive fronts? It's easy to blame the weird thing when stuff starts to go wrong, even if the weird thing was a key to success just a little while ago.
 

Ramlock

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"That was just kind of the rotation," McVay said, when asked why Gurley wasn't on the field to begin the fourth quarter, via The Athletic. "Sometimes I'm on both sides of the headsets. There's just a lot of trust for our coaches that have some of the (confidence) to be really able to say, 'Alright, who's in?' Then I will be able to click back on, and then we know what we are going with."

It's fine for McVay to manage his starter's snaps, especially given Gurley's knee history. But it's not as though the running back was kept out the entire quarter. According to Next Gen Stats, Gurley played 11 of 17 fourth-quarter snaps after taking a breather the first two drives. Yet, not once did McVay and/or Jared Goff call his number. No rushes, no targets.
Seriously? It's just the rotation? The one offensive player who has been effective, who has looked closer to his 2017-2018 form than any game this season, doesn't get a 4th quarter carry because "it was just kind of the rotation"??? What the hell kind of inflexible thinking is that? This was when the game, and possibly the Rams season was on the line, and he sticks to the pitch count thing at the most inopportune time.

I love what McVay has done since he's been here, but he really needs to be more flexible in his in-game thinking and in having a feel for the game. Right after the safety, we had all the momentum. With Gurley running the way he had been, that would have been a great time to ram the ball right down their throats.

So, now it sounds as if the assistant coaches have "the confidence" to pull Gurley?

I'm pretty sure I don't like that, and certainly not the results.

They won't pull him when they need pass pro.

I love our coach.

I love what this group has done to bring the Rams back to being ultra competitive since 2017, but I do not love the way that Gurley has been handled, and he has been handled or managed or whatever.

Eleven snaps and no carries bothers me a great deal when you could steal a hard fought road game.
 

sjm1582002

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As for the coaches, who ever thought that Noteboom, Allen, and Blythe were going to be above average NFL starters may be feeling his seat getting warm. All summer long I heard on this board, over and over, how that group was going be real good as Komer is all knowing. I had serious doubts but kept quiet.

In any event, when McVay took over from Fisher the changes he immediately made showed he knows exactly what the team needed to win in this league. I don't think he has forgetten and it appears he has a similar project on his hands now.

In the meantime I would sure like to see some variety in formations.

We have two talented TE's and a OL crying out for help. For God Sakes play 'em both once in awhile and beat up on the opposing DE's.
 

Merlin

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  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
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Lastly I would love to bring up a point that no one wants to talk about. Goff doesn't look good......against good defenses.
Yeah I'd rather keep the Goff discussions out of this one. Let's stick to McVay plz.

As to Gurley, as I read the responses above I am thinking maybe we need to just ride him until we can't ride him. This 15 touch-count thing is a legit point of discussion for our young coach no doubt about it.
 

Ellard80

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McVay, like anyone is subject to criticism.

I liked your post because you didn't do the football fan 101 "we need to run more" response. It's a lot more complicated than that.

Our talent is in the passing game, but our 0-line does nothing well.

It's amazing to me however (not that you are doing this) but how so many people are turning on McVay. The guy brought us from laughing stock to superbowl in two years... but suddenly he is a bum who doesn't know what he is doing.

Goff goes from looking like shit to a pro-bowl QB when McVay gets here. Yet there is like this "goff vs Mcvay" mentality as to who's fault things are. It makes zero sense.

This is after we still have a winning record.. something the previous coach never could even accomplish.
 

VegasRam

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BTW, I’m aware the thread is about McVay.
I choose not to participate, since it’s patently absurd.
I will say, this is as good a test as you can ask for in seeing how LA responds to adversity.
I will also say, we are what the record says, but everyone in that locker room knows the Rams got fucking jobbed yesterday, and in their minds, know they won that game.
 

LesBaker

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I watch the games.

And when I know about two out of three times what is going to happen ITS A FUCKING ISSUE.
 

simonblaze

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As for the coaches, who ever thought that Noteboom, Allen, and Blythe were going to be above average NFL starters may be feeling his seat getting warm. All summer long I heard on this board, over and over, how that group was going be real good as Komer is all knowing. I had serious doubts but kept quiet.

I hear ya and def there has to be some accountability there for sure in regards to the position coaches but Kromer's past work speaks for itself...They def did not know the wheels would start to come off with Whit and that Havenstein would've turned into a barn door BUT they did know...

Allen and Noteboom were basically rookies and sat them all preseason...

That Blythe was getting eaten up late in the season...

Were playing terribly at o line and traded for a Browns guard who got benched...

I tend to fault McVay more than Kromer in this sense but fingers crossed they just figure this shit out sooner rather than later (they will eventually)...we could always run the table still heh, not impossible....
 

gabriel18

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Yeah I haven't seen this entire post... only half of this was posted early - "umm not really" in response to if he wants the ball more in crunch time. Yeah....

Not a very good comment by the superstar running back who just got bank . Sounds like a little kid that doesn't get his way . Probably explains his lack of emotion all day yesterday. Not a good look
 

Dxmissile

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Yeah I haven't seen this entire post... only half of this was posted early - "umm not really" in response to if he wants the ball more in crunch time. Yeah....
What that says to me is that he understands that it’s pointless unless you want him on the sidelines throwing a fit his next sentence explained it all “I’m used to it” which is what I’ve been saying all along McVay continues to pull him in crucial times. This whole team Preaches We not Me that’s why he won’t say how he truly feels about not being fed the ball
 

Ramlock

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Yeah I haven't seen this entire post... only half of this was posted early - "umm not really" in response to if he wants the ball more in crunch time. Yeah....

Sometimes the entire quote doesn't make it, as you know, and it looks entirely different.
 

Dxmissile

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They might as well trade Gurley get whatever they can and watch him go on and become the old Gurley for a team that’s go use him.
 

Ramlock

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Not a very good comment by the superstar running back who just got bank . Sounds like a little kid that doesn't get his way . Probably explains his lack of emotion all day yesterday. Not a good look


One way to look at it...