Coach McVay Discussion

[fearsomefour]

Before I get to McVay, let’s take a glance at Kyle Shanahan. McVay appeared to OWN HIM for two years but I saw it differently. My eyes told me Shanny had a superior game plan a couple times but players like Aaron Donald wrecked it. The Niners looked bad for two years. He was roundly criticized for the Falcons’ SB loss. Suddenly this year, he has the top team in the NFC (last night’s loss notwithstanding).

Next, let’s consider Mike Tomlin. In my 55 years, I’ve never seen a coach with a lead go for it on 4th down on his half of the field late in a game his defense dominated. Brilliant, Ballsy, Unprecedented! Yet this is a coach who was criticized for his handling of Bell and Brown.

How about the curious case of Wade Phillips. He’s been fired more times than a turret on the USS Arkansas. Yet he leads the most effective unit on the team after two years of leading the least effective unit.

Finally, I invoke the name we all despise most... Bill Belichick. Wasn’t he fired by the Browns after four losing seasons of 6,7,7,5 wins per?

My point is, often a coach “appears” to be only as good as the collective around him. This OLine is every bit as abysmal as I’ve ever witnessed. Under these conditions, no coordination is possible for success. So my suggestion, as many others have said, would logically to be to evolve to a short passing game and principles based on different personnel packages. Yet this is the year Goff has been given more ownership of the offense and we have subs who have limited reps with this one scheme. Are we really suggesting reinventing all this midseason and invite even more mistakes? While Brown and Henderson were running into brick walls, we think Gurley should’ve been the one absorbing the blows?

Understand, McVay is ultimately responsible for the direction of the team. Adjustments are necessary from game to game and play to play. McVay could do better...but could that not be said of all 32 head coaches? If a handful of plays go differently, this is 7-2 team. While many of the suggestions registered here have merit, I only ask for two things before we continue:

Perspective and Context

It’s amazing was a massive infusion of talent can do for a coach.
Shanny has a nice and clever offense.
The main difference this year is there is just much more talent on the roster.

 

[Ramstien]

I believe if the Rams get back to running the ball more everything will work itself out. Sometimes McVay gets pass happy, (remind you of any other ex-Ram coach). Please get Gurley 20 to 25 carries a game and stop this rotation of RBs. I want McVay to understand if they keep saving Gurley for the post season there will be no post season for the Rams.

 

[LesBaker]

Finally, I invoke the name we all despise most... Bill Belichick. Wasn’t he fired by the Browns after four losing seasons of 6,7,7,5 wins per?

7-9, 7-9 11-5 then 5-11 on a team that the players quit on because word got out about Modell sneaking off to Baltimore.

McVay is reminding me of Martz in all the worst ways. 45 pass plays and 23 rushing plays on a day when they were in the game until late in the 4th quarter.

1-13 on third down conversions.

WAY to many pass plays on 3rd down and short.

On the road at the Steelers 30 on 4th and 10 and you go for it on a day your defense was stifling the Steelers O??? You kick the FG to put the points on the board, get a stop then work into FG range to try to win the game. 4th and 10 is not a smart play PERIOD. That was a rookie mistake, and he isn't a rookie.

 

[Legatron4]

View: https://twitter.com/movethesticks/status/1193935915917299712?s=21

This is what the offense is dealing with. Goff actually has excellent pocket movement. But he gets bombarded in 1.5 seconds. I promise you guys Goff hasn’t just fallen off the map as a QB. He is using his mobility the best he can. There’s literally nothing he can do.

 

[Jacobarch]

View: https://twitter.com/movethesticks/status/1193935915917299712?s=21

This is what the offense is dealing with. Goff actually has excellent pocket movement. But he gets bombarded in 1.5 seconds. I promise you guys Goff hasn’t just fallen off the map as a QB. He is using his mobility the best he can. There’s literally nothing he can do.

Well this is one play that Goff got sacked on so it's a little out of context. There were times he had time throwing the ball. Also let's not forget that the Steelers offense wasn't any better than ours.

One thing I will say is our oline is finesse and people now know it. The bull rushers and athletic players have a big advantage over our guys and it shows. I'm not really sure what happened with Hav? Seems like to me that he got his contract extension and possibly didn't prepare like he usually does. Hate to say it but that's what it looks like, just never took him for that type of player.

 

[AZRams]

So go back to weeks 1 and 2 against Carolina and New Orleans. He made halftime adjustments in those games that saw the offense execute better. He can do it.

But why the reluctance to do so over the last 6-7 games?

 

[dang]

we didn’t lose this game because of the refs. we lost because for the 2nd time this year the offense played uncharacteristically pathetic. they will not be good this year because of the OL but that was a pathetic showing. i damn TD and they would have one. 1 damn TD they had no idea how to make. it’s was as bad as the Fischer offensive outings.

 

[Ellard80]

View: https://twitter.com/movethesticks/status/1193935915917299712?s=21

This is what the offense is dealing with. Goff actually has excellent pocket movement. But he gets bombarded in 1.5 seconds. I promise you guys Goff hasn’t just fallen off the map as a QB. He is using his mobility the best he can. There’s literally nothing he can do.

We all agree the line is bad... and there were a number of times Goff had no chance.

But the INT's he threw- neither were under duress.

 

[Kevin]

So go back to weeks 1 and 2 against Carolina and New Orleans. He made halftime adjustments in those games that saw the offense execute better. He can do it.

But why the reluctance to do so over the last 6-7 games?

Maybe McVay's strength is as an offensive play designer and not as a head coach? Maybe he does not have the maturity to see when adjustments have to be made and make them, or to keep the opposing defense guessing so he doesn't have to make adjustments? Maybe he falls in love with his type of plays, his "brand" of offense, and doesn't recognize ways to exploit weaknesses in the opposing defense? Maybe he is not a head coach just yet?

 

[Ellard80]

we didn’t lose this game because of the refs. we lost because for the 2nd time this year the offense played uncharacteristically pathetic. they will not be good this year because of the OL but that was a pathetic showing. i damn TD and they would have one. 1 damn TD they had no idea how to make. it’s was as bad as the Fischer offensive outings.

The sad thing is.. we still should have won, because Goff's fumble was not a fumble.

 

[LesBaker]

Maybe McVay's strength is as an offensive play designer and not as a head coach? Maybe he does not have the maturity to see when adjustments have to be made and make them, or to keep the opposing defense guessing so he doesn't have to make adjustments? Maybe he falls in love with his type of plays, his "brand" of offense, and doesn't recognize ways to exploit weaknesses in the opposing defense? Maybe he is not a head coach just yet?

He's never been a HC at any level so we expect to see some on the job learning. Now, with that said he's smart enough to know this isn't working for him and he should change.

The $64,000 question is will he, so far he's not changed.

 

[dang]

The sad thing is.. we still should have won, because Goff's fumble was not a fumble.

that was way too early in the game to predict what might have happened after that. how many more possessions did this offense not only fail to score but failed to move the ball, get into any sort of rhythm or adjust to the defense. it was preaseason shenanigans in the middle of the season. the Rams desevered to lose with their pathetic offense. they were in the game with their stellar and rising defense.

 

[KJD_Ram]

I said it last week and I'll say it again...you want to slow down a DL hell bent on getting to the QB, but the OL is garbage? Use their aggressiveness against them...throw a screen pass or two, and I don't mean those quick WR screens....I mean the old school middle screen...trouble is Rams don't know how to run them without tipping their hand....I'd like to see McVay work that to perfection...

 

[Varg6]

Why can’t we run 22 personnel? We have talented TEs who can block and catch. We did some of that in Seattle and were successful. Why not bring in as many blockers as we can knowing that blocking is an issue? That’s what has been bothering me the most.

 

[FarNorth]

The sad thing is.. we still should have won, because Goff's fumble was not a fumble.

For what it's worth, knowing that others have similar comments, here's what I see.

The o-line has fallen apart. Last year and the year before, with notable exceptions and less so toward the end of the year, it was physically dominant. Some of us were concerned about losing Saffold but hoped Kromer could manage it. With injuries, or for other reasons that aren't clear (Havenstein), the problems are far worse than anticipated. In hindsight, the coaches and front office should have assigned a higher priority to keeping Saffold, or trading for or drafting one or two more dominant physical linemen than to some of our glitzier signings.

The line can't power block the run to open holes for Gurley and can't protect Goff consistently. Without an effective running game, the play action doesn't work. Without the play action, there is no deception in the offense-- McVay's stock in trade. The D knows we're passing and is sitting on the routes. There isn't enough time for downfield plays to develop or for the receivers to break open. Losing Cooks makes this worse, but isn't the main cause. Neither is Goff.

While the line has been ineffective especially against good defenses McVay's play calling hasn't been helpful in adjusting. He still defaults too much to the pass. This has always been too predictable with McVay. It has made things worse in a couple of our key losses. In a game like Sunday's we might well have been better off handing the ball to Gurley and company a lot more, giving the line a chance just to get some timing, and maybe opening up some actual play action. Or McVay needed to redesign the passing game to shorter routes, screens, greater use of tight ends, etc. to reflect the reality that the line can't block well enough to enable the downfield game. But it didn't happen.

We still have a lot of talent and can certainly rebuild this team. The D is good. But we are not likely to make a Super Bowl run, or even make the playoffs, unless the O-line plays better or the coaching staff figures out something that can work on offense despite the lack of blocking.

 

[HX76]

It’s been pretty much plain sailing for him since he got the job and he’s had a lot of plaudits. This is the first real bit of adversity he’s really faced in his fledgling career. I hope we’ll be looking back at this in time to come thinking that this helped him develop and become the successful head coach we all want him to be.

 

[LesBaker]

I said it last week and I'll say it again...you want to slow down a DL hell bent on getting to the QB, but the OL is garbage? Use their aggressiveness against them...throw a screen pass or two, and I don't mean those quick WR screens....I mean the old school middle screen...trouble is Rams don't know how to run them without tipping their hand....I'd like to see McVay work that to perfection...

Maybe toss in some draw plays too!!!

 

[Ram65]

1. Route combinations. Been saying for a while after weekly film review that teams are all over his tendencies. Basically teams are hell bent on not letting us pass the ball, yes, but also they have been pattern matching at a very high success rate week to week.

Just heard Willie McGintest this morning talk about Bill Belichick creating new game plans each week and you may not see the same play the following week. He said not easy to do.

I'm shocked that McVay doesn't appear to be changing things much week to week. It's like defenses know what to expect. Considering the offensive line problems you want to see some different plays called. I liked the first play to Higbee but, then we didn't see that again IIRC.

2. Physicality. It just seems like our linemen aren't ready for physicality and the book up front is to bring it with most teams having a high success rate. I find myself wondering whether the "vet rest days" or overall lack of contact practices is hurting their preparation.

Considering that Whitworth is the only vet on the line I don't think that is a problem. I don't how much they can practice in pads during the week. I agree this offensive line is not physical. I don't know if it's the players they draft or the mentality but, it has to change. Defensive fronts are very physical and you have to match that. They need a change in thinking as far as the offensive line goes. Draft more physical players. Edwards and Evans might become physical platers.

3. Unnecessary delay in benching players.

I'm not sure who you want benching outside of Demby. They don't have many options. Who do want to be benched and who do you want to replace them?


I think McVay needs help with game planning and game calling. He has had trouble in the red zone and when in field goal range to get TDs in the past. Now he has trouble getting into field goal range. The offensive line is a big obstacle to overcome but, he hasn't adjusted. We all throw out ideas of mixing things up with 12P and shorter routes. He has to make some changes. We will see some new offensive line players with injuries from this week. I don't hope things get a little better.

 

[Ellard80]

I said it last week and I'll say it again...you want to slow down a DL hell bent on getting to the QB, but the OL is garbage? Use their aggressiveness against them...throw a screen pass or two, and I don't mean those quick WR screens....I mean the old school middle screen...trouble is Rams don't know how to run them without tipping their hand....I'd like to see McVay work that to perfection...

But the defense knows this as well as you do - I remember us tryign two screens in that game and both times the defense had it sniffed out.

 

[Jacobarch]

But the defense knows this as well as you do - I remember us tryign two screens in that game and both times the defense had it sniffed out.

This is true, However, I think he means McVay needs to time them up better. He only seems to run a screen when he gets into 2nd or 3rd and long situations. He needs to call plays when the defense least expects it. The Steelers must have ran 4 to 5 screens and each one of them we sniffed out because the timing of the play call. Not to mention they were dinking and dunking most of the of the game so that set up our DB's and DL to blow those plays up.

I even remember me calling a RB screen play to Gurely before they even ran it against the Steelers. I think it was 2nd and 11 or something like that. I called it before he even put the offense in the huddle and that's just some couch potato.
When the defense is in your head and in your huddle it's really hard to beat any team. I just think McVay has become somewhat predictable when he's behind the chains.

Furthermore, after listening to the McVay show last night, he did allude to this. One of the questions that came in from Social Media asked this very same question about the playcalling and the lack of misdirection, screen, and running plays.
I think it has to do more with not having as good assistants or coordinators around him this year. You can see it, the lack of adjustments at halftime, the predictable calling at times, and McVay getting stuck in one gear and not being able to throw a change-up to confuse the defense.
My opinion is this will and can only be fixed in the offseason. He needs to bring in a fresh mind to help him call plays, to change things up when the flow of the game isn't going as planned.