Brian Schottenheimer Is Not the Problem

[jrry32]

Even with average players, his offenses have been worse than average. Pennington got a few MVP votes when he went to Miami. Sachez's career is on the upswing, if that goes anywhere further, we'll have to wait and see.

The excuse i'm willing to make for BS is he's coached under old-school defensive minded head coaches Rex Ryan and Jeff Fisher. My opinion is he's a bad OC and he's been hamstrung by his HC's. I don't buy into the talent argument. As you've said, there's talent across the board in the NFL and Schcotty's results have been consistently sub par.

You say Sanchez is garage. Then why is Philly's offense so much better than ours? I'm gonna go with coaching...

Pennington did do better. As I said before, bad system fit imo. But they tried putting Sanchez in that same offense and he looked terrible. So it certainly wasn't universal.

And even now, with the brilliant Chip Kelly, Sanchez's career is NOT on the upswing.

He's putting the ball in the end-zone and turning it over at a worse rate than he did in Schotty's last year. He's been more efficient but that's Kelly's system and he has A LOT more talent around him.

Plus, most people consider Chip Kelly to be among the brightest offensive minds around. Just look at what Sanchez's per 16 game numbers were:
Jets(Schotty's last year)
32 TDs
26 TOs

Eagles
26 TDs
26 TOs

I know he has a better YPA, completion%, and QB Rating...but he also has a far better supporting cast and Chip Kelly...who I think we can all agree runs a system that is better than BS's right now.

Why is Philly's offense better than ours? Better talent and a better coach. Although, oddly enough, I think this year it's been related to how many plays they get off because their QBs actually have a lower QB Rating than ours and their HBs are running for about the same YPC.(not that speeding things up by itself would suddenly make us a great offense)

But I don't know how you could not buy into the talent argument. That happens to be the most important thing for an offense. There being talent across the board doesn't mean there's equal talent across the board.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Pennington did do better. As I said before, bad system fit imo. But they tried putting Sanchez in that same offense and he looked terrible. So it certainly wasn't universal.

And even now, with the brilliant Chip Kelly, Sanchez's career is NOT on the upswing.

He's putting the ball in the end-zone and turning it over at a worse rate than he did in Schotty's last year. He's been more efficient but that's Kelly's system and he has A LOT more talent around him.

Plus, most people consider Chip Kelly to be among the brightest offensive minds around. Just look at what Sanchez's per 16 game numbers were:
Jets(Schotty's last year)
32 TDs
26 TOs

Eagles
26 TDs
26 TOs

I know he has a better YPA, completion%, and QB Rating...but he also has a far better supporting cast and Chip Kelly...who I think we can all agree runs a system that is better than BS's right now.

Why is Philly's offense better than ours? Better talent and a better coach. Although, oddly enough, I think this year it's been related to how many plays they get off because their QBs actually have a lower QB Rating than ours and their HBs are running for about the same YPC.(not that speeding things up by itself would suddenly make us a great offense)

But I don't know how you could not buy into the talent argument. That happens to be the most important thing for an offense. There being talent across the board doesn't mean there's equal talent across the board.

How did you get those numbers for Sanchez in Philly? Not that it really matters since Sanchez doesn't have the time with Kelly as he had with Schottenhiemer.

I'd also say that the talent gap of Philly vs. the 2011 Jets is pretty debatable.

 

[Lesson]

How did you get those numbers for Sanchez in Philly?
I'd also say that the talent gap of Philly vs. the 2011 Jets is pretty debatable.

Philly and the Jets have huge differences. Offensive vs defensive minded coach. Dominating presence of the run game in NY.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Philly and the Jets have huge differences. Offensive vs defensive minded coach. Dominating presence of the run game in NY.

Talent gap?

 

[jrry32]

How did you get those numbers for Sanchez in Philly?
I'd also say that the talent gap of Philly vs. the 2011 Jets is pretty debatable.

Extrapolated since he's played 8 games.

It's pretty debatable? Maybe the OL. But Philly has much better skill players. The comparisons are:
Shonn Greene vs. Shady McCoy
Darren Sproles vs. washed up LT
Maclin vs. Holmes(and this isn't prime Holmes)
Fresh out of prison Plaxico vs. Jordan Matthews
Riley Cooper vs. rookie Jeremy Kerley
Dustin Keller vs. Zach Ertz

Seems to me that Philly has the superior player in every comparison except Keller vs. Ertz.

 

[MrMotes]

I know he has a better YPA, completion%, and QB Rating...but he also has a far better supporting cast and Chip Kelly...who I think we can all agree runs a system that is better than BS's right now.

Exactly, Sanchez shows Chip Kelly runs a better system than BS.

And BTW, the Favre year Favre came in at the last minute and never really learned the offense. They were largely winging, even BS said he sat down with Favre and they figured out what they could and couldn't do. And that was, by far, Schotty's best year in NY, the year his system was least implemented...

 

[jrry32]

Exactly, Sanchez shows Chip Kelly runs a better system than BS.

I think we all knew that. But Sanchez's TD to TO numbers are actually worse than they were under BS.

And BTW, the Favre year Favre came in at the last minute and never really learned the offense. They were largely winging, even BS said he sat down with Favre and they figured out what they could and couldn't do. And that was, by far, Schotty's best year in NY, the year his system was least implemented...

Okay. I think that speaks pretty strongly about the talent argument. Favre is a HOF QB after all.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Extrapolated since he's played 8 games.

It's pretty debatable? Maybe the OL. But Philly has much better skill players. The comparisons are:
Shonn Greene vs. Shady McCoy
Darren Sproles vs. washed up LT
Maclin vs. Holmes(and this isn't prime Holmes)
Fresh out of prison Plaxico vs. Jordan Matthews
Riley Cooper vs. rookie Jeremy Kerley
Dustin Keller vs. Zach Ertz

Seems to me that Philly has the superior player in every comparison except Keller vs. Ertz.

Extrapolating the final 8 games seems useless, IMO. He could get better (w/ experience) or worse as he goes along. No one really knows.

Seems debatable to me. I like the Jets OLine more.

Plaxico may have been fresh out of prison, but he could still play and was very experienced. He was hell in the redzone. Also it makes more sense to compare veterans to veterans and rookies to rookies, IMO. And how was a 27 year old Holmes not in his prime?

To each his own, but the only area I'd give the Eagles the clear edge would be in the backfield.

 

[MrMotes]

I think we all knew that. But Sanchez's TD to TO numbers are actually worse than they were under BS.

And this is one reason Fisher likes BS and SB: They don't produce a whole lot of offense but they also don't turn the ball over a lot which is something a defensive minded coach prizes...

 

[jrry32]

Extrapolating the final 8 games seems useless, IMO. He could get better (w/ experience) or worse as he goes along. No one really knows.

No, not really. I think that's a copout. He's been the same guy all year. He's been the same guy his entire career. That's not changing. We have 8 games...which is half a season and he's doing worse in terms of TDs to TOs than he was doing his final year with Schotty.

Seems debatable to me. I like the Jets OLine more.

I think it's a pretty clear push. Both were arguably the best in the NFL.

Plaxico may have been fresh out of prison, but he could still play and was very experienced. He was hell in the redzone.

And still wasn't the player that Jordan Matthews is.

Also it makes more sense to compare veterans to veterans and rookies to rookies, IMO. And how was a 27 year old Holmes not in his prime?

No, it doesn't. It makes sense to compare pecking order to pecking order. I don't judge a guy's prime by his age. I judge it by his level of play. Holmes's level of play was on the decline at that point and then completely fell apart after his Lisfranc injury. Regardless, Maclin wins that match-up whether he's in his prime or not.

To each his own, but the only area I'd give the Eagles the clear edge would be in the backfield.

I think the Eagles have a large edge at HB and slight edge at WR/TE with a push along the OL.

So again, Eagles have more talent...and a better coach...and yet Sanchez is still Sanchez.

 

[jrry32]

And this is one reason Fisher likes BS and SB: They don't produce a whole lot of offense but they also don't turn the ball over a lot which is something a defensive minded coach prizes...

Which is why our offense won't be comparable to Chip's. Oddly enough, if you look at Philly's offense this year, we're average more yards per carry and our QBs have a higher QB Rating. But they've run 1056 plays to our 897. Do I think our offense would be as good as theirs if we ran the same sort of hurry up? No. They have more talent and Chip is a better mind.

But I don't think the gap is as large as it seems purely looking at YPG and PPG. Plus, their hurry up offense has put their defense in a really shitty situation this year because they have to play so many drives and plays.

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

Still fighting to good fight jrry...

Bravo Sir!

Got the same 'ol suspects banging their same worn drum, to battle...good luck with that (tho some of the "names" have changed)

 

[Memphis Ram]

jrry32,

C'mon now. You've seen players improve with more experience in a system before. It's really unfair to compare Sanchez in 8 games with Brian Kelly vs. his last 16 of 47 games under Schottenhiemer. You have no idea what would have happened if he played a full season.

We are going to disagree on the players so there really isn't need to go any further. But, I will say that Holmes level of play had a great deal to do with his QB and the offensive system/playcalling. I even remember reading how both he and Burress complained openly about Schottenhiemer. And BTW, Holmes foot injury occurred in 2012, not 2011.

 

[MrMotes]

Which is why our offense won't be comparable to Chip's. Oddly enough, if you look at Philly's offense this year, we're average more yards per carry and our QBs have a higher QB Rating. But they've run 1056 plays to our 897. Do I think our offense would be as good as theirs if we ran the same sort of hurry up? No. They have more talent and Chip is a better mind.

But I don't think the gap is as large as it seems purely looking at YPG and PPG. Plus, their hurry up offense has put their defense in a really crappy situation this year because they have to play so many drives and plays.

Last year the Eagles were 4th by points and 2nd by yards on offense. This year they're 3rd in points and 5th in yards.

In 2008 The Jets were 9th and 16th.

Do you think it's fair to say the Eagles offense with Foles/Sanchez is better than the Jets offense was with Favre?

 

[jrry32]

Last year the Eagles were 4th by points and 2nd by yards on offense. This year they're 3rd in points and 5th in yards.

In 2008 The Jets were 9th and 16th.

Do you think it's fair to say the Eagles offense with Foles/Sanchez is better than the Jets offense was with Favre?

Nope. Jets were averaging 29.4 PPG before Favre's injury without the hurry up to inflate their numbers(while hindering defensive performance).

 

[mr.stlouis]

Judging by the games I've seen there defeats can blamed on their lack of a defense. One of the worst in the league IMO.

Should we pick up Sanchize if he's available?

 

[dieterbrock]

Should we pick up Sanchize if he's available?

You forgot the blue font

 

[mr.stlouis]

You forgot the blue font

Not as a starter, of course.

I'd love to see what Cutler could do for us but I say he stays in Chi.

Its clear we cannot solely depend on Sam.

 

[dieterbrock]

Not as a starter, of course.

I'd love to see what Cutler could do for us but I say he stays in Chi.

Its clear we cannot solely depend on Sam.

I dont want Sanchez any where near this team. Especially if Shotty is still around (which I fully expect him to be)

 

[mr.stlouis]

I dont want Sanchez any where near this team. Especially if Shotty is still around (which I fully expect him to be)

Ah yes, forgot about their days with the NYJ. I agree with you, he plays better under Chip.