About Goff from a 49er fan...

[LACHAMP46]

The strongest arm I've seen on a NFL QB belonged to 6'0" 210 Michael Vick. Aaron Rodgers has one of the strongest arms in the NFL at 6'2" 220. Brett Favre had one of the strongest arms of all time at 6'2" 220.

A lot of people assume that big QBs have strong arms. We saw that mistaken assumption with both Nick Foles and Brock Osweiler in the recent past.

Naw....but bigger guys typically throw harder...I've played almost every sport...BaseB, FootB, BasketB,....shoulda tried hockey & soccer too. LoL...And some of the strongest arms I've EVER seen are on very thin frames. I don't always believe size makes that natural arm speed. And mechanics are huge. Still, I'd say today Flacco throws with a lot of velocity...But so does Russell Wilson. Oh yeah, so does that terrible guy Kaep. hahahahahah! I guess he didn't play too bad yesterday either. Neither did another great arm, Rodgers...
On the other side, I saw Cousins, who we both agree is a touch passer, throw some crucial picks...seemed the ball was floating...and late...in not perfect weather. hmmmm...
The windows are tighter than ever in the passing game. I believe a strong arm is more necessary than ever. At this moment, Goff doesn't possess the arm strength, anticipation, and accuracy to lead this team down the field on a consistent basis. If he doesn't get stronger, I don't see how much of that will change.

On a serious note, how many times does Greg Robinson need to see a stunt before he figures out how to block it?

This is CLEARLY a coaching issue...That T/E stunt that he and Brown continually give up shows the lack of communication between players, coaches, and in their preparation. Almost every team handles this stunt without flaws...We seemed to go through the motions...

After another game without getting the ball in the endzone, I can't believe we are still here debating what this guy plays like in 2016/2017?...Did he get much help yesterday, NO....Did he help himself with timely passes? On the early blitzes when the game was in the balance, I saw the same things as always....In fact, I thought I saw some quit in him...8:00 mark, 3rd quarter....I thought Pharoh Coopers 3rd down play snapped him out of it...then,after converting on a gutsy 4th down (starting to really like Chase Reynolds) on 1st down, this genius Fassel sucks the last remaining confidence outta the 0 by using the ST on a FIRST DOWN PLAY?!?! Which draws a penalty....Never seen that before....Never...Maybe in Madden.

 

[RAMBUSH]

I do not get some of the hate this kid receives from Rams fans. You see, I experienced Alex Smith, who threw ONE TD to ELEVEN interceptions his rookie season.

You guys think the sky is falling with Goff, imagine having non-functional Alex Smith. Man... Goff showed some skill yesterday. Skill in the pocket, and he was able to throw a few solid medium ranged passes. He's a rookie. There's no way around the growing pains of that. But my goodness he is miles beyond some other rookie QBs.

I think his future is bright. That's my two sense. Hopefully you guys won't be so hard on him given that he's just learning. He wasn't even in anything remotely resembling a pro offense in college. Give him time.

My biggest problem picking Goff is the fact that he wears 16 and was a life long 49er fan. That would have disqualified him in my book. Wentz it would have been for sure.

 

[jrry32]

Naw....but bigger guys typically throw harder...I've played almost every sport...BaseB, FootB, BasketB,....shoulda tried hockey & soccer too. LoL...
And some of the strongest arms I've EVER seen are on very thin frames. I don't always believe size makes that natural arm speed. And mechanics are huge. Still, I'd say today Flacco throws with a lot of velocity...But so does Russell Wilson. Oh yeah, so does that terrible guy Kaep. hahahahahah! I guess he didn't play too bad yesterday either. Neither did another great arm, Rodgers...
On the other side, I saw Cousins, who we both agree is a touch passer, throw some crucial picks...seemed the ball was floating...and late...in not perfect weather. hmmmm...

Flacco and Kaepernick have also performed quite poorly this year while "touch passers" Kirk Cousins, Matt Ryan, and Drew Brees have been among the best in the league...

The windows are tighter than ever in the passing game. I believe a strong arm is more necessary than ever. At this moment, Goff doesn't possess the arm strength, anticipation, and accuracy to lead this team down the field on a consistent basis. If he doesn't get stronger, I don't see how much of that will change.

It's less necessary than ever. The Air Coryell has fallen to a distant third in regards to offenses used today. The West Coast Offense and Erhardt-Perkins Offense have both taken over the league. Of the Air Coryells that remain, very few remain tethered to the classic vertical-orientation that we saw under Martz and Norv Turner. Interestingly enough, Cincy is one of the few remaining teams to run the vertically-oriented Air Coryell still (with Hue Jackson last year and Ken Zampese this year), and they're doing it with "touch passer" Andy Dalton.

A strong arm is less necessary than ever because the passing offenses of today have evolved to revolve around shorter drops (3-step drop heavy), more shotgun, spreading the field horizontally, quicker throws, and shorter throws. Gone are the days where the majority of QB drops are 5-step and 7-step drops. Gone are the days of QBs throwing a high percentage of deep passes. There is a reason that completion percentages are skyrocketing while interception percentages are deflating. QBs are taking less risks. They're throwing short more, teams are better at scheming players open (pick plays are one thing we've seen become prevalent), and defenses are less capable of defending it due to rule changes.

The fact is that it's easier to pass the ball than ever. The stats clearly show that. We can all see that. A strong arm is less necessary than ever because the game has changed over the past few decades. It has gone from revolving around vertical passing to horizontal passing. The things more important than ever now are mental processing speed, release speed, accuracy, and anticipation. It's how an ancient Peyton Manning with no arm strength could set records. It's how ancient Drew Brees and Tom Brady can still play at MVP caliber levels. Their passing offenses don't revolve around arm strength. They revolve around precision and accuracy. It's what makes NE so hard to stop and why they look for specific attributes in WRs that other teams may not value as much (football IQ, route running, and ability to read the defense).

New England's offensive scheme is based on adjusting routes on the fly based on what the defense is doing. It works because Brady is a brilliant QB who reads defenses well, and they get WRs who can do the same thing. It's why WRs who don't read defenses well don't play there. Brady has to trust you to be where you need to be. It's what makes that offense so difficult to stop because they can read your coverage in real time and adjust to it. It means that they almost always have a means of beating your defense, and we all know Brady will likely know where the best match-up is. It means that there is almost always an open WR for Brady to find.

But I'll say again that you are mistaken on your evaluation of Goff's arm strength. It's much better than you think it is.

 

[LACHAMP46]

A strong arm is less necessary than ever because the passing offenses of today have evolved to revolve around shorter drops (3-step drop heavy), more shotgun, spreading the field horizontally, quicker throws, and shorter throws. Gone are the days where the majority of QB drops are 5-step and 7-step drops. Gone are the days of QBs throwing a high percentage of deep passes.

Do you believe a strong arm is necessary in the smaller windows? Like in the red-zone? similarly, why do you explain cousin's lack of redzone success? How about his game yesterday in the elements? 2 Ducks intercepted. No playoffs.
Flacco is a winner...you can't win all the time...
I don't know how Denver won last year with all the ducks Peyton was throwing..Pretty sure it wasn't him. For some reason, he came back with renewed arm strength in 2014..then just fell off the map. But in his heyday, Peyton could really throw with velocity....Brees too. AND had the deadly accuracy with anticipation.

QB's must be able to deliver an accurate, on time ball. These are helped with power & speed. It's like saying you don't need speed to be a great receiver, but it sure does help. Hence my point...you don't draft guys that high with limited physical abilities in 2016...You draft potential All-Pros in the top 10....maybe even top 15...and to me, you need at least an B, B+ arm as a QB....Look at the QB's in the NFC....Look at the favorites to make it to the Super Bowl...I'ma give you Matty Ice as a "average to below average arm talent"....barely...But Aaron, Russell, Stafford, Eli (told you Eli can throw...even better than Peyton)...are all typical QB's that can advance in ANY weather conditions. Because they have the strong arms needed to perform.
Get the balls to the targets...as fast as possible...still the name of the game.

ps...check out Connor Cook this weekend...B arm...winner...and IMO, much better pro QB than a Goff.

 

[jrry32]

Do you believe a strong arm is necessary in the smaller windows? Like in the red-zone? similarly, why do you explain cousin's lack of redzone success? How about his game yesterday in the elements? 2 Ducks intercepted. No playoffs.

No, I don't. I believe that mental processing speed, accuracy, and precision are necessary in the red-zone.

Cousin's has a lack of red-zone success? He has 36 TDs to 2 picks in the red-zone over the last two years. Joe Flacco, a guy with a strong arm, has 24 TDs to 5 picks over that period of time.

How about his game yesterday? He was playing one of the best defenses in the NFL. He had a bad game. It happens. Seattle used to have Aaron Rodgers's number. It didn't mean that having a strong arm was a detriment against Seattle.

Flacco is a winner...you can't win all the time...

Flacco is a "winner" because he's not a great QB.

I don't know how Denver won last year with all the ducks Peyton was throwing..Pretty sure it wasn't him. For some reason, he came back with renewed arm strength in 2014..then just fell off the map. But in his heyday, Peyton could really throw with velocity....Brees too. AND had the deadly accuracy with anticipation.

I'm not talking about last year. I'm talking about 2012 to 2014. Peyton had the weakest arm of any starting QB in the NFL. He still produced at an amazing level.

Peyton and Brees never threw with a lot of velocity. Both guys had average arms at their peak. Brees's arm has regressed a bit since then. Both guys did have amazing accuracy and anticipation, which are far more important attributes than arm strength.

QB's must be able to deliver an accurate, on time ball. These are helped with power & speed. It's like saying you don't need speed to be a great receiver, but it sure does help. Hence my point...you don't draft guys that high with limited physical abilities in 2016...You draft potential All-Pros in the top 10....maybe even top 15...and to me, you need at least an B, B+ arm as a QB....Look at the QB's in the NFC....Look at the favorites to make it to the Super Bowl...I'ma give you Matty Ice as a "average to below average arm talent"....barely...But Aaron, Russell, Stafford, Eli (told you Eli can throw...even better than Peyton)...are all typical QB's that can advance in ANY weather conditions. Because they have the strong arms needed to perform.
Get the balls to the targets...as fast as possible...still the name of the game.

Eli has a weak arm, dude. He's the king of ducks (since Peyton retired). The guy throws more duckish picks than Cousins.

As for your point, I recall a lot of people saying that you don't draft 6'1" 285 pound DTs high (Donald). I recall a lot of people saying that you don't draft 5'11" WRs high (OBJ). I recall a lot of people saying that you don't Guards who can't play Tackle high (Scherff). I recall a lot of people saying that you don't draft 5'11" CBs who lack great speed high (Joe Haden). The list goes on and on.

Every person finds arbitrary lines to draw in the sand. Me? My opinion is that you draft great football players high. And there's nothing in Goff's game that limits him from being great. There are a lot of things in his game that point to greatness.

ps...check out Connor Cook this weekend...B arm...winner...and IMO, much better pro QB than a Goff.

Funny you bring up Connor Cook. A guy I know has a method for eliminating QB prospects. One of those methods is the idea that guys who fail to meet the minimal level of arm strength can't succeed. Based on his study of velocity recordings of QB prospects, he eliminates guys who fall below a minimal level (54 mph). Cook was eliminated on his board for only posting 50 mph. Goff was not eliminated.

Basically, the notion that Connor Cook has a stronger arm than Goff isn't a correct one. The film and data both support that. This is coming from a person who likes Connor Cook. Cook is a touch passer, just like Kirk Cousins. It's why I compared him to Eli Manning. Below average arm strength but a whole lot of balls.

 

[LACHAMP46]

@jrry32
thanks for the discussion bruh....We shall again, agree to disagree.

 

[TheDYVKX]

I didn't read this thread, but Goff is maybe the unluckiest QB ever. He had absolutely nothing to work with besides maybe 3 players on the entire offense. Todd Gurley, who can't do anything because of the OL. Kenny Britt, who had been dealing with a bad shoulder since he came in, and playing through it. Wasn't nearly as good as he was earlier in the season. Rob Havenstein, who hurt his leg and can't put any weight on it. Dropped off significantly because of it. He literally had no one left that was worth anything.

So the fact that he's shown anything at all is remarkable to me.

 

[94niners]

Bumplestiltskin.

Just wanted to say "I told you so" to the Goff haters. No, he's not Tom Brady, but he is a legitimately solid QB in his second season. 24 TDs, 7 INTs. Approcahing 4000 yards. For a year two QB he is doing fine.

I especially love the crow that Seahawk "fans" have to eat. The 1-2th man is incapable of seeing any QB other than Wilson, so it's good that Goff has proved those idiots wrong.

 

[TexasRam]

Lol bumplestilskin.

Only a simpleton would have drawn any conclusions about Goff’s future last year, with that horrible cast around him.

 

[UKram]

Lol bumplestilskin.

Only a simpleton would have drawn any conclusions about Goff’s future last year, with that horrible cast around him.

Pah there’s a few that will still have their doubts

The narrative will be Goffs a passenger in the Gurley train,Mcvay is spoon feeding him and holding his hand ...blah blah blah ... in the desperate hope that one day they can I told you so

 

[kurtfaulk]

Pah there’s a few that will still have their doubts

The narrative will be Goffs a passenger in the Gurley train,Mcvay is spoon feeding him and holding his hand ...blah blah blah ... in the desperate hope that one day they can I told you so

i wouldn't care if the rams had mr magoo back there playing qb if they played like they did today.

luckily they have the next great qb in the nfl. this guy is gonna torch so many secondaries with mcvay. here's to 15 more years.

.

 

[kurtfaulk]

Unfortunately a good chunk of these attitudes found their way to ROD too. The game day thread yesterday got me close to cancelling my ROD membership. Goffs a bust, the Rams never should have come back to LA, bullcrap. Made me sick as a Rams fan. Hopefully these types work their way out of our forum, because it's ending up like all of those other "trash talk" forums.

i refuse to read the gameday thread for this exact reason. stopped reading it a long time ago. can't stand people badmouthing rams players.

.

 

[Boston Ram]

I do not get some of the hate this kid receives from Rams fans. You see, I experienced Alex Smith, who threw ONE TD to ELEVEN interceptions his rookie season.

You guys think the sky is falling with Goff, imagine having non-functional Alex Smith. Man... Goff showed some skill yesterday. Skill in the pocket, and he was able to throw a few solid medium ranged passes. He's a rookie. There's no way around the growing pains of that. But my goodness he is miles beyond some other rookie QBs.

I think his future is bright. That's my two sense. Hopefully you guys won't be so hard on him given that he's just learning. He wasn't even in anything remotely resembling a pro offense in college. Give him time.

I have always been a Goff fan, but your franchise got what it needed in Jimmy G. Loved this kid in the draft and got to see him with NE for years. SF gets 3 in a row since he started playing. NFC West is going to be a beast with Goff, Garoppolo and Wilson the next few years.

 

[DR RAM]

I have always been a Goff fan, but your franchise got what it needed in Jimmy G. Loved this kid in the draft and got to see him with NE for years. SF gets 3 in a row since he started playing. NFC West is going to be a beast with Goff, Garoppolo and Wilson the next few years.

Don't forget Gabbert...LOL. Seriously, good point.

 

[Boston Ram]

Don't forget Gabbert...LOL. Seriously, good point.

Keeping forgetting him lol

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

Interesting read from last year

Poor Champ must be fit to be tied right about now,

 

[Faceplant]

Lolz @ Connor Cook........I mean......yeah.

 

[OldSchool]

Bumplestiltskin.

Just wanted to say "I told you so" to the Goff haters. No, he's not Tom Brady, but he is a legitimately solid QB in his second season. 24 TDs, 7 INTs. Approcahing 4000 yards. For a year two QB he is doing fine.

I especially love the crow that Seahawk "fans" have to eat. The 1-2th man is incapable of seeing any QB other than Wilson, so it's good that Goff has proved those idiots wrong.

Thanks for stopping by! Look forward to week 17, the Niners are playing much better. While I hope it doesn't mean anything major for us it would be nice to get a big win at home vs the Niners to clinch a better playoff seed and head into the post season on a good note.

 

[Ram_Rally]

Goff is now one win away from a .500 career record. He has a career TD-int ratio of about 2:1 as well

 

[Psycho_X]

Bumplestiltskin.

Just wanted to say "I told you so" to the Goff haters. No, he's not Tom Brady, but he is a legitimately solid QB in his second season. 24 TDs, 7 INTs. Approcahing 4000 yards. For a year two QB he is doing fine.

I especially love the crow that Seahawk "fans" have to eat. The 1-2th man is incapable of seeing any QB other than Wilson, so it's good that Goff has proved those idiots wrong.

Come on, you need to quit coming to this board because I really don't want to start liking a 9er fan... just seems wrong. Was fun watching the Seahags get knocked down a peg or six though.

And I hate that those asshole Patriots traded Jimmy G to you guys. NFC West is going to be a dog fight for the foreseeable future.