Aaron Donald’s contract situation

[jrry32]

I'm sorry Donald does not seem to fit under the "We not Me" mantra of this Rams team.

Could not disagree more.

 

[jjab360]

This is a false choice. we do not have to choose between Donald and Suh/Gurley. Actually look at the cap room the team has and then demonstrate that the Rams have to make the choice you are presenting, otherwise you are just presenting and emotional, baseless premise.

Obviously, it's not a literal choice and we could fit all 3 players under the current salary cap model. It's a hypothetical situation contrasting the salary ramifications behind paying 1 HOF player what you could potentially pay 2 All Pro players. Because eventually once we're right up against the cap it could come down to that, not necessarily with these two players but with two other All Pro caliber players like Joyner and Peters.

 

[Dieter the Brock]

The Rams didn't want to pay Bennett, who was holding out after being drafted

Yes, the Rams could have drafted better. What part of them getting three firsts and three seconds was not factually correct, though? And why did you not mention such draftees as Fred Strickland and Darryl Henley and Cleveland Gary (who led the league in TDs in 1990)?

And while Bell wasn't great - he was good with the Rams.

And again - after the trade year Dickerson had one great and one good season, before being less than special for the rest of his career. That's a fact.

If anybody needs to get their facts straight, it's you, my good sir.

Hahahha okay fair enough
But come on - Henley and Strickland?
The Dickerson trade - disaster

 

[dang]

Or maybe he is hinting that his hold out was worth it. Guess we won't know till we know

I am going with this theory. He is on verge of signing and making amends for being perceived as selfish and distracting from the Rams “We not Me” culture.

 

[1maGoh]

And that would be perfectly fine, except the Chiefs paid him handsomely this offseason with a three-year contract worth $48 million, $30 million of which is guaranteed.

That is money that could have went to a secondary that through two (albeit, preseason) games has look less than stellar, money that could have signed an ample offensive guard in what has been a training camp carousel or money that maybe could have kept cornerback Bashaud Breeland inside the Chiefs dorm.

Worst of all: it’s money that may have been able to do all three.

That's from a write up somewhere else (thanks Den) that was posted on the Mahommes thread: https://ramsondemand.com/threads/mahomes-shows-off-his-arm-strength.55184/page-2

Maybe somebody ought to tell that guy that money you spend on one player doesn't affect the money you spend on other players, like some here seem to be implying.

 

[jrry32]

Obviously, it's not a literal choice and we could fit all 3 players under the current salary cap model. It's a hypothetical situation contrasting the salary ramifications behind paying 1 HOF player what you could potentially pay 2 All Pro players. Because eventually once we're right up against the cap it could come down to that, not necessarily with these two players but with two other All Pro caliber players like Joyner and Peters.

We're certainly not paying two All Pro caliber players on the DL. An All Pro caliber pass rusher is asking for similar money to Donald. So are we just going to forsake our pass rush?

If you're asking me to choose, I let Joyner, Saffold, and NRC walk to pay Donald. I think replacing guys like that is a lot easier than replacing Donald.

 

[Merlin]

AD is hinting holding out for huge money is god's plan?

He thinks his agent is God?

Don't they say that "God helps him who helps himself?" Not sure, as I missed a lot of Sunday school...

 

[ReekofRams]

Don't they say that "God helps him who helps himself?" Not sure, as I missed a lot of Sunday school...

Don't worry, we already knew that.:rimshot:

 

[RamWoodie]

I'm a Donald fan...but I'm reasonable too. This article makes sense to me:
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/07/nfl-aaron-donald-holdout-contract-value-rams

This is a TEAM game!!! He's a great player...but this team can still succeed.

 

[Akrasian]

This is a false choice. we do not have to choose between Donald and Suh/Gurley. Actually look at the cap room the team has and then demonstrate that the Rams have to make the choice you are presenting, otherwise you are just presenting and emotional, baseless premise.

Well, Gurley is guaranteed a bunch of money. He's safe. Suh is gone - the Rams won't have enough to sign him and Donald. But there are others who would be gone with signing Donald to that huge contract.

Looking at Spotrac, with Havenstein's contract the Rams will have about $41 million in cap space available. If Donald signs a contract and has a cap hit of $24 million, as many speculate, that would leave $17 million. "But wait" some will say, "it can be backloaded". Well if Donald agrees. And keep in mind that in 2020 Goff's cap hit will likely be around $25 million, and likely over $30 million in 2021 the way QB contracts are going. (5th year rookie contract tenders are priced as if they are transition tags. In 2018 for QBs that would be $20.9 million - but there was a number of very large QB contracts handed out this past offseason, and Aaron Rodgers will get an even bigger contract soon - so this number is going to skyrocket for 2019, and be even higher in 2020.) So there isn't really a lot of room for backloading. Oh, and add in Gurley's extension, which starts in 2020. So no, backloading will not be a savior.

If Donald's cap hit is $24 million, then again, that would leave the Rams with $17 million or so available (keep in mind that Spotrac is already assuming a cap increase of over $10 million, btw). Now, the Rams will need to replace one of their starting cornerbacks, a backup cornerback, their star free safety, Suh, an All Pro 2nd string guard in Saffold, their other starting guard, various backups - oh, and I suspect they will want to get a veteran backup QB. Mannion is a free agent, and will be more expensive. Allen is less than inspiring. I expect them to sign a vet backup and draft someone too. They also have holes in places like OLB and TE. Plus, of course, various backups needed. A few of the holes will be filled from within - but not all of them, and if the best backups are moved to starter, other backups will be needed. Not everybody who is cheap will work out, so the Rams will need some money for late signings. In addition, every late round draft pick and desirable UDFA will have signing bonuses - if they don't make the team, that money will count for 2019 - not necessarily a fortune, but it has to be counted too, and likely close to a million. And the practice squad costs over a million in cap space too.

Maybe the Rams can go cheap and fill all the holes - but more likely some players just won't work out. Oh, and injury replacements count against the cap too, as do players on IR. Oh, and players on the practice squad.

I want you to demonstrate with all this showing that money would be very tight, that the Rams would actually have cap space to use more than cheap rookies to fill holes. Given what cornerbacks cost, unless they use a high pick they are unlikely to replace Talib (and high picks have large cap hits). Suh won't be replaced - again, unless they use a high pick and get lucky. It will be hard to have a quality OL with this cap space. Unless they use a high draft pick and get lucky - but they only have one first after all. Free safety is likely to decline. Basically, by this point, you need to show that with signing AD to a mega contract the Rams won't likely have multiple holes they really won't be able to fill, or you are just being foolishly optimistic.

 

[Mojo Ram]

If you're asking me to choose, I let Joyner, Saffold, and NRC walk to pay Donald. I think replacing guys like that is a lot easier than replacing Donald.

No brainer.

 

[jrry32]

Now, the Rams will need to replace one of their starting cornerbacks, a backup cornerback, their star free safety, Suh, an All Pro 2nd string guard in Saffold, their other starting guard, various backups - oh, and I suspect they will want to get a veteran backup QB.

The point of having great coaches is that you don't need superstars at every position. We may already have a replacement for Saffold. Various backups are replaced every year by other various backups via the draft and cheap FA signings. Suh will be a loss, but it may not be as significant as it seems if Franklin-Myers continues to impress. Plus, Wade has been amazing at finding NTs who are undervalued elsewhere but thrive in his scheme. Safety is another position that Wade has historically excelled at replacing. As for our CBs, our top three CBs are all under contract for next year. We could cut Talib and save $8 million if we're worried about his age, but we don't necessarily have to replace a starting CB.

The key for a team like ours is identifying the guys who are integral to our scheme and true core players. You retain them and replace the others via drafting, development, and undervalued FA signings.

 

[Akrasian]

The point of having great coaches is that you don't need superstars at every position.

Which doesn't help your position. Wade can do great thanks to fitting players in to his scheme, so long as he has good players for the position. It's less clear that a player who takes a quarter or more of the cap space for the defense is a net positive. FWIW, the best Wade defense great player was at edge rusher, btw. Otherwise, there were good players everywhere. It's unlikely, however, that the Rams could have good players everywhere in 2019 with Donald getting the rumored contract. There would be holes - which is against what Wade tries to build.

Adding in that the Rams OL would be weaker - I am a big fan of Noteboom - he will not be the equivalent of Saffold, which means more trouble rushing, which means more punts, which means more pressure on the defense.

And yes, backups are replaced by new draftees - but it does require some players resigned when the depth isn't there. Oh, and it's made easier by not having players signed for more than the value they present to the team, like Donald under this scenario, where he's signed for more than any non-QB is worth. That's before factoring in possibly getting draft picks from teams that have cap room thanks to not having stars already.

 

[Akrasian]

Could not disagree more.

So, when everybody knew that his first holdout was ending (at least by reports) and he chose to wait until the day before week 1 to report for his physical - ensuring that he wouldn't be ready for opening day - that was "we, not me". Even though he couldn't learn all of his new position and all the defensive calls in time to be a full time player by week two. And this offseason, when the team could use him alongside Suh and the rest of the defensive line, to see their new positions - "we not me".

Interesting definition of "we not me"

 

[jrry32]

Which doesn't help your position.

Yes, it does. Aaron Donald is the DPOY. It's much harder to replace him than various backups and guys like Joyner, Saffold, and Mannion. You don't replace the HOFers. Those are your core players. Either ways, I'm going to drop this. Have already had the same argument a million times. When Donald gets paid, we'll finally be able to put all of the replace Donald posts in the rear-view mirror.

 

[jrry32]

So, when everybody knew that his first holdout was ending (at least by reports) and he chose to wait until the day before week 1 to report for his physical - ensuring that he wouldn't be ready for opening day - that was "we, not me". Even though he couldn't learn all of his new position and all the defensive calls in time to be a full time player by week two. And this offseason, when the team could use him alongside Suh and the rest of the defensive line, to see their new positions - "we not me".

Interesting definition of "we not me"

I recall a guy who showed up in impeccable shape, who was a dominant force by week 3, who gave 110% on the field for us, who dominated the playoff game against the Falcons, and who won Defensive Player of the Year. I also recall the Rams promising to get a deal done with him before this season after he reported last year.

It's a business. Aaron Donald wants to be paid. That's his right. To call him selfish for wanting to be paid what he's earned is ridiculous in my book. If that's your definition of we not me, good luck finding many guys in the league who fit it. Whitworth got paid to come here. Suh got paid to come here. Gurley just got a massive extension. Cooks got a massive extension. I am sure Goff will get a massive extension. None of them live up to your "we not me" definition because they didn't take less money to benefit the team.

Spare me. He brings it every week, he's a positive influence in the locker room, he's one of the hardest working players in the NFL, and he didn't mope around and play like shit last year after we refused to pay him. Trying to paint him as a selfish, me-first player because he wants what he's earned bothers me. Donald deserves better and has earned better than that treatment. I have zero respect for you or anyone else attacking his character.

 

[Akrasian]

Aaron Donald is the DPOY. It's much harder to replace him than various backups and guys like Joyner, Saffold, and Mannion. You don't replace the HOFers.

You don't replace the player, you replace his value - which includes what his salary is costing the team in other areas, including depth. Indirectly, improvement at other positions can replace anybody - the only realistic exception is star QBs, since the rules of the NFL have made it that QBs and the passing attack are heads and shoulders above anything else. But while Donald is great, if his salary ensures that in a salary cap league there will be multiple other holes, an intelligently run team can replace his value. I'd rather keep him, but not if his salary is more than a quarter than the cap space for the entire defense, including all the backups and the ten other starters.

 

[Akrasian]

I recall a guy who showed up in impeccable shape, who was a dominant force by week 3, who gave 110% on the field for us, who dominated the playoff game against the Falcons, and who won Defensive Player of the Year. I also recall the Rams promising to get a deal done with him before this season after he reported last year.

It's a business. Aaron Donald wants to be paid. That's his right. To call him selfish for wanting to be paid what he's earned is ridiculous in my book. If that's your definition of we not me, good luck finding many guys in the league who fit it. Whitworth got paid to come here. Suh got paid to come here. Gurley just got a massive extension. Cooks got a massive extension. I am sure Goff will get a massive extension. None of them live up to your "we not me" definition because they didn't take less money to benefit the team.

Spare me. He brings it every week, he's a positive influence in the locker room, he's one of the hardest working players in the NFL, and he didn't mope around and play like crap last year after we refused to pay him. Trying to paint him as a selfish, me-first player because he wants what he's earned bothers me. Donald deserves better and has earned better than that treatment. I have zero respect for you or anyone else attacking his character.

Gurley got his extension - a record amount for his position - without missing games or making a fuss. Bringing him up does not make you look good.

Ditto for Cooks.

They have not missed games for no reason except to send a message to the team. Anybody who thinks that missing games while under contract for no reason except to send a message is not really somebody deserving of respect, since YOU brought it up.

We not me doesn't mean that players don't want to be paid. However, it does mean that missing games for no reason but to throw a tantrum is wrong.

It's AD's tactics that bother me, not wanting to get paid. It's sad that you can't see what's wrong with his tactics, and YET try to identify Gurley's negotiations with his. Hint: they weren't vaguely alike. Gurley never missed a game under contract, for instance.

 

[jrry32]

Gurley got his extension - a record amount for his position - without missing games or making a fuss. Bringing him up does not make you look good.

Ditto for Cooks.

They have not missed games for no reason except to send a message to the team. Anybody who thinks that missing games while under contract for no reason except to send a message is not really somebody deserving of respect, since YOU brought it up.

We not me doesn't mean that players don't want to be paid. However, it does mean that missing games for no reason but to throw a tantrum is wrong.

It's AD's tactics that bother me, not wanting to get paid. It's sad that you can't see what's wrong with his tactics, and YET try to identify Gurley's negotiations with his. Hint: they weren't vaguely alike. Gurley never missed a game under contract, for instance.

Akrasian, I have no interest in saying anything more. I don't respect the shit you're pulling here. With all Donald has done for this team, he doesn't deserve to have his name dragged through the mud and his character attacked. I see nothing wrong with his tactics, and you're not going to change my mind. It's quite clear where you stand, and I won't change your mind. Good night.

 

[Karate61]

Before or after taxes?

Assuming he pays, give or take 50% in taxes, he's down to 41 years, which barely gets him to your standard retirement age, never mind into his 80s or 90s, which more and more people are living to. Of course this doesn't factor in any gifts he may give to family, friends, or charities, or any purchases he may want to make. $4000 a day may seem like a lot (and of course it is, really), but that's "only" $1.46 million per year. He couldn't even pay for a luxury house outright (the horror!).

Mind you, this doesn't factor in any endorsements he might make, or what have you. But still... Given "that" kind of lifestyle, $120 million can be blown fairly easy.

(I get it, I'm merely arguing for the sake of arguing, none of us will make that amount of money, but none of us live in that world either, and in that world $120 million may not seem like as much as it does to you and I, as insane as that may seem)

You left out interest!

$120,000,000 x 50% tax = $60,000,000

$60,000,000 ×3% annual interest = $1,800,000 yr.

$1,800,000 ÷ 365 Days = $4,931 Per Day!

That's $4,931 Per Day...Forever!!!