Aaron Donald’s contract situation

[ReekofRams]

As I mentioned above, with Havenstein signed and not counting AD, there are 5 starter spots who are FAs. There are also backups that need to be replaced (including backup QB, and any backups desirable as starters to replace FAs like Noteboom). At least 1 OLB it looks like. Maybe both, although a platoon might work out for one spot. TEs have not yet produced under McVay, even though in Washington it was one of the more important positions on the offense.

In terms of Donald not being a crapshoot - ask the Texans whether their 3-time DPOY player who had never been injured before signing his big contract is a crapshoot or not. EVERYBODY in the NFL is a crapshoot, just some bigger than others. Putting 1/7 of the salary cap space into one non-QB makes it more likely that if an injury occurs the team is crippled.

There is more than one way to build a team - while wanting stars, some of us would also like to have very deep teams so injuries don't automatically derail the success and so teams don't have weak spots to target. While so far the front office looks like they have plans to fill holes, it's also the case that not all of it has been successful yet (or TEs would be a much larger part of the offense, backup QB wouldn't seem to be a major issue, and OLBs wouldn't be needing an upgrade), and it will get MUCH harder with Donald at a record contract, and starting in 2020 Goff getting even more money.

@Akrasian I understand where you're coming from, and that you want to do it the Patriot way. The Patriot way had only worked for one reason, and that reason is Tom Brady, and even he is tired of it.

So like the rest of the league we have to find the players that you want to build your team around, and those players will get paid way more than the rest of the players. That's the way this league is set up, you can't fight it and win.

Now you add to this a player who is a once in a life time player, that no one has seen anything like him, you don't let him go. Donald is the type of player that you build a defense around.

One more thing, don't fool yourself, the Rams would never get equal value in return if we do as you are strongly suggesting, and that is trade him. You'll never get a fair deal for a young up and coming game changer.

 

[OldSchool]

Oh, and this assumes that Snead keeps all the picks

This thread and the AD thread and most of this board for that matter are assumptions by all of us

 

[Akrasian]

@Akrasian I understand where you're coming from, and that you want to do it the Patriot way. The Patriot way had only worked for one reason, and that reason is Tom Brady, and even he is tired of it.

So like the rest of the league we have to find the players that you want to build your team around, and those players will get paid way more than the rest of the players. That's the way this league is set up, you can't fight it and win.

Now you add to this a player who is a once in a life time player, that no one has seen anything like him, you don't let him go. Donald is the type of player that you build a defense around.

One more thing, don't fool yourself, the Rams would never get equal value in return if we do as you are strongly suggesting, and that is trade him. You'll never get a fair deal for a young up and coming game changer.

The Rams already have more big contracts than the Patriots. They aren't just cloning the Patriot way. However, the NFL salary cap is designed to not allow teams to accumulate too many big contracts, especially if they wish to have needed depth long term. The cap goes up - and players getting new contracts that year see their AAV rise up. Backups you were hoping to keep at one price suddenly are getting $5 million per from a team with a hole to fill. You can either keep that in mind, or keep signing everybody to contracts larger than their positions and performance merit.

AD is a great player - but he is a defender, in a league that has steadily been shifting the emphasis to the offense with rule changes. Donald is valuable - but he is not more valuable than Gurley was last season, for instance. He's not more valuable in the NFL 2018 than a good but not great QB. Plugging somebody decent into his spot can be made up for by not having big holes elsewhere in the defense, coupled with a couple of good players. Having a better linebacker corps with a better (but not dominating) edge rusher can replace the value of AD, while not actually replacing AD directly. Having a TE that keeps drives alive routinely keeping the offense on the field helps the defense too. Having the resources to keep the OL top notch does that too. AD is a great player, but the Rams CAN replace his value, since the NFL is a team sport, far more than baseball or basketball is.

I don't know what value AD can get back in return. You apparently do, since you're confident that they won't get "equal" value. I think it is possible to do so, from a team that does not already possess a number of stars and needs someone to build around. The devil is in the details, of course. But the cap savings would also help, to go along with picks or young players.

Excepting a star QB, I don't think any player in the NFL is not replaceable though. Teams should always keep their options open to see what is available. Ironically, THAT is part of the Patriot way.

 

[12intheBox]

View: https://twitter.com/rammy_la/status/1032714054400438273?s=21


I would say, no that’s not encouraging at all.

 

[Picked4td]

View: https://twitter.com/rammy_la/status/1032714054400438273?s=21


I would say, no that’s not encouraging at all.

I agree, he’s clearly too religous. Cut his ass

 

[Ramstien]

You would trade a super star, one of the best defensive players of all time for 3 possible good players? I'm sorry but you sound like you work in the Cleveland Browns office.

I guess you don't remember the Dickerson trade, he was a super star. Donald needs to come down to earth, the Rams have offered him a huge payday. Put his ego aside take the money and play football, what else can he do to make that kind of money. If $21 million is not enough for him let him sit at home and watch the Rams win the next Super Bowl.

 

[bubbaramfan]

AD is hinting holding out for huge money is god's plan?

He thinks his agent is God?

 

[Stl2La]

AD is hinting holding out for huge money is god's plan?

He thinks his agent is God?

Yes that is clearly what he is saying.

 

[96GS#007]

AD is hinting holding out for huge money is god's plan?

He thinks his agent is God?

God wants 10% so AD needs more to cover that expense

 

[ReekofRams]

I guess you don't remember the Dickerson trade, he was a super star. Donald needs to come down to earth, the Rams have offered him a huge payday. Put his ego aside take the money and play football, what else can he do to make that kind of money. If $21 million is not enough for him let him sit at home and watch the Rams win the next Super Bowl.

That there helps support my idea, not yours. You don't get fair value in return when you trade a super star.

 

[Akrasian]

That there helps support my idea, not yours. You don't get fair value in return when you trade a super star.

The Rams were 1-5 when they traded Dickerson. They were 10-6 the next season.

They got two running backs including Greg Bell, three first round picks, and three second rounders.

Dickerson was very good the rest of the season for the Colts, had a great season in 1988, a good season in 1989, then basically was mediocre or worse the rest of his career. Bell wasn't as good - but did gain over 2300 yards in 1988 and 1989.

Basically, the Rams kicked ass with that trade - better by the next season, and better for years to come. Meanwhile, within a couple of seasons the Colts went 1-15, thanks to trading away a massive amount of depth and Dickerson becoming ineffective (and a troublemaker).

I mean - what do you consider fair value? The Herschel Walker trade? If you consider fair value totally ripping off the other team, that's fine - I suspect fair value is more like each side wishes they had either given up less or got more in the trade, so nobody is totally satisfied, because everybody overvalues their contribution.

I believe that the Rams could get fair value for Donald, though obviously every Rams fan would want even more. Of course, part of that belief is that I think a contract that actually gets Donald to play before the latter part of the season would be more expensive than Donald is worth in a salary cap league that favors the offense. I have him at most the 3rd or 4th most valuable Ram last season (Gurley, Goff, maybe Whitworth ahead of him). I think the Rams will keep him, because they are all in for this season - but there is a chance they would have been better in 2018 if they'd traded him at the beginning of the league year, and very likely would have been better in 2019 and beyond if they'd done so instead of giving him a huge contract.

Oh well.

 

[Dieter the Brock]

The Rams were 1-5 when they traded Dickerson. They were 10-6 the next season.

They got two running backs including Greg Bell, three first round picks, and three second rounders.

Dickerson was very good the rest of the season for the Colts, had a great season in 1988, a good season in 1989, then basically was mediocre or worse the rest of his career. Bell wasn't as good - but did gain over 2300 yards in 1988 and 1989.

Basically, the Rams kicked ass with that trade - better by the next season, and better for years to come. Meanwhile, within a couple of seasons the Colts went 1-15, thanks to trading away a massive amount of depth and Dickerson becoming ineffective (and a troublemaker).

I mean - what do you consider fair value? The Herschel Walker trade? If you consider fair value totally ripping off the other team, that's fine - I suspect fair value is more like each side wishes they had either given up less or got more in the trade, so nobody is totally satisfied, because everybody overvalues their contribution.

I believe that the Rams could get fair value for Donald, though obviously every Rams fan would want even more. Of course, part of that belief is that I think a contract that actually gets Donald to play before the latter part of the season would be more expensive than Donald is worth in a salary cap league that favors the offense. I have him at most the 3rd or 4th most valuable Ram last season (Gurley, Goff, maybe Whitworth ahead of him). I think the Rams will keep him, because they are all in for this season - but there is a chance they would have been better in 2018 if they'd traded him at the beginning of the league year, and very likely would have been better in 2019 and beyond if they'd done so instead of giving him a huge contract.

Oh well.

Sorry
But the trade should have been Cornelius Bennet
But it wasn't
Instead we got Gaston Greene and AZ St Aaron Cox and Handful on change
Greg Bell doesn't cut it
Get the facts straight, you're wayyyyy off

 

[ReekofRams]

The Rams were 1-5 when they traded Dickerson. They were 10-6 the next season.

They got two running backs including Greg Bell, three first round picks, and three second rounders.

Dickerson was very good the rest of the season for the Colts, had a great season in 1988, a good season in 1989, then basically was mediocre or worse the rest of his career. Bell wasn't as good - but did gain over 2300 yards in 1988 and 1989.

Basically, the Rams kicked ass with that trade - better by the next season, and better for years to come. Meanwhile, within a couple of seasons the Colts went 1-15, thanks to trading away a massive amount of depth and Dickerson becoming ineffective (and a troublemaker).

I mean - what do you consider fair value? The Herschel Walker trade? If you consider fair value totally ripping off the other team, that's fine - I suspect fair value is more like each side wishes they had either given up less or got more in the trade, so nobody is totally satisfied, because everybody overvalues their contribution.

I believe that the Rams could get fair value for Donald, though obviously every Rams fan would want even more. Of course, part of that belief is that I think a contract that actually gets Donald to play before the latter part of the season would be more expensive than Donald is worth in a salary cap league that favors the offense. I have him at most the 3rd or 4th most valuable Ram last season (Gurley, Goff, maybe Whitworth ahead of him). I think the Rams will keep him, because they are all in for this season - but there is a chance they would have been better in 2018 if they'd traded him at the beginning of the league year, and very likely would have been better in 2019 and beyond if they'd done so instead of giving him a huge contract.

Oh well.

Tell me who not what did we get for Dickerson? Were the Rams happy with the trade. Do rams fans still get annoyed to this day that miss Flauntass decided to trade Dickerson? Oh, and you forgot to mention that Dickerson had led the Rams to the playoffs the 3 previous years, and had to play with the all time great QB Dieter Brock. He was the Rams offense. Pulease.

 

[Akrasian]

Sorry
But the trade should have been Cornelius Bennet
But it wasn't
Instead we gor Gaston Greene and AZ St Aaron Cox
Greg Bell doesn't cut it
Get the facts straight, you're wayyyyy off

The Rams didn't want to pay Bennett, who was holding out after being drafted

Yes, the Rams could have drafted better. What part of them getting three firsts and three seconds was not factually correct, though? And why did you not mention such draftees as Fred Strickland and Darryl Henley and Cleveland Gary (who led the league in TDs in 1990)?

And while Bell wasn't great - he was good with the Rams.

And again - after the trade year Dickerson had one great and one good season, before being less than special for the rest of his career. That's a fact.

If anybody needs to get their facts straight, it's you, my good sir.

 

[Akrasian]

Tell me who not what did we get for Dickerson? Were the Rams happy with the trade. Do rams fans still get annoyed to this day that miss Flauntass decided to trade Dickerson? Oh, and you forgot to mention that Dickerson had led the Rams to the playoffs the 3 previous years, and had to play with the
all time great QB Dieter Brock. He was the Rams offense. Pulease.

But he wasn't playing hard anymore - the team was sucking with him, because he was a distraction. Then the next season, they suddenly were good again without him. Funny how that works. No player is bigger than the team. And like it or not, the Rams got a huge amount for him, even if they should have drafted better. Even with poor drafting, they were better off. If Snead and McVay got three firsts, three seconds, plus a competent replacement for Donald the league would be in a panic over the Rams' dynasty.

 

[ReekofRams]

But he wasn't playing hard anymore - the team was sucking with him, because he was a distraction. Then the next season, they suddenly were good again without him. Funny how that works. No player is bigger than the team. And like it or not, the Rams got a huge amount for him, even if they should have drafted better. Even with poor drafting, they were better off. If Snead and McVay got three firsts, three seconds, plus a competent replacement for Donald the league would be in a panic over the Rams' dynasty.

Wow, sounds like a lot of ifs. Donald is not an if, so I'll stick with him. You go on living in your dreams, and I'd rather live in reality.

 

[Akrasian]

Wow, sounds like a lot of ifs. Donald is not an if, so I'll stick with him. You go on living in your dreams, and I'd rather live in reality.

You mean the reality IF Donald doesn't get injured, unlike Watt? And the world where Donald doesn't start declining rapidly, as does often occur? You mean the world where Donald is demanding to be paid more than any non-QB, especially a defender, is worth? And not just by a little bit, but by many millions.

Dickerson did decline after a little while with the Colts, and became a serious distraction to the team. Are you certain that Donald won't decide to miss time trying to renegotiate his contract if someone ends up with a bigger contract?

The Rams were better off with the Dickerson trade, even though it was not yet a salary cap league and even though they drafted poorly. They still were a better team overall than they were with a disgruntled Dickerson, who would hold out, renegotiate, then only be satisfied for a little while. Meanwhile, even though he is under contract, Donald held out last year, missed a game and was not fully up to speed for game two. What will he do this season?

Strange how your "reality" doesn't actually include things like that. Or include the loss of depth because Donald is paid too much - depth that could be helped with the extra cap room and getting picks. Nope, you get to cherry pick your reality I guess.

 

[ReekofRams]

You mean the reality IF Donald doesn't get injured, unlike Watt? And the world where Donald doesn't start declining rapidly, as does often occur? You mean the world where Donald is demanding to be paid more than any non-QB, especially a defender, is worth? And not just by a little bit, but by many millions.

Dickerson did decline after a little while with the Colts, and became a serious distraction to the team. Are you certain that Donald won't decide to miss time trying to renegotiate his contract if someone ends up with a bigger contract?

The Rams were better off with the Dickerson trade, even though it was not yet a salary cap league and even though they drafted poorly. They still were a better team overall than they were with a disgruntled Dickerson, who would hold out, renegotiate, then only be satisfied for a little while. Meanwhile, even though he is under contract, Donald held out last year, missed a game and was not fully up to speed for game two. What will he do this season?

Strange how your "reality" doesn't actually include things like that. Or include the loss of depth because Donald is paid too much - depth that could be helped with the extra cap room and getting picks. Nope, you get to cherry pick your reality I guess.

@Akrasian I believe I'm upsetting you, and I'm sorry if that is the case, as that is not what I meant to do. You've always been one of the better posters herr, accept when you disagree with me, and I've always valued your opinion. But in this area I think we ought to agree to disagree. I will look forward to reading your future post

 

[tempests]

Even with poor drafting, they were better off.

I think it's generally believed that the 1988 and especially 1989 Rams would've been a better team with Eric Dickerson than Greg Bell. Bell might've scored a lot of TDs, but he was an ineffective runner for most of that year, even with the Rams featuring a top 5 passing attack.

Rams went on a four game losing streak in the middle of 1989 that cost them the division. Bell hardly contributed anything during that time. It's easy to imagine Dickerson, with the passing game he never had, changing the outcome in at least a couple of those games and maybe the season.

No way to know for sure, but the Rams trading Dickerson may have cost them a Super Bowl, and they quickly sank into the depths of the league after that.

 

[Mojo Ram]

Merging with Donald thread. A few posts about the the thread title followed by a ton of more Donald speculation.