Single Biggest Factor Holding this Team Back

[brokeu91]

You know that's not fair for Tavon.

-Schotty held him back
- Clemens held everyone back, not his fault Sam got hurt.
- He's a rookie!
- We have more than enough weapons for a running team.
- Didnt have to be the top prospect? I think it did. I'm not a big fan of Evans.
- Fisher had expressed confidence Austin will have a better year.
- We have 6 WR's, you want a legit 7th?

I don't have time to keep going.

I have no doubt, at all, that Tavon will have a better year than last year. The light bulb was finally going on for him before he got hurt. He was seemingly coming up with at least one big play a game before the injury. Had he not gotten hurt I think he ends up with at least nearly as many receiving yards as Givens.

 

[Rams and Gators]

You know that's not fair for Tavon.

-Schotty held him back
- Clemens held everyone back, not his fault Sam got hurt.
- He's a rookie!
- We have more than enough weapons for a running team.
- Didnt have to be the top prospect? I think it did. I'm not a big fan of Evans.
- Fisher had expressed confidence Austin will have a better year.
- We have 6 WR's, you want a legit 7th?

I don't have time to keep going.

I think his point was that Austin as a rookie outperformed Givens, so the argument that a rookie wouldn't outperform Givens is incorrect. If anything you've just reinforced his point .

 

[max]

I think it's mostly inexperience. Another huge factor is instability.

They got off on the wrong foot last year when their wide open passing game crashed, their defense started slowly, and their running game was puny. And there were clear reasons for all of it. Saffold gets hurt right off the bat, so we get no push in the running game, and they hadn't figured out that Stacy was the best RB we had yet. We were getting gouged in our run defense and the loss of Dunbar and the inexperience of Ogletree hurt big time and that Walton was in way over his head as a DC. Too much pressure was put on the passing game and the WRs just weren't good enough to make Bradford's job easier. Then by the time we get the running game going, Bradford goes down. And it was after Bradford went down that the defense FINALLY put it together especially on the run defense. Remember how the Texans just tore up our run D?

I believe there's a good chance that we start out where we left off on defense last year and actually it should be much better with GWilliams running the show and the influx of talent with Donald and the rookie DBs. This has got to make Bradford's job a lot easier than what he had to face last year as far as having good field position and multiple opportunities versus playing from behind. Then toss in the power running game with Stacy and Mason running behind Saffold and the Big G, and Bradford's job gets even easier. It should be comparable to what Russell Wilson had last year only the Rams OL is better and so are the Rams WRs.

Really what I think it will come down to is Bradford's performance. If he's as good as Wilson we should go to the Super Bowl. If he's as good as Alex Smith we should make the playoffs. Neither of those guys had a solid receiving corp but they got the job done with good D and a solid running game.

It's gonna be very interesting to see how it goes for SB this year if the D plays great and the running game is solid. Bailey and Austin are quality weapons. They are as good or better than anything the Seahawks had last year. Add Quick, Givens, and Britt to the mix and should one of them emerge then we've got a solid WR corps; More than enough for SB to get the job done. And clearly our STs are top notch, good as any in the NFL. If the WRs are decent, and the D and running game go as expected then it will all fall on Bradford's shoulders. Everybody knows it, but no one knows if Bradford will get it done.

 

[Flipper_336]

I'll say penalties but with a caveat.

Seattle and San Fran often get away with blatant holding; how come we don't? If the rules were applied equally, everyone would be happier.

 

[iced]

Question. Are you predicting our ridiculously young receivers to just not get better?

Are you predicting them to get better? Or just putting blind faith into the "hope" that they will. The only receiver you can point to that was better by season end last year was Bailey, and his 2 or 3 games that he played are way to small of a sample size.

There are countless examples of receivers getting off to a rocky start and then transforming and developing into that mythical "no.1 receiver" you so badly desire.

And yet there are countless other examples of rookie receivers having an impact, like Keenan Allen last year, and Tavon Austin.

The fact that our starting receiver had almost double the snaps (with 3 more games), Less catches, higher drop rate, 5 less Td's (well, ZERO TD'S) less than Tavon,a rookie (who usually don't make impacts right), says all you should need to know about the talent level at the position..

 

[iced]

nm

 

[RamzFanz]

Schotty

 

[Thordaddy]

Exactly. It's as plain as the nose on your face.

I'll have you know there is nothing plain about my nose,what though is plain is that this would be your answer,I respectfully disagree and submit that it's plain we have the people, to me , the coaching ,the GM, but not to some who find it hard to see that those recs. need good consistent QB play and the QB has missed nearly one out of two games over the last two years

 

[Rams and Gators]

I'll have you know there is nothing plain about my nose,what though is plain is that this would be your answer,I respectfully disagree and submit that it's plain we have the people, to me , the coaching ,the GM, but not to some who find it hard to see that those recs. need good consistent QB play and the QB has missed nearly one out of two games over the last two years

? Math ?

 

[-X-]

last year was Bailey, and his 2 or 3 games that he played are way to small of a sample size.

Well, aren't you kind of putting blind faith into the "hope" that Watkins would be a difference maker? What if he turned out to be Roy Williams, Charles Rogers, Reggie Williams, Troy Williamson or David Terrell? I wouldn't even necessarily call it blind faith that ours will improve. That's implying that our coaching staff can't evaluate the personnel on hand and are just hoping they come along. Even further, are basing the success of their careers on luck. That seems unlikely.

The fact that our starting receiver had almost double the snaps (with 3 more games), Less catches, higher drop rate, 5 less Td's (well, ZERO TD'S) less than Tavon,a rookie (who usually don't make impacts right), says all you should need to know about the talent level at the position..

That really doesn't have to be an indication of anything. Could be an anomaly. Why didn't you say how well Chris Givens did in relation to the other receivers at the time when he was a rookie? Besides that, you're comparing him to a receiver who plays X, Y, Z, HB and was drafted 3 rounds higher. Givens is supposed to be a role player who stretches the defense. He wasn't drafted to be a #1 (at least I never heard a coach say that). If he can get back to form (completely possible), and Tavon improves upon his role of a playmaking utility receiver, while Pettis stays solid as a 3rd down receiver and Bailey evolves into a very good possession receiver, then what's the problem? That doesn't even include the 2 TE sets with Cook, Kendricks and Harkey, or the protection being put in place to give the QB time to scan all of these options.

 

[Alan]

I'm the only one who picked lack of depth but if we had good depth then the injuries we had last year wouldn't have have such a big impact.

 

[iced]

That really doesn't have to be an indication of anything. Could be an anomaly. Why didn't you say how well Chris Givens did in relation to the other receivers at the time when he was a rookie?

People keep arguing that rookie receivers don't make impacts....

yet, the bar is set so low here, they don't have to do much have an impact, imo.

Besides that, you're comparing him to a receiver who plays X, Y, Z, HB and was drafted 3 rounds higher. Givens is supposed to be a role player who stretches the defense.

I also mentioned Keenan Allan (another rookie receiver, 3rd round)

He wasn't drafted to be a #1 (at least I never heard a coach say that).

Have you ever heard a coach say he was drafted to be a #2 or #3?

If he can get back to form (completely possible), and Tavon improves upon his role of a playmaking utility receiver, while Pettis stays solid as a 3rd down receiver and Bailey evolves into a very good possession receiver, then what's the problem? That doesn't even include the 2 TE sets with Cook, Kendricks and Harkey, or the protection being put in place to give the QB time to scan all of these options.

This plans sounds contingent on a lot "What If's". Outside Tavon, you're hoping for improvement, imo, based on nothing but faith. Least I haven't seen any indications.

how do you expect Givens to make the leap to be better than his rookie season, when he actually regressed? That just doesn't make sense...a guy plays at a lower level, so we're suddenly going to expect him to play at a higher level, than he did before?

That's called wishful thinking, imo.

 

[Prime Time]

Voted other.
It's the losing culture.

Same here. The stench of so many years of losing is not totally gone. It's getting better to be sure but we're still not yet over the hump.

 

[-X-]

People keep arguing that rookie receivers don't make impacts....

yet, the bar is set so low here, they don't have to do much have an impact, imo.

Because the bar was set with rookies starting in 2012. Do ANY receivers need to develop, or are they all Keenan Allen?

Have you ever heard a coach say he was drafted to be a #2 or #3?

No, but I never heard a coach say he was drafted to be a coffee table either. It was deductive reasoning.

This plans sounds contingent on a lot "What If's". Outside Tavon, you're hoping for improvement, imo, based on nothing but faith. Least I haven't seen any indications.

how do you expect Givens to make the leap to be better than his rookie season, when he actually regressed? That just doesn't make sense...a guy plays at a lower level, so we're suddenly going to expect him to play at a higher level, than he did before?

That's called wishful thinking, imo.

As I said, you're implying the coaches are just tossing pennies into a fountain and hoping for the best. I maintain that they KNOW who they have (and Les Snead said as much prior to the draft if anyone was paying attention) and are using their experience to form an experienced assessment of the receivers they have on hand. Sure, I'm hoping for improvement; but like them, I'm also expecting it. If you don't, that's fine. One thing is certain. Neither of us are certain.

 

[iced]

Because the bar was set with rookies starting in 2012. Do ANY receivers need to develop, or are they all Keenan Allen?

You're missing the point - it was said Rookies rarely or don't have impacts, I provided 2 examples off the top of my head that contradict what he said.

No, but I never heard a coach say he was drafted to be a coffee table either. It was deductive reasoning.

I can't recall hearing a coach say "we drafted this receiver to be a #1" - usually its always something about competition at the position is great....

As I said, you're implying the coaches are just tossing pennies into a fountain and hoping for the best. I maintain that they KNOW who they have (and Les Snead said as much prior to the draft if anyone was paying attention) and are using their experience to form an experienced assessment of the receivers they have on hand. Sure, I'm hoping for improvement; but like them, I'm also expecting it. If you don't, that's fine. One thing is certain. Neither of us are certain.

I expect Growth out of Tavon - but I haven't seen anyone who has separated himself as "The Guy" vs Just another guy/role player.

 

[rhinobean]

I think it's mostly inexperience. Another huge factor is instability.

They got off on the wrong foot last year when their wide open passing game crashed, their defense started slowly, and their running game was puny. And there were clear reasons for all of it. Saffold gets hurt right off the bat, so we get no push in the running game, and they hadn't figured out that Stacy was the best RB we had yet. We were getting gouged in our run defense and the loss of Dunbar and the inexperience of Ogletree hurt big time and that Walton was in way over his head as a DC. Too much pressure was put on the passing game and the WRs just weren't good enough to make Bradford's job easier. Then by the time we get the running game going, Bradford goes down. And it was after Bradford went down that the defense FINALLY put it together especially on the run defense. Remember how the Texans just tore up our run D?

I believe there's a good chance that we start out where we left off on defense last year and actually it should be much better with GWilliams running the show and the influx of talent with Donald and the rookie DBs. This has got to make Bradford's job a lot easier than what he had to face last year as far as having good field position and multiple opportunities versus playing from behind. Then toss in the power running game with Stacy and Mason running behind Saffold and the Big G, and Bradford's job gets even easier. It should be comparable to what Russell Wilson had last year only the Rams OL is better and so are the Rams WRs.

Really what I think it will come down to is Bradford's performance. If he's as good as Wilson we should go to the Super Bowl. If he's as good as Alex Smith we should make the playoffs. Neither of those guys had a solid receiving corp but they got the job done with good D and a solid running game.

It's gonna be very interesting to see how it goes for SB this year if the D plays great and the running game is solid. Bailey and Austin are quality weapons. They are as good or better than anything the Seahawks had last year. Add Quick, Givens, and Britt to the mix and should one of them emerge then we've got a solid WR corps; More than enough for SB to get the job done. And clearly our STs are top notch, good as any in the NFL. If the WRs are decent, and the D and running game go as expected then it will all fall on Bradford's shoulders. Everybody knows it, but no one knows if Bradford will get it done.

My thoughts exactly! Sam shows the rest of the NFL that he's the Man in STL and the Rams are playoff bound! This and what you said about the rest of the team!

 

[-X-]

Weeeeee. This is fun, quoting each other in sets.

You're missing the point - it was said Rookies rarely or don't have impacts, I provided 2 examples off the top of my head that contradict what he said.

No, you're missing the point. It was said a rookie (Watkins) is all we needed. Shall I provide 7 or 8 more examples of first round receivers that don't have impacts?

I can't recall hearing a coach say "we drafted this receiver to be a #1" - usually its always something about competition at the position is great....

That's precisely my point. When I said that I don't recall a coach saying Givens was drafted to be a #1, it was to say that I literally never heard a coach say that on this team about any receiver. Which means that they have the desire to assemble a *group* of guys with very different and specific traits in order to create mismatches.

I expect Growth out of Tavon - but I haven't seen anyone who has separated himself as "The Guy" vs Just another guy/role player.

You may not see anyone who separates himself as "the guy" either. That doesn't mean there won't be a few very good ones.

 

[mr.stlouis]

I think his point was that Austin as a rookie outperformed Givens, so the argument that a rookie wouldn't outperform Givens is incorrect. If anything you've just reinforced his point .

Givens as a rookie lit it up, too. Rams were in some form of funk last year. Having an identity crisis the first month of the season is never a good thing. They were starting to figure it out then boom, Bradford's done.

That season was dang near a total loss. This year is like a do-over with more awesome players.

 

[Thordaddy]

? Math ?

Oops skipped a year my bad

 

[iced]

Weeeeee. This is fun, quoting each other in sets.

No, you're missing the point. It was said a rookie (Watkins) is all we needed. Shall I provide 7 or 8 more examples of first round receivers that don't have impacts?

Except I never said this - but I was responding to what was actually said to me lol

That's precisely my point. When I said that I don't recall a coach saying Givens was drafted to be a #1, it was to say that I literally never heard a coach say that on this team about any receiver. Which means that they have the desire to assemble a *group* of guys with very different and specific traits in order to create mismatches.

....And yet they're still looking for one that particular trait in 2 receivers - "starter"

You may not see anyone who separates himself as "the guy" either. That doesn't mean there won't be a few very good ones.

I know they will keep it an open competition til someone does... Givens did finally start to lose playing time toward the end of the season...but how much of that was bailey and not tavon being hurt?