Qb competition

[UKram]

This slow release and footwork stuff is played out the guy can throw that ball he it sure worked out for Brandon Cooks and it turned Spruce into a wr that eveyonebwanna see play. People hear something being said and just regurgitate it like it's gospel. People do get better and he has on both fronts in limited practice and playing time so that tells me he puts a lot of work in by himself to get better

Or maybe spruce made mannion look better

 

[dieterbrock]

Mannion has a much better deep ball than Goff.

We are reaching levels of absurd, but show me one of these throws of Mannions that are better than these throws (in the NFL)

View: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000750816/Jared-Goff-finds-Kenny-Britt-for-66-yards

http://www.seahawks.com/video/2016/12/15/mike-thomas-drops-pass-jared-goff

I guess cause he is a number 1 pick he must be the greatest ever and no other QB can come close.

Strawman much?
I already said I wouldn't mind competition. Just that Sean Mannion, and his flaws, shouldn't be competition for Goff.

 

[Dxmissile]

Or maybe spruce made mannion look better

By doing his job.. Mannion was throwing strikes to Spruce that entire game. Big clutch throws where only Spruce could get it.

 

[OldSchool]

Then how can you see anything Good from Goff when he has had more opportunity then Mannion. I don't get the love for a guy that's 0-7 with way more turnovers then touchdowns that holds the ball too long takes a lot of unnecessary sacks and just looked completely overwhelmed. I guess cause he is a number 1 pick he must be the greatest ever and no other QB can come close. That 6ypa is looking pretty unstoppable

Yet Mannions 3-6 19 yards 3.2 ypa and an int is a great stat line. So good we should give him more playing time?

 

[Rams43]

He didn't beat out Tony Romo. If the Cowboys were to hold a QB competition, Romo would murk that kid. Stop spreading that 7-9 B.S.

I'm speechless, Scirca.

Or were you jesting?

If Prescott didn't beat out Romo, why didn't Romo resume starting duties once he regained his health?

 

[UKram]

By doing his job.. Mannion was throwing strikes to Spruce that entire game. Big clutch throws where only Spruce could get it.

Or maybe spruce had to make mega acrobatic catches because mannion couldn't hit him

 

[Dxmissile]

We are reaching levels of absurd, but show me one of these throws of Mannions that are better than these throws (in the NFL)

View: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000750816/Jared-Goff-finds-Kenny-Britt-for-66-yards

http://www.seahawks.com/video/2016/12/15/mike-thomas-drops-pass-jared-goff


Strawman much?
I already said I wouldn't mind competition. Just that Sean Mannion, and his flaws, shouldn't be competition for Goff.

Guy only got like 10 passes in the NFL but I'm not going to show you a incompletion at the 3:35 mark on third down while getting blasted.
View: https://youtu.be/VSzrprs3zLo

 

[Dxmissile]

Or maybe spruce had to make mega acrobatic catches because mannion couldn't hit him

Lol ok or maybe if Goff knew how to keep passes in bound the receivers wouldn't be so surprised when they actually got a decent ball

 

[Dxmissile]

Yet Mannions 3-6 19 yards 3.2 ypa and an int is a great stat line. So good we should give him more playing time?

Lol this is sad that's entirely my point he don't have enough tape but the tape Goff have is shitty as shit so why can't there be a competition whether Goff wins it or not no one should feel like they are safe with a new HC

 

[jrry32]

Watch Mannions highlights and tell me what you see. His arm strength is on Par with Goff

Close enough that I won't debate it. But Goff has far more potential in this department.

Sonia his accuracy

Wrong.

and he moved better inside the pocket then Goff.

Painfully wrong.

Goff made a lot of plays outside the pocket. His footwork look better than Goff this year maybe that's because Goff wasn't comfortable and Mannions drop back looked much better then Goff. Mannion to be is more fluid in his motions then Goff and once again maybe that's because Goff wasn't comfortable but me watching Goff all throughout college and in his limited snaps in the pros I don't see a big drop off in pure talent from Goff to Mannion but what I do see is one guy is much more ready and able to handle being a NFL QB then the other

There's a huge drop-off in pure talent. Goff was better in every phase of the game as a prospect. He'll be better in every phase of the game as a pro.

 

[jrry32]

I'm speechless, Scirca.

Or were you jesting?

If Prescott didn't beat out Romo, why didn't Romo resume starting duties once he regained his health?

Prescott didn't beat out Romo. Romo had the starting job. He got injured.

Why didn't the Cowboys give Romo the job back? Because Prescott is 23 years old, healthy, and on a cheap contract. Romo is 36 years old, constantly injured, and on an expensive contract. It made no sense to pull a rookie QB having a great season for a QB who has one or two years left before retirement.

Romo was and is still the better QB. But Dallas had an eye towards their future. Dak is their future; Romo is not.

 

[bluecoconuts]

Mannion has a much better deep ball than Goff. And Mannion ran a much similar version of the west coast offense under Mike Riley than Goff. Yes Goff is better outside the pocket but not inside the pocket that's not pocket presence while that's definitely one of Goff strengths he isn't athletic enough to depend on that like AR does and Matt Ryan stands tall in the pocket Goff doesn't have that same look about him. Not to me anyway.

Mannion has a bigger arm in terms of distance, but not really in terms of accuracy, which is largely due to Goff's superior ball velocity and overall mechanics. Riley runs a pro-style offense, it doesn't rely on short passes to stretch out the defense, he also adapted from spread offenses in terms of really simple play calling (not a lot of verbiage).

Goff's pocket presence was always one of his strengths, here's a good breakdown of him displaying that in college, and there were plenty of times in the NFL you could see him sense the pressure and roll away or avoid a sack to extend a play. Now there were also plenty of times where he was too slow to act, held the ball too long and such, but that's part of being a rookie. Mannion does that as well still.



Mannion throws well from a clean pocket (he was part of a pro style offense, so of course he can throw from the pocket) but he lacks the agility to slide and avoid pressure within the pocket, and if protection breaks down he really struggles, vs Goff has demonstrated the ability to stay alive and complete the pass. A lot of the issues that Mannion have stem from his footwork, he's very heavy footed and that causes issues, including getting the most from his arm, which is why most NFL scouts knocked his arm despite the power he can get. It's also why he doesn't have as much velocity to his throws that Goff does, so Goff's ball gets there faster, which is very important for throwing into tight windows.

Mannion also has the same sized hand as Goff, despite being 2 inches taller, which was a knock but not a big issue to me.

Most of Mannion's issues can be fixed as they come from poor mechanics, footwork and throwing motion specifically. While I'm sure the coaching staff will work on that (because why wouldn't they?) it's not as if they're going to spend extra time when they have a QB on the roster who already has the mechanics they need. That's why McVay said that Goff is the starter, that's why McVay and Goff were watching film together for hours, breaking down plays together, during the interview process. It wasn't McVay and the QB's, it was McVay and Goff.

 

[UKram]

Lol ok or maybe if Goff knew how to keep passes in bound the receivers wouldn't be so surprised when they actually got a decent ball

Or maybe out pass catchers were so used to Case and Sean's throws that they didn't realise a ball could be thrown that hard or accurate

 

[Dxmissile]

Close enough that I won't debate it. But Goff has far more potential in this department.



Wrong.



Painfully wrong.



There's a huge drop-off in pure talent. Goff was better in every phase of the game as a prospect. He'll be better in every phase of the game as a pro.

Not every phase not reading defenses not understanding the playbook knowing where to go with the ball and knowing when to throw the ball away. I have seen Mannion manipulate the pocket in ways I haven't seen Goff and with Mannions strength he is able to absorb those hits inside the pocket while still throwing strikes. Majority of Goff highlights shows him outside the pocket making throws there are very few that shows him standing in the pocket while getting hit making throws. I don't think Goff is that much more better then Mannion. There is no doubt that I could be wrong and that Goff just needs to be comfortable or I could be absolutely right

 

[UKram]

Not every phase not reading defenses not understanding the playbook knowing where to go with the ball and knowing when to throw the ball away. I have seen Mannion manipulate the pocket in ways I haven't seen Goff and with Mannions strength he is able to absorb those hits inside the pocket while still throwing strikes. Majority of Goff highlights shows him outside the pocket making throws there are very few that shows him standing in the pocket while getting hit making throws. I don't think Goff is that much more better then Mannion. There is no doubt that I could be wrong and that Goff just needs to be comfortable or I could be absolutely right

Didn't Sean have like an extra year in the offense as well maybe that accounts for something ? No ?

 

[Dxmissile]

Mannion has a bigger arm in terms of distance, but not really in terms of accuracy, which is largely due to Goff's superior ball velocity and overall mechanics. Riley runs a pro-style offense, it doesn't rely on short passes to stretch out the defense, he also adapted from spread offenses in terms of really simple play calling (not a lot of verbiage).

Goff's pocket presence was always one of his strengths, here's a good breakdown of him displaying that in college, and there were plenty of times in the NFL you could see him sense the pressure and roll away or avoid a sack to extend a play. Now there were also plenty of times where he was too slow to act, held the ball too long and such, but that's part of being a rookie. Mannion does that as well still.



Mannion throws well from a clean pocket (he was part of a pro style offense, so of course he can throw from the pocket) but he lacks the agility to slide and avoid pressure within the pocket, and if protection breaks down he really struggles, vs Goff has demonstrated the ability to stay alive and complete the pass. A lot of the issues that Mannion have stem from his footwork, he's very heavy footed and that causes issues, including getting the most from his arm, which is why most NFL scouts knocked his arm despite the power he can get. It's also why he doesn't have as much velocity to his throws that Goff does, so Goff's ball gets there faster, which is very important for throwing into tight windows.

Mannion also has the same sized hand as Goff, despite being 2 inches taller, which was a knock but not a big issue to me.

Most of Mannion's issues can be fixed as they come from poor mechanics, footwork and throwing motion specifically. While I'm sure the coaching staff will work on that (because why wouldn't they?) it's not as if they're going to spend extra time when they have a QB on the roster who already has the mechanics they need. That's why McVay said that Goff is the starter, that's why McVay and Goff were watching film together for hours, breaking down plays together, during the interview process. It wasn't McVay and the QB's, it was McVay and Goff.

Lol Goff Velocity was 87 and Mannions was 86 lol definitely not superior. I'm not saying that most of the resources aren't going to go to Goff hell I hope they do but Goff isn't going to play in all the preseason games and that's where the evaluations are gonna start. Then they might take a more complete look at Mannion in practice because finally he is going to get practice reps. Mannion is going to surprise

 

[OldSchool]

Lol this is sad that's entirely my point he don't have enough tape but the tape Goff have is crappy as crap so why can't there be a competition whether Goff wins it or not no one should feel like they are safe with a new HC

LOL This is what's sad, we have plenty of tape on Mannion and it doesn't inspire any desire to see him be given equal footing in a competition with Goff to compete for the job.

 

[Dxmissile]

Didn't Sean have like an extra year in the offense as well maybe that accounts for something ? No ?

I never said it didn't if you wasn't trying to be so combative you would see the post where I acknowledge that Goff might just need to be more comfortable to let his talents shine, that's why I have never stated that Goff wasn't any good which it seems like the only thing people say about Mannion

 

[Dxmissile]

LOL This is what's sad, we have plenty of tape on Mannion and it doesn't inspire any desire to see him be given equal footing in a competition with Goff to compete for the job.

What tape what is plenty of tape and by that measure we have plenty of tape to say Goff is a bust.. that's ridiculous

 

[jrry32]

Not every phase not reading defenses not understanding the playbook knowing where to go with the ball and knowing when to throw the ball away.

Goff was better in every phase of the game as a prospect.

Trying to compare Mannion in Year 2 vs. Goff in Year 1 is a disingenuous comparison.

I have seen Mannion manipulate the pocket in ways I haven't seen Goff and with Mannions strength he is able to absorb those hits inside the pocket while still throwing strikes.

Then you need to stop watching the highlights. Goff has far better feet and footwork in the pocket than Mannion. It's not remotely close. Mannion was a heavy-legged spot thrower in college who looked quite poor when forced to move within the pocket. Goff's ability to move within the pocket was considered his strongest attribute as a prospect.

Mannion doesn't come remotely close to Goff in terms of ability to manipulate the pocket. There's no difference of opinion to be had here. It's like saying that Nelson Spruce is faster than Tavon Austin[/QUOTE]