Looks like Joyner got the tag.....

[DaveFan'51]

Anyone see Sammys' tweet? I don't have a good feeling about that situation.

I like Josh Reynolds a lot, more than most I'd say. But expecting him to be as effective as Sammy was last year is a bit optimistic imo. He doesn't have Sammys speed to stretch vertically IN THE SAME WAY. I know he's a vertical threat but not as fast. And the intermediate/red zone success was pretty solid as well.

Kinda ticked we couldn't sign Joyner and tag Sammy. That's what my money was on.

Did Sammy Tweet something!? I did see it! What did he say!!?

 

[Loyal]

You make it sound like his 2017 did not have value to the Rams, even though he was severely underpaid at $690k.. Even for one season, such an underpay does not come free. In addition, the Rams got back a 6th and should get a comp pick.

So how much is one season of a guy you think should be offered about a $16 million franchise tag worth at $690k? Even leaving out the other parts of the trade. Obviously not a second to you, but how high a pick then?

I personally think they did alright. His presence helped Goff develop and gain confidence, which should help the Rams going forward substantially. His performance in 2017 helped them make the playoffs - and I know I would have given up a second to help Goff develop and for the Rams to win the division. Obviously we all always want more, but the Rams' culture changed. Now the Rams and McVay are better prepared to further develop their offense - which includes more fully implementing the TEs into the offense, which would reduce the role of the receivers a bit anyway.

Please direct me to a statement that I made, that ever said that. But the fact is that we rented him for a 2nd round pick, which for me should be a starters position for the the full length of a rookie contract Four years or so? Sammy Watkins only made sense to me for a 2nd rounder if he was signed for a long term deal. Losing him after 16 games would suck so bad, it would seem gravitational.

 

[Loyal]

Its an interesting take...but too negative for me. I prefer to consider it a risk worth taking and knowing the risk ahead of time should quiet the riot when things dont go perfectly.

We have'nt lost Watkins yet and I'm not convinced we will lose him. However, if he does sign elsewhere, I'm going to move on and not dwell on the 2nd round pick.

Winners look ahead, not behind.

*shrugs....a 2nd round pick is a starter to me, for 4-5 years..Not a 16 game rental. Looks like I'm in the minority here about this...

 

[nighttrain]

*shrugs....a 2nd round pick is a starter to me, for 4-5 years..Not a 16 game rental. Looks like I'm in the minority here about this...

NOT ENTIRELY
train

 

[Memento]

Let's hope that we can sign Joyner to a reasonable deal, but if not, I'd rather have him than Watkins.

 

[JackDRams]

*shrugs....a 2nd round pick is a starter to me, for 4-5 years..Not a 16 game rental. Looks like I'm in the minority here about this...

Yes, but if he leaves he’s likely getting a big deal. That would likely get us a third round comp. a second round pick for Watkins for one year, and a third and sixth round pick is pretty damn good.

 

[Merlin]

*shrugs....a 2nd round pick is a starter to me, for 4-5 years..Not a 16 game rental. Looks like I'm in the minority here about this...

Nah, I'm with you on that. Rams right now look like they gambled and lost. They got something out of it in terms of one year of deep threat and a long look at him in the locker room & practice, and will recoup a round 3 next year if they don't sign too aggressively in FA, so it's not like they gambled all that much. But they still look like they lost in the move overall.

Oh and btw at the time I felt it was a good move. It was a gamble worth taking IMO.

 

[Akrasian]

Please direct me to a statement that I made, that ever said that. But the fact is that we rented him for a 2nd round pick, which for me should be a starters position for the the full length of a rookie contract Four years or so? Sammy Watkins only made sense to me for a 2nd rounder if he was signed for a long term deal. Losing him after 16 games would suck so bad, it would seem gravitational.

If losing him after one season would suck so bad, it would seem gravitational, then you certainly are making it sound that any contribution he made in 2017 is slight.

The #23 pick in the 2nd round is slated to get a 4 year contract for just under $1.2 million a year (just shy of $4.8 million). So nearly double the money per year. Most guys drafted in that spot are not impact starters in their first season. Some never become impact starters. Some end up worthless. There is greater risk for picks than for veterans. That reduces the value of the pick imo. Especially the chance of totally missing on the pick - and every team, every coach, has missed at times. What the Rams got from Watkins is likely substantially more than they could have expected from a rookie WR. It was definitely more than they got from their 2nd rounder (drafted earlier than #23) in 2017, in fact.

So they traded a future #2 for help they strongly needed in 2017, which worked out well enough that they won their division - which to me is already proof that they did well in the trade - or do you think they would have won the division without Watkins? And if they would have won without Watkins, why be upset if he's not back for 2018?

The Rams will get a comp pick for him, too, of course, which lessens the net cost of the draft pick traded. Pick #23 is worth about 350 on most draft charts - the last comp pick in the third round moves the value of the Rams' pick traded to a high third. Do you think winning the division and helping Goff overcome his disastrous 2016 is worth a high 3rd? I do.

The Rams are in a lot better shape in terms of Goff developing, in terms of Kupp developing, and in terms of playoff experience partially thanks to the Watkins trade. I'm not going to complain that it didn't work out even better.

 

[Kevin]

LOL! The discussion about Watkins is all over the map. Some people think his contribution to the Rams makes him not worth re-signing, others want him back but think he will be too expensive to re-sign. He can't be both!

 

[DaveFan'51]

Two 1st round picks would soften the Loss!!

 

[Loyal]

If losing him after one season would suck so bad, it would seem gravitational, then you certainly are making it sound that any contribution he made in 2017 is slight.

The #23 pick in the 2nd round is slated to get a 4 year contract for just under $1.2 million a year (just shy of $4.8 million). So nearly double the money per year. Most guys drafted in that spot are not impact starters in their first season. Some never become impact starters. Some end up worthless. There is greater risk for picks than for veterans. That reduces the value of the pick imo. Especially the chance of totally missing on the pick - and every team, every coach, has missed at times. What the Rams got from Watkins is likely substantially more than they could have expected from a rookie WR. It was definitely more than they got from their 2nd rounder (drafted earlier than #23) in 2017, in fact.

So they traded a future #2 for help they strongly needed in 2017, which worked out well enough that they won their division - which to me is already proof that they did well in the trade - or do you think they would have won the division without Watkins? And if they would have won without Watkins, why be upset if he's not back for 2018?

The Rams will get a comp pick for him, too, of course, which lessens the net cost of the draft pick traded. Pick #23 is worth about 350 on most draft charts - the last comp pick in the third round moves the value of the Rams' pick traded to a high third. Do you think winning the division and helping Goff overcome his disastrous 2016 is worth a high 3rd? I do.

The Rams are in a lot better shape in terms of Goff developing, in terms of Kupp developing, and in terms of playoff experience partially thanks to the Watkins trade. I'm not going to complain that it didn't work out even better.

It sucks because the widespread belief when we got Watkins, wasn't for a short sighted, 16 game rental...because SURELY Snead would have worked this out?....guess not.
It's simple. 16 games as a starter, doesn't equal 64 games as a potential 2nd round starter. I'm not a fan of sacrificing the long term future for a flash in the pan, moment...but that's just me

 

[Riverumbbq]

OK Cleveland Browns, have at him.

 

[So Ram]

Two 1st round picks would soften the Loss!!

Good luck with that .lol — They can also negotiate with a team as well for comp value .

 

[WestCoastRam]

You miss 100% of the Sammy Watkins you don't trade for.

(PS. Anyone who wants to overpay Watkins just because we gave up a 2nd for him, see me later for some amazing Bitcoin deals.)

 

[Akrasian]

It sucks because the widespread belief when we got Watkins, wasn't for a short sighted, 16 game rental...because SURELY Snead would have worked this out?....guess not.
It's simple. 16 games as a starter, doesn't equal 64 games as a potential 2nd round starter. I'm not a fan of sacrificing the long term future for a flash in the pan, moment...but that's just me

They knew - we all knew - that Watkins had not been extended a 5th year, so would be a free agent. What he was, was a veteran impact type receiver to help improve the offense from the worst in the NFL, and someone who would help Goff develop. In order to get that, they traded a future 2nd, and a CB who had injury history and did not fit the new defensive scheme. What they got was one year of Watkins before free agency (and there was zero reason to think that he wouldn't go for max dollars in free agency), a 6th round pick, and a greater likelihood of getting a high comp pick than Gaines would have given them, what with him not fitting the defense and quite probably not starting.

64 games as a starter from the second round pick was likely not going to happen. At least that's highly optimistic. And what are the chances of them getting 4 years of quality production from the comp pick?

In the end, I think the immediate help in a position of strong need gained them a lot for 2017, AND helped Goff develop, which should help the Rams' long term future more than the typical late 2nd round pick would.

 

[Billy Baroo]

*shrugs....a 2nd round pick is a starter to me, for 4-5 years..Not a 16 game rental. Looks like I'm in the minority here about this...

Bust rate in second round is about 40%. There are no guarantees. I’m sure Rams thought they’d be signing Sammy long-term or at least franchise him when they made the trade. Alas, he underwhelmed to an extent and they have more productive players they need to keep in the fold. Which is a good thing.

 

[Tron]

I'd take Allen Robinson in a heart beat over Watkins even if we have to pay him a few mil more. I say let Watkins walk and sign Robinson to a nice, short incentive based prove it deal with a decent guarantee because of the acl tear, like what Alshon Jeffery had before he signed long term. Our 2nd round pick is gone regardless. This is about improving the team, not over paying because of draft capital given up in the past.

 

[WestCoastRam]

Look, I don't blame us not signing Sammy on the front office. I blame Sammy. I blame him for not giving us better production where we'd be much more likely to offer more than a bridge 1-2 year contract. I blame Sammy for not succeeding more than he did. He gave us a solid performance. He did not give us a multiyear contract at 15 mil a year performance.

 

[WestCoastRam]

Bust rate in second round is about 40%. There are no guarantees. I’m sure Rams thought they’d be signing Sammy long-term or at least franchise him when they made the trade. Alas, he underwhelmed to an extent and they have more productive players they need to keep in the fold. Which is a good thing.

This.