Bradford vs Foles

[RamsesIII]

As far as I can tell, everybody should be happy with the trade.

 

[HometownBoy]

And every conversation between an agent and a team is reported.

Never did I say Foles is superior to Bradford. But he does somethings better than Bradford. But I will say this, I've seen almost every Ram"s games since the 60's, but somehow I missed the year Bradford went to the Pro Bowl......

Bradford's gone and he's not coming back. He's just a another player on another team.

No, but a lot of things are heavily documented, like contract negotiations. That much is true, saying one completely unrelated extreme isn't going to bolster your point anymore than if I responded with 'you're right, no contract negotiations are ever documented ever, nobody knows ever except the two people allowed.'

Yes he does, Bradford also does things better than Foles, but what matters is if what their best is works within a system. Again, another entirely unrelated extreme that doesn't really mean anything, when did I ever say Bradford was a Pro Bowler? Heck, the post you quoted even said that Bradford didn't have success here so it's even more out of left field.

That's true, and nobody's arguing that. What I am saying is that just saying the Rams like and have faith in what they say isn't glowing praise, because they did the same for Bradford. At no point did it ever come down to if Bradford is the greetest or not, simply that he got a similar treatment and his investment wasn't a good one, so the Rams going all in isn't an indicator of anything except the Rams are going all in on Foles.

 

[CGI_Ram]

I expect we'll see more interceptions and "bad throws" with Foles compared to what we saw from Sam Bradford.

Bradford's accuracy is elite and underestimated in most parts. His decision making was very good too, albeit conservative. Foles might frustrate some people by comparison.

Then again, our last exposure at QB was Shawn Hill and Austin Davis.

Imagine going into the coming offseason having to decide to give big money to Sam. When he plays he'll earn it. But... To gamble on his health isn't easy right now.

 

[shovelpass]

I would like to first start off by saying that I'm not concerned at all by a Foles "struggling" in camp, even Rodgers throws INT's in training camp. Also from what I've seen and read I wouldn't exactly call it struggling. I've seen Keenum be described as Tebow-eske twice, that is struggling.
I am not a coach/trainer/coordinator/etc, I cannot judge arm talent; but for the sake of the argument Bradford is probably better in that respect. But that doesn't make him the better Qb, or that he will have more success. Bradford was the epitome of what the Rams were the past few years, "All the potential in the world, but little production to show for it". Foles has production, he wins games, he's been to the playoffs. I think Foles can be a player like Flacco, or Eli, where they might not put up big numbers in the regular season, but they will get there teams to the postseason and suddenly play lights out. Eli has more rings than two objectively better Qbs, Rodgers and Peyton.
Lastly there is leadership. Bradford was doomed with a poor supporting cast. But isn't that what a great QB does, make the people around him better. When he was drafted, Bradford was expected to be the next Peyton Manning. Peyton has been know for coaching up his offense, Sam never did that. Foles has shown that already in his short time being here.

 

[Ram_Rally]

He lead us to two comebacks on the 49ers and was absolutely on fire in our win against the Cardinals. Looked really good in Jacksonville. Put up 310 on washington with 3 TDs. We lost, but he was basically all our offense in Miami in 2012. That's just a few.

Lets also not forget the guy won rookie of the year. I get we're not satisfied with him and that's why we moved on, but saying he never put anything on the field isn't the truth.

If you watched those niner games you'd remember that he didn't lead us back. Janoris Jenkins did. And for every few games that you can pick where Bradford flashed brilliance, I can give you an entire season of foles doing the same. At least he's proven that he can win at this level. Also, Bradford won rookie of the year with mike Williams as the runner up. It was pretty much no contest. I see where you're coming from, but if your argument is "well remember that one game, and that one series, and that one preseason", then that doesn't hit home for me. Despite always wing hurt, he played 2 full seasons with us and almost half of another and never looked that great. And for the record, I think Bradford will probably break out with Philly. I also won't be shocked if he doesn't

 

[blue4]

Lastly there is leadership. Bradford was doomed with a poor supporting cast. But isn't that what a great QB does, make the people around him better. When he was drafted, Bradford was expected to be the next Peyton Manning. Peyton has been know for coaching up his offense, Sam never did that. Foles has shown that already in his short time being here.

There is nothing being said right now about Foles in camp that wasn't once said about Bradford in camp. We should take these glowing reports with a grain of salt. It's just the way things are at this stage of the season.


We have no idea what Sam did or did not do with the offense. I remember him working with the WRs in the off season and paying for their hotel rooms. I remember players and coaches saying he was the first in the building and the last out. I remember Chris Long always thinking highly of him in the locker room. And I do remember him traveling with the team when he got hurt when many players would have not. These "leadership" myths date all the way back past Bradford to Bulger. At a certain point, grown men have to play on the field without a pep talk every down from the QB. For all the coverage today's game gives, we still have no idea what's being said in locker rooms or on the sidelines. Bradford could be commanding his forces like Patton and Foles could be talking about Xbox Call of Duty, or vice versa, for all we really know. We only have facial expressions and coachspeak to go on, so I think we all tend to see what we want to see on terms of judging leadership. Myself, I never liked the huddle cheerleaders. I'm trying to concentrate on my assignments and get the play call and someone won't shut up. I don't need a pick me up, I need you to do your job. Others probably see leadership differently. JMO.

 

[-X-]

But isn't that what a great QB does, make the people around him better.

Not really. I can't think of a single QB who turned a Greg Salas or Mardy Gilyard into a DeSean Jackson. It's a simple enough hypothesis to test. What have Brandon Gibson, Austin Pettis, Mardy Gilyard, Greg Salas, Danny Amendola, Keenan Burton, Danario Alexander, Daniel Fells, Mike Hoomanawanui or Mike Sims-Walker done since leaving the Rams? Lotta different QBs out there who haven't made them any better.

I actually think the opposite is just as valid. Good/great receivers can make a QB better. Where is Daunte Culpepper without Moss? Why is Brady's best season with the same guy? What happened to Bulger without Bruce and Holt? Can't tell me that Carr or Schaub were the reasons Andre Johnson is a beast. 6+ QBs have thrown at Megatron and he still keeps getting 1000 yards. Steve Young was balls when he was with Tampa, and before he got with Rice/Taylor.

The truly seasoned and elite QBs can make more out of less. There's no denying that. But it's kinda futile to get into the whole chicken/egg thing with these types of discussions. He's gone and we'll see if a different scheme, cast, and team will make him any better.

 

[ReddingRam]

Ya know ... these early camp reports that have come in, don't sound much different than when Sam was playing here. I'm not going to freak out yet ..... let it build

 

[LesBaker]

If your best receiver the WHOLE time you're a QB is Danny Amendola, and Amendola goes on to do absolutely nothing with a far superior QB (I know he was injured, but when is he not), then what does that say about your offense? I'm just glad Foles is stepping into a far better wide receiving corps than Bradford ever had. If the line holds up, he should have a really good year.

I agree he didn't have premium talent around him. But that in and of itself doesn't make him into the things people want to make him into.

Bad receivers don't automatically make him a good QB. He and the WR's could have been mediocre, which has been my position.

 

[Moostache]

I'm sorry guys, but Bradford has not been the same QB that showed ALL of his potential on the field since before the shoulder injury at OU.

His rookie year was check down central and he was shielded from much of the decision making by design. The Rams tried to bring him along slow and it was the right decision at the time. No one then knew he would be High Ankle Sprain (playing though mainly useless), followed by ACL #1 and then ACL #2 in the next 3 seasons.

Bradford has all the tools and when he DID put it all together (that Sophomore/Heisman season at OU) it is impressive as hell. But the flipside is and always will be his health. The guy is either fragile or the most snake-bit player in a generation. Until a greater sample size of healthy play can be pointed to, he is not durable enough for the NFL.

Foles' ball is nice out of his hand - seems like it has a nice tight spiral and is very catchable; but seems to be a little less accurate than you'd like to have. He is going to have to focus hard on maintaining proper mechanics or bad things will follow. However, the idea in this thread I saw that said other QBs were not struggling is not what it looked like to me on Friday. I may be misinterpreting the comment, and if so I am sorry.

Davis is not good enough, not big enough and lacks arm strength to be a real solution at QB. He is Jack Kemp reincarnated...
Keenum is as small as Davis, slightly bigger arm and still too small. Short QBs with limited mobility are at a huge disadvantage..they either need to be Wilson (very mobile and elusive) or Brees (exceptional pocket presence and movement inside the pocket) and neither Keenum nor Davis is either of those things.

Mannion on the other hand looks the part. The question with him is going to be consistency and whether or not he gets time to watch and learn or if an injury ends up throwing him to the wolves sooner. I would LOVE if he could be 3rd string / emergency QB this season and learn the NFL game in the process, but I have very little faith in Keenum and Davis to be good enough to allow this...though I suspect Fisher's plan is to have the Keenum/Davis winner serve as the backup going into the season.

 

[LesBaker]

He's extremely accurate. He's just not healthy often enough. Hope he stays healthy this year for them but I feel safer with Foles for some reason.

He's nowhere NEAR extremely accurate, in fact he is below average. He's never been accurate in the NFL.

Here is a link to his game logs...... http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradSa00/gamelog/

60% is pretty much average in the NFL. If you are below that mark that's not good.

As you can see Bradford played in 49 games. He hit 60% or higher just 21 times. He was below 50%, which is crap, 9 times which is about one out of 5 games. That's terrible. His numbers look even worse when you consider that he was throwing short as often as he was. I don't think Bradford ever broke the top 15 in completion %, and so he isn't extremely accurate, he's mediocre.

 

[LesBaker]

I'm talking regular season though.

LOL he was like 4-11 or something and looked BAD in that Browns game. Anyone hanging their hat on that is in for a long season. He made a couple of nice throws, against a vanilla defense on a bad team and he didn't even get out of the first quarter! I didn't understand people saying he was looking good that day, he looked the same.

 

[-X-]

I agree he didn't have premium talent around him. But that in and of itself doesn't make him into the things people want to make him into.

Bad receivers don't automatically make him a good QB. He and the WR's could have been mediocre, which has been my position.

Well, I never made that leap of logic either. That the absence of supporting talent made him anything other than a player in the same circumstance. I do, however maintain that he has all the physical and mental tools to be a very good QB. But you know, sometimes that's just not enough. Being in the right place at the right time can make all the difference in the world. If Steve Young remained a Buccaneer for his whole career, chances are that career would have been pretty short. Same with Kurt Warner. If he never stepped into the right situation with the Rams, he may have been bounced out of the league before the year 2000. They're both great QBs even if it happened that they could never prove it. It just helped immensely that they finally landed in the right situations.

 

[RamWoodie]

I always thought Bradford has all the tools to be very good to great. I was (and still am) a fan of the guy.

I wish he was still here...but I'm more than willing to give Foles his shot..and the fact he's got an extension tells me the staff thinks he's the answer...we'll see.

 

[Rynie]

Keep in mind that he's learning a new system(I assume), so there's going to be some growing pains. I think Foles > Bradford, but that's just me. I guess because Bradford has never beat us. Foles has looked pretty good against us. Next week, fellas! Pre-season begineth!!

 

[LesBaker]

Well, I never made that leap of logic either. That the absence of supporting talent made him anything other than a player in the same circumstance. I do, however maintain that he has all the physical and mental tools to be a very good QB. But you know, sometimes that's just not enough. Being in the right place at the right time can make all the difference in the world. If Steve Young remained a Buccaneer for his whole career, chances are that career would have been pretty short. Same with Kurt Warner. If he never stepped into the right situation with the Rams, he may have been bounced out of the league before the year 2000. They're both great QBs even if it happened that they could never prove it. It just helped immensely that they finally landed in the right situations.

You're right you've never made that leap, I should have been clearer. But many people have that's for sure.

I wish him well, I just don't understand the things so many posters attribute to Bradford that simply aren't real. It's baffling.

 

[fearsomefour]

It is kinda mind boggling. I'm sure a lot of other athletes in the NFL could have if they would have been put the QB position from the beginning. Or players in other sports. Maybe the best QB ever was an accountant in Des Moines who never touched a ball.

It takes three simple things.
Physical talent.
Brains
And the abilities to make the right decisions instantaneously repeatedly while being assaulted by very large men

I know of a guy who played in the same travel ball organization as my son, although he was several years ahead of my son.
After high school he had no intention of playing college baseball. He wanted a new glove to "play catch with"....his mother bribed him. She told him she would buy the glove if he at least tried college baseball. He went to a good baseball Junior College and he developed as a player with good coaching. Long story short he was draft the next and is now a starting pitcher for the Cleveland Indians....coming very close to a perfect game this season.
It makes me wonder how many guys never give themselves a shot because growing up they were around coaches etc that never saw their total potential. This guy had no offers out of high school and was not spoken to by his high school coaches etc about playing after high school.

 

[Mojo Ram]

Hey Mojo, I'm thinking it will be closer to 21 TD's 15 INT's 3400 yds and praying for 9 wins.

I'm looking forward to good play from Foles but I think he'll struggle a bit learning the new system and with the oline jelling.

I'd take those numbers too as long as those picks weren't of the Kellen Clemens/Austin Davis/Shaun Hill variety, and yeah, 9 wins would be cause for celebration around here. If we're seriously thinking playoffs though we'll need at least 10 wins.

 

[Mojo Ram]

There's an old saying among musicians. Something to the effect of....
Put a bad drummer behind a great band and it sounds like a bad band. Put a great drummer behind a bad band and it sounds like a decent band.

IMO the same could be said for NFL QB's.

 

[Rynie]

There's an old saying among musicians. Something to the effect of....
Put a bad drummer behind a great band and it sounds like a bad band. Put a great drummer behind a bad band and it sounds like a decent band.

IMO the same could be said for NFL QB's.

You just described Romo's entire career. Great drummer, bad band.