Bradford vs Foles

[WestCoastRam]

Sam was not the best leader. It does not make him the worst QB of all time. Gawd, I hope that level of nuance doesn't escape anyone.

 

[RaminExile]

Sam was not the best leader. It does not make him the worst QB of all time. Gawd, I hope that level of nuance doesn't escape anyone.

Exactly. I just get the feeling its not his natural personality to be a vocal leader. What always impressed me though was that he tried to lead in his own way - by setting an example through hard work and accountability. You never saw an interview with him where he didn't take 100% accountability for what happened on a field - even when it wasn't actually his fault. One game I remember particularly was at Miami a couple of years ago. On the last drive Bradford got sacked holding onto the ball and the game ended. They asked him afterwards "What happened on that last drive Sam?" and he started going "Well they were playing a lot of 2 man under" and then realized half way through that he was implying that none of his receivers could get open which was an implied criticism of them so stopped and just went "Its on me. I've got to find a way to get the ball out", despite being visibly frustrated that his receivers couldn't get open.

Anyway, I for one hope he stays healthy. If he does he'll show everyone what talent he's got. It'd be good for football to have another elite QB playing and I'd love to watch him play like he can. A shame it won't be with the Rams but we're moving in our own direction now.

 

[blue4]

I simply don't understand why more vocal=better leader. And I dont understand why we just assume Sam didn't say anything to his team while the the media were not present.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

So it seems like Nick has been struggling a little thus far from what I've read in training camp. I think I can speak for everyone when I say I'm not too concerned yet. He's going up against one of the best defenses everyday and the best Dine in the league. My question is, do you see(those of you who've attended camp) a big talent difference between Foles and Bradford? I know Sammy was always a stud in practice, but can you tell me the differences between them?

Foles is not nearly as accurate as Bradford can be, but that is the only place I see a big disparity. I may get blasted for it here because it was always taboo to say anything negative about Bradford but I always noticed that he was late on a lot of crossing patterns. He often threw behind receivers. He rarely forced throws into tight windows. He checked down a lot. Those things may have been the coaching or maybe they were part him too.

When it comes to demeanor Sam was not a vocal leader. I think players respond better to a more vocal leader and they seem to be in charge more. I think Foles will be much better in that respect. Watching Foles highlights it was remarkable that he only had 2 interceptions two seasons ago because he takes chances throwing into tight windows. That part of him is a bit scary. Again that could have been coaching to some degree. Martz preferred to take the chances. We will see with Fisher.

Training camp is never worth getting too excited about. Sam always looked like an All-Pro in training camp. He was not at the same level in games where receivers are covered and guys were sacking the crap out of him. If the rest of the team plays well and Foles is protected he should be just fine.

Now for a different comparison, I just watched the last game against Seattle from last season. Hill was terrible. He lost that game for them IMO. Foles is better than Hill IMO and it isn't close. So there is an upgrade there and the team will benefit from it.

 

[LesBaker]

His stats don't say he's accurate, but games aren't played on stat sheets either. PFF did a study called 'adjusted accuracy' for all of the QBs in the league and it was quite revealing. It had Bradford ranked right up there with the best of them. I've seen enough games on rewind to know that accuracy isn't a problem with Bradford. But if you think it is, then Foles isn't going to make you very happy.

“Well, with Bradford, the biggest concern I have, and the thing that concerned me with some players that I got burned on, is the injury factor. I remember I traded for [former University of Miami running back] Alonzo Highsmith, because I had great memories, and I did it against my doctor’s recommendations, and he wasn’t the same. So that’s my biggest concern, the health. I love Bradford, but is he gonna be on the field? But if he plays, I like him. Foles, his accuracy was a question. Bradford’s better at that, and it’s not even a question if he’s healthy. I think Chip looked at Foles as not his guy.”

-- Jimmy Johnson

And here's his accuracy percentage from intermediate range in 2012 compared to Brady.
If we're using stats to determine what kind of a QB a guy is, then Brady can't hold Bradford's jock. lol.

BRADFORD

BRADY

One "split" from one season?

All it takes is a look through the game logs to see what I am talking about.

 

[-X-]

One "split" from one season?

All it takes is a look through the game logs to see what I am talking about.

And all I was saying was stats don't tell the whole story. Seriously, very few people in the nat'l media, if any, think Bradford is inaccurate. That's just not something you typically hear being associated with him.

 

[dieterbrock]

When a team wins, the QB is a leader whether vocal or not. I cant recall the QB of a losing team ever considered a leader of men.
As for Sam, he's not our QB any more and I dont understand the fascination with him.
I hope he plays 8 games and poorly at that. Why? Its the RGIII factor. The worse Philly record, the higher that 2nd round pick is. For us

 

[-X-]

As for Sam, he's not our QB any more and I dont understand the fascination with him.

I'm not aware of anyone who's fascinated with him.
Its just a discussion that some people wanna have.
Its not a big deal.

 

[Rmfnlt]

When a team wins, the QB is a leader whether vocal or not.

Good point.

If the team loses consistently, no amount of cheerleading is going to fix that IMO.

I could see where it might even become a negative.... becomes white noise after a while if wins don't start coming.

 

[MrMotes]

When a team wins, the QB is a leader whether vocal or not. I cant recall the QB of a losing team ever considered a leader of men.
As for Sam, he's not our QB any more and I dont understand the fascination with him.
I hope he plays 8 games and poorly at that. Why? Its the RGIII factor. The worse Philly record, the higher that 2nd round pick is. For us

Agreed on all counts, except i like following ex Rams.

I'm not even sure leadership is a real thing. People follow winners...

 

[fearsomefour]

And all I was saying was stats don't tell the whole story. Seriously, very few people in the nat'l media, if any, think Bradford is inaccurate. That's just not something you typically hear being associated with him.

Being accurate has a lot more to it than completion percentage.
Throwing on time. Throwing into windows. Being able to read and beat a coverage/blitz and find secondary receivers. All of these things factor greatly in accuracy. Shaun Hill threw a TD pass last year, forget against whom, where the announcer talked about Hill "throwing the receiver open". That was a great comment. Any QB on an NFL roster (except Davis vs the Whiners in SF) can hit receivers running open down the field. Accuracy comes down to being able to throw to covered receivers and get completions or finding windows in zones and getting the ball there on time.
My concern with Foles is his seemingly slow progressions and ability to find secondary guys. A moment or two late to the #3 guy is pic city.
There was a Cardinal/Texans game when Warner was with the Cardinals. This was the year before the team turned it around. He started the game 10 for 10 before leaving with a knee injury. He had virtually no help in the running game, receivers (outside Fitz) or Oline. It was one of the better games I had seen him play. He was surgical in all aspects of accuracy. Reading the D. Adjusting. Finding the open guy. Throwing into windows on time. Thing of beauty.

 

[Robocop]

is anyone here who's spoken about Sam's leadership an actual Rams player or staff that's been inside that locker room during Sam's tenure here? if not then none of us have enough information to determine how much of or what kind of leader Bradford was in that locker room. period.

 

[So Ram]

I don't think we'll gave a good look at Foles till week 1. He doesn't seem to be out there trying to prove himself right now. He knows he doesn't have to be perfect in practice and may be more willing to take risks in practice and preseason games.

Dude,I'm just going to call BS.Nick Foles is not afraid.He has played in enough games to know that.The Rams signing of Foles shows how confident they are in him.
---Bradford vs Foles ??
I think The Rams made out in the trade.Yes first game will be huge.

 

[Stranger]

Dude,I'm just going to call BS.Nick Foles is not afraid.He has played in enough games to know that.The Rams signing of Foles shows how confident they are in him.
---Bradford vs Foles ??
I think The Rams made out in the trade.Yes first game will be huge.

Man, I really hope you are right.

 

[LesBaker]

Being accurate has a lot more to it than completion percentage.
Throwing on time. Throwing into windows. Being able to read and beat a coverage/blitz and find secondary receivers. All of these things factor greatly in accuracy. Shaun Hill threw a TD pass last year, forget against whom, where the announcer talked about Hill "throwing the receiver open". That was a great comment. Any QB on an NFL roster (except Davis vs the Whiners in SF) can hit receivers running open down the field. Accuracy comes down to being able to throw to covered receivers and get completions or finding windows in zones and getting the ball there on time.
My concern with Foles is his seemingly slow progressions and ability to find secondary guys. A moment or two late to the #3 guy is pic city.
There was a Cardinal/Texans game when Warner was with the Cardinals. This was the year before the team turned it around. He started the game 10 for 10 before leaving with a knee injury. He had virtually no help in the running game, receivers (outside Fitz) or Oline. It was one of the better games I had seen him play. He was surgical in all aspects of accuracy. Reading the D. Adjusting. Finding the open guy. Throwing into windows on time. Thing of beauty.

I watched that game and Warner was unconscious. It was one hell of a ten pass performance!!! He had several games prior to that and people who were watching knew "he's still Warner".

 

[jjab360]

I simply don't understand why more vocal=better leader. And I dont understand why we just assume Sam didn't say anything to his team while the the media were not present.

You don't understand why better/more communication with your teammates would equal being a better leader? Seriously?

 

[Stranger]

I simply don't understand why more vocal=better leader.

Please see Conversation Theory, which was developed and mathematically proven last-century by Gordon Pask.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversation_theory

 

[blue4]

You don't understand why better/more communication with your teammates would equal being a better leader? Seriously?

You don't understand that you don't have to play cheerleader and yap constantly to communicate with your teammates? Seriously?

Did you think I was talking about being a mute?

 

[blue4]

Please see Conversation Theory, which was developed and mathematically proven last-century by Gordon Pask.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversation_theory

Umm...I have to admit that after 40 years of playing sports, military, and work place experience I understand that there are many ways to be an effective leader. You don't need to be either silent or vocal.

The fact is that none of us have enough inside info about what goes on in the huddle or in Rams Park to know what's TRULY going on. What we have is plenty of player and coaches compliments on both Bradford and Foles leadership during their duration here. So to me, it sounds like they've both done an effective job at being a leader, but with different styles. I don't see why that's wrong, except that I guess the fans need to see it on tv apparently.

 

[LazyWinker]

Dude,I'm just going to call BS.Nick Foles is not afraid.He has played in enough games to know that.The Rams signing of Foles shows how confident they are in him.
---Bradford vs Foles ??
I think The Rams made out in the trade.Yes first game will be huge.

That was pretty much the point I was trying to make. I worded it poorly