Which 2025 draftee would you trade up for, if any? Why or why not?

[Elmgrovegnome]

Oh wow. So the word "talented" in my post is ignored. Gotcha.

I’ve read all of your comments and that is how it comes across. You seem to be saying that any Tight end in this draft, including a projected seventh round pick could do the same thing, if they played in Penn Stare’s offense.

You keep making the case that Warren’s success was due to Andy Kotelnicki. If that’s the case then Fanin’s success was due to his OC. Travis Kelce’s success is due to Andy Reid.

So, how many top tight ends has Andy Kotelnicki produced in his time as an offensive coordinator? If it’s so easy for tight ends to succeed under him then he must have put a lot of them in the NFL.

 

[Memphis Ram]

I’ve read all of your comments and that is how it comes across. You seem to be saying that any Tight end in this draft, including a projected seventh round pick could do the same thing, if they played in Penn Stare’s offense.

You keep making the case that Warren’s success was due to Andy Kotelnicki. If that’s the case then Fanin’s success was due to his OC. Travis Kelce’s success is due to Andy Reid.

So, how many top tight ends has Andy Kotelnicki produced in his time as an offensive coordinator? If it’s so easy for tight ends to succeed under him then he must have put a lot of them in the NFL.

No. No. No.

I'm not saying that ANY TE could match what Warren did at Penn State this past season. Or even Fannin Jr. at Bowling Green. I'm just saying that there are other talented TEs in this draft class who if were playing under the same circumstances could have some success, too.

But my overall point is and has been that Warren isn't the only talented TE in one of the NFL DEEPEST TE draft classes that I can recall thus trading up for him shouldn't even be considered because I don't believe that it would be that significant a difference in the overall impact he would provide vs. some of the other talented TEs in this draft class.

ie. He could even be the next Brock Bowers. But why trade extra draft capital to move up for him when I can stay put and land perhaps the next Trey McBride or Mark Andrews later in the draft and use that extra draft capital elsewhere?

 

[JonRam99]

to the OP... it really depends on how far up we trade. I wouldn't trade up any higher than #20 for anyone.
But, at #20... a number of difference makers could fall, especially if there's a run on the QB's since there's just so many QB needy teams right now. Man I'm so glad we're NOT among them.
- Emmanwori. He'd be killer at the star position, though Lake currently fills that role.
- Hampton. If he makes it to #20, get him. Paired next to Kyren (or his mini-me Corum), he would boost this team's scoring. Once ahead, we grind 'em down w/ Kyren. The only other RB I'm hoping we get is Tuten, but I don't know if he lasts until #90, I've seen mocks where he doesn't. Either one would have a huge impact on O, but both would take a trade-up of some type.
- Campbell. Clearly the best LB in this draft, and paired w/ Speights would turbo charge the D. ILB is by far the weakest link on this team.

Honestly, though, I'm hoping we don't trade up for anyone & just let the BPA's come to us.

 

[dang]

to the OP... it really depends on how far up we trade. I wouldn't trade up any higher than #20 for anyone.
But, at #20... a number of difference makers could fall, especially if there's a run on the QB's since there's just so many QB needy teams right now. Man I'm so glad we're NOT among them.
- Emmanwori. He'd be killer at the star position, though Lake currently fills that role.
- Hampton. If he makes it to #20, get him. Paired next to Kyren (or his mini-me Corum), he would boost this team's scoring. Once ahead, we grind 'em down w/ Kyren. The only other RB I'm hoping we get is Tuten, but I don't know if he lasts until #90, I've seen mocks where he doesn't. Either one would have a huge impact on O, but both would take a trade-up of some type.
- Campbell. Clearly the best LB in this draft, and paired w/ Speights would turbo charge the D. ILB is by far the weakest link on this team.

Honestly, though, I'm hoping we don't trade up for anyone & just let the BPA's come to us.

I’m gonna keep pushing for Emmanwori. I feel he can play SS/NB/ILB with his size and toughness. And Lake and Curl FAs next year.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

No. No. No.

I'm not saying that ANY TE could match what Warren did at Penn State this past season. Or even Fannin Jr. at Bowling Green. I'm just saying that there are other talented TEs in this draft class who if were playing under the same circumstances could have some success, too.

But my overall point is and has been that Warren isn't the only talented TE in one of the NFL DEEPEST TE draft classes that I can recall thus trading up for him shouldn't even be considered because I don't believe that it would be that significant a difference in the overall impact he would provide vs. some of the other talented TEs in this draft class.

ie. He could even be the next Brock Bowers. But why trade extra draft capital to move up for him when I can stay put and land perhaps the next Trey McBride or Mark Andrews later in the draft and use that extra draft capital elsewhere?

I think he’s more talented than any of the in line tight ends in this draft and it’s not really close.

But, again, trading up depends on circumstances. If McVay and Snead think he greatly improves the offense, and they don’t have pressing needs, then do it. In other words, if they felt like he could have Kelce like impact, then it’s worth it. If they don’t, then it’s not.

With the current state of the defense another weapon on offense to go along with Adams and Puka would be crazy. I think TE is a need because of Higbee’s age, injury and contract. Parkinson, and Allen are below average tight ends.

 

[Memphis Ram]

I think he’s more talented than any of the in line tight ends in this draft and it’s not really close.

But, again, trading up depends on circumstances. If McVay and Snead think he greatly improves the offense, and they don’t have pressing needs, then do it. In other words, if they felt like he could have Kelce like impact, then it’s worth it. If they don’t, then it’s not.

With the current state of the defense another weapon on offense to go along with Adams and Puka would be crazy. I think TE is a need because of Higbee’s age, injury and contract. Parkinson, and Allen are below average tight ends.

Yes. Everything hinges on what McVay and Snead thinks and TE is considered a need.

But even if I agree with you on Warren I simply can't see how even a great TE would have that much more significant of an overall impact on this offense than a very good or even a good TE. It's just the nature of the position. Feed a good one enough targets and then we might be calling him great.

That's might be one of the reasons TE isn't considered a premium position, is down there next to RBs on the pay scale, and aren't selected in the 1st round that often.

 

[JonRam99]

Yes. Everything hinges on what McVay and Snead thinks and TE is considered a need.

But even if I agree with you on Warren I simply can't see how even a great TE would have that much more significant of an overall impact on this offense than a very good or even a good TE. It's just the nature of the position. Feed a good one enough targets and then we might be calling him great.

That's might be one of the reasons TE isn't considered a premium position, is down there next to RBs on the pay scale, and aren't selected in the 1st round that often.

I tend to agree. Especially since a "good" TE can be found in rd 3 / 4 this year, that could have just as much "net impact" as Warren. Plus we keep a pick to keep addressing needs.
That's why I'm thinking we just let the BPA's fall to us, and if anything try to trade down into the 2nd round, unless a BPA stud falls in our laps due to multiple QB picks this year. An OT, CB, WR, or RB would be great values for this team.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I tend to agree. Especially since a "good" TE can be found in rd 3 / 4 this year, that could have just as much "net impact" as Warren. Plus we keep a pick to keep addressing needs.
That's why I'm thinking we just let the BPA's fall to us, and if anything try to trade down into the 2nd round, unless a BPA stud falls in our laps due to multiple QB picks this year. An OT, CB, WR, or RB would be great values for this team.

I’m not saying it’s going to happen. I’m saying if they see him as a unique weapon that changes the offense then they should consider it.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Yes. Everything hinges on what McVay and Snead thinks and TE is considered a need.

But even if I agree with you on Warren I simply can't see how even a great TE would have that much more significant of an overall impact on this offense than a very good or even a good TE. It's just the nature of the position. Feed a good one enough targets and then we might be calling him great.

That's might be one of the reasons TE isn't considered a premium position, is down there next to RBs on the pay scale, and aren't selected in the 1st round that often.

I think you are putting Warren into a box. Was Kupp just a slot receiver?

Warren did much more than the regular tight end position is asked to do. To the right coach he’s more than just a tight end.

 

[JonRam99]

I think you are putting Warren into a box. Was Kupp just a slot receiver?

Warren did much more than the regular tight end position is asked to do. To the right coach he’s more than just a tight end.

True. But to Memphis' point, he'd be taking snaps from Puka & Adams. With Warren on the team, drafted high & maybe traded up for, you almost HAVE to get him the lion's share of the snaps. But a TE drafted lower could have just as much impact, especially with Puka & Adams drawing primary coverage.
But, RB tho... one who can pose a HR threat... I'd go for that.

 

[Memphis Ram]

I think you are putting Warren into a box. Was Kupp just a slot receiver?

Warren did much more than the regular tight end position is asked to do. To the right coach he’s more than just a tight end.

But that just goes back to circumstances and opportunities provided. Are you telling me that there are no other TEs in this deep TE draft class than can do multiple things on offense? Some of these guys are also former QBs.

I hope not because that takes me back to a LaDainian Tomlinson lesson I learned years ago when draftnik media claimed he couldn't catch due to his limited targets at TCU. When asked post-draft about it he stated he always could, but that wasn't a part of the offense. He went on to be one of the top backs in receiving in the NFL.

 

[Corbin]

Absolutely love Jaylin Conyers. Watched a few of the his games and he’s pretty impressive for not being a TE his whole football career.

I’d absolutely love to use one of those 6ths that we have on him and put him behind Higbeast and accumulate him to the Pro game.

He has special skills that if you nurtured them I could see them blossom into a league leader at the TE position blocking and catching.

Texas Tech 56-48 Oklahoma State (Nov 23, 2024) Video Highlights - ESPN

Video highlights, recaps and play breakdowns of the Texas Tech Red Raiders vs. Oklahoma State Cowboys NCAAF game from November 23, 2024 on ESPN.

www.espn.com

Jalin Conyers - Texas Tech Red Raiders Tight End - ESPN

View the profile of Texas Tech Red Raiders Tight End Jalin Conyers on ESPN. Get the latest news, live stats and game highlights.

www.espn.com

For a late round project he certainly has some skills to build with.

I was trying to find in the OK St. game he absolutely caved the lb into the DE and caved that whole side of the line in that led to a big gain or TD run, can’t remember it’s been to long. But he at least avg. at blocking.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

But that just goes back to circumstances and opportunities provided. Are you telling me that there are no other TEs in this deep TE draft class than can do multiple things on offense? Some of these guys are also former QBs.

I hope not because that takes me back to a LaDainian Tomlinson lesson I learned years ago when draftnik media claimed he couldn't catch due to his limited targets at TCU. When asked post-draft about it he stated he always could, but that wasn't a part of the offense. He went on to be one of the top backs in receiving in the NFL.

Have any of them proven it?

You are purely going off of an assumption and again claiming Warren’s success was circumstantial. It’s a tired argument.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Have any of them proven it?

You are purely going off of an assumption and again claiming Warren’s success was circumstantial. It’s a tired argument.

There's a clip I provided on Jalin Conyers in this very thread of him doing doing multiple things.

But, either way, are you telling me that it should be considered rare for a talented athlete at TE to be able to line up at various spots, block, run some wildcat QB, take a handoff, or throw a pass just because they weren't featured and/or asked to do so in college?

Would you REALLY believe that Warren was incapable of handling these feats if he wasn't given the opportunity and you didn't see him do it for yourself during his final season?

What's tired for me is what appears to be an idea that Warren is the only player in this draft athlete or capable enough of doing these things.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

There's a clip I provided on Jalin Conyers in this very thread of him doing doing multiple things.

But, either way, are you telling me that it should be considered rare for a talented athlete at TE to be able to line up at various spots, block, run some wildcat QB, take a handoff, or throw a pass just because they weren't featured and/or asked to do so in college?

Would you REALLY believe that Warren was incapable of handling these feats if he wasn't given the opportunity and you didn't see him do it for yourself during his final season?

What's tired for me is what appears to be an idea that Warren is the only player in this draft athlete or capable enough of doing these things.

Okay. I think I get it now. You don’t really think Warren is all that good. You think he’s highly overrated and his success is due to his creative offensive coordinator, and that any tight end could have done the same thing in Penn State’s offense. How many Tight Ends has Kotelnicki helped reach the NFL? It must be a long list of good tight ends, since his system is so good at making them look good.

And yes, every tight end is capable of running the ball, throwing the ball, eating, sleeping, and taking a shit. But none of the tight ends in this draft has proven to be able to do it as well as Tyler Warren has. None of them. Andy Kotelnicki said Tyler Warren is the most intelligent player he has ever coached. I know of a few other very intelligent players whose football knowledge made them much better than their athletic testing indicated they should be; Marshall Faulk and Cooper Kupp. You can do a lot more with a player like that, especially in a complex scheme.

You insist on diminishing that kid’s talent and accomplishments. I don’t get it. Do you think any Tight end in the NFL could duplicate Travis Kelce’s success if he has Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid on his team? Do you think any Tight End in the NFL could duplicate what Tony Gonzalez did, if they had played for the Chiefs in his place? By that measure there are no great players, just perfect situations.

 

[El Chapo Jr]

"Jackson Dart sweepstakes" annoys the hell out of me. What is his value to Pittsburgh when they need someone who can play as a rookie. Where he fits for the Rams is they redshirt him and have a very good talent on their depth chart finally behind Stafford. But for the teams that need production early it just feels like Shough or McCord should be more valuable as options for them.

Unless Dart has something extra in interviews like a magnetic personality or a knack for grasping offensive concepts in whiteboard sessions. Which we can't know. Irritates me that Dart even as a fucking project is likely going to end up being taken too high for us to get him.

Rather get McCord. Let Pittsburgh have him.

 

[El Chapo Jr]

to the OP... it really depends on how far up we trade. I wouldn't trade up any higher than #20 for anyone.
But, at #20... a number of difference makers could fall, especially if there's a run on the QB's since there's just so many QB needy teams right now. Man I'm so glad we're NOT among them.
- Emmanwori. He'd be killer at the star position, though Lake currently fills that role.
- Hampton. If he makes it to #20, get him. Paired next to Kyren (or his mini-me Corum), he would boost this team's scoring. Once ahead, we grind 'em down w/ Kyren. The only other RB I'm hoping we get is Tuten, but I don't know if he lasts until #90, I've seen mocks where he doesn't. Either one would have a huge impact on O, but both would take a trade-up of some type.
- Campbell. Clearly the best LB in this draft, and paired w/ Speights would turbo charge the D. ILB is by far the weakest link on this team.

Honestly, though, I'm hoping we don't trade up for anyone & just let the BPA's come to us.

I hope teams overdraft QBs and let more talented players fall to us. Drafting a QB with our first doesn't seem like a sound plan to maximize Stafford's Superbowl window with us. I don't get this fascination with the future QB if it disrupts getting a plus starter for this year. I worry about winning this year and next. If we suck after that, so be it. Other QBs will come out in those drafts too. Not saying we can't get a QB but it shouldn't be a forced reach.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Okay. I think I get it now. You don’t really think Warren is all that good. You think he’s highly overrated and his success is due to his creative offensive coordinator, and that any tight end could have done the same thing in Penn State’s offense. How many Tight Ends has Kotelnicki helped reach the NFL? It must be a long list of good tight ends, since his system is so good at making them look good.

And yes, every tight end is capable of running the ball, throwing the ball, eating, sleeping, and taking a shit. But none of the tight ends in this draft has proven to be able to do it as well as Tyler Warren has. None of them. Andy Kotelnicki said Tyler Warren is the most intelligent player he has ever coached. I know of a few other very intelligent players whose football knowledge made them much better than their athletic testing indicated they should be; Marshall Faulk and Cooper Kupp. You can do a lot more with a player like that, especially in a complex scheme.

You insist on diminishing that kid’s talent and accomplishments. I don’t get it. Do you think any Tight end in the NFL could duplicate Travis Kelce’s success if he has Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid on his team? Do you think any Tight End in the NFL could duplicate what Tony Gonzalez did, if they had played for the Chiefs in his place? By that measure there are no great players, just perfect situations.

No. I keep telling you what I believe. But you keep coming back with what you think I mean and responding from there with hyperbole (so I'll mix some in with my response).

Again, I believe that Warren is a very talented player. He 's one of the top TEs in a DEEP TE draft class. But, it appears that if I just don't bow at his shrine and blindly praise him, all the sudden I don't think he's any good, or all that good, or any TE can do what he did at the same level. And that's simply not the case at all.

So let's try this again.
(This time please read minus any Warren goggles and I think you might agree).
1) I believe this is the DEEPEST TE draft class that I've ever seen.
2) I don't believe that any TE or player is worth trading up for in the 1st round of this draft class.
3) I don't believe that the overall impact of a great TE vs. a very good TE is significant enough expend extra assets to obtain.
4) I believe that a good TE placed in a very good to great situation can shine and impact his team about as much, or more, as a great TE in a lesser situation.
5) I believe that there are many talented athletes with untapped skills and abilities not utilized by their coaching staffs (situations).
6) And finally, while I believe that Tyler Warren is very talented and may very well be the best TE in THIS draft class, I don't believe that he's the greatest thing since sliced bread like I think you mean.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

No. I keep telling you what I believe. But you keep coming back with what you think I mean and responding from there with hyperbole (so I'll mix some in with my response).

Again, I believe that Warren is a very talented player. He 's one of the top TEs in a DEEP TE draft class. But, it appears that if I just don't bow at his shrine and blindly praise him, all the sudden I don't think he's any good, or all that good, or any TE can do what he did at the same level. And that's simply not the case at all.

So let's try this again.
(This time please read minus any Warren goggles and I think you might agree).
1) I believe this is the DEEPEST TE draft class that I've ever seen.
2) I don't believe that any TE or player is worth trading up for in the 1st round of this draft class.
3) I don't believe that the overall impact of a great TE vs. a very good TE is significant enough expend extra assets to obtain.
4) I believe that a good TE placed in a very good to great situation can shine and impact his team about as much, or more, as a great TE in a lesser situation.
5) I believe that there are many talented athletes with untapped skills and abilities not utilized by their coaching staffs (situations).
6) And finally, while I believe that Tyler Warren is very talented and may very well be the best TE in THIS draft class, I don't believe that he's the greatest thing since sliced bread like I think you mean.

3 & 4 are not good assumptions. There are many tight ends drafted that never become impactful players. The good ones shine. Otherwise, there would be good tight ends on every team.

5 is just wishful thinking. Each year in the draft teams find a few players in late rounds or as UDFAs, that contribute, mostly as special teams players and backups. Very few, not several, of them shine. Overall, most of those few players are solid contributors that may see some starting time but seldom get resigned by their teams after four years.

And no, it wasn’t hyperbole. I was just repeating things you said. I understand it if you don’t think Warren will ever be great. Few players are. But to suggest others could produce similarly if put in his situation is a discredit to his accomplishments.

This may be a deep tight end class, but thinking that you will get top talent in rounds 1-7 is a draft lovers folly. The reality is that there will be a 1-2 tight ends that really shine mixed in with 2-3 good ones. The rest will be Davis Allen’s, Colby Parkinsons and Hunter Longs.

 

[Memphis Ram]

3 & 4 are not good assumptions. There are many tight ends drafted that never become impactful players. The good ones shine. Otherwise, there would be good tight ends on every team.

5 is just wishful thinking. Each year in the draft teams find a few players in late rounds or as UDFAs, that contribute, mostly as special teams players and backups. Very few, not several, of them shine. Overall, most of those few players are solid contributors that may see some starting time but seldom get resigned by their teams after four years.

And no, it wasn’t hyperbole. I was just repeating things you said. I understand it if you don’t think Warren will ever be great. Few players are. But to suggest others could produce similarly if put in his situation is a discredit to his accomplishments.

This may be a deep tight end class, but thinking that you will get top talent in rounds 1-7 is a draft lovers folly. The reality is that there will be a 1-2 tight ends that really shine mixed in with 2-3 good ones. The rest will be Davis Allen’s, Colby Parkinsons and Hunter Longs.

I disagree. #3 & #4 are very good assumptions and have played out in the league IMO. Many TEs drafted that never become impactful players? Huh? Of course. I think you mis-read my statements again.

#5 is just wishful thinking. Hopefully you don't believe that all these great athletes came to college limited to the skills required at the position of which they play.

Repeating what I said??? No. Show me where I said Warren isn't any good or that anybody can do what he did at the same level as you claimed. You can't because I never said it. Yet you went on a tangent regarding such.

Show me where I said you can get top talent in rounds 1-7 in this draft class. You can't because I never said it. I pointed out the depth of the draft class and the potential overall impact of these guys from good to great if placed in the right situation isn't as significant to warrant trading up for Warren.

Good grief.