What will it take to make the Stafford trade worth it in your opinion?

[Loyal]

Well first I don’t like the what if game. I could just as easily say what if our offense improved from last year and our defense didn’t drop to middle of the pack. It doesn’t really get us anywhere

I agree with you it’s impossible to quantify directly. Funny story I’m actually going to school for this kinda stuff and I spend a lot of time doing data analytics. Well long story short I recently completed a project regarding how impossible it is to compare teams from different years because there is essentially no baseline for comparison. Things like difficulty of competition, rule changes, health, etc make it all irrelevant year to to year.

I also agree that is unfair to put Super Bowl expectations on a single player as we see every year the NFL playoffs are a crapshoot. However I don’t think it was the fan base that put these expectations on Stafford it was the FO. Goff’s limitations aside how often do you see a former #1 overall pick at the ripe age of 26 who has been to 2 pro bowls a Super Bowl etc traded the year after leading his team to the second round of the playoffs? I don’t recall an even similar situation tbh. Now I get it those achievements didn’t happen all because of Goff just like Stafford can’t singlehandedly win us a Super Bowl. During certain years of Goff’s tenure the offense led the team and others like last year the defense bailed him out. Still it’s pretty unprecedented for a QB who has had this much relative success with no real injury history to be dealt at such a young age. Therefore I don’t think it’s unreasonable that the expectations for his replacement are also pretty unprecedented.

You can have lost faith in Goff all you want but you can’t justify a belief that we couldn’t continue to make the playoffs with him under the helm. Therefore I want his upgrade to take us further.

I don't disagree with mch of what you said, but... Against good defensive teams, the Rams struggled, especially against playoff contenders. Even the Niners who were an injury riddled team, how do we not beat them at least one game? I am not only blaming JG, but also the gameplanning that McVay brought forward...It just wasn't good enough. Was it because JG was a QB that McVay "carried," as many Rams enemies contended? Was McVay hobbled due to Jared's limitations, or has McVay shown his limitations?

We are about to find the answers, I believe. IF Stafford is a better QB than Goff and is able to grasp more of McVay's offense, that will be apparent on the field this year. If Stafford is what I believe he is, the offense is going to be unstopable if the RB situation is figured out. If I am wrong, then McVay and Stafford are in trouble, but I don't think I am.

 

[CoachAllred]

And the age for a QB doesn't mean much.

No it doesn't. I hear people quoting 2 to 3 years and that is totally ridiculous.
It would take a catastrophic injury for that to happen.
Stafford can play as long as he wants. I'm saying absolute minimum 5yrs.

Stafford has what has been quoted as a "forever arm." ( I think it was Rich Eison)
His arm strength is that special. We just have to keep him up right.

In Detroit he was getting sacked around 40 times a year on average,
compared to Goff who stayed around about 25 times a year.

 

[jrry32]

Can you expand on that? Genuinely curious.

To me it's seemed like people who opposed or liked the trade do so based on how much value they place on Goff and Stafford individually, which doesn't really have anything to do with the Super Bowl.

I expect the Rams to win it all next year, but that's because aside from Stafford, we have McVay, a run game, great WRs, a solid OL and hopefully a top 5 defense. I suppose I'd be more open to people proclaiming Super Bowl or bust for Stafford specifically if it's qualified with "all things equal aside from QB from 2020 to 2021" - otherwise to me it's the same as the last few years where I expect that and it's a team failure if we don't get there.

Sure. I'll try to be as succinct as possible. My outlook was with Goff entering the prime window, we should wait another year. If he's not the guy, use what we have to trade up for a QB McVay likes. If we were going to make a trade, it needed to be for a QB who is either elite (Aaron Rodgers) or looks to be on the cusp of elite (Deshaun Watson). Because that is what I felt would elevate us to one of the Super Bowl favorites. Otherwise, I felt good about our chances of making the playoffs with Goff and thought that anything is possible once you were there.

That is why I opposed the trade. As talented as Stafford is, I don't feel he is in that class of QBs. And to me, this is the sort of move you make when you're pushing your chips to the center of the table. You're going for the Super Bowl. Otherwise, you take the patient approach. So it is unsurprising that I feel this trade needs to have a Super Bowl or bust outcome when I felt a trade like this is a Super Bowl or bust trade (and didn't like it because I didn't see Stafford as a Super Bowl or bust level QB). Does that make sense?

That's what the media has been saying since we signed Suh.....

It's a team sport. Our coach felt that an upgrade was needed at QB. We all know you are a Goff guy. So was I. Still hope he plays well in Detroit. Our chips have been all in since McVay got here and I love it...

I never agreed with them in the past. In fact, I'd usually debate people who felt we were doing that. Yes, we were going after the Super Bowl aggressively. But our core pieces were still young. That allowed us to have an extended window imo.

 

[jrry32]

No it doesn't. I hear people quoting 2 to 3 years and that is totally ridiculous.
It would take a catastrophic injury for that to happen.
Stafford can play as long as he wants. I'm saying absolute minimum 5yrs.

Stafford has what has been quoted as a "forever arm." ( I think it was Rich Eison)
His arm strength is that special. We just have to keep him up right.

In Detroit he was getting sacked around 40 times a year on average,
compared to Goff who stayed around about 25 times a year.

My concern with Stafford is injuries. It gets harder to stay healthy each year. And Stafford has had some bad injuries over the past couple of years (in addition to some injuries early in his career). The guys who age well are guys who have generally stayed healthy.

 

[CoachAllred]

If the Rams didnt trade for Stafford, yes I would feel like the team was going to challenge for a Superbowl this season. Who wouldnt have? Injured Goff had them down only 7 late, Akers was coming on strong, the defense was gutted with a 50% AD.
Yup, the bar for this season was raised. Is it really that complicated?

I would be hoping we would challenge for a SB.
But if we hadn't have traded for Stafford, The team vibe was pointing at a possible John Wolford led team
or at the very least a camp competition with les bringing in as many competitors as possible.
Stafford trade or not -- McSnead was ready to move on.

 

[NJRamsFan]

I don't disagree with mch of what you said, but... Against good defensive teams, the Rams struggled, especially against playoff contenders. Even the Niners who were an injury riddled team, how do we not beat them at least one game? I am not only blaming JG, but also the gameplanning that McVay brought forward...It just wasn't good enough. Was it because JG was a QB that McVay "carried," as many Rams enemies contended? Was McVay hobbled due to Jared's limitations, or has McVay shown his limitations?

We are about to find the answers, I believe. IF Stafford is a better QB than Goff and is able to grasp more of McVay's offense, that will be apparent on the field this year. If Stafford is what I believe he is, the offense is going to be unstopable if the RB situation is figured out. If I am wrong, then McVay and Stafford are in trouble, but I don't think I am.

Here’s the thing dude. Goff sucked dick last year (am I allowed to say that? If I’m gonna get banned just don’t let it be mojo to pull the trigger). There is no denying it. I literally did not feel confident going into any game last year.

I believe Sean McVay is of the BB mold and we are fortunate to have him.

I believe Matthew Stafford has every bit of toughness and arm talent as any qb I’ve seen.

I don’t really think any thing I said so far should even be debatable.

That said, as I mentioned we did something not many teams do. We traded away a young qb who has won a lot and taken our team to the big dance. Was it the right move? Idk. And I do believe in McVay. I truly believe we will have a better offense this year. But in the same sense if we don’t achieve more why did we pay more for the same?

 

[jrry32]

There is no reason to think we wouldn't have gone to the playoffs this year? What if our Defense drops to middle of the pack? You think we make the playoffs with the Offense we had last year and an NFL average Defense? I am not sure.

The thing is, it is impossible to quantify if it is a better team or not. I believe it is, but there is no definitive way. I just don't agree with the Arbitrary "SB or Bust" as there are WAY to many factors that go into winning a superbowl, and many if not most will have nothing to do with the trade.

Well, our defense was middle of the pack in 2019. We also had an absolutely awful running game that year (and an OL that didn't play well). Yet, we would have made the playoffs in 2019 if Greg Zuerlein had hit the GW FG against Seattle. So I'll say that I think the offense would have risen to the occasion.

 

[CoachAllred]

We traded away a young qb who has won a lot and taken our team to the big dance.

Goff made some nice plays in that SB run but overall did not play well at all.
The Rams didn't make it to SB on Goffs shoulders. They made it as a team.
Don't take my word for it go look at the stats.
Nothing against Goff but the weight in which SB wins and loss are put on QB's is beyond insane.

 

[thirteen28]

I truly believe we will have a better offense this year. But in the same sense if we don’t achieve more why did we pay more for the same?

Hammer. Nail. Head.

 

[NJRamsFan]

Goff made some nice plays in that SB run but overall did not play well at all.
The Rams didn't make it to SB on Goffs shoulders. They made it as a team.
Don't take my word for it go look at the stats.
Nothing against Goff but the weight in which SB wins and loss are put on QB's is beyond insane.

You deleted the part of that post where I literally said “I get it those achievements didn’t happen all because of Goff” and then proceeded to tell me Goff didn’t do it on his own….

 

[CoachAllred]

You deleted the part of that post where I literally said “I get it those achievements didn’t happen all because of Goff” and then proceeded to tell me Goff didn’t do it on his own….

No I was trying amplify your point. Was in agreement with your points.

 

[NJRamsFan]

No I was trying amplify your point. Was in agreement with your points.

My bad. White wine will sneak up on ya LOL

 

[CoachAllred]

My bad. White wine will sneak up on ya LOL

LOL. been there. Peace

 

[jrry32]

Goff made some nice plays in that SB run but overall did not play well at all.
The Rams didn't make it to SB on Goffs shoulders. They made it as a team.
Don't take my word for it go look at the stats.
Nothing against Goff but the weight in which SB wins and loss are put on QB's is beyond insane.

Dallas? Sure. But the running game was steamrolling them. New Orleans? Nah. Goff played a great game, regardless of what the numbers say. Hat's off to the defense and Zuerlein too on that day (even if NRC got lucky), but Goff was great.

 

[PhillyRam]

Team needs don't influence player availability. The Rams could still have those picks and still be screwed at finding this legitimate QB. There are teams who kept their draft picks that took years to find or are still looking for one.

Of course, but not having them makes it even harder. I mean that should be obvious.

 

[CoachAllred]

Dallas? Sure. But the running game was steamrolling them. New Orleans? Nah. Goff played a great game, regardless of what the numbers say. Hat's off to the defense and Zuerlein too on that day (even if NRC got lucky), but Goff was great.

In three games he threw 1 td pass and 2int's. completed 55.7 of his pass attempts. with a QB rating of 71.7
He fumbled the ball in two of those games, that we were fortunate to recover.
Nothing about these performances says great. Nothing.

 

[jrry32]

In three games he threw 1 td pass and 2int's. completed 55.7 of his pass attempts. with a QB rating of 71.7
He fumbled the ball in two of those games, that we were fortunate to recover.
Nothing about these performances says great. Nothing.

Yet, my post discussed one specific game: New Orleans. And yes, his performance that day was very much great. He outplayed Drew Brees. Pretty damn impressive for a young QB in his first NFCCG.

 

[CoachAllred]

Yet, my post discussed one specific game: New Orleans. And yes, his performance that day was very much great. He outplayed Drew Brees. Pretty damn impressive for a young QB in his first NFCCG.

And my original post said he made some good plays and that was referring to N.O.
He played well at times in that game, probably one of his best.
But to apply the word Great to it is a discredit to all of the QB's who have actually played great in the playoffs.

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

In three games he threw 1 td pass and 2int's. completed 55.7 of his pass attempts. with a QB rating of 71.7
He fumbled the ball in two of those games, that we were fortunate to recover.
Nothing about these performances says great. Nothing.

In three games he threw 1 td pass and 2int's. completed 55.7 of his pass attempts. with a QB rating of 71.7
He fumbled the ball in two of those games, that we were fortunate to recover.
Nothing about these performances says great. Nothing.

Did your stat sheet mention the final two drives in probably thee most hostile environment in NFL post season history that propelled the Rams to the Super Bowl?

Or the gutsy game clinching 3rd and long scramble for a 1st down to defeat Dallas?

Winning football...Coach

Nah of course not, how quickly we forget.

 

[jrry32]

And my original post said he made some good plays and that was referring to N.O.
He played well at times in that game, probably one of his best.
But to apply the word Great to it is a discredit to all of the QB's who have actually played great in the playoffs.

Nah, dude, he played a great game. Admitting that doesn't discredit anybody else. His lone INT bounced off of Gurley's hands and chest, and Gurley's short rushing TD in that game came on a drive where we started at the 19 with less than two minutes in the half and moved the ball solely through the air prior to the TD run. Goff was great that day. Helped to dig us out of a 13-0 hole in arguably the most hostile environment in the NFL. Give props where they're due.