What will it take to make the Stafford trade worth it in your opinion?

[tklongball]

Well first I don’t like the what if game. I could just as easily say what if our offense improved from last year and our defense didn’t drop to middle of the pack. It doesn’t really get us anywhere

I agree with you it’s impossible to quantify directly. Funny story I’m actually going to school for this kinda stuff and I spend a lot of time doing data analytics. Well long story short I recently completed a project regarding how impossible it is to compare teams from different years because there is essentially no baseline for comparison. Things like difficulty of competition, rule changes, health, etc make it all irrelevant year to to year.

I also agree that is unfair to put Super Bowl expectations on a single player as we see every year the NFL playoffs are a crapshoot. However I don’t think it was the fan base that put these expectations on Stafford it was the FO. Goff’s limitations aside how often do you see a former #1 overall pick at the ripe age of 26 who has been to 2 pro bowls a Super Bowl etc traded the year after leading his team to the second round of the playoffs? I don’t recall an even similar situation tbh. Now I get it those achievements didn’t happen all because of Goff just like Stafford can’t singlehandedly win us a Super Bowl. During certain years of Goff’s tenure the offense led the team and others like last year the defense bailed him out. Still it’s pretty unprecedented for a QB who has had this much relative success with no real injury history to be dealt at such a young age. Therefore I don’t think it’s unreasonable that the expectations for his replacement are also pretty unprecedented.

You can have lost faith in Goff all you want but you can’t justify a belief that we couldn’t continue to make the playoffs with him under the helm. Therefore I want his upgrade to take us further.

I only mentioned the What if stuff to say why I wouldn't guarantee the playoffs this year had the trade not happened.

FO Stuff is all coach speak to me. It is the stuff they have to say.

NFL DCs are great at exploiting an Offense's weakness. I believe that once they figured out that Goff wilts in the face of pressure, they used that to great effect, which is why Goff regressed the last couple years (I personally think the Detroit game prior to the Chicago game was where we saw the beginnings of what made Goff struggle). I think it truly limited what McVay could do. Goff rarely made defenses pay for pressuring up the middle. I truly believe that McVay/Goff took the NFL by storm, and had great success before the Defensive Coordinators figured Goff's weakness. DCs always do that, they take away what you do best, and if you don't or can't adjust, they keep coming with it. I just never saw Goff adjust. I saw McVay try to adjust, but never saw Goff overcome it. He may in time we will see.

Stafford will make DCs pay for sending pressure, and has throughout his career. I think you will see our offense open up and do a lot of things McVay was hesitant to do. I think we will see far fewer screens on 3rd and long (at least I hope so). I think we will see more of an attacking offense, and less of a 'minimize the risk' type offense.

I supported Goff while he was our QB, but the last 2 years, I saw him not adjust to what was happening to him, and that is a recipe for disaster for an NFL QB.

 

[RamFan503]

That post was definitely like making a pizza with Canadian bacon with no pineapple!

Or a Jelly donut with no Lemon Jelly filling.

 

[Memphis Ram]

i shake my head at how folks cant discuss Stafford without bringing up Goff. Its truly amazing.
After they lost, McVay could have announced Wolford was going to be the QB and I'd have felt they'd be SB contenders. I dont understand why so many people are afraid that Stafford wont be successful, and are making excuses for him already. Really weird.
If they arent SB contenders, it would be a disappointment, and combined with the outcome of the draft pick they surrendered, we can honestly evaluate.
Fortunately, we wont have to have that discussion because Stafford is going to be a Boss and there will be no argument that the trade was worth it.

I struggle with how anyone would not expect Goff to be brought up given he was a part of the trade and the question asked.

And frankly, while I may have missed it, I haven't read anyone yet who seems afraid that Stafford won't be successful. Just common sense perspectives pointing out how one man isn't the end all to a Super Bowl.

BTW, maybe it's just me, but "Super Bowl contenders" and "Super Bowl or Bust" seem to be two different takes altogether. From my perspective there are about 12 legit Super Bowl contenders. And I have my doubts that anyone here would not include the Rams in that number.

 

[dieterbrock]

Win what? Games? Sure.
The Super Bowl? The expectation?

C'mon that's great for team motivation, but it's foolishness for anyone who understands that each team and each season and their circumstances are different.

The other teams weren't standing pat with only the Rams making adjustments.
They didn't sit back in awe and not develop strategies to thwart the team.
The 49ers starting QB didn't stay injured missing most of the following season.
Gurley's knee didn't magically improve.

If not for the Rams deciphering the Cowboys rush defense they might have even lost that playoff game.
And let's not even talk about the non pass interference call vs. the Saints.

NFL players will tell you that it takes a lot of things to go right for a team to get to and win a Super Bowl. It ain't as easy as adding a "stud" QB because there are some that don't have rings.

So basically you choose to make excuses for why the Rams shouldnt have won games? That's really weird. But I guess that goes hand in hand with what seems obvious in that you already feel you need to make excuses for Stafford not winning either.
Me? I think the Rams were the better team in every game they won, and in the games they lost it was an unlucky break here or there that cost them.

 

[dieterbrock]

I struggle with how anyone would not expect Goff to be brought up given he was a part of the trade and the question asked.

Because the topic is Stafford. Goff is gone, people have to come to grips with that and get over it already.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Because the topic is Stafford. Goff is gone, people have to come to grips with that and get over it already.

The topic is the trade and it's potential outcome for the Rams.

 

[Memphis Ram]

So basically you choose to make excuses for why the Rams shouldnt have won games? That's really weird. But I guess that goes hand in hand with what seems obvious in that you already feel you need to make excuses for Stafford not winning either.
Me? I think the Rams were the better team in every game they won, and in the games they lost it was an unlucky break here or there that cost them.

Excuses? Huh.

I thought it was just common sense.

Remember, I've already pointed out that I wouldn't have made the trade. So why would I make excuses?

 

[dieterbrock]

The topic is the trade and it's potential outcome for the Rams.

Glad you noticed! Although, more accurately put, the trade FOR Stafford. If you believe in the guy, like I do, then the answer is simple. He makes the team better, they should be SB Contenders. Period, full stop.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Glad you noticed! Although, more accurately put, the trade FOR Stafford. If you believe in the guy, like I do, then the answer is simple. He makes the team better, they should be SB Contenders. Period, full stop.

For which GOFF was apart of, right?? I see no railing from you about posters mentions of the draft choices!?!

Makes the team better? I believe most here believe the same.
Super Bowl Contenders? Again, I believe most, if not all, here believe the same.
Super Bowl or Bust because of one player? That's where the disagreement comes because no one man has that affect.
Period. Full Stop.

 

[Merlin]

And my original post said he made some good plays and that was referring to N.O.
He played well at times in that game, probably one of his best.
But to apply the word Great to it is a discredit to all of the QB's who have actually played great in the playoffs.

That New Orleans game was Goff's greatest performance to date IMO. Simply because of the hostility of the environment that day. Aints were pumping noise out, crowd had all manner of noisemakers in their hands, totally hostile environment for the guy running the offense.

He didn't play great early in the game but he kept us in it and came through when it mattered. To this day I hate that the game was all about the non-call because it was a performance that a young QB at that point in his career should be proud of.

Now the Super Bowl and the seasons after it are another matter and discussion. But in that NFC Championship we got through it in large part due to timely throws by our QB.

 

[Tano]

The Lion and Goff play 48er's, Packers, Ravens, Bears and Vikings their first five games.

I think the answer will be obvious after that.

Lions suck so that doesn’t matter a damn bit

 

[FrantikRam]

For which GOFF was apart of, right?? I see no railing from you about posters mentions of the draft choices!?!

Makes the team better? I believe most here believe the same.
Super Bowl Contenders? Again, I believe most, if not all, here believe the same.
Super Bowl or Bust because of one player? That's where the disagreement comes because no one man has that affect.
Period. Full Stop.

Perfect summary.

If we could go back in time one year and swap Goff for Stafford, I think we end up the 1 or 2 seed and play in the NFCCG, probably win. And definitely smash the Chiefs with their OL issues.

But that was with the Niners having a record number of injuries and the Rams mostly good health across the board. Already this year were in a worse position with Akers being out.

We're also without one of the best safeties in the league and are relying on Floyd to reproduce a season he really hadn't come close to before - and lost one of our top pass rushers in Morgan Fox.

I have confidence in a lot of the young guys, but at the end of the day, were still currently the youngest team in the league and the loss of JJ might be enough to drop the defense down to 10th (along with regression to the mean for Floyd which would lead to a mediocre pass rush, which in turn will hurt the secondary even more).

I think Stafford will tear it up, but he might have to just to make up for the defense getting worse and Akers being out.

I think we're on the short list of teams that can win it all this year, but Super Bowl or bust because of this trade? No way. The Bucs are the first Super Bowl champ in the free agency era to bring back all 22 starters. The Chiefs basically turned their OL into the avengers. Even if we are the most talented team in the NFL - and we might be if some of these midround picks develop - it's not by much.

The season will be a disappointment to me if we don't win it all, as it will be for every team on that short list that have those expectations. But I'd feel the same with Goff at the helm too.

 

[Tano]

How about those of us hanging on to the "we had zero winning seasons in the 12 years before Goff and he led us to four winning seasons in five years as our QB"? I've had more than enough of people shitting on the guy. He never did a thing to disrespect this franchise as our QB. He played through injuries. He stood tall even when taking beatings. He behaved himself off the field. And he helped us win football games. The Rams made the decision to trade him. That's their right.

Regardless of the break-up, I like Goff, I appreciate what he did as our QB, and I'm tired of people spewing bullshit about him. It reminds me of how many in this fanbase treated Kurt. You can celebrate Stafford without talking bad about Goff or saying things that are patently false. I've been trying to hold my tongue after the way things blew up here following the trade. But I don't think it's too much to ask for people to not bash Goff in every Stafford thread. This thread topic asks what Stafford needs to do to make the trade worth it, not why Jared Goff is a shitty liability who prevented this team from achieving more.

Finally, I'll reiterate that Goff has been a young QB his entire time here. Inconsistent play and statistical regression are completely normal for pocket passers his age. Go look at Stafford's career. He sucked as a rookie. Made a huge leap in years two and three (but was injured for most of year two). Then, he regressed and played mediocre football the next three years. He didn't become the QB he is today with any consistency until he was 27 years old (which is normal for a pocket passer). Goff is still 26 years old.

I won't complain because the Rams didn't want to wait and see on Goff. They think their window is limited. That's fine. That's their call. But this is the reality of having a young pocket passer as your QB. I've said that for years. It is what it is. I hope we win a Super Bowl. I hope this trade works out for us. And I hope some people in this fanbase give the Goff slander a rest. The dude hasn't earned it. And a good chunk of us don't appreciate it. Now, we can get back to talking about Stafford.

This times 1000

 

[Loyal]

That New Orleans game was Goff's greatest performance to date IMO. Simply because of the hostility of the environment that day. Aints were pumping noise out, crowd had all manner of noisemakers in their hands, totally hostile environment for the guy running the offense.

He didn't play great early in the game but he kept us in it and came through when it mattered. To this day I hate that the game was all about the non-call because it was a performance that a young QB at that point in his career should be proud of.

Now the Super Bowl and the seasons after it are another matter and discussion. But in that NFC Championship we got through it in large part due to timely throws by our QB.

It was his best game and we all loved it, especially Robey-Coleman...lol

 

[Tano]

IMO, to say that the Rams have to make the Super Bowl because of this trade suggests to me one would have to believe that to be the likely outcome if the trade hadn't occurred.

In other words, wouldn't the thought process have to be that they can't make that trade and not make the Super Bowl, because they were going to the Super Bowl with Goff and those draft choices?

Personally and you can disagree with me all you want but if we stayed mostly healthy (aka Akers and no really important player being out more than half a season) , I think we have a good chance winning the SB with Goff. Now bash away.

 

[Tano]

Good. We're agreed that this is a Super Bowl or bust trade. But it's also worth noting that none of the moves you mentioned were nearly as significant in terms of what we gave up, outside of the Ramsey trade. And the Ramsey trade was us acquiring arguably the best CB in the NFL at the age of 25, so it was justifiable as both a short-term decision and a long-term decision. (In fact, all of those trades involved us acquiring relatively young players.) In the case of this trade, we acquired a much more veteran player. We've pushed our chips into the center of the table.

All in man all in

 

[Tano]

LOL. No. He didn't.

I find it so mind boggling that people people continue to preach the "be nice to Jared Goff mantra" when over the years people absolutely ripped other former Rams like Chris Long, Sam Bradford, Tavon Austin, Alec Ogletree, and Todd Gurley (no matter what their post-Ram success level was) but when someone dares to criticize and point out all the flaws Jared Goff has - that's suddenly off limits. And double the fact with this new found optimism with the 2021 Lions season I've seen in other threads.

I seriously wonder why that is. Jersey investments? I've been burned twice in that department so I would understand. Or can they not get over that "their guy" in 2016 didn't pan out?

And if he, you, or anyone else for that matter want to block me because I have this outlook, go right ahead. Certainly wouldn't be the first ones, nor the last. I know I'm not the most well received person here. That's fine, I've embraced the heel role when it comes to the Rams.



If that's the case, the means the O carried its weight. Something it didn't do the past couple years. At least consistently.

Never called out ex Rams other than Blythe. I really need to stop that too. The other ones it was just time to go and find someone who fit the team better or were too expensive.

 

[Tano]

Seriously in 100 parallel universes they called that penalty 99 other times. The one for tu are time we live in this timeline! Lol

Yeah but what about the facemask against Goff and the hands to the face against Donald on the same exact play as the PI - both not called

 

[Corbin]

Yeah but what about the facemask against Goff and the hands to the face against Donald on the same exact play as the PI - both not called

What about us holding their WR on the previous play?

This Can go on forever but let me ask you which is more obvious of a foul? A hands to the face on a play or a PI play near the end zone at the end of a game with only participants?

That’s right the PI play.

However, I feel zero sympathy because everybody always seems to forget the Saints ONLY got home field against us because of those 2 phantom PI’s week 17 against the Steelers that gave them 2 touchdowns so fuck the Aints!

It wouldn’t have been that close in LA.

 

[Tano]

What about us holding their WR on the previous play?

This Can go on forever but let me ask you which is more obvious of a foul? A hands to the face on a play or a PI play near the end zone at the end of a game with only participants?

That’s right the PI play.

However, I feel zero sympathy because everybody always seems to forget the Saints ONLY got home field against us because of those 2 phantom PI’s week 17 against the Steelers that gave them 2 touchdowns so fuck the Aints!

It wouldn’t have been that close in LA.

I am more about the facemask. I was just adding that there was also a penalty on NO on the PI that I would be bitching about since I am a biased Rams fan lol