What will it take to make the Stafford trade worth it in your opinion?

[So Ram]

LOL. No. He didn't.

I find it so mind boggling that people people continue to preach the "be nice to Jared Goff mantra" when over the years people absolutely ripped other former Rams like Chris Long, Sam Bradford, Tavon Austin, Alec Ogletree, and Todd Gurley (no matter what their post-Ram success level was) but when someone dares to criticize and point out all the flaws Jared Goff has - that's suddenly off limits. And double the fact with this new found optimism with the 2021 Lions season I've seen in other threads.

I seriously wonder why that is. Jersey investments? I've been burned twice in that department so I would understand. Or can they not get over that "their guy" in 2016 didn't pan out?

And if he, you, or anyone else for that matter want to block me because I have this outlook, go right ahead. Certainly wouldn't be the first ones, nor the last. I know I'm not the most well received person here. That's fine, I've embraced the heel role when it comes to the Rams.



If that's the case, the means the O carried its weight. Something it didn't do the past couple years. At least consistently.

I’ll agree with not phrasing Jared Goff.I think I’ve done it a few times on his play.I think he had a winning mind set.I saw him loss confidence last season & his game went to crap.

Think the Giants might be a better comp. The biggest issue with them is Daniel Jones and his TOs, but he's decent to good when everything else is right. Sound familiar???

when was the last time the Giants had a winning record? Oh yeah & what kind of props does Eli get for winning it twice ?

 

[Loyal]

In reality, a SB win defines success in the NFL. So I went with the first option. For me as a fan, I want to watch a QB that gives me confidence at that position. I want a leader. I think we have that now and it has been sorely lacking really since Warner. Now we have a leader on both sides of the ball.

I was always a Goff supporter and if he was still in horns, I would be to this day. That said, Goff never made me truly confident that I would know which Goff I would get from game to game - hell - even from play to play. I saw a kid with great accuracy and a will to get up and brush himself off. But I also saw a kid that simply looked lost at times and seemingly unaware that a defender would have the audacity to try to knock the ball from his hands. He would go from threading the needle to throwing unbelievable WTF passes. There was not only too much inconsistency, but it appeared that rather than improving, the inconsistent play was just getting more prevalent.

So SB or bust HAS to be a team's mindset and ultimate determination of "success". So if looking at the trade by itself? Absolutely.

I would be ecstatic with another SB win or more. But as a Ram fan, I know that everything has to fall in place and you have to be at least a little bit lucky. I will always love my team and if they are in the hunt consistently, that will still be a success.

Now let's go get some fucking hardware!

YOUSONOFA

 

[tklongball]

Sorry, but I think most of you are either over thinking this, or using how you feel about the trade to affect your reasoning. To me the correct answer is be a better team after the trade is made. So, do I think we are better with Stafford and without the draft pics? Yes. So the trade was a success to me.

To say that they have to win the super bowl for the trade to be a success, to me, doesn't make sense, regardless of the coach speak of McVey and Snead. You can't control Injuries, etc. What if we put together the best team in the league and 4/5ths of our OL go down with season ending injuries? To say that that makes it a bad trade is ridiculous.

You make every move to make the team better, period. I don't really think it is even an arguable point. If you make a trade, and the team is better, how could it be a bad trade? Now you can put your own expectations and feelings about the players into how you feel about the trade, but successful or not, is simply a matter of if the team is better. And you can't go by record since we don't know what the record would have been this year with Goff. So what this really boils down to is if people on this board feel like the team is better having made the trade. I personally do. Some will not, which is fine. But that is how people should be looking at this trade (or any move/trade/cut/pickup/draft pick, etc.)

So to sum up my rambling thoughts on the matter I think the real question is do you think the team is better post trade? I do.

 

[kurtfaulk]

So if Stafford plays lights out and the defense falls apart, is it a bad trade?
(Again different season, teams, and circumstances).

I wouldn't think so.
And the question did ask our opinion and not what McVay or Snead may think.

that's a hypothetical that doesn't fit in with reality.

.

 

[kurtfaulk]

Problem there is, in the post I quoted you seem to be hanging on to something McVay SAID. So if actions speak louder than words, I'm not sure why you were putting so much stock into McVay saying that to begin with.

I agree that actions speak louder than words though - and every action has lined right up with trading Goff. Super Bowl or bust every year.

that's a convoluted way to get to the same answer.

.

 

[dieterbrock]

Really? So you felt like our former QB was doing great and would lead us to the SB? Really? I mean, seriously.... Do you believe that? All good if you do, just curious. I loved JG..... until I didn't.

If the Rams didnt trade for Stafford, yes I would feel like the team was going to challenge for a Superbowl this season. Who wouldnt have? Injured Goff had them down only 7 late, Akers was coming on strong, the defense was gutted with a 50% AD.
Yup, the bar for this season was raised. Is it really that complicated?

 

[dieterbrock]

They were in the Super Bowl a couple seasons back. That didn't mean anything the following season.
Different season. Different team. Different circumstances.

I don't doubt or expect the TEAM with Stafford can do it or not. I hope so.

Really? The expectation for the season after the Superbowl loss wasnt to win? That's not what I recall. I recall the season being a huge disappointment, the defense was deplorable, Wade fired etc. And even with the bumps and bruises, the Rams were knocking on the door of playing for the NFC Championship.
We're talking about expectations here, what team doesnt set expectations for the next season based on how the previous season went?

 

[Giles]

Easy win a sb in his time here. Anything less would be a waste to me. Stafford should have zero issues having a better resume than the previous qb if he's a upgrade.

 

[NJRamsFan]

Sorry, but I think most of you are either over thinking this, or using how you feel about the trade to affect your reasoning. To me the correct answer is be a better team after the trade is made. So, do I think we are better with Stafford and without the draft pics? Yes. So the trade was a success to me.

I think the point that a lot of us are stuck on is how do you quantify a better team? We were consistently going to the playoffs with varying levels of success prior to the trade. There’s no reason to believe we wouldn’t have gone to the playoffs again this year with or without the trade. So if we gave up assets to only continue the same trajectory we were already on it will have been a waste. Pre season predictions and how comfortable you feel as a fan are nice but in reality results matter. We were a playoff team before the trade. If we’re not a Super Bowl team now what did we accomplish?

 

[TK42-RAM]

I said MVP contention - you'd like to see him out perform Jared - but that should be straightforward considering what Jared has walked into. Super-Bowls are hard to win. If Stafford is in MVP contention we should be in SB contention.

 

[tklongball]

I think the point that a lot of us are stuck on is how do you quantify a better team? We were consistently going to the playoffs with varying levels of success prior to the trade. There’s no reason to believe we wouldn’t have gone to the playoffs again this year with or without the trade. So if we gave up assets to only continue the same trajectory we were already on it will have been a waste. Pre season predictions and how comfortable you feel as a fan are nice but in reality results matter. We were a playoff team before the trade. If we’re not a Super Bowl team now what did we accomplish?

There is no reason to think we wouldn't have gone to the playoffs this year? What if our Defense drops to middle of the pack? You think we make the playoffs with the Offense we had last year and an NFL average Defense? I am not sure.

The thing is, it is impossible to quantify if it is a better team or not. I believe it is, but there is no definitive way. I just don't agree with the Arbitrary "SB or Bust" as there are WAY to many factors that go into winning a superbowl, and many if not most will have nothing to do with the trade.

 

[FrantikRam]

Precisely. "If he never gets there we should question the wisdom of the trade" regardless of what Goff does in Detroit. That's because the two teams are night and day.

Having said that, I like our chances to at least 'get there'.



Sure it has everything to do with the Superbowl. That's the goal isn't it?

As far as "besides Stafford", 3 out of 5 ain't bad.
I don't know how good the run game or O line will be.

Absolutely. That's why every single move we make has everything to do with winning the Super Bowl. Nothing special about the Stafford deal versus other trades we've made (in terms of Super Bowl or bust) as evidenced by the fact that we most likely will have given up more draft capital for Ramsey and nobody here cared.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Reality is though that the Rams will not have a first round pick until 2024 and if God forbid something happened to Stafford healthwise, they would be screwed with little ammo to obtain a legitimate QB during the remainder of Donald's career and during the prime of Ramsey's.

So yeah, it was a big & risky trade and you make that kind of trade with the mind of winning a SB. McVay said it himself..."We are not trying to win a trade, we are trying to win a SB!"

Team needs don't influence player availability. The Rams could still have those picks and still be screwed at finding this legitimate QB. There are teams who kept their draft picks that took years to find or are still looking for one.

 

[Memphis Ram]

that's a hypothetical that doesn't fit in with reality.

.

We hope, but we don't know.

But, it is a very good question to consider for those who may expect one man to get a TEAM to a Super Bowl.

 

[FrantikRam]

I think the point that a lot of us are stuck on is how do you quantify a better team? We were consistently going to the playoffs with varying levels of success prior to the trade. There’s no reason to believe we wouldn’t have gone to the playoffs again this year with or without the trade. So if we gave up assets to only continue the same trajectory we were already on it will have been a waste. Pre season predictions and how comfortable you feel as a fan are nice but in reality results matter. We were a playoff team before the trade. If we’re not a Super Bowl team now what did we accomplish?

Counter point to this would be that if Goff continues to regress, we may not even have been a playoff team had we kept him. But we will never know.

 

[FrantikRam]

that's a convoluted way to get to the same answer.

.

So you do agree that it would have been Super Bowl or bust whether we traded Goff or kept him, making it weird for you to pointedly say that it's Super Bowl or bust because of the trade - since it was Super Bowl or bust either way - cool, sounds good.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Really? The expectation for the season after the Superbowl loss wasnt to win? That's not what I recall. I recall the season being a huge disappointment, the defense was deplorable, Wade fired etc. And even with the bumps and bruises, the Rams were knocking on the door of playing for the NFC Championship.
We're talking about expectations here, what team doesnt set expectations for the next season based on how the previous season went?

Win what? Games? Sure.
The Super Bowl? The expectation?

C'mon that's great for team motivation, but it's foolishness for anyone who understands that each team and each season and their circumstances are different.

The other teams weren't standing pat with only the Rams making adjustments.
They didn't sit back in awe and not develop strategies to thwart the team.
The 49ers starting QB didn't stay injured missing most of the following season.
Gurley's knee didn't magically improve.

If not for the Rams deciphering the Cowboys rush defense they might have even lost that playoff game.
And let's not even talk about the non pass interference call vs. the Saints.

NFL players will tell you that it takes a lot of things to go right for a team to get to and win a Super Bowl. It ain't as easy as adding a "stud" QB because there are some that don't have rings.

 

[CoachAllred]

I was always a Goff supporter and if he was still in horns, I would be to this day. That said, Goff never made me truly confident that I would know which Goff I would get from game to game - hell - even from play to play. I saw a kid with great accuracy and a will to get up and brush himself off. But I also saw a kid that simply looked lost at times and seemingly unaware that a defender would have the audacity to try to knock the ball from his hands. He would go from threading the needle to throwing unbelievable WTF passes. There was not only too much inconsistency, but it appeared that rather than improving, the inconsistent play was just getting more prevalent.

This ^^^^
Describes my thoughts on the entire situation, only difference is it describes it in a way I never could. ------ Post third grade articulation.

 

[NJRamsFan]

There is no reason to think we wouldn't have gone to the playoffs this year? What if our Defense drops to middle of the pack? You think we make the playoffs with the Offense we had last year and an NFL average Defense? I am not sure.

The thing is, it is impossible to quantify if it is a better team or not. I believe it is, but there is no definitive way. I just don't agree with the Arbitrary "SB or Bust" as there are WAY to many factors that go into winning a superbowl, and many if not most will have nothing to do with the trade.

Well first I don’t like the what if game. I could just as easily say what if our offense improved from last year and our defense didn’t drop to middle of the pack. It doesn’t really get us anywhere

I agree with you it’s impossible to quantify directly. Funny story I’m actually going to school for this kinda stuff and I spend a lot of time doing data analytics. Well long story short I recently completed a project regarding how impossible it is to compare teams from different years because there is essentially no baseline for comparison. Things like difficulty of competition, rule changes, health, etc make it all irrelevant year to to year.

I also agree that is unfair to put Super Bowl expectations on a single player as we see every year the NFL playoffs are a crapshoot. However I don’t think it was the fan base that put these expectations on Stafford it was the FO. Goff’s limitations aside how often do you see a former #1 overall pick at the ripe age of 26 who has been to 2 pro bowls a Super Bowl etc traded the year after leading his team to the second round of the playoffs? I don’t recall an even similar situation tbh. Now I get it those achievements didn’t happen all because of Goff just like Stafford can’t singlehandedly win us a Super Bowl. During certain years of Goff’s tenure the offense led the team and others like last year the defense bailed him out. Still it’s pretty unprecedented for a QB who has had this much relative success with no real injury history to be dealt at such a young age. Therefore I don’t think it’s unreasonable that the expectations for his replacement are also pretty unprecedented.

You can have lost faith in Goff all you want but you can’t justify a belief that we couldn’t continue to make the playoffs with him under the helm. Therefore I want his upgrade to take us further.

 

[Faceplant]

If the Rams didnt trade for Stafford, yes I would feel like the team was going to challenge for a Superbowl this season. Who wouldnt have?

Apparently a lot of people.... Including the people that matter.