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What Lions Fans Are Saying
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fearsomefour
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PAFS.....post apathetic Fisher syndrome.
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https://www.detroitlions.com/news/stats-pack-harrison-making-a-huge-difference-in-lions-run-defense
Harrison making a huge difference in Lions' run defense
Tim Twentyman
It never ceases to amaze how some things can completely change for a football team over the course of an NFL season.
Take for instance the Detroit Lions' rushing defense since acquiring defensive tackle Damon Harrison via trade with the New York Giants five weeks ago.
Before Harrison’s arrival, the Lions were struggling to stop the run. In three of the first four games the Lions were gashed for 160, 190 and 183 yards on the ground in losses to the Jets, 49ers and Cowboys. Detroit seemed to be giving up at least one long run on the ground per week. Without Harrison, opponents were averaging 139.3 yards per game on the ground.
Since his arrival, that number has gone down to 90.4. If we take out the Seattle game, which was Harrison’s first game played after arriving in Detroit that Wednesday, the number goes down to 69.0 rushing yards per game allowed over Detroit’s last four games.
The Lions have given up 148 yards on the ground total in the last three games. Twice over that stretch the longest gain for an opponent in a game was just 10 yards.
Head coach Matt Patricia has always approached defense from an inside out mentality of wanting to be strongest up the middle. Harrison has been Detroit’s best player on defense over the last five weeks, and he also seems to be having an impact on young defensive linemen Da’Shawn Hand and A’Shawn Robinson, who are playing pretty good ball right now. All three players are graded among the top 19 interior defensive linemen by Pro Football Focus.
“Obviously done a great job for us helping us inside,” Patricia said of the job Harrison’s done over the last five games. “Just being a guy that has great experience to be in the middle. He’s seen a lot of different blocks, he’s seen a lot of different schemes and maybe helped settle some things down for some of the younger players we are trying to play there and some of the new guys to the scheme.”
The Lions will certainly be challenged Sunday at Ford Field as they host the Los Angeles Rams and running back Todd Gurley, who is second in the NFL with 1,043 yards, and leads all running backs with 13 touchdown runs.
Here are some other statistics, both good and bad, for the Lions after 12 weeks of football:
https://www.prideofdetroit.com/2018/11/28/18115923/should-detroit-lions-tank-2018-season
Wednesday open thread: Are you rooting for the Detroit Lions to tank?
Would you rather see the team compete in the final month or position themselves with a better draft pick?
By Jeremy Reisman
It’s a debate Detroit Lions fans have been used to for years. After Thanksgiving, the Lions have typically made it clear they won’t be contending for a Super Bowl that specific year and the stakes in December tend to be much lower than in the fall. The games get less entertaining and the hype for the draft slowly starts to emerge.
Thankfully, for the past few years, the “tanking” debate had waited until at least Week 16 or 17 to rear its ugly head, but with the team taking a significant step back this year, it’s time to address it right here and now. The Lions’ ceiling is at 9-7, and while that may slide them into a Wild Card spot, seeing this team rattle off five straight wins is beyond a pipe dream at this point. So today’s Question of the Day is:
Are you rooting for the Lions to tank in the final five weeks of the season?
My answer: No. Never.
I’m never going to tell someone how to be a fan or the “right” way to be a football fan. I know that those rooting for tanking have their heads in the right place. They simply want what’s best for the team in the long-term. A higher draft pick probably improves the team’s ability to compete in the future.
However, given the randomness and unpredictability of the draft, I think the improvement is nearly negligible. A team that is truly going to compete for championships isn’t going to do so based on one top-five pick. They have to do it with a string of solid drafts and free agency moves. So if general manager Bob Quinn is the right man for the job, he should be able to turn around the franchise whether he’s picking fourth or if he’s picking 14th.
So what small improvement the Lions get from a slightly higher draft pick based on “tanking” is not worth it to me. It’s not worth it to root for the Lions to lose, because losing is painful no matter what the scenario. When the Lions lose, we spend a week talking about sending a franchise quarterback away and putting the team in salary cap hell.
When the Lions lose, we scream about firing a head coach 10 months into the job and hitting the reset button yet again. When the Lions lose, we see Alex Trebek dunk on the Lions for no good reason. When the Lions lose, we see Bears fan setting celebration dances to “Africa,” and that is NOT okay.
We only get 16 of these games every year, and so I like to make the most of them. I like to see small improvements throughout the year to see signs that the Lions’ future may actually indeed be bright. Tanking is just rooting for more darkness in the hopes a bright future is behind it. Haven’t we had enough darkness already?
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Want to tank a season? Call so many bubble screens that the defense just lines up next to the WRs on every play. Don’t have routes that go past 5 yards off the line.
Harrison making a huge difference in Lions' run defense
Tim Twentyman
It never ceases to amaze how some things can completely change for a football team over the course of an NFL season.
Take for instance the Detroit Lions' rushing defense since acquiring defensive tackle Damon Harrison via trade with the New York Giants five weeks ago.
Before Harrison’s arrival, the Lions were struggling to stop the run. In three of the first four games the Lions were gashed for 160, 190 and 183 yards on the ground in losses to the Jets, 49ers and Cowboys. Detroit seemed to be giving up at least one long run on the ground per week. Without Harrison, opponents were averaging 139.3 yards per game on the ground.
Since his arrival, that number has gone down to 90.4. If we take out the Seattle game, which was Harrison’s first game played after arriving in Detroit that Wednesday, the number goes down to 69.0 rushing yards per game allowed over Detroit’s last four games.
The Lions have given up 148 yards on the ground total in the last three games. Twice over that stretch the longest gain for an opponent in a game was just 10 yards.
Head coach Matt Patricia has always approached defense from an inside out mentality of wanting to be strongest up the middle. Harrison has been Detroit’s best player on defense over the last five weeks, and he also seems to be having an impact on young defensive linemen Da’Shawn Hand and A’Shawn Robinson, who are playing pretty good ball right now. All three players are graded among the top 19 interior defensive linemen by Pro Football Focus.
“Obviously done a great job for us helping us inside,” Patricia said of the job Harrison’s done over the last five games. “Just being a guy that has great experience to be in the middle. He’s seen a lot of different blocks, he’s seen a lot of different schemes and maybe helped settle some things down for some of the younger players we are trying to play there and some of the new guys to the scheme.”
The Lions will certainly be challenged Sunday at Ford Field as they host the Los Angeles Rams and running back Todd Gurley, who is second in the NFL with 1,043 yards, and leads all running backs with 13 touchdown runs.
Here are some other statistics, both good and bad, for the Lions after 12 weeks of football:
- The Lions rank 23rd in total offense and 13th in total defense.
- Detroit ranks 24th with a turnover differential of minus-six. Sunday’s opponent, the Los Angeles Rams, rank third in the league with a turnover differential of plus-11.
- It’s not surprising that Detroit ranks No. 1 in the NFL in field goal percentage against. Opponents are making just 61.9 percent of their field goals this season against Detroit.
- Detroit’s 32 sacks on the year rank ninth in the NFL.
- Quarterback Matthew Stafford has three 300-yard passing performances in 11 games this season. Rams quarterback Jared Goff has seven such performances in 11 games.
- Opponents are averaging nearly double the league average per punt return on Detroit’s special teams. The league average is 8.6 yards per punt return. The Lions are allowing 16.8 yards per punt return.
https://www.prideofdetroit.com/2018/11/28/18115923/should-detroit-lions-tank-2018-season
Wednesday open thread: Are you rooting for the Detroit Lions to tank?
Would you rather see the team compete in the final month or position themselves with a better draft pick?
By Jeremy Reisman
It’s a debate Detroit Lions fans have been used to for years. After Thanksgiving, the Lions have typically made it clear they won’t be contending for a Super Bowl that specific year and the stakes in December tend to be much lower than in the fall. The games get less entertaining and the hype for the draft slowly starts to emerge.
Thankfully, for the past few years, the “tanking” debate had waited until at least Week 16 or 17 to rear its ugly head, but with the team taking a significant step back this year, it’s time to address it right here and now. The Lions’ ceiling is at 9-7, and while that may slide them into a Wild Card spot, seeing this team rattle off five straight wins is beyond a pipe dream at this point. So today’s Question of the Day is:
Are you rooting for the Lions to tank in the final five weeks of the season?
My answer: No. Never.
I’m never going to tell someone how to be a fan or the “right” way to be a football fan. I know that those rooting for tanking have their heads in the right place. They simply want what’s best for the team in the long-term. A higher draft pick probably improves the team’s ability to compete in the future.
However, given the randomness and unpredictability of the draft, I think the improvement is nearly negligible. A team that is truly going to compete for championships isn’t going to do so based on one top-five pick. They have to do it with a string of solid drafts and free agency moves. So if general manager Bob Quinn is the right man for the job, he should be able to turn around the franchise whether he’s picking fourth or if he’s picking 14th.
So what small improvement the Lions get from a slightly higher draft pick based on “tanking” is not worth it to me. It’s not worth it to root for the Lions to lose, because losing is painful no matter what the scenario. When the Lions lose, we spend a week talking about sending a franchise quarterback away and putting the team in salary cap hell.
When the Lions lose, we scream about firing a head coach 10 months into the job and hitting the reset button yet again. When the Lions lose, we see Alex Trebek dunk on the Lions for no good reason. When the Lions lose, we see Bears fan setting celebration dances to “Africa,” and that is NOT okay.
We only get 16 of these games every year, and so I like to make the most of them. I like to see small improvements throughout the year to see signs that the Lions’ future may actually indeed be bright. Tanking is just rooting for more darkness in the hopes a bright future is behind it. Haven’t we had enough darkness already?
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Want to tank a season? Call so many bubble screens that the defense just lines up next to the WRs on every play. Don’t have routes that go past 5 yards off the line.
Psycho_X
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snackdaddy
Who's your snackdaddy?
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Its still early in McVay's career, but so far he has been able to do what Jeff Fisher had trouble with. Taking care of business against the lesser teams.
Last season, the early losses to the Redskins and Seahawks were not upsets. Those teams were pretty good at the time and we were still finding our way.
The next two losses were against the eventual NFC title game teams. The last one of course was a meaningless throw away game. This year's lone loss was against the current number one team in the rankings.
McVay has been very good at keeping this team focused. I don't see anything changing this Sunday.
Psycho_X
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see thats WHY i dont believe those were legitimate comments Lions fans made.I think they were made up by some beat writer.i mean come on,every Lions fan knows what your friend does and knows that will happen.this is the Lions we are talking about.
LesBaker
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I've never liked a Broncos uni, ever.
But the Bengals win the ugliest uni contest for sure.
This could be it's own thread. I say that because on the offenses side of the ball they simply have an seemingly answer for anything. Yet on defense it's the opposite.
And of course ST's is always well coached and prepared.
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Makes me crazy that one their primary colors is "Honolulu Blue".
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Lol at that Lions site. They have a thread titled “Matt Stafford is the suckiest suck to ever suck”. It has 4800 replies with zero likes. Are they going to be are over the factory of sadness when the Browns turn it around?
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- #72
http://www.lionsredzone.com/threads/ok-ill-say-it.6981/
Ok, I'll say it!...
The Rams game is exactly the type of game the Lions win! Like Carolina, GB and NE...they will pull a couple out just to f up the draft. It's in the franchise DNA. they Blow the season with a capital FU, then win a few on the way out just to instill that fake hope going forward into next year and get another lackluster draft pick. You can't define the ineptness of this team, you can only choose to accept it.
Stafford goes nuts. If Stafford gets traded to JAX which rumor has it is happening then this prediction is null and void.
TAKE THE OVER
Lions 42
Rams 41
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They have absolutely no chance to even make this game look respectable. It's going to be so ugly. This game will sting like the Michigan OSU game stung.
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No MJ, probably no KOJ, Golden Taint gone. Not sure how the Lions are going to score enough points to beat the Rams. I have tickets to this game, but I don't think I want to drive out to Michigan to watch them lose by 30 points. I might just burn them in effigy.
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I am not sure what the over is, but no way Lions score more than 17 points in this game. That Ram DL is going to get 5 sacks. I wouldn't be shocked if we see another multiple INT game from Stafford as we gets happy feet from the pressure in his face all game from the porous OL , and JBC trying to dink and dunk to Riddick every other play.
The only was the over will be hit is if the Rams blow up the score, which they might.
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I have 55-17
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https://www.prideofdetroit.com/2018...ons-offensive-line-isnt-much-better-than-2017
Notes: Detroit Lions’ offensive line isn’t much better than last year
The improvement just isn’t there right now.
By Jeremy Reisman
:format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/62422421/1057417828.jpg.0.jpg)
Photo by Adam Bettcher/Getty Images
If there was one reason Detroit Lions fans were looking at 2018 as being a year the offense finally reaches its full potential, it was the perceived improvement of the offensive line. With T.J. Lang healthy, Frank Ragnow manning the left guard position and a brand-new offensive line coach, Detroit was running thin on excuses for average, or even above-average offensive play. This was supposed to be an elite offense.
And while it seemed like those changes actually made a big difference at first—the Lions only gave up three sacks in the first three weeks of the season and finally started to establish a running game early—that progress only lasted a few weeks.
Their offensive line struggled against the likes of the Bears and Vikings, rendering their running game moot and making their pass protection look foolish. Detroit has now given up at least three sacks in five of 11 contests and they’ve been held below 4.0 yards per carry in six games.
Entering the season, Pro Football Focus predicted this offensive line to be the eighth best in the NFL. 12 weeks into the season, PFF now ranks them just 17th. While you’d think that was an improvement from last year, it barely is. PFF ranked the Lions’ offensive line performance in 2017 as 19th.
Obviously, the Lions have had some improvement. The Lions’ running game is at least close to average after being dead last in most statistical categories last year. However, the offensive line needs to play a lot better before they’re considered a “good” unit.
View: https://twitter.com/steeztabor/status/1067794243811508227?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1067794243811508227&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.prideofdetroit.com%2F2018%2F11%2F28%2F18116199%2Fdetroit-lions-offensive-line-isnt-much-better-than-2017
View: https://twitter.com/NFLMatchup/status/1067816928411090944?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1067816928411090944&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.prideofdetroit.com%2F2018%2F11%2F28%2F18116199%2Fdetroit-lions-offensive-line-isnt-much-better-than-2017
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I would add Waldron to your list. Working with the Rams now and with the Patriots in the past … makes a lot of sense.
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I’m a little nervous to take on a young coach/coordinator from the Rams right now, since it’s obvious McVay runs the show.
Ok, I'll say it!...
The Rams game is exactly the type of game the Lions win! Like Carolina, GB and NE...they will pull a couple out just to f up the draft. It's in the franchise DNA. they Blow the season with a capital FU, then win a few on the way out just to instill that fake hope going forward into next year and get another lackluster draft pick. You can't define the ineptness of this team, you can only choose to accept it.
Stafford goes nuts. If Stafford gets traded to JAX which rumor has it is happening then this prediction is null and void.
TAKE THE OVER
Lions 42
Rams 41
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They have absolutely no chance to even make this game look respectable. It's going to be so ugly. This game will sting like the Michigan OSU game stung.
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No MJ, probably no KOJ, Golden Taint gone. Not sure how the Lions are going to score enough points to beat the Rams. I have tickets to this game, but I don't think I want to drive out to Michigan to watch them lose by 30 points. I might just burn them in effigy.
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I am not sure what the over is, but no way Lions score more than 17 points in this game. That Ram DL is going to get 5 sacks. I wouldn't be shocked if we see another multiple INT game from Stafford as we gets happy feet from the pressure in his face all game from the porous OL , and JBC trying to dink and dunk to Riddick every other play.
The only was the over will be hit is if the Rams blow up the score, which they might.
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I have 55-17
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https://www.prideofdetroit.com/2018...ons-offensive-line-isnt-much-better-than-2017
Notes: Detroit Lions’ offensive line isn’t much better than last year
The improvement just isn’t there right now.
By Jeremy Reisman
Photo by Adam Bettcher/Getty Images
If there was one reason Detroit Lions fans were looking at 2018 as being a year the offense finally reaches its full potential, it was the perceived improvement of the offensive line. With T.J. Lang healthy, Frank Ragnow manning the left guard position and a brand-new offensive line coach, Detroit was running thin on excuses for average, or even above-average offensive play. This was supposed to be an elite offense.
And while it seemed like those changes actually made a big difference at first—the Lions only gave up three sacks in the first three weeks of the season and finally started to establish a running game early—that progress only lasted a few weeks.
Their offensive line struggled against the likes of the Bears and Vikings, rendering their running game moot and making their pass protection look foolish. Detroit has now given up at least three sacks in five of 11 contests and they’ve been held below 4.0 yards per carry in six games.
Entering the season, Pro Football Focus predicted this offensive line to be the eighth best in the NFL. 12 weeks into the season, PFF now ranks them just 17th. While you’d think that was an improvement from last year, it barely is. PFF ranked the Lions’ offensive line performance in 2017 as 19th.
Obviously, the Lions have had some improvement. The Lions’ running game is at least close to average after being dead last in most statistical categories last year. However, the offensive line needs to play a lot better before they’re considered a “good” unit.
- PFF provided the grades for all 32 first-round picks in the 2018 NFL Draft. Frank Ragnow’s grade (65.1) ranks 18th among first rounders, and, as PFF notes, Ragnow is coming off his best game as a pass blocker.
- The Lions seem to have a knack for propping up their opponents to NFC Player of the Week levels:
- Want more offensive coordinator candidates in case the Lions drop Jim Bob Cooter this year? Nate Atkins of MLive has an exhaustive list of 15 candidates.
View: https://twitter.com/steeztabor/status/1067794243811508227?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1067794243811508227&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.prideofdetroit.com%2F2018%2F11%2F28%2F18116199%2Fdetroit-lions-offensive-line-isnt-much-better-than-2017
- The Lions’ pass defense is bad. The Lions’ pass defense is also bad when they try to blitz.
View: https://twitter.com/NFLMatchup/status/1067816928411090944?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1067816928411090944&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.prideofdetroit.com%2F2018%2F11%2F28%2F18116199%2Fdetroit-lions-offensive-line-isnt-much-better-than-2017
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I would add Waldron to your list. Working with the Rams now and with the Patriots in the past … makes a lot of sense.
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I’m a little nervous to take on a young coach/coordinator from the Rams right now, since it’s obvious McVay runs the show.
LesBaker
Mr. Savant
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Mackeyser
Supernovas are where gold forms; the only place.
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Depends if Talib is back.
if not, I expect a few deep shots and maybe a closer game early.
If Talib's back, I would hope the game gets away from the Lions early and we rest starters starting early in the 3rd quarter.
if not, I expect a few deep shots and maybe a closer game early.
If Talib's back, I would hope the game gets away from the Lions early and we rest starters starting early in the 3rd quarter.
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Farr Be It
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Elmgrovegnome
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They get tired of doing someone else's bidding. They want more freedom, or need to get out from a head coaches grasp. In Belicheat's case, it's easy to understand. The Patriots success gives assistants an over inflated ego, and it probably feels good to escape Bill's control freak atmosphere, and maybe, just maybe some of them didn't like being associated with cheaters.
In the Rams case, McVay supposedly gives assistants freedom to do their jobs.
I disagreed here. Then I saw the picture of the grey uniform. What happened to the Barry Sanders era uniform. I loved that design. It was one of my favorites, possibly second favorite after the Rams.
Wish! Hold up there with that crazy talk. Ill give you the lose to the skins, But the refs took that first Seattle game and handed it to Pete. The Rams should have won. It started when Earl Thomas smacked the ball from Gurley's grasp and it rolled out of bounds, and the refs have Sheattle the ball on the 25, even though it never crossed the goal line.
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Good analysis of the Rams offense by former QB Dan Orlovsky. He was drafted by the Lions and later on signed by the Rams for the 2017 season but then released before the season began.
View: https://twitter.com/Lions/status/1068163171788046337
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https://www.freep.com/story/sports/...lions-aaron-donald-2014-nfl-draft/2140517002/
Inside Detroit Lions' decision to pass on Aaron Donald in NFL draft
Dave Birkett, Detroit Free Press
Photo: Tony Avelar, AP
All the decision makers were there, bunkered inside a conference room at the Detroit Lions’ Allen Park training facility a few days before the 2014 draft.
General manager Martin Mayhew. Head coach Jim Caldwell. Even owner Martha Firestone Ford sat in a room as coaches and scouts ticked down a list of players the Lions could take with the 10th overall pick.
Eric Ebron had his supporters; assistant head coach Ron Prince gave an impassioned plea on the tight end’s behalf. Some in the room marveled at what Odell Beckham could do. And when the talk turned to Aaron Donald, the undersized Pitt defensive tackle had his advocates, too.
“I was starting to get cranked,” Jim Washburn, the Lions’ defensive line coach at the time, recalled in a phone interview with the Free Press. “And I said this guy is a Jedi. Everybody looked puzzled and Mrs. Ford was sitting there and she couldn’t figure out what the heck a Jedi was. And I said a Jedi, he’s like Yoda. It’s like a Jedi, they see things before they happen, and I said Aaron Donald sees things before they happen. And he’s John Randle. Maybe when it’s all said and done, he’s better than John Randle.”
Washburn fell in love with Donald for obvious reasons, and early on in the process. I remember him gushing about the defensive tackle on a plane flight to Mobile, Ala., that January for the Senior Bowl.
Donald had 28.5 tackles for loss and 11 sacks in his senior season at Pitt and pulled what Washburn called “the trifecta of college football.”
Along with his ridiculous season, Donald dominated the Senior Bowl — “I’ve been there 20 times and there’s never been a performance like that, ever,” Washburn said — destroyed the NFL combine (where he ran a 4.68-second 40-yard dash) and for good measure followed that up with another eye-popping performance at his pro day.
Washburn and fellow defensive line coach Kris Kocurek were smitten, but they ran into some resistance in the room.
Photo: The Associated Press
“That’s one I’ll never forget,” Washburn said. “They had one guy there that said, ‘What in the world are we going to do with a little guy like that? I thought we were trying to get away from little guys.’ I said, ‘Well you make the exception to the exception,’ and then I went off and stood up and Kris Kocurek did, too. We went on and on about Aaron Donald.”
The Lions wanted big, long defensive tackles for Caldwell’s new defense, and Donald, at a shade under 6 feet tall, certainly did not fit the bill.
Washburn did not want to publicly identify who in the Lions’ personnel department torpedoed Donald as the potential pick.
“I used to push guys. I’d cheat by making a highlight film, putting selective films together (for others to watch),” Washburn said. “And you didn’t have to (with Donald). … Go watch his game against Georgia Tech. They gave him these giant splits between the guards and center.
It was a license to kill. It was unbelievable. Every time I watched film on him — Kris and I watched separate, we watched 12 games, 13 counting the Senior Bowl — and every time we watched him I would get up and say, ‘Dang, come in here Kris. ... Caldwell. Look at this.’ Just like unbelievable.”
Washburn’s infatuation with Donald was purely as a player — “The best defensive player (I’ve seen) in the 20 years I was in football,” Washburn said — but there were other practical reasons for the Lions to target Donald in the draft.
Starting defensive tackles Ndamukong Suh and Nick Fairley were entering the final year of their contracts in 2014, and while the Lions hoped to re-sign Suh, there was no guarantee the two sides would get a deal done.
A Suh-Donald-Fairley trio would have been torture on opposing offenses — the Lions, even without Donald, had one of the best defenses in the NFL that season — and Donald would have given the Lions insurance in case Suh left in free agency.
The Lions, of course, took Ebron with the 10th pick in the draft, Suh signed with the Miami Dolphins the following spring, and Donald went 13th overall to the then-St. Louis Rams, where he’s since developed into the single most dominant defensive player in football.
A three-time first-team All-Pro, Donald leads the NFL with 14.5 sacks, and on Sunday he and Suh, now teammates on a Rams team that has since moved to Los Angeles, will give Lions fans a glimpse of what might have been had the team made him and not Ebron the 10th pick of the 2014 draft.
“It’s really unique to have two excellent (interior defensive linemen),” Lions offensive coordinator Jim Bob Cooter said. “They both play in multiple spots. Suh I’ve seen basically all over the line. And they have different strengths, which gives them some value. I’m sure they look at it as attacking the offense or attacking the offensive line.
How Donald and Suh work together, maybe it’s a game, maybe it’s two one-on-ones, maybe it’s two different sides of the line. Sometimes you see one of those guys on a tight end. They got a lot of talent, they got a lot of really good players and they’re playing at a really high level, they’re getting after the quarterback, pressuring the quarterback and at the end of the day creating a lot of turnovers.”
Washburn said Kocurek, now the Dolphins’ defensive line coach, once asked if he’s still haunted by missing out on Donald.
Photo: Kelvin Kuo, Associated Press
The answer, Washburn said, is unequivocally yes.
In 2014, the only season Suh and Donald surely would have played together in Detroit, the Lions went 11-5 and lost in the first round of the playoffs. Washburn said he has no doubt the Lions beat the Dallas Cowboys in their wildcard game that year if Donald, the defensive rookie of the year that season, is in Detroit, and he believes the Lions would have "killed” the Green Bay Packers if they advanced to face them later in the playoffs.
“He’s the premier player in football in my opinion,” Washburn said. “You make the exception for the exception and the guy ... there shot him down.”
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Of course it didn't happen -- this is the Lions were talking about.
--------------
With the "Keystone Cops" way of handling things is it any wonder they haven't won a championship in 61 yrs and have never even been to one Superbowl?
-------------
You are talking about the disfunctional Lions. Didn't Matt Millen took 3 receivers in the 1st round on three different draft once? And he still had a job for all three drafts. Detroit, just like the city has been in decline and do not know when they will ever get better.
-------------
https://247sports.com/nfl/detroit-l...en-shot-down-drafting-Aaron-Donald-125519569/
What I noticed while watching film of Donald that stood out was his strength. The ability to hold the point of attack and even penetrate with power with his quickness was extremely unusual. The very first thing I look for in ANY DT prospect is power and ability to hold his ground.
If he ain’t got that, I’ve got no use for him. If you want a quick guy who gets pushed back, just move a damn defensive end down. Donald was special. And its his strength that really allows him to fully utilize his quickness. When you are genuinely afraid of a guys power, you get caught setting for power, and he blows right by them.
------------
100th Percentile 40 Yard Dash
99th Percentile Speed Score (weight adjusted for position)
85th Percentile Burst Score
99th Percentile Agility Score
92nd Percentile Bench Press
30 Sacks
66 Tackles for Loss
115 Solo Tackles
Production as a freshmen
ACC DPOY & All-American
Football scouts, coaches, and front-office personnel are intellectually inferior neanderthals.
--------------
Aaron Donald is amazing, the best 3-tech UT since Warren Sapp. But not for a second did I think drafting him was realistic option without Schwartz no longer here. I mean, we WERE still fresh off the heels of drafting 2 1st RD DT's (Suh & Fairley) in back-to-back years. So at what point do you stop drafting DT's in the 1st RD? I mean we complain when we draft TE's in the 1st RD.
Sorry guys, I know some people luv'd A.Donald coming out of College. But without Schwartz anymore... the chances were slim to none. Different coach, different philosophy.
It's like Eric Mangini said yesterday on First things First. Anytime you have a HC change... "there's radical things that happen when you make that switch. It affects scouting, free agency, it affects the types of players that are there because the new HC is gonna want his guys. It affects the Offensive Philosophy, the defensive philosophy.. so all that continuity is gone".
-------------
I was all in on Sammy Watkins (whoops).
View: https://twitter.com/Lions/status/1068163171788046337
-------------------------------
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/...lions-aaron-donald-2014-nfl-draft/2140517002/
Inside Detroit Lions' decision to pass on Aaron Donald in NFL draft
Dave Birkett, Detroit Free Press
Photo: Tony Avelar, AP
All the decision makers were there, bunkered inside a conference room at the Detroit Lions’ Allen Park training facility a few days before the 2014 draft.
General manager Martin Mayhew. Head coach Jim Caldwell. Even owner Martha Firestone Ford sat in a room as coaches and scouts ticked down a list of players the Lions could take with the 10th overall pick.
Eric Ebron had his supporters; assistant head coach Ron Prince gave an impassioned plea on the tight end’s behalf. Some in the room marveled at what Odell Beckham could do. And when the talk turned to Aaron Donald, the undersized Pitt defensive tackle had his advocates, too.
“I was starting to get cranked,” Jim Washburn, the Lions’ defensive line coach at the time, recalled in a phone interview with the Free Press. “And I said this guy is a Jedi. Everybody looked puzzled and Mrs. Ford was sitting there and she couldn’t figure out what the heck a Jedi was. And I said a Jedi, he’s like Yoda. It’s like a Jedi, they see things before they happen, and I said Aaron Donald sees things before they happen. And he’s John Randle. Maybe when it’s all said and done, he’s better than John Randle.”
Washburn fell in love with Donald for obvious reasons, and early on in the process. I remember him gushing about the defensive tackle on a plane flight to Mobile, Ala., that January for the Senior Bowl.
Donald had 28.5 tackles for loss and 11 sacks in his senior season at Pitt and pulled what Washburn called “the trifecta of college football.”
Along with his ridiculous season, Donald dominated the Senior Bowl — “I’ve been there 20 times and there’s never been a performance like that, ever,” Washburn said — destroyed the NFL combine (where he ran a 4.68-second 40-yard dash) and for good measure followed that up with another eye-popping performance at his pro day.
Washburn and fellow defensive line coach Kris Kocurek were smitten, but they ran into some resistance in the room.
Photo: The Associated Press
“That’s one I’ll never forget,” Washburn said. “They had one guy there that said, ‘What in the world are we going to do with a little guy like that? I thought we were trying to get away from little guys.’ I said, ‘Well you make the exception to the exception,’ and then I went off and stood up and Kris Kocurek did, too. We went on and on about Aaron Donald.”
The Lions wanted big, long defensive tackles for Caldwell’s new defense, and Donald, at a shade under 6 feet tall, certainly did not fit the bill.
Washburn did not want to publicly identify who in the Lions’ personnel department torpedoed Donald as the potential pick.
“I used to push guys. I’d cheat by making a highlight film, putting selective films together (for others to watch),” Washburn said. “And you didn’t have to (with Donald). … Go watch his game against Georgia Tech. They gave him these giant splits between the guards and center.
It was a license to kill. It was unbelievable. Every time I watched film on him — Kris and I watched separate, we watched 12 games, 13 counting the Senior Bowl — and every time we watched him I would get up and say, ‘Dang, come in here Kris. ... Caldwell. Look at this.’ Just like unbelievable.”
Washburn’s infatuation with Donald was purely as a player — “The best defensive player (I’ve seen) in the 20 years I was in football,” Washburn said — but there were other practical reasons for the Lions to target Donald in the draft.
Starting defensive tackles Ndamukong Suh and Nick Fairley were entering the final year of their contracts in 2014, and while the Lions hoped to re-sign Suh, there was no guarantee the two sides would get a deal done.
A Suh-Donald-Fairley trio would have been torture on opposing offenses — the Lions, even without Donald, had one of the best defenses in the NFL that season — and Donald would have given the Lions insurance in case Suh left in free agency.
The Lions, of course, took Ebron with the 10th pick in the draft, Suh signed with the Miami Dolphins the following spring, and Donald went 13th overall to the then-St. Louis Rams, where he’s since developed into the single most dominant defensive player in football.
A three-time first-team All-Pro, Donald leads the NFL with 14.5 sacks, and on Sunday he and Suh, now teammates on a Rams team that has since moved to Los Angeles, will give Lions fans a glimpse of what might have been had the team made him and not Ebron the 10th pick of the 2014 draft.
“It’s really unique to have two excellent (interior defensive linemen),” Lions offensive coordinator Jim Bob Cooter said. “They both play in multiple spots. Suh I’ve seen basically all over the line. And they have different strengths, which gives them some value. I’m sure they look at it as attacking the offense or attacking the offensive line.
How Donald and Suh work together, maybe it’s a game, maybe it’s two one-on-ones, maybe it’s two different sides of the line. Sometimes you see one of those guys on a tight end. They got a lot of talent, they got a lot of really good players and they’re playing at a really high level, they’re getting after the quarterback, pressuring the quarterback and at the end of the day creating a lot of turnovers.”
Washburn said Kocurek, now the Dolphins’ defensive line coach, once asked if he’s still haunted by missing out on Donald.
Photo: Kelvin Kuo, Associated Press
The answer, Washburn said, is unequivocally yes.
In 2014, the only season Suh and Donald surely would have played together in Detroit, the Lions went 11-5 and lost in the first round of the playoffs. Washburn said he has no doubt the Lions beat the Dallas Cowboys in their wildcard game that year if Donald, the defensive rookie of the year that season, is in Detroit, and he believes the Lions would have "killed” the Green Bay Packers if they advanced to face them later in the playoffs.
“He’s the premier player in football in my opinion,” Washburn said. “You make the exception for the exception and the guy ... there shot him down.”
---------------
Of course it didn't happen -- this is the Lions were talking about.
--------------
With the "Keystone Cops" way of handling things is it any wonder they haven't won a championship in 61 yrs and have never even been to one Superbowl?
-------------
You are talking about the disfunctional Lions. Didn't Matt Millen took 3 receivers in the 1st round on three different draft once? And he still had a job for all three drafts. Detroit, just like the city has been in decline and do not know when they will ever get better.
-------------
https://247sports.com/nfl/detroit-l...en-shot-down-drafting-Aaron-Donald-125519569/
What I noticed while watching film of Donald that stood out was his strength. The ability to hold the point of attack and even penetrate with power with his quickness was extremely unusual. The very first thing I look for in ANY DT prospect is power and ability to hold his ground.
If he ain’t got that, I’ve got no use for him. If you want a quick guy who gets pushed back, just move a damn defensive end down. Donald was special. And its his strength that really allows him to fully utilize his quickness. When you are genuinely afraid of a guys power, you get caught setting for power, and he blows right by them.
------------
100th Percentile 40 Yard Dash
99th Percentile Speed Score (weight adjusted for position)
85th Percentile Burst Score
99th Percentile Agility Score
92nd Percentile Bench Press
30 Sacks
66 Tackles for Loss
115 Solo Tackles
Production as a freshmen
ACC DPOY & All-American
Football scouts, coaches, and front-office personnel are intellectually inferior neanderthals.
--------------
Aaron Donald is amazing, the best 3-tech UT since Warren Sapp. But not for a second did I think drafting him was realistic option without Schwartz no longer here. I mean, we WERE still fresh off the heels of drafting 2 1st RD DT's (Suh & Fairley) in back-to-back years. So at what point do you stop drafting DT's in the 1st RD? I mean we complain when we draft TE's in the 1st RD.
Sorry guys, I know some people luv'd A.Donald coming out of College. But without Schwartz anymore... the chances were slim to none. Different coach, different philosophy.
It's like Eric Mangini said yesterday on First things First. Anytime you have a HC change... "there's radical things that happen when you make that switch. It affects scouting, free agency, it affects the types of players that are there because the new HC is gonna want his guys. It affects the Offensive Philosophy, the defensive philosophy.. so all that continuity is gone".
-------------
I was all in on Sammy Watkins (whoops).