What is wrong with Jared Goff?!?

[FrantikRam]

Goff's struggles started after the bye in 2018 with a healthy Gurley and our elite OL.

From week 13 to the Super Bowl he was the same Goff we see now. Bad game and we win, great game and we win, awful game and lose, looks like a HoF. We saw all that in the last five regular season games and then the three playoff games.

We were even 5-3 in those games, which is reflective of the state of the current team. Against Detroit, Gurley tore it up and he still struggled.

I'm sick of the lack of talent excuses - we have a top 5 group of WRs/TEs

 

[Ellard80]

I have sat on the sidelines for a few days, reading all the Goff and McVay posts, and trying to figure out what has happened. And here's my take... First and foremost is that we no longer have Todd Gurley leading this team. After the Super Bowl, I actually posted that "this is Jared Goff's team now". Unfortunately, Goff has not been able to be consistent from week to week, and the offense still has no leader. The wide receivers are good, but if the defense can take away Woods and Kupp, what do the Rams have left? The running backs don't make many catches, and I'd put that on McVay. And speaking of the running backs... I don't mind the committee approach, but I was hoping that a leader would emerge at some point. It seems like one of them gets going, and then gets taken out. I would also put that on McVay. Can we please try some different plays? A few years ago, it seemed like McVay kept the defense on their toes... we never knew what was coming next. Now, it seems like the same old plays, over and over. And Goff? He is trying to do too much. He is forcing his throws, or overthinking the play, and he is making mental mistakes. IMHO... the team needs to get back to the running game, with passes mixed in (obviously). And can they please try a few screens or draw plays? Anything different, at this point. If we can't score, punt, and let the D do it's job. I would rather see a 20-17 Rams win, than a shit show of mistakes. The team is still very good, and playoffs are just around the corner... just need to try a couple of different approaches. PS - The Rams DO NOT need to get rid of Goff!!! They just need to help him.

this is a solid post - but one thing I have to disagree with - we might run more screen plays than any other team in the nfl.

 

[ramfan46]

I don't expect perfection, but I do think he needs to be better protecting the ball. That might mean a few more sacks and some throw aways, that's fine with me. I'm still waiting to see a top tier performance against a good to great D. He can tear up bad D's consistently, but you don't face too many of those in the playoffs. Seems like the league has found a counter to Goff's counter. Can he find that next level to keep a D off balance?
He and Sean need to utilize the RB in the passing game. It gets the RB out in space and you can get the ball out quick. Todd used to do damage after a 3-5 yard check down.

 

[Mojo Ram]

OT:
I'd like to see Higs get healthy with that elbow/hand injury. That's a big target the O has been missing lately. He's been playing but hasn't been a factor.

 

[Mojo Ram]

He and Sean need to utilize the RB in the passing game. It gets the RB out in space and you can get the ball out quick. Todd used to do damage after a 3-5 yard check down.

+1
Hendo and Akers have decent hands.

 

[RamDino]

Agree with all of the above... Higbee was a beast in the passing game last year... what happened? And what about Everett? What about Van Jefferson? What about hitting the running backs out in space as mentioned above? Draws, rollouts, 12 personnel, etc. It is time to try something different! Goff has carved up plenty of defenses in the past 4 years (see Tampa Bay 2 weeks ago!), but he can't be expected to carry the team every week, especially when the running game is stalled. The 49ers sat back and only rushed 4, they completely took Kupp out of the game, and very few other receivers were open. And Goff and McVay had no answers for that.

 

[JKBOGEN]

Not sure. I actually heard that song from a Mass Effect: Andromeda commercial on YouTube. Researched the song, and fell in love with it.

Oh boy Andromeda...

 

[Memento]

Oh boy Andromeda...

Don't shame me; I actually liked it. Still play it, and I'm hoping it gets a sequel that ties it into things.

 

[LARams_1963]

Don't shame me; I actually liked it. Still play it, and I'm hoping it gets a sequel that ties it into things.

I LOVED Andromeda! Second only at the time to Horizon Zero Dawn as far as storyline.

 

[dieterbrock]

Goff's struggles started after the bye in 2018 with a healthy Gurley and our elite OL.

From week 13 to the Super Bowl he was the same Goff we see now. Bad game and we win, great game and we win, awful game and lose, looks like a HoF. We saw all that in the last five regular season games and then the three playoff games.

We were even 5-3 in those games, which is reflective of the state of the current team. Against Detroit, Gurley tore it up and he still struggled.

I'm sick of the lack of talent excuses - we have a top 5 group of WRs/TEs

A healthy Gurley who didn’t play the last 2 games of the season when Goff had 5 TDs no INT and a 120 rating?

 

[FrantikRam]

A healthy Gurley who didn’t play the last 2 games of the season when Goff had 5 TDs no INT and a 120 rating?

Sure we can cherry pick. Like I mentioned before, Goff was terrible against Detroit when Gurley tore them up on the ground. He was also pretty poor against the Cowboys in the playoffs considering how dominant the run game was.

So that cuts both ways.

Which was my point.

Goff's inconsistency started with that Lions game and continued on for the 8 games to end that season. (including the playoffs) - you'll notice how I described his inconsistent play as ranging between awful and HoF level play - so in a way you bringing up his last two games helped make my point.

In fact, since it was 8 games to finish that year, we can break it down:

2018 last 8 (includes playoffs): 5-3 - had healthy Gurley for 4 games (since he looked great against Dallas, I'm calling the healthy games Det, Chi, Phl, Dal), no Kupp, elite OL, play was erratic

2019 first 8: 5-3 - worse OL, bad run game, Kupp and Woods were awesome, no run game, erratic play

2019 last 8: 4-4 - OL better for last five games, no run game, erratic play, probably best stretch in his last five on this list so far

2020 first 8: 5-3 - better OL, better run game, same WRs than 2019 considering Cooks had a down year, erratic play


Differences between these stretches?
Elite OL? Yes. Healthy Gurley? Some of the games. Record? 5-3

No run game, bad OL, record? 5-3

Better OL, better run game, record? 5-3


The one argument to be made is that when Goff had a top 5 OL, the best RB and the best three WRs in the NFL he looked great, yep. But he was on a rookie contract and the moment he got paid that was ways going to get worse.

 

[Oregonram]

Do you think it’s possible that Jared is trying to prove his worth after signing the big contract? And by doing so, is forcing things to try to make things happen. OT...get Akers more touches please.

 

[dieterbrock]

Sure we can cherry pick

Cherry pick? You said he played with a healthy Gurley. Gurley did not play in the 2 games I spoke of.
And then he barely played in the playoffs
At least have your facts straight
Goff was money in the NFC Championship game, and had a phenomenal 2018. The lengths people will go thru to tear the guy down makes me shake my head.

 

[MachS]

At least have your facts straight
Goff was money in the NFC Championship game, and had a phenomenal 2018. The lengths people will go thru to tear the guy down makes me shake my head.

The facts are in the last 8 games of 2018 Goff played 2 good games. SF and vs NO in the NFC championship. The other 6 games he was bad.

Last 8 games of 2018:

7TDs/ 8 INTs / 8 fumbles

Is that a good final 8 games to end 2018? More INTs than TDs and 8 fumbles? People aren't going through "lengths to tear him down," but we are concerned given this trend that started those 8 games. He followed those 8 games up with 21 turnovers in 2019. And is on pace for another 20 turnovers in 2020. How can you not be concerned is the better question?

 

[kurtfaulk]

The facts are in the last 8 games of 2018 Goff played 2 good games. SF and vs NO in the NFC championship. The other 6 games he was bad.

Last 8 games of 2018:

7TDs/ 8 INTs / 8 fumbles

Is that a good final 8 games to end 2018? More INTs than TDs and 8 fumbles? People aren't going through "lengths to tear him down," but we are concerned given this trend that started those 8 games. He followed those 8 games up with 21 turnovers in 2019. And is on pace for another 20 turnovers in 2020. How can you not be concerned is the better question?

you're judging if he played well by looking at how many tds he threw? really?

how many fumbles lost? surely not anywhere near 8.

the rams run in for tds. if they enter the redzone we know they're gonna run in for a score.

and half of those turnovers came in the bears game. stats show whatever you want them to show.

.

 

[dieterbrock]

The facts are in the last 8 games of 2018 Goff played 2 good games. SF and vs NO in the NFC championship. The other 6 games he was bad.

Last 8 games of 2018:

7TDs/ 8 INTs / 8 fumbles

Is that a good final 8 games to end 2018? More INTs than TDs and 8 fumbles? People aren't going through "lengths to tear him down," but we are concerned given this trend that started those 8 games. He followed those 8 games up with 21 turnovers in 2019. And is on pace for another 20 turnovers in 2020. How can you not be concerned is the better question?

Blah blah blah
He was great in the last 2 games on the season, games they needed to win to ensure playoff seed and games with Gurley in street clothes.
He was money in the NFC Championship game, and only a Rams fan will recall the INT he was credited with was totally Gurley's fault.
But it's cute and disingenous when Goff detractors stretch truth to make points, like your turnover stat. Prior to the Chicago game where he was dreadful, and conditions were even worse, he had only thrown more than 1 INT in 2 games under McVay's watch. And then he threw 4, which is the base of your point. 4 INT in that game will throw any "sample" in to unfavorable.
The only problem with 2018 is that he had an epic stretch of unconscious play that was impossible to maintain that pace. And anything less than that brought the naysayers out with fabricated arguments like "the last 8 games blah blah blah"

 

[JKBOGEN]

Don't shame me; I actually liked it. Still play it, and I'm hoping it gets a sequel that ties it into things.

About to go back and give it another try now lmao

 

[Marc Spector]

The facts are in the last 8 games of 2018 Goff played 2 good games. SF and vs NO in the NFC championship. The other 6 games he was bad.

Last 8 games of 2018:

7TDs/ 8 INTs / 8 fumbles

Is that a good final 8 games to end 2018? More INTs than TDs and 8 fumbles? People aren't going through "lengths to tear him down," but we are concerned given this trend that started those 8 games. He followed those 8 games up with 21 turnovers in 2019. And is on pace for another 20 turnovers in 2020. How can you not be concerned is the better question?

Dude the cognitive dissonance from some of these guys is staggering. They act like we didnt watch those games either

I remember being petrified of playoff seeding that year because The Rams performance had been significantly trending down the last quarter of the season and we capped it off by beating juggernauts such as *check notes* a Lions, 49ers, and Cardinals team that combined for 13 wins?

Meanwhile the better than average defenses we faced all year were all set to be in the playoffs (eagles, bears) and both these teams beat the shit outta of us and embarrassed Goff two weeks in a row. And we were going to have to travel to New Orleans. And the Seahawks were trending up as theyd won 7 of their last 8.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Nice job on this, Jake. I do have a question though.

On the slide where you show the substantial drop off in RB reception production, you state that McVay is part of the problem since he has gone away from what Goff was comfortable with. I wonder if this is true.

Isn't it possible the routes drawn up have this baked in, but it is Goff himself who has chosen not to go there? Upon watching the all-22, I often see open RBs in the flat, but JG seems locked in on what he assumed would be open pre-snap.

Further, with all the stats you poured through to compile this analysis, is there data showing when a QB choses the wrong option? In other words, quantifying the ability to read the D pre and post snap?

I wonder if Goff does not trust his running backs to catch and/or make a decent gain. We see him throw to them on screens and often in hopeless situations as a last second safety valve. We don't see them used as an actual receiving threat, which is disappointing. I wonder if its less of an option with how defenses are not focused on the deep part of the field. With more defenders up close the RB passes are less of an option. Or is Goff simply looking to make bigger plays? Its tough to tell, but he sure does seem to be more locked onto his hot route than years past. I thought QBs were supposed to improve in the mental aspects of the game, not regress.

 

[badnews]

I thought QBs were supposed to improve in the mental aspects of the game, not regress.

Sure, they should assuming the talent around them is the same.

Its hard for me to believe that anyone would suggest a prime NFL MVP Gurley behind the leagues best Oline BY FAR, with Watkins, Woods and Kupp, with a better offensive staff and more creativity in the playbook in any way compares to what Goff has been working with the past two seasons.

All of this talk about when Goff was good enough in 2018 and when he wasnt... laughable. He was 23 years old and in only his second year in a real offense, his second full season as a starter.
Think about that?
Also, in those games where Goff really struggled, part of that was McVays 11 offense tendencies finally being sniffed out. Yeah Goff played bad in those games but any young QB would have that day at Chicago, the gameplan wasn't ready for the defense. Thats as much on coaching as the QB.

Some people who are correct that Goffs play is a problem of late have been blaming him since before he really deserved it. That's why some Goff supporters like myself aren't too keen on saying "oh yeah they were right all along" because before they were right, they were dead wrong and with an agenda. Right now the agenda is still there only now they have the stats to support themselves too.

I think Mahomes and Lamar mania came and set the league on fire and now people have lost their damn minds about what they should expect from a young QB.
Well Goff entered the league very young with no experience in a pro system. His development was always going to take time. His 7 games his rookie season doesn't even deserve to count.

QBs who play the way he does are going to get beat sometimes and usually losing means some turnovers.