Wentz headed to Sr. bowl

[dieterbrock]

Does ND State success without him hurt his stock? Man, they havent missed a beat

 

[ChrisW]

Does ND State success without him hurt his stock? Man, they havent missed a beat

Man, I dunno. He's impressive to watch, though. He moves really well for how big he is.

 

[Merlin]

I think you are all shooting too low on Wentz. Sure in a perfect world he goes where his talent level slots him, but he is a QB and every team in the league that doesn't have one will want one. Even a team that has a QB may look at Wentz as a prospect to sit and learn like Arizona.

It is glaringly obvious that the Rams need a QB of the future and any team that likes Wentz will try to jump them to get him. If they like him better than Mannion then they need to make a move to get him. I doubt he gets to 15. Teams recently downgraded Bridgewater and Carr and I am sure they all rue those decisions. I bet the Rams would love to have Carr right now.

Agreed Elm. And you know, the problem for the Rams is they have not really put good draft capital forward on the QB position, which has positioned them where they probably need to reach to ensure they get their guy.

Which is OK by me. Why? Because IF you hit on QB it doesn't matter how high you take him.

As to Wentz, he is an interesting prospect. More I watch of him the more I realize how much I overlooked him earlier this college season. He has great size, is very athletic particularly for a big man, and has all kinds of arm, which are the things that always pump a QB way up the draft charts. But what I look for and like about him is he is a competitor in the pocket (i.e. brave), the touch on his passes, and maybe most of all how quickly he scans the field.

This is a great year to draft a QB in my estimation, because there are some very good options. Rams, IMO, gotta come out of round 1 with one of them. And I'd be happy with Wentz or Cook (presuming the Rams won't have any hope of getting Lynch or Goff).

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Agreed Elm. And you know, the problem for the Rams is they have not really put good draft capital forward on the QB position, which has positioned them where they probably need to reach to ensure they get their guy.

Which is OK by me. Why? Because IF you hit on QB it doesn't matter how high you take him.

As to Wentz, he is an interesting prospect. More I watch of him the more I realize how much I overlooked him earlier this college season. He has great size, is very athletic particularly for a big man, and has all kinds of arm, which are the things that always pump a QB way up the draft charts. But what I look for and like about him is he is a competitor in the pocket (i.e. brave), the touch on his passes, and maybe most of all how quickly he scans the field.

This is a great year to draft a QB in my estimation, because there are some very good options. Rams, IMO, gotta come out of round 1 with one of them. And I'd be happy with Wentz or Cook (presuming the Rams won't have any hope of getting Lynch or Goff).

I am not crazy about Cook. Wentz, Goff or Lynch.

 

[dieterbrock]

Man, I dunno. He's impressive to watch, though. He moves really well for how big he is.

I agree.
I've only watched clips but love what I've seen

 

[LACHAMP46]

I am not crazy about Cook. Wentz, Goff or Lynch.

Curious how you feel about Case Keenum, Nick Foles, Kellen Clemmons, Sean Hill, Austin Davis, or Sean Mannion?

 

[jrry32]

Agreed Elm. And you know, the problem for the Rams is they have not really put good draft capital forward on the QB position, which has positioned them where they probably need to reach to ensure they get their guy.

Which is OK by me. Why? Because IF you hit on QB it doesn't matter how high you take him.

As to Wentz, he is an interesting prospect. More I watch of him the more I realize how much I overlooked him earlier this college season. He has great size, is very athletic particularly for a big man, and has all kinds of arm, which are the things that always pump a QB way up the draft charts. But what I look for and like about him is he is a competitor in the pocket (i.e. brave), the touch on his passes, and maybe most of all how quickly he scans the field.

This is a great year to draft a QB in my estimation, because there are some very good options. Rams, IMO, gotta come out of round 1 with one of them. And I'd be happy with Wentz or Cook (presuming the Rams won't have any hope of getting Lynch or Goff).

I think we have more hope than some expect. Never know how things will go over the next few months...plus, we can trade up. A number of the teams picking near the top of the draft have QBs and would likely consider trading down for the right price.(Tennessee, Baltimore, San Diego, Jacksonville, etc.)

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Curious how you feel about Case Keenum, Nick Foles, Kellen Clemmons, Sean Hill, Austin Davis, or Sean Mannion?

Sorry, that read funny. I am not crazy about Cook. It's Wentz, Lynch, or Goff for me.

 

[ChrisW]

Sorry, that read funny. I am not crazy about Cook. It's Wentz, Lynch, or Goff for me.

I could be wrong, because i'm new to trying to evalute these guys....but I want whoever moves the best in the pocket and who you can see going through progressions. To me, it seems Goff and Wentz are the two best at this.

 

[jrry32]

I could be wrong, because i'm new to trying to evalute these guys....but I want whoever moves the best in the pocket and who you can see going through progressions. To me, it seems Goff and Wentz are the two best at this.

That's not Wentz.

Sorry, that read funny. I am not crazy about Cook. It's Wentz, Lynch, or Goff for me.

I think a lot of y'all are going to be surprised by Cook in the NFL. Getting too hung on one stat. Check out what Cook has done against the blitz during his college career. He's absolutely destroyed the blitz. And it's because he is outstanding at recognizing the blitz, calling protections to pick it up, and then finding and hitting the advantageous match-up he's given. Why am I telling you this? Because it translates to the NFL. Calling protections, finding the right match-ups, and recognizing what the defense is doing pre-snap are all some of the most important things a QB has to do at the next level and we know that Cook is capable of doing it. That's not true of the vast majority of college QBs...because they aren't asked to do it.

Not to mention the fact that we've seen Cook throw players open, throw with anticipation, and use his eyes to move defenders...again, all important things that translate to the NFL that you don't get to see every college passer do.

 

[jrry32]

Does ND State success without him hurt his stock? Man, they havent missed a beat

Nah. They've won something like 4 straight national championships. Program has always had talent. They're just winning in a different way without Wentz. They are using a running QB and just going ground and pound to win. His backup hasn't done a ton through the air...which shouldn't surprise anyone. NDSU has a really strong running game and defense. Their pass catchers are not impressive at all. Vraa is the only quality WR they have and he's slow but sure-handed.

 

[Stel]

Not to mention the fact that we've seen Cook throw players open, throw with anticipation, and use his eyes to move defenders...again, all important things that translate to the NFL that you don't get to see every college passer do.

And with all that talent he still completes less than 60% of his passes against lesser defenders than he will ever see in the NFL.

If he excels in the NFL I'll admit I was wrong, but at this point, I don't want an inconsistent sub 60% passer with dubious leadership skills.

 

[ChrisW]

And with all that talent he still completes less than 60% of his passes against lesser defenders than he will ever see in the NFL.

To be fair, how many of his pass catchers will be impact players on Sundays?

 

[dieterbrock]

I think a lot of y'all are going to be surprised by Cook in the NFL. Getting too hung on one stat. Check out what Cook has done against the blitz during his college career. He's absolutely destroyed the blitz. And it's because he is outstanding at recognizing the blitz, calling protections to pick it up, and then finding and hitting the advantageous match-up he's given. Why am I telling you this? Because it translates to the NFL. Calling protections, finding the right match-ups, and recognizing what the defense is doing pre-snap are all some of the most important things a QB has to do at the next level and we know that Cook is capable of doing it. That's not true of the vast majority of college QBs...because they aren't asked to do it.

Not to mention the fact that we've seen Cook throw players open, throw with anticipation, and use his eyes to move defenders...again, all important things that translate to the NFL that you don't get to see every college passer do.

I've seen Cook play probably 15 games in his career and he is inaccurate despite playing behind solid O-line's. He gets plenty of time to throw and has some terrible misses. His mechanics arent flawed that would make you feel they could improve. I dont see how the critical eye looks at Cook and says, yeah he can just improve that accuracy problem in the pros.
He's Jake Locker without the running ability

 

[jrry32]

And with all that talent he still completes less than 60% of his passes against lesser defenders than he will ever see in the NFL.

If he excels in the NFL I'll admit I was wrong, but at this point, I don't want an inconsistent sub 60% passer with dubious leadership skills.

Didn't stop Matt Ryan, Carson Palmer, Jay Cutler, or Matt Stafford from being successful.

Basing an evaluation on one stat is no bueno for me.

I've seen Cook play probably 15 games in his career and he is inaccurate despite playing behind solid O-line's. He gets plenty of time to throw and has some terrible misses. His mechanics arent flawed that would make you feel they could improve. I dont see how the critical eye looks at Cook and says, yeah he can just improve that accuracy problem in the pros.
He's Jake Locker without the running ability

Yes, they are.

He's not Jake Locker. If Jake Locker had Cook's mental acuity, vision, and instincts, he'd have been successful at the NFL level.

 

[dieterbrock]

Didn't stop Matt Ryan, Carson Palmer, Jay Cutler, or Matt Stafford from being successful.

Basing an evaluation on one stat is no bueno for me.



Yes, they are.

He's not Jake Locker. If Jake Locker had Cook's mental acuity, vision, and instincts, he'd have been successful at the NFL level.

Not with his Jake Locker inaccuracy he wouldnt.

 

[jrry32]

Not with his Jake Locker inaccuracy he wouldnt.

Yea, he would have. Jake Locker was a less accurate passer than Cook and he still would have been fine if the mental game were there.

Hell, Donovan McNabb's accuracy was always poor for a NFL QB and it never stopped him from being a Pro Bowl QB.

I don't like betting on passers with inconsistent or poor accuracy...but I will in rare circumstances. Cook is a rare circumstance. Rest of the game makes up for his inconsistent accuracy. Likely caps his upside but I'm fine with getting a Cutler/Stafford level QB.

 

[dieterbrock]

Yea, he would have. Jake Locker was a less accurate passer than Cook and he still would have been fine if the mental game were there.

Hell, Donovan McNabb's accuracy was always poor for a NFL QB and it never stopped him from being a Pro Bowl QB.

I don't like betting on passers with inconsistent or poor accuracy...but I will in rare circumstances. Cook is a rare circumstance. Rest of the game makes up for his inconsistent accuracy. Likely caps his upside but I'm fine with getting a Cutler/Stafford level QB.

Well sure, McNabb skill set was multi faceted as he was extremely dangerous running the ball. If Cook is running the ball, its dangerous too. Mostly to your team's chances of winning....
I'd be more than willing to overlook the accuracy if he played on a team where he faced pass rush, or a small school standing up in competition. But for the most part, he played out of a clean pocket and I've seen him wildly miss.
Heck Cousins played in the same offense his last 2 years and his comp % was much higher. And i dont necassarly consider him an accurate thrower

 

[LACHAMP46]

I am not crazy about Cook.

His mechanics arent flawed that would make you feel they could improve. I dont see how the critical eye looks at Cook and says, yeah he can just improve that accuracy problem in the pros.

see below\/

I think a lot of y'all are going to be surprised by Cook in the NFL. Getting too hung on one stat. Check out what Cook has done against the blitz during his college career. He's absolutely destroyed the blitz. And it's because he is outstanding at recognizing the blitz, calling protections to pick it up, and then finding and hitting the advantageous match-up he's given. Why am I telling you this? Because it translates to the NFL.

Exactly....inaccuracy is a big thing...But every nugget of his game needs to be considered....I try not to drag every skillset these guys display (or don't) through the mud. Key for me, will he work to correct his flaws...

For Elms & dieter's viewing entertainment:
Pretty sure I posted this in here, somewhere.....but just in case....



Pretty long, so if you've got some time....check out some small skills this kid possesses....

 

[jrry32]

Well sure, McNabb skill set was multi faceted as he was extremely dangerous running the ball. If Cook is running the ball, its dangerous too. Mostly to your team's chances of winning....

When McNabb was young...sure. When he was in his 30s, he wasn't much of a runner. Still was a Pro Bowl level QB until his last couple years.

BTW, I don't know why you're implying that Cook isn't mobile. It's not hurting your team if he's running the ball. He's actually a pretty athletic QB. Similar to Cutler in terms of mobility.
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=11761106

I'd be more than willing to overlook the accuracy if he played on a team where he faced pass rush, or a small school standing up in competition. But for the most part, he played out of a clean pocket and I've seen him wildly miss.

Why would that make it more excusable? If you're evaluating his accuracy by watching the games, none of this would really matter.

Heck Cousins played in the same offense his last 2 years and his comp % was much higher. And i dont necassarly consider him an accurate thrower

No, he didn't. Cousins played under Don Treadwell who left to coach Miami of Ohio and spent his final year under Dan Roushar who now coaches for the Saints. Cook has played his entire career under Dave Warner and Jim Bollman (co-OCs). They don't run the same system that Cousins did. They run a more vertically oriented offense. It's basically like Michigan State went from a WCO to an Air Coryell offense.

Plus, if we're going to bring up Cousins...yes, he had a much better career completion percentage. But Cook's TD to Int ratio is much higher.(Cousins threw 66 TDs to 30 Ints while Cook has 71 TDs to 20 Ints) I'd say TD to Int ratio is more important than completion percentage.