Was McVay premature in bailing on Goff to trade for Stafford?

[Allen2McVay]

Lots of good responses to a reasonable, well written question from an OP that has built up plenty of credibility to ask that question.

I may have missed it but did anyone mention the age, experience, career and contract factors related to key veterans like Whitworth and Donald? Neither figured to be around much longer, making the Super Bowl window a little smaller.

Just a personal opinion from an older poster. I was around for the decade of the 1970s when the Rams were REALLY Good; and the failure to get to Super Bowls (0-4 in NFC Championship Games until 1979), and to win a Lombardi was incredibly disappointing and frustrating.

While I have fond memories of the Rams teams of my teenage years, that entire decade remains a disappointment to me.

 

[Jacobarch]

I'll never understand why these threads come up from time to time and why anyone gives them the time of day. We won a fuckin super bowl with Stafford. Touch grass. Love you rams43 but common dude

 

[Dodgersrf]

What I loved about the trade.
- Stafford is a HOF QB.

What I didn’t like about the trade.
- Stafford didn’t appear to be a long term solution.
His age was a concern for me.
Hopefully we can get 2-3 more years out of him.

With that said, I’ll take that Super Bowl win any day.

 

[dieterbrock]

Am I the only one wondering why Goff was struggling those last 2 years under McVay but now is an elite QB under Campbell?

if McVay is such an offensive genius, how could that happen?

And what does that say about McVay’s ability to coach to his players strengths rather than requiring the player to function within McVay’s preferred system?

Think about it before you post a knee jerk reaction, please.

Goff had his career highs in TD passes, yardage and passer rating, all under McVay's watch. Campbell didnt bring anything out of Goff that wasnt already there

 

[Tano]

Trading Goff for Stafford was the right move and paid off in a Super Bowl victory. Price was just a bit too high though. Felt Snead could have done the deal for Goff and a First rounder with a little more back and forth. Two firsts and a third was a bit much. That's the only quibble I have on the trade.

Me too

 

[JonRam99]

Things to consider when comparing the two QB's:
- Current OL status -- Rams: in shambles. Lions: pretty good, offloaded an oft-injured LG to Rams.
- Current WR status -- Rams: in shambles. Lions: great, still have their original WR#1, 2, etc.
- Current TE status -- Rams: in shambles. Lions: very good, their current TE >> oft-injured Higbee.
- Current RB status -- Rams: very good. Lions: very good, maybe great, Gibbs looking like he has a TGII gear.
- Current HC status -- Rams: great. Lions: good, but I think one that isn't "great" is more willing to work with what he has. I'd call this situation even.
- Current fanbase status -- Rams: BAD. Opposing fans regularly out-repping Rams in their own home turf. Home turf is supposed to be a huge advantage (c.f. Chiefs, Bills) but not for us. Not fun being a QB who's always playing in a hostile environment, even for your "home" playoff games you're playing in "Levi's South". Fiske being jealous of the support that the Bears get in ancient Soldier Field?? $4bn for a stadium you might as well have built in Mexico? better get that fanbase built up in a hurry, Stan, or you might as well change it's name to "(your stadium's name here)________________" South. And I'm not kidding.
Lions: Great. Blue jerseys in almost every seat. Friendly environment where you can easily change play calls at the line. Big consideration for a QB.

....yet, despite all this, Stafford almost beat said Lions, and CHI too, on the road. Staff >> Goff all day long. All. Day. Long.

 

[Allen2McVay]

Seen several mentions of HC Campbell, and think he has done an excellent job. However, I’m inclined to give a lot of credit to the Lions’ offensive coordinator.

I was very surprised Ben Johnson did not get a head coaching job this past offseason; and wonder if he took himself out of consideration in a couple places to build his resume to get an optimum job in 2025.

The Lions’ offense is (and has been) loaded with talent, and Johnson has done a terrific job. Will be curious to see how the unit performs if he leaves. Philadelphia’s offense and Jalen Hurts have not looked as effective since Shane Steichen left town.

 

[Varg6]

I think trading for Stafford was the right move because, at the time, we were all in. We had the roster, we had everything except a QB McVay felt he could trust.

Say what you want but McVay and Snead had balls to make that trade.

However, there is a price to pay, that we are seeing glimpses of now. Those guys like Big Whit and Donald are gone. There will be growing pains. There's a lack of talent on the defensive side of the ball, and we are also incredibly unlucky with injuries right now.

My biggest fear is that we don't realize our potential, and McVay leaves when Stafford does. Personally, I'd love to see what McVay can do with a 1st round QB he's excited to build a team around, but I'm not sure if that'll happen if we have a major deficit of talent. Time will tell.

Either way, I think Stafford and McVay are guys who should have at least 2 SBs, and I thought this was the year that would happen. Of course, the season's far from over, but the clock's ticking for Stafford...

 

[Toothsayer]

I'm appreciative of McVay & all he's brought to LAR, but he effed up by failing to adapt his scheme & approach to Goff. Once that damage was done, there was no choice but to move on. Even if their relationship hadn't soured & he'd taught JG16 the advanced diagnostic skills ( Campbell has spoken directly about how he needed to be taught how to set protections, for eg) needed to run his complex system, would Goff's athletic shortcomings have kept LAR from a SB win ? Maybe, but a lot of the mental stuff has clearly been fixed in DET & that does fall on coaching, imo.

Spilled milk & all that, so I'm more concerned that it's unclear we've even seen enough growth from McVay to this point to say that he'd be able to develop a young QB who doesn't arrive with an NFL-ready skillset/knowledge. The guy continues to defy logic with his use of personnel and formations. The flex, the willingness to adapt to personnel changes & evolving defensive tactics just isn't there. Too many games rely on Stafford bailing him out with his ability/knowledge, imo.

There are too many woulda/coulda/shoulda issues in this sad tale to make it worth debating, but it does make me eyeroll when fans try to reduce it to Stafford > Goff, LAR lost a SB with Goff & won one with Stafford . As if QB was the only thing that changed in '21; key players stayed healthy, the IOL stabilized, Kroenke rented a buttload of mercenaries, etc.

 

[payote75]

Yea I will take the Lombardi no matter what. Off might not have woken up here to a degree maybe the trade woke him up shocked his ass and obviously mcvay is one of the best but maybe the positive reinforcement mcvay style wasn't wt Goff needed for that next level. Maybe he needed the wake call and a scary giant coach that will eat his heart for breakfast if he would of stayed passive Goff on that level. Trades worked out for both.

There's no going BK now nor would I. Everything happens for a reason.

 

[Psycho_X]

Think about it before you post a knee jerk reaction, please.

It's just a completely pointless exercise, so many variables and "what ifs" come into play that its impossible to know. I'm guessing your end game here is to some how prove that if McVay changes we some how win multiple super bowls and get to keep our draft picks? Because that's the only scenario that matters since we did win a Super Bowl because of the trade.

Sure, maybe McVay changes his offense to accommodate Goff's failings and we go on and win multiple super bowls. Or he changes and Goff performs even worse to the point we eventually just cut his ass and get nothing in return and we don't win shit. If we were 1-3 after week 4 in 2021 than this exercise might have some validity to it. But it's 2024, we immediately won a SB and Goff has taken three years to almost get back to the level he was playing under McVay.

 

[Ellard80]

Am I the only one wondering why Goff was struggling those last 2 years under McVay but now is an elite QB under Campbell?

if McVay is such an offensive genius, how could that happen?

And what does that say about McVay’s ability to coach to his players strengths rather than requiring the player to function within McVay’s preferred system?

Think about it before you post a knee jerk reaction, please.

What did you miss the thousand page back and forths about this 3 years ago?

This thread is kind of distasteful at this point.

Goff's highest rated years were still under McVay.

including a much better win loss record.

 

[VegasRam]

No.

 

[Allen2McVay]

I'm not a fan of this discussion because I think it's kind old-and-cold at this point in time.

When both players' careers are over, it could be re-evaluated and re-considered, with hindsight.

That being said, the OP (Rams43) has been around a long time, and has proven to be a solid ROD contributor; and, I think he was just trying to have a legit football dialogue.

If we are going to pick on a poster, may I suggest @Loyal. I'm telling you, that guy is an Agitator.

 

[Coliseum Ram]

No way in the world McVay was premature in making the trade. It's okay for the Lions to "win" the trade also. Just like the Rams did. That's what trades are supposed to be by definition, win-win, not a head-to-head matchup.

 

[VegasRam]

Am I the only one wondering why Goff was struggling those last 2 years under McVay but now is an elite QB under Campbell?

if McVay is such an offensive genius, how could that happen?

And what does that say about McVay’s ability to coach to his players strengths rather than requiring the player to function within McVay’s preferred system?

Think about it before you post a knee jerk reaction, please.

OK - kneejerked with a no.
Now I'll answer with the whys.
Goff is not an elite QB period. (You're better than that)

Goff cannot play without a running game - Stafford can, cuz he's a way better QB.
With Gibbs and Montgomery (maybe best duo in the league) Goff is Mr. Playaction
(Compare superbowls when neither had a running game).

Stafford is better without perfect protection.
Goff has a killer Oline.

Actually, don't know why I am even responding to this, especially when you go after Mcvay as well.
Sorry @Rams43, think you're just frustrated with how the season's going and are now second guessing.

 

[PhillyRam]

Here’s my contention, I guess.

But it requires some assumptions.

IF the Rams keep Goff and IF McVay coaches him to his strengths rather than forcing him to play in McVay’s preferred O. (Like the lightly regarded Campbell has done)

And IF Rams used those two 1sts and that 3rd wisely in addition to their other picks…

THEN, imo, Rams would be in a much better position today than they are right now. Might or might not have that Lombardi but the view of their future for next 10 years would be considerably brighter than it now is. Top 5 QB in his prime with a loaded roster? Are you KIDDING me?

Sigh…

 

[TSFH Fan]

"Here's the f---ing deal, OK? We can sit here and exist, and be OK winning nine to 11 games, and losing in the f---ing divisional round and feel like, 'Oh, everything's OK.' Or, we could let our motherf---ing nuts hang, and go trade for this f---ing quarterback, and give ourselves a chance to go win a f---ing world championship. You ready to f---ing do this or what?"

 

[Merlin]

Am I the only one wondering why Goff was struggling those last 2 years under McVay but now is an elite QB under Campbell?

if McVay is such an offensive genius, how could that happen?

And what does that say about McVay’s ability to coach to his players strengths rather than requiring the player to function within McVay’s preferred system?

Think about it before you post a knee jerk reaction, please.

It surprises me to see a fan who goes back to the 70s not remembering the value of a title. How many great teams did we have that came up short. It ain't easy getting over that hump. There is no way in hell Goff leads us to that title.

Goff now has one of the best OL in the league and a coach from the Parcells tree who respects physicality and the ground game. So maybe he can get a team around him to win it all. Parcells, after all, won Super Bowls with Simms who was a low-mistake game manager. But McVay ain't Parcells. He is great in his own respect though, and there will come a day when you miss him and put all that in perspective.

 

[Tano]

With Gibbs and Montgomery (maybe best duo in the league) Goff is Mr. Playaction

That's probably the one thing Goff is much better than Stafford at.

One of the best playaction QBs in the game.

However, Stafford is much better in all other phases of the game except for maybe accuracy when given time.

I might give a slight edge to Goff on accuracy when given time but it is so close that it is negligible.

I also might give Goff a slight edge on his receiving ability.