The Known CHEATERS... Cheatriots & Astros

[snackdaddy]

The WWE is a show with preterdetermined outcomes. Not much different than going to a live theater and watching the actors perform. I will admit what the WWE actors to takes skill and athleticism. But that is the only difference to me. I don't watch it.

If I thought for a moment the NFL was in that category, I would stop watching it. Lets get real. If there really was a conspiracy to manipulate games, there is no way it would not be discovered. With thousands, maybe tens of thousands over the last 100 years, of people involved with the NFL, it isn't conceivable that they all would keep their mouths shut. Someone woulda blown the whistle years ago.

 

[OregonRamsFan]

I totally disagree and not they way they did it! Sorry, it bothers me when people take this approach, the Astros are a disgrace and I actually believe the Commissioner did as much as he could because they are not taking the title away, but that organization is a disgrace to the game and should never be forgiven for it.

IMO, they should be moved to the Philippines and be renamed the Manila Folders!

Well I guess we agree then.

Sorry, I wish people would quote my text in its entirety so as to be provided proper context. We will never know what other teams have done to cheat, whether it’s PEDs or some other form. We just don’t know. Regardless, it doesn’t make what happened any better, that was not my point.

 

[Angry Ram]

The WWE is a show with preterdetermined outcomes. Not much different than going to a live theater and watching the actors perform. I will admit what the WWE actors to takes skill and athleticism. But that is the only difference to me. I don't watch it.

If I thought for a moment the NFL was in that category, I would stop watching it. Lets get real. If there really was a conspiracy to manipulate games, there is no way it would not be discovered. With thousands, maybe tens of thousands over the last 100 years, of people involved with the NFL, it isn't conceivable that they all would keep their mouths shut. Someone woulda blown the whistle years ago.

I watch WWE all their shows every week and PPVs. I do think it takes more than just athleticism. You need the conditioning, strength, etc to do what they do all while doing traveling, working out, fan events, etc. The bumps while are planned and practice are still painful and dangerous.

But yeah I agree with you on everything else. Can you imagine the forty shitters and Chiefs in a meeting room before the Super Bowl?

"Ok, Jimmy, can you throw a few "almost" picks? They need to make you look uneasy. Really sell it."

"Hey Andy, here's what we're planning so you can get the trophy. First we're gonna keep it tight, then after half let Jimmy lead some scoring drives. Kyle, at this point your defense needs to break out a pose in the endzone. Show that cockiness. You're the heel, really show how much of assholes you guys are. Patrick, now you start chucking it. We're gonna give a great David vs Goliath story where you are David."

See how ridiculous that sounds?

 

[Selassie I]

You can't go to a Vegas sports book and bet on Pro Wrestling.

When Vegas cuts off NFL betting like they do with wrestling... I'll get concerned.

 

[den-the-coach]

Well I guess we agree then.

Sorry, I wish people would quote my text in its entirety so as to be provided proper context. We will never know what other teams have done to cheat, whether it’s PEDs or some other form. We just don’t know. Regardless, it doesn’t make what happened any better, that was not my point.

Guess, I did not know what pitch was coming on that one.

View: https://media.giphy.com/media/ksbP3tuToS5NfE0v3c/giphy.gif

 

[bubbaramfan]

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

The WWE is a show with preterdetermined outcomes. Not much different than going to a live theater and watching the actors perform. I will admit what the WWE actors to takes skill and athleticism. But that is the only difference to me. I don't watch it.

If I thought for a moment the NFL was in that category, I would stop watching it. Lets get real. If there really was a conspiracy to manipulate games, there is no way it would not be discovered. With thousands, maybe tens of thousands over the last 100 years, of people involved with the NFL, it isn't conceivable that they all would keep their mouths shut. Someone woulda blown the whistle years ago.

Refs are not permitted to speak to the press. They sign an agreement with the league. The refs are the only people needed to fix a game. Not even a full crew is needed.

Jets fans sued the NFL for ticket prices. The league won the suit because they are officially designated as sports entertainment. They only guarantee a seat to watch from. They do not guarantee a fair contest.

TV contracts are huge. You don’t think they have a say in outcomes? A former Pro Bowl corner wrote a book saying as much.

Do they fix every game? I don’t think so. Especially early in the season there is little reason to. But midway you start to see more questionable calls. I think the Networks like you see what stories unfold and see if there is something to run with. If there isn’t then they let it play out.

I don’t know how anyone could have watched the Rams/Steelers game and come away from it without thinking the Steelers were supposed to win.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Wherever threads about UFO sightings, flat earth philosophies or other whacked out conspiracy theories would go. This "theory" was the rage a bunch of years ago and was debunked then.
All this nonsense started with some frivolous lawsuit that went nowhere.

Debunked? By who, the NFL? I’ve seen a pile of stuff that was never debunked?
Debunk it all for me.

 

[Tano]

Refs are not permitted to speak to the press. They sign an agreement with the league. The refs are the only people needed to fix a game. Not even a full crew is needed.

Jets fans sued the NFL for ticket prices. The league won the suit because they are officially designated as sports entertainment. They only guarantee a seat to watch from. They do not guarantee a fair contest.

TV contracts are huge. You don’t think they have a say in outcomes? A former Pro Bowl corner wrote a book saying as much.

Do they fix every game? I don’t think so. Especially early in the season there is little reason to. But midway you start to see more questionable calls. I think the Networks like you see what stories unfold and see if there is something to run with. If there isn’t then they let it play out.

I don’t know how anyone could have watched the Rams/Steelers game and come away from it without thinking the Steelers were supposed to win.

That game still makes me sick to the stomach. I stopped watching it at half time because I couldn't stand how bad the refs were making calls against the Rams. And from what I heard, the horrible calls against the Rams continued in the second half.

The Goff fumble, the pass interference against Ramsey - horrible horrible calls

There is no way in hell that WR comes back to catch that pass - no possible way

That should have been an uncatchable pass - therefore NO PI

That should have been an interception for the Rams.

Changes the entire outcome of the game. No score for Pittsburgh and the Rams have the ball if memory serves correctly, around the 50 yard line.

I think the next time I have horrible nausea and need to throw up, I'll re-watch this game. That should do the trick.

 

[Merlin]

If I wanted to influence games I would buy the umpire. The umpire can flag holding on any play that is key for the team I want to lose.

 

[dieterbrock]

Debunked? By who, the NFL? I’ve seen a pile of stuff that was never debunked?
Debunk it all for me.

The suit was thrown out of civil court immediately. Not because of the "sports entertainment" nonsense, because the suit had no merit. An appeal was filed and also thrown out. Just like the Saints suit over the blown call and the fan who sued the NFL over fining the Pats. There's a whole littany of frivolous suits.
The attorney who filed that suit and the subsequent appeal is a consumer rights advocate and was merely shitstorming to gain attention and promotion for his firm. He practices in my town and will sue anyone if it can bring promotion to his firm.
Years later some hack decides to fabricate that suit and tie it in with some nonsense clause of "Sports Entertainment". Thats all it takes to get conspiracy theorists juices flowing, but at a deeper glance it makes no sense. It is an anti trust exemption which basically defines the relationship of the franchises to the league as an entity. Nothing to do with culpability for cheating.
As for the Ref's, they're no different than any other sport in that they have a collective bargain agreement, they're paid by the NFL as contractors or temp employees. They do have full time employees per the new CBA which of course is an entirely different subject....

 

[CGI_Ram]

If I wanted to influence games I would buy the umpire.

Umpires of significant games wouldn’t get away with that long, IMO.

 

[Merlin]

Umpires of significant games wouldn’t get away with that long, IMO.

I think they might tbh. Just flag the important plays that would swing things. I don't think they could make a team win it if they're outgunned, but if there's a well-balanced game a couple key holding penalties could change things.

Just look at the hold on Gurley's big run in our recent Super Bowl. Take that away, or the ref misses it, and things might have turned out a lot differently.

 

[CGI_Ram]

I think they might tbh. Just flag the important plays that would swing things. I don't think they could make a team win it if they're outgunned, but if there's a well-balanced game a couple key holding penalties could change things.

Just look at the hold on Gurley's big run in our recent Super Bowl. Take that away, or the ref misses it, and things might have turned out a lot differently.

I think the act of accepting money is how they’d get smoked out. You don’t keep those secrets easily.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

The suit was thrown out of civil court immediately. Not because of the "sports entertainment" nonsense, because the suit had no merit. An appeal was filed and also thrown out. Just like the Saints suit over the blown call and the fan who sued the NFL over fining the Pats. There's a whole littany of frivolous suits.
The attorney who filed that suit and the subsequent appeal is a consumer rights advocate and was merely shitstorming to gain attention and promotion for his firm. He practices in my town and will sue anyone if it can bring promotion to his firm.
Years later some hack decides to fabricate that suit and tie it in with some nonsense clause of "Sports Entertainment". Thats all it takes to get conspiracy theorists juices flowing, but at a deeper glance it makes no sense. It is an anti trust exemption which basically defines the relationship of the franchises to the league as an entity. Nothing to do with culpability for cheating.
As for the Ref's, they're no different than any other sport in that they have a collective bargain agreement, they're paid by the NFL as contractors or temp employees. They do have full time employees per the new CBA which of course is an entirely different subject....

that still doesn't debunk the possibility of cheating. MLB isn't Sports Entertainment. WE designation gives the NFL free reign to control outcomes of they choose. Sometimes they do, sometimes they dont. Refs can't possibly be as inept as they were in the Rams vs Steelers game. Then you see shots of refs randomly changing the ball spot after its set to give or take a first down. There are a million examples of refs obviously affecting the game. A former player even wrote a book about it.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Umpires of significant games wouldn’t get away with that long, IMO.

the Steelers vs Seahawks Superbowl is a perfect example. One phantom hold have that game to Pittsburgh. There were other made up calls against Seattle, but that one was totak my made up.

 

[CGI_Ram]

the Steelers vs Seahawks Superbowl is a perfect example. One phantom hold have that game to Pittsburgh. There were other made up calls against Seattle, but that one was totak my made up.

I don’t dispute the fact one call can change an outcome. Or a collection of calls.

It’s the financial transaction, accepting payment for rigging games at the referee level... that’s what I don’t think Refs can get away with. Eventually someone talks.

I mean, if you do it once... don’t you have to do it again? That will spiral into an uncontrolled spin.

 

[Tano]

I don’t dispute the fact one call can change an outcome. Or a collection of calls.

It’s the financial transaction, accepting payment for rigging games at the referee level... that’s what I don’t think Refs can get away with. Eventually someone talks.

I mean, if you do it once... don’t you have to do it again? That will spiral into an uncontrolled spin.

I have been saying that sometimes refs unconsciously make calls against teams.

I know Vinobitch does it against the Rams. Everytime he calls the game against the Rams, the Rams get penalized almost 5 to 10 times as much as the other team. The game against NO was another example. The Rams had way more penalties against NO and I am thinking maybe the Ref that didn't make the interference call (who wasn't Vinobitch btw), may have tried to make up for the non face mask call on Goff just a few minutes earlier.

 

[dieterbrock]

that still doesn't debunk the possibility of cheating. MLB isn't Sports Entertainment. WE designation gives the NFL free reign to control outcomes of they choose. Sometimes they do, sometimes they dont. Refs can't possibly be as inept as they were in the Rams vs Steelers game. Then you see shots of refs randomly changing the ball spot after its set to give or take a first down. There are a million examples of refs obviously affecting the game. A former player even wrote a book about it.

It debunks the theory that the designation of "sports entertainment" would protect them if caught fixing games.
Every fan of every team thinks the refs fix the games they lost. I get it, people love the narrative. Its just annoying to me when the theorists try to use ludicrous ideas like the "sports entertainment" angle to twist things in order to make it work.
All these books & theories always leave out the inevitable deal breaker. People talk, people cant keep a secret. Nary a whistleblower in all these years.....

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

It debunks the theory that the designation of "sports entertainment" would protect them if caught fixing games.
Every fan of every team thinks the refs fix the games they lost. I get it, people love the narrative. Its just annoying to me when the theorists try to use ludicrous ideas like the "sports entertainment" angle to twist things in order to make it work.
All these books & theories always leave out the inevitable deal breaker. People talk, people cant keep a secret. Nary a whistleblower in all these years.....

No it doesn’t. SE designation makes it legal to fix games