The Goff-season Thread

[thirteen28]

See this is the problem man. You can't tell when the issue is Goff and when it's not. There were numerous threads on this exact point and it shows why Goff has regressed. Im not trying to insult your football knowledge, but blaming the result of those plays on McVay is a joke.

Both play calls were the CORRECT calls vs the defensive looks, Goff chose the wrong WRs in the progression. He locked onto his first read which was Akers on the 3rd down. The 4th down if he waits a split second longer he has Kupp wide open on a crossing route. Goff needed 4 yards yet Goff chose the deep options on both those plays. McVay didn't tell him to go deep, he chose to. All our route combos have deep options, its up to the QB to go through the progression, have some situational awareness, and find the correct WR.

And yet, when McVay was asked about those playcalls, his response was that they though they could succeed on those plays because of the looks the defense gave him. He (McVay) called those plays, and by his response in the post-game press conference, Goff did exactly what he wanted him to do by taking the deep shots. He never made any suggestion that Goff should have taken one of those other reads and left no indication that he was unhappy with his decision-making there - and this was well after he had called Goff out for turning the ball over against SF, so you can't just say he was protecting him. McVay left every indication that Goff did precisely what he was supposed to do on those plays and they didn't work out. If he thought Goff should have done what you suggest, then when asked about not taking deep shots on those plays he could have said something like, "well, there were other receiving options on those plays but the QB didn't go to them." He didn't, instead he defended going deep.

At the same time, how often this season did you see McVay call that ridiculous WR screen on 3rd and long, which a) everybody saw coming, b) the defenses definitely saw coming as evidenced by the way the repeatedly sniffed it out and snuffed it. Then we'd punt or kick the FG. Are those playcalls Goff's fault too?

And for that matter, go back and watch the highlights against Seattle and GB in the playoffs - very early on in both of those videos you will see Goff get sacked, and in both cases, Austin Blythe is watching his man cream our QB. Goff's fault there too?

You're argument is precisely the one I am against, because you, like McVay, won't acknowledge there were any other problems with the offense, pinning all of it on the QB. Goff has issues, yes. But he wasn't the only problem by a long shot.

 

[Dodgersrf]

You say that. But then I read your posts and it sounds like you don't think he was a problem. Or you act like his problems are 100% correctable.

But what if McVay thinks that's not true. Should he hold on to Goff to make us happy?

Ill tell you what I dont want.
I don't want personal beefs between coach and QB to interfere with my Rams Football.

So if McVay and Goff aren't seeing eye to eye, it needs to be worked out.

This "My way or the Highway" attitude doesn't work in the NFL anymore.

Tom Coughlin was losing his players with that attitude. He was always a hard ass.
He learned to adjust, though and became a better coach because of it.

 

[dieterbrock]

He's better than Wolf and on a rookie contract. He has a cap hit of $2.8 mil. We would gain over $12mil by trading Goff, that would cut our cap overage from $27mil to $17mil. Of course you would ask for pick compensation and GB would have a haul from trading Rodgers.

He's not better than anyone right now. Hasnt stepped foot on an NFL field. Goff costs 22 mill and he costs 2.8. So you're willing to spend 25 mill of cap space on Love? And for all we know he may not even be able to play at this level. I swear, some of these takes are just flat out ludicrous. As if playing QB in the NFL isnt very hard...

 

[Bearrister]

O/U this thread is reaching 100 pages this weekend? I'll take the over.

 

[Shuie3225]

And yet, when McVay was asked about those playcalls, his response was that they though they could succeed on those plays because of the looks the defense gave him. He (McVay) called those plays, and by his response in the post-game press conference, Goff did exactly what he wanted him to do by taking the deep shots. He never made any suggestion that Goff should have taken one of those other reads and left no indication that he was unhappy with his decision-making there

Sorry man thats just completely false! I don't even need to go back and watch McVays presser because I remember what he said verbatim.

Yes he said we called the correct play for the defensive look we got. That means the route COMBO was perfect to beat man coverage. There are multiple options in a route COMBO. He followed that up by saying "yea we need to just progress there."

Go back and watch what he said I guarantee you that's his words. I remember because I posted about it. So what did he mean? If he called the correct play to beat man coverage, but we didnt "progress there* that means Goff chose the incorrect WR on that play because he didnt continue his progression. If he did it would have taken him from his 1st read (Akers on 3rd down, Everett on 4th) to his 2nd and 3rd reads who were coming wide open.

McVay pretty much said "Goff didn't do his job. I called the correct play to beat the defense but Goff couldn't go through his progression well enough and we lost the game."

So again, stop blaming shit on McVay if you dont know what you're talking about please.

 

[Memento]

O/U this thread is reaching 100 pages this weekend? I'll take the over.

This weekend? If Goff isn't traded, this thread will reach 100 pages before the day ends.

 

[Ballhawk]

Is anyone else concerned that we are going to end up back in Case Keenum quarterback hell?

 

[Gandalf]

He's not better than anyone right now. Hasnt stepped foot on an NFL field. Goff costs 22 mill and he costs 2.8. So you're willing to spend 25 mill of cap space on Love? And for all we know he may not even be able to play at this level. I swear, some of these takes are just flat out ludicrous. As if playing QB in the NFL isnt very hard...

If you sign Stafford or someone else, you still have to add Goff's $22mil. Stafford has a cap hit of $33mil this year, so do you pay $55mil for Stafford? Plus you have to pay him a $10mil bonus come March 10.

The thing is that if you trade Goff that $22mil is dead cap, it's gone. If you trade for a QB on a rookie deal you can cut your cap. It doesn't have to be Love, but a guy with two or three years left on a rookie contract or if you can get hold of a top pick to draft a replacement would be ideal.

And just to set the record straight with you, I am not a big advocate of dumping Goff, I would rather they fix the problems around him, settle their differences and play football.

 

[thirteen28]

You say that. But then I read your posts and it sounds like you don't think he was a problem. Or you act like his problems are 100% correctable.

But what if McVay thinks that's not true. Should he hold on to Goff to make us happy?

How many times do I have to say he needs to take better care of the football before someone realizes that I put some of the responsibility on him? 10 times? 50 times?

But he can't block for himself, and he can't call his own plays, and he can't re-design the offense.

Yes, I do think his problems are correctable. We've seen him play at a very high level in the past where these problems didn't manifest themselves. We saw him take better care of the football this year after McVay called him out after the SF loss.

What if McVay thinks it's not true? We'll see. But even the smartest coaches make mistakes and can be wrong. I've seen smart coaches jettison a player only to see that same player go on and succeed elsewhere. And I knew in my bones when Martz tossed Warner under the bus that he would play at a very high level again for some other team. And I firmly believe if McVay tosses Goff under the bus, if he gets into the right situation elsewhere (meaning a team that surrounds him with the requisite talent almost every QB needs), he'll succeed again.

 

[thirteen28]

Sorry man thats just completely false! I don't even need to go back and watch McVays presser because I remember what he said verbatim.

Yes he said we called the correct play for the defensive look we got. That means the route COMBO was perfect to beat man coverage. There are multiple options in a route COMBO. He followed that up by saying "yea we need to just progress there."

Go back and watch what he said I guarantee you that's his words. I remember because I posted about it. So what did he mean? If he called the correct play to beat man coverage, but we didnt "progress there* that means Goff chose the incorrect WR on that play because he didnt continue his progression. If he did it would have taken him from his 1st read (Akers on 3rd down, Everett on 4th) to his 2nd and 3rd reads who were coming wide open.

McVay pretty much said "Goff didn't do his job. I called the correct play to beat the defense but Goff couldn't go through his progression well enough and we lost the game."

So again, stop blaming shit on McVay if you dont know what you're talking about please.

You're just projecting now, but you're proving my point. You think McVay is god, infallible, perfect, and nothing else needs to be done to the offense but dump Goff for some other guy.

Good to know where you stand.

 

[NJRamsFan]

Goff will be moved.

Then the most staunch supporters will continue their voyage of acceptance by transferring their righteous anger to the Rams and McVay. They will hate whoever comes in to replace him. Why was Goff replaced they don't understand and never will.

The Rams will draft Mond or similar and he will compete with a group of mobile options. There will likely be a vet added too and there will be real competition.

The Rams offense will jump in 2021 from 22nd in scoring to the 10th range. Some fans will still be angry because Goff isn't our QB.

I think this is a likely result for this offseason. IMO the plan will end up being to draft their new QB and sit him while Wolford or similar keeps the job warm. Why have I arrived at this ridiculous position? Because the draft is where vision can find you a future at QB. And Mond is the type of guy McVay will want, that mold.

Nah. I’ll support whoever is under center and become his most staunch supporter. That’s what being a fan is I wish more of y’all realized that

 

[Shuie3225]

You're just projecting now, but you're proving my point. You think McVay is god, infallible, perfect, and nothing else needs to be done to the offense but dump Goff for some other guy.

Good to know where you stand.

Man what are you talking about? YOU brought up the end of the Jets game and blamed McVay to try and prove your point. You did that. I just stated how it was clearly a failure by Goff.

Then you said "well McVay didnt comment that Goff should've done anything differently." Which was just a flat out lie because McVay did.. So I explained to you what McVay said in his press conference (which is right here btw give it a listen. Its the first question) and you want to take your ball and go home now?


View: https://youtu.be/3TgYY1vQZiU


Just take the L and stop blaming McVay for stuff that was obviously not his fault. Is he perfect? No.. but the blame he's getting for wanting to trade Goff is fucking absurd.

 

[Bearrister]

Nah. I’ll support whoever is under center and become his most staunch supporter. That’s what being a fan is I wish more of y’all realized that

Same. That was a bit of a straw man there. I've supported Goff since college (I went to Cal and followed him closely with the Bears), was ecstatic that the Rams moved to LA then traded up to get him... it was like a dream come true. But ultimately, as much as I support Goff and think he still has it in him to turn things around, I get why the coaching staff is trying to move on (even if I don't necessarily agree - unless it's for Watson).

I'll continue to be a Rams fan even if/when they move on from Goff. I'll also root for Goff wherever he goes. I think the problem in this thread is that there've been too many straw man arguments from all sides - I think most here are able to see shades of gray rather than absolutes - "it's all Goff's fault" vs. "it's McVay's fault".

 

[NJRamsFan]

Same. That was a bit of a straw man there. I've supported Goff since college (I went to Cal and followed him closely with the Bears), was ecstatic that the Rams moved to LA then traded up to get him... it was like a dream come true. But ultimately, as much as I support Goff and think he still has it in him to turn things around, I get why the coaching staff is trying to move on (even if I don't necessarily agree - unless it's for Watson).

I'll continue to be a Rams fan even if/when they move on from Goff. I'll also root for Goff wherever he goes. I think the problem in this thread is that there've been too many straw man arguments from all sides - I think most here are able to see shades of gray rather than absolutes - "it's all Goff's fault" vs. "it's McVay's fault".

Agreed not all anyone’s fault there are deficiencies and mistakes on all sides.

 

[Merlin]

What if McVay thinks it's not true? We'll see. But even the smartest coaches make mistakes and can be wrong. I've seen smart coaches jettison a player only to see that same player go on and succeed elsewhere. And I knew in my bones when Martz tossed Warner under the bus that he would play at a very high level again for some other team. And I firmly believe if McVay tosses Goff under the bus, if he gets into the right situation elsewhere (meaning a team that surrounds him with the requisite talent almost every QB needs), he'll succeed again.

Of course he could be wrong. Letting Saffold go bit him in the ass and I put that one on him and Snead/Demoff. But he's generally right.

IMO the Rams' big mistakes have mostly been from this desire to be good guys and lock players up early. And I wonder who is pushing that inside Rams Park. Either way they need to learn from their mistakes and quit signing players early.

If Goff goes somewhere else and plays well good for him. Personally I don't give a fuck about ex-Rams though. Didn't care about Ike or Holt or Bradford or Kevin Greene or Hacksaw Reynolds and so on and so forth when they moved on. And if that happens I'll toast the guy even as I scroll on by your victory posts and I told you so's.

 

[dieterbrock]

If you sign Stafford or someone else, you still have to add Goff's $22mil. Stafford has a cap hit of $33mil this year, so do you pay $55mil for Stafford? Plus you have to pay him a $10mil bonus come March 10.

The thing is that if you trade Goff that $22mil is dead cap, it's gone. If you trade for a QB on a rookie deal you can cut your cap. It doesn't have to be Love, but a guy with two or three years left on a rookie contract or if you can get hold of a top pick to draft a replacement would be ideal.

And just to set the record straight with you, I am not a big advocate of dumping Goff, I would rather they fix the problems around him, settle their differences and play football.

Or you dont get rid of Goff...
Watson is the only upgrade, and if it could happen, I'd be unhappy we gave up on 16 but STOKED D-Watt is in the house.
Otherwise.. there is no reason to move on from JG

 

[dieterbrock]

How many times do I have to say he needs to take better care of the football before someone realizes that I put some of the responsibility on him? 10 times? 50 times?

It's like if you dont blame him for everything, you arent blaming him at all.
Goff is far from perfect, he cost us big time ina couple games, but we did win some games because of his play too.
He is fixable, if he isnt then how do people think teams will want him?

 

[dieterbrock]

Man what are you talking about? YOU brought up the end of the Jets game and blamed McVay to try and prove your point. You did that. I just stated how it was clearly a failure by Goff.

There's no reasoning with someone who refuses to see the forest thru the trees. McVay clearly took responsibility, and ultimately the players need to execute. However, the flaw which was never addressed was why they didnt just focus on the 1st down instead of the home run. That was biggest issue. They already had a TD called back and a 1st down nullified. And of course the option to kick a game tying 54 yard FG was discarded by the HC. No, it was not a failure on Goff

 

[Merlin]

Ill tell you what I dont want.
I don't want personal beefs between coach and QB to interfere with my Rams Football.

So if McVay and Goff aren't seeing eye to eye, it needs to be worked out.

This "My way or the Highway" attitude doesn't work in the NFL anymore.

Tom Coughlin was losing his players with that attitude. He was always a hard ass.
He learned to adjust, though and became a better coach because of it.

I think that IF McVay has decided Goff is holding him back and IF the Rams were to take your approach they would end up losing McVay. Which to me is the worst of all the potential results.

 

[tomas]

Well - yeah. At least in my (admittedly novice) opinion, he does.

Do you see it differently?

I think Goff has a low football IQ