Tavon Austin

[jap]

What? Prior to being drafted, Austin had never missed a practice much less a game in his career.

Patterson has plenty of talent but he doesn't cut like Austin. Austin's cutting ability can make him an amazing route runner once he gets it down.

Actually, Tavon did miss a practice . . . once . . . after he broke a finger in a game. However, he never actually missed a game until his rookie season when Dansby damaged his ankle.

 

[leoram]

I said before the 13 draft and will forever, Tavon is Az Hakim 2.0. Amazing quickness. Difference maker in slot and chess piece outside. GSOT was not the same without him per Kurt and Marshall. His hands are small and suspect but when he secures the ball, he's one defensive missed step to score.

I too was a Patterson honk and wish we had him but he's a Viking now and spilled milk sours more and more over time. He might as well be Randy Moss pouting and giving up as we pound him in the fourth quarter of the playoffs.

It does no more good to speculate. We will rally around Austin, and we will play good football.

 

[jap]

I said before the 13 draft and will forever, Tavon is Az Hakim 2.0. Amazing quickness. Difference maker in slot and chess piece outside. GSOT was not the same without him per Kurt and Marshall. His hands are small and suspect but when he secures the ball, he's one defensive missed step to score.

Tavon is better than the Wizard of Az---faster, quicker, much more sure with the ball in his hands. Az was a fumble waiting to happen half the time. Get Tavon outside in space and he could serve as the catalyst for our passing offense. The attention he will draw will allow easier 1-on-1 match ups for our other flyboys. If the DC's seek to flood the secondary with DB's to control him, our RB's and the Battering Ram OL will make them pay dearly, especially since each of our top four backs have the ability to take the rock quite a ways in space.

 

[HX76]

Just look at his third touchdown against Indianapolis. Get him open anywhere on the field and he'll make things happen. Not one person on there defence could get anywhere near him? If the Rams utilise him in the right way he'll be a massive success.

 

[jrry32]

So??? Neither had Danny Amendola. It doesn't take a nuclear physicist to determine his size and built makes him more susceptible to injury than someone built like Anquan Boldin.

Is that why Anquan Boldin has been more prone to injury than Wes Welker? All it takes is limited football experience to recognize that injury proneness has little to do with size.

The argument was--he's so quick that he can avoid hard hits. Unfortunately, it doesn't factor in the fact that the NFL is bigger and much faster; there's much less open space and much less ability to use your quickness to avoid hits. You're on very weak ground defending Austin's durability at this point. So far, my assessment is the more accurate.

Except Austin didn't get hurt on a big hit. He got hurt when a LB rolled up on his ankle. You know, the same situation that tore 6'7" 330 pound Jake Long's ACL. The same situation that hurt 6'5" 330 pound Rodger Saffold in 2012. The same situation that injured 6'4" 230 pound Sam Bradford in 2011.

I'm on weak ground? Fuck that. If Austin had been getting shaken up after every hit, you'd have a point. But that's not even close to what happened. The guy had no problems taking hits. He got unlucky. Shit happens in football. Doesn't matter how big or small you are.

Being smaller makes it harder for you to take the constant pounding...but as a WR, that's really not a major issue unless you're playing a Wes Welker type role where you touch the ball a ton of times.

Nobody cuts like Austin--maybe Percy Harvin. But Patterson is better at contesting DBs, much taller, infinitely stronger in both his legs and upper body, just as dangerous in the open field (and more likely to get into the open field), has stronger hands, jumps much higher and is almost as fast. These are as valuable assets for a receiver, many coaches will say more valuable, than the difference between superlative cutting and extremely good cutting abilities.

Patterson is not just as dangerous in the open-field.

Don't get me wrong. I really like Austin and what he brings to the table. Given the choice between Austin at #8 and Patterson at #29:

I'll clearly take Patterson.

I'll clearly take Austin. He has cutting ability, route running, and speed. And after those first five games where he clearly wasn't ready to be on the field, he dropped ZERO passes.

Patterson isn't physical, he's not a jump ball WR, and he's not a true speedster. He's a YAC WR. And Austin is more dangerous than he is with the ball in his hands.

 

[jrry32]

Sure he does. Are you kidding me?

Patterson, like Austin, is a TD waiting to happen. The only difference is you can't jam Patterson at the line nearly as easy as Austin. He's every much the open field threat as Austin. He went to the Pro Bowl and named All-Pro based on his ability to break away in the open field.

WHAAAAAAAT? Austin embarrassed quite a few CBs as a rookie when they tried to jam him. You're much better off trying to redirect Austin or knock him off his route than jam him at the LOS. He's too small, fast and quick. There are a lot of things to criticize rookie Austin for...beating the press ain't one of them.

 

[mr.stlouis]

Sure he does. Are you kidding me?

Patterson, like Austin, is a TD waiting to happen. The only difference is you can't jam Patterson at the line nearly as easy as Austin. He's every much the open field threat as Austin. He went to the Pro Bowl and named All-Pro based on his ability to break away in the open field.

Gearld McCoy got snubbed from the Pro Bowl last year, that says a lot. There's few better than him at DT, maybe nobody. Patterson did OK, though.

I didn't see Tavon get a whole lot "open field" last year. I don't beleive our offense will crumble like it did at the beginning of last year and Tavon will outshine Patttsrson by year's end.

We need to make a betting line for this.

 

[jap]

Just look at his third touchdown against Indianapolis. Get him open anywhere on the field and he'll make things happen. Not one person on there defence could get anywhere near him? If the Rams utilise him in the right way he'll be a massive success.

Well, the Colts were stupid enough to dare to take on Tavon with man coverage. I doubt any DC's, including the Colts', will ever do that again. However, Tavon would be best used mostly outside. They still need to move him around a lot to take full advantage of mismatches. Let him cover the entire route tree for all the WR positions; let him take the rock out of the backfield every now and then. Don't let any DC's feel comfortable setting up schemes against him in just one position.

 

[TheDYVKX]

Coordinators regularly change their defense strictly for Tavon. Patterson is a threat, but nothing like Tavon.

 

[rdw]

Actually, Tavon did miss a practice . . . once . . . after he broke a finger in a game. However, he never actually missed a game until his rookie season when Dansby damaged his ankle.

That's it, cut his ass!

 

[leoram]

Tavon is better than the Wizard of Az---faster, quicker, much more sure with the ball in his hands. Az was a fumble waiting to happen half the time. Get Tavon outside in space and he could serve as the catalyst for our passing offense. The attention he will draw will allow easier 1-on-1 match ups for our other flyboys. If the DC's seek to flood the secondary with DB's to control him, our RB's and the Battering Ram OL will make them pay dearly, especially since each of our top four backs have the ability to take the rock quite a ways in space.

Tavon dropped more balls than an honest duffer on a water filled golf course last year. Cook and Givens are nearly as bad. All three have athletic talent but I'd take Bruce, Holt, and Conwell over them based on route running and hands alone. When Tavon cleans up his drops, I will concur that his other qualities put him above Az. Az fumbled the punts so often I prayed for Proehl, Holt, or Faulk to fair catch something rather than put Az back there. But for whatever reason. Az caught passes that in his rookie year, Austin laid on the turf.

 

[LesBaker]

Tavon is better than the Wizard of Az---faster, quicker, much more sure with the ball in his hands. Az was a fumble waiting to happen half the time. Get Tavon outside in space and he could serve as the catalyst for our passing offense. The attention he will draw will allow easier 1-on-1 match ups for our other flyboys. If the DC's seek to flood the secondary with DB's to control him, our RB's and the Battering Ram OL will make them pay dearly, especially since each of our top four backs have the ability to take the rock quite a ways in space.

LOL no kidding. I've always said that when Az caught the ball or fielded a punt BOTH sidelines held their breath.

 

[…..]

I'm not going to get into the debate and try to prove one way or the other that Tavon has value....

But I am in the minority and agree with the Gator fan.....in retrospect, I make another selection in the draft.

Now....lets hope Tavon makes me look like a fool.

 

[OnceARam]

Loved the pick at the time, watching him play in college I was having dreams over what we could do with a dynamic playmaker like him.

But knowing then what we know now do we still draft him? It seems he was drafted for an opposite offence from which we intend to run, the offence which we attempted early last season but abandoned, a Fisher WR seems to be more in the Quick/Britt mold. Add to that we aren't actually capable of effectively blocking a screen play.

It just feels like he could be a phenom on a Chip Kelly style O, whereas on the team we want to be he seems a waste.

Given the choice would we trade him for a Zach Martin or another mid first round 2014 pick or is talent talent?

That isn't as eloquent as I'd like to put it but it's just something I've been wondering.

Hindsight is 20-20.... but I agree with you. He was WAY over drafted.

 

[BeerOClock]

All it takes is limited football experience to recognize that injury proneness has little to do with size.

Injuries: Austin out 3 1/4 games, Patterson out 0 games. Enough said.

Except Austin didn't get hurt on a big hit. He got hurt when a LB rolled up on his ankle. You know, the same situation that tore 6'7" 330 pound Jake Long's ACL.

No it wasn't a big hit (that's my point), but it wasn't even close to being the same situation as Jake Long. Dansby had very little of his weight on Austin. It was a simple tackle, with minimal if any roll. A sturdily built player would have gotten up with no problems. Not Austin--he's out for the remainder of the season.

Patterson is not just as dangerous in the open-field.

Just one more of your one-sided opinions. The facts:

NFL records[edit]

• Longest kickoff return touchdown: 109 yards (October 27, 2013)
• The first NFL player to have a 100-yard kickoff return touchdown, a 75-yard touchdown catch, and a 50-yard rushing touchdown in the same season. (2013)

Minnesota Vikings franchise records[edit]

• Most kickoff return yards in a season: 1,393 (2013)
• Highest kick return average in a season: 32.4 (2013)
• Most kickoff return touchdowns in a season: 2 (2013) (tied with Percy Harvin)[17]
• Longest rushing play by a receiver: 50 yards (December 29, 2013)
• Longest play by a Viking: 109 yards (October 27, 2013)

2013 AP All-Pro.

Patterson isn't physical, he's not a jump ball WR, and he's not a true speedster. He's a YAC WR. And Austin is more dangerous than he is with the ball in his hands.

Again, you're wrong. Watch Patterson's tape in college--he's a very physical player, often running over SEC defenders. I'll tell you what: You post the most physical play Tavon Austin has ever made and I'll post the same for Patterson. Let's decide. Austin rarely breaks an arm tackle. Patterson is faster than Sammy Watkins. So Watkins is not a true speedster? Patterson had almost double the APY and more TDs than Austin had. No, Patterson's not a jump ball WR, but infinitely more so than Austin who is an extremely limited target. And, unlike Austin, he has the physical tools to be one.

 

[Memphis Ram]

In your opinion where would he have been eventually drafted had we not made the trade?

Sounds like the Jets were hot after him with the very next selection.

Again, love the player, but I preferred staying put or moving down from #16 and selecting Patterson and keeping that 2nd rounder.

 

[…..]

Injuries: Austin out 3 1/4 games, Patterson out 0 games. Enough said.



No it wasn't a big hit (that's my point), but it wasn't even close to being the same situation as Jake Long. Dansby had very little of his weight on Austin. It was a simple tackle, with minimal if any roll. A sturdily built player would have gotten up with no problems. Not Austin--he's out for the remainder of the season.



Just one more of your one-sided opinions. The facts:
NFL records[edit]

• Longest kickoff return touchdown: 109 yards (October 27, 2013)
• The first NFL player to have a 100-yard kickoff return touchdown, a 75-yard touchdown catch, and a 50-yard rushing touchdown in the same season. (2013)

Minnesota Vikings franchise records[edit]

• Most kickoff return yards in a season: 1,393 (2013)
• Highest kick return average in a season: 32.4 (2013)
• Most kickoff return touchdowns in a season: 2 (2013) (tied with Percy Harvin)[17]
• Longest rushing play by a receiver: 50 yards (December 29, 2013)
• Longest play by a Viking: 109 yards (October 27, 2013)

2013 AP All-Pro.




Again, you're wrong. Watch Patterson's tape in college--he's a very physical player, often running over SEC defenders. I'll tell you what: You post the most physical play Tavon Austin has ever made and I'll post the same for Patterson. Let's decide. Austin rarely breaks an arm tackle. Patterson is faster than Sammy Watkins. So Watkins is not a true speedster? Patterson had almost double the APY and more TDs than Austin had. No, Patterson's not a jump ball WR, but infinitely more so than Austin who is an extremely limited target. And, unlike Austin, he has the physical tools to be one.

Yikes.....did beer cause this? I love beer. Great post.

 

[RamBill]

Injuries: Austin out 3 1/4 games, Patterson out 0 games. Enough said.


No it wasn't a big hit (that's my point), but it wasn't even close to being the same situation as Jake Long. Dansby had very little of his weight on Austin. It was a simple tackle, with minimal if any roll. A sturdily built player would have gotten up with no problems. Not Austin--he's out for the remainder of the season.

Simple Tackle? Minimal if any roll?

Here's the play:

That amount of torque on the ankle would have injured anyone's ankle. Has nothing to do with his size. You can see the ankle/lower leg externally rotated at least 45 degrees from normal at 1:10 in the video

 

[lockdnram21]

I'd make the trade, again. Defenses knew where he was every time he was on the field. Patterson doesn't have the same effect. Fisher held him back so he could learn the game. This year Fisher already stated he'll have a bigger role. Sure I wish he coulda had bigger numbers, but his rookie year will be seen as a mere stepping stone to the player he will become. With our stout running game, defenses will have to commit to stopping the run or they'll be dead out of the gate. Whether or not Schotty can find that perfect balance on how to run this offense is another story. I beleive.

Yea I feel he is going to have a monster year. I think Austin might be the #2. Hopefully Britt or Quick can take some pressure off of him as the #1.

 

[rams]

What? Prior to being drafted, Austin had never missed a practice much less a game in his career.

Patterson has plenty of talent but he doesn't cut like Austin. Austin's cutting ability can make him an amazing route runner once he gets it down.

Watch Patterson run with the ball, his cutting is one of his strengths. The dude can turn on a dime. I know you were speaking of Austin's cutting ability without the ball, but if Patterson can do that with the ball then I see no reason why he can't do it without. They are both similar receivers at completely different statures. Neither of them are going to be superb route runners anyway. They are more YAC receivers.