Starting to think we need to make a move or do something about our DE situation if we want a chance of repeating

[Corbin]

In a way, I wish the Rams never aquired Miller. He was our savior. We don't win it all without him. And that will be confirmed if history holds.....there hasn't been a repeat Champion since 2004. It will be so easy to say, "see we should have given him a boatload of cash and Sofi stadium to return". I think that's a load of crappola. Would I have liked VM on the 2022 Rams? Absolutely. Can we win a Championship without him or some other vet OLB? Absolutely.

The Rams were 7-1 without VM. They had 25 sacks, 35 TFL, 46 QBH, 32 PD and 12 takeaways. They allowed 103 rushing yards per game, 264 passing yards per game, 20.1 PPG. There wasn't anything wrong with the Rams defense.
With VM the Rams were 5-4. They had 25 sacks, 49 TFL, 47 QBH, 33 PD and 9 takeaways. They allowed 103 rushing yards per game, 221 passing yards per game, 19.6 PPG.
The numbers are not that different with or without VM with the exception of TFL, having 1 more per game and passing yards per game. But truth be told, sacks, QBH, PD and takeaways were all lower (per game) with him than without him. IMHO, they got him for 1 reason. The postseason.

The idea that we have to have a "Von Miller - type, veteran OLB" opposite Leonard Floyd is a fallacy. Created by an exaggeration of his impact in the regular season. His impact in the postseason was HUGE. Who's to say Hollins or TLew or Garrett can't develop into a quality OLB to give us everything VM did, sans the leadership? Our offense is just going to have to carry us a little more in 2022.

I don't think the Rams win last year without Miller.
This year? Different team. Stronger ILB and secondary play could make up for the loss.

Wagner is a good blitzer and Jones is too. But that means your blitzing, which puts more stress on a secondary.

That's easy to say and impossible to dispute definitively. Like saying, "without OBJ we don't win it all".

Dude you literally just said in your first post
"He was our savior. We don't win it all without him."
and then tell Kupped,

That's easy to say and impossible to dispute definitively. Like saying, "without OBJ we don't win it all".

Even Jared Goff doesn't get it! lol

No but honestly, you post stats etc. and that's fine but are you not going to give Von a bit of slack moving two states over? Learning a playbook and the new teammates and the directions to get basic items? Von was specifically acquired for a SB run as per the horses mouth Snead and apparent sending two draft picks for a guy who had what 6 games left on his contract?


I'm sure at somepoint a team will realize where they are and Snead will work his magic again by the trade deadline this up and coming year.

 

[PARAM]

Or, "without Cooper Kupp we don't win it all."

Miller produced at a very, very high level in the playoffs. He got his own numbers and allowed the Rams to consistently rush 4 players and still generate plenty of heat.

He had 2 sacks and 3 QB hits in the SB.. he was a force.

It's much easier to envision them *not* winning the SB without him last year than winning it.

I don't know about everybody else but in my mind, Stafford was the main reason we won the Superbowl. Take Miller away and IMHO, Stafford still finds a way to do it!!

 

[PARAM]

Dude you literally just said in your first post
"He was our savior. We don't win it all without him."
and then tell Kupped,

That was sarcasm. If you read my entire posts on this subject, that much would be crystal clear. Sorry I don't use blue font.

 

[Corbin]

That was sarcasm. If you read my entire posts on this subject, that much would be crystal clear. Sorry I don't use blue font.

Hmmmm we shall fix this blue font thing! Is it an effort thing or a dont know how thing?

 

[Kupped]

I don't know about everybody else but in my mind, Stafford was the main reason we won the Superbowl. Take Miller away and IMHO, Stafford still finds a way to do it!!

I don't.

Von didn't only get his.. his presence allows Donald to do his thing as well.

Von is a star, not some scrub. On last year's team, he was critical.
This year? We'll see.

I have my hopes that the secondary can take a significant step forward and make up for a little bit less effective pass rush.

 

[Allen2McVay]

That was sarcasm. Sorry I don't use blue font.

That makes sense.

 

[snackdaddy]

In the past our biggest defensive weakness was at ILB. That should not be the case this season. Seems like edge opposite Floyd is now the biggest weakness. Terrell Lewis is certainly talented enough to be a good edge rusher. But he will always have that caveat "When healthy".

Like it was mentioned earlier we weren't that strong on the edge a couple years ago but we were the number one defense. I think they will find a way to keep the defense strong. With Wagner we should be better against the run. Which in turn should make the opposition less balanced when forced to throw more. Obvious passing situations does make it easier for pass rushers to pin their ears back and get after the QB.

 

[majrleaged]

I don't.

Von didn't only get his.. his presence allows Donald to do his thing as well.

Von is a star, not some scrub. On last year's team, he was critical.
This year? We'll see.

I have my hopes that the secondary can take a significant step forward and make up for a little bit less effective pass rush.

So Donald being there didn't affect Miller at all? AD got his cause of miller but miller got his on his own. He was on his own because they other team was doubling AD, freeing up Miller.

 

[oldnotdead]

One way or another I see this roster finalized by the middle of June. How to fit AD's new contract and still get what they want done will take some cap magic.

Wagner gives the defense a legit blitzing ILB. He also is solid in coverage in those underneath zones. This team doesn't need a Danielle Hunter type edge because they are pretty damn good without one. But having a guy like Hunter brings this defensive front from good to elite.

Morris can manufacture sacks without a bookend edge to Floyd. His Dline of Floyd, AD, Gaines and Hollins can still pressure QBs and generate sacks. Alignments and Dline games, i.e. stunts, Dline overload, etc can generate blitz opportunities for Wagner and Jones.

I would love to have Hunter but he's a luxury item like Miller was, only he's not even 30 years old so he's young enough for a full 4 year deal.

Once Durant and Lake get up to speed this secondary will be awesome.

 

[Kupped]

So Donald being there didn't affect Miller at all? AD got his cause of miller but miller got his on his own. He was on his own because they other team was doubling AD, freeing up Miller.

Jesus.
They helped each other.

How hard is this, guys? Miller is a first ballot HOF player who was kicking ass last postseason for our Rams.

Yes, he mattered.

 

[PARAM]

I don't.

Von didn't only get his.. his presence allows Donald to do his thing as well.

Von is a star, not some scrub. On last year's team, he was critical.
This year? We'll see.

I have my hopes that the secondary can take a significant step forward and make up for a little bit less effective pass rush.

Miller allowed Donald "to do his thing" that he's been doing whether he had Von Miller, Leonard Floyd, Dante Fowler or Robert Quinn next to him? Von is a star. Von is not the same Von circa 2015 SB MVP. But he looked pretty close playing next to Aaron Donald. Like Dante Fowler, Leonard Floyd and anybody else who plays next to Donald looked pretty good.

Come on guys!!! You're talking about a guy who is a HOF lock, one of the best IF NOT THE BEST defensive player to ever play and has gotten Dante Fowler, Leonard Floyd and now Von Miller huge contracts after playing along side him. Pahleese.

Von Miller, first ballot HOFer, who had 98 sacks in his first 120 NFL games (0.81 sack per game) and then turned 30, got 8 sacks in 15 games, missed an entire year, then got 9.5 sacks in 15 more games (17 sacks in 30 games in 3 years for a .58 sacks per game average). That HOFer Von Miller?

It's not anything to be ashamed of....getting old and less productive. Lawrence Taylor turned 32 and had 7 sacks, 5 sacks and 6 sacks his last 39 games (0.46 sacks per game) retiring before turning 35 after averaging 0.85 sacks per game his first 10 years.

 

[Allen2McVay]

Miller allowed Donald "to do his thing" that he's been doing whether he had Von Miller, Leonard Floyd, Dante Fowler or Robert Quinn next to him? Von is a star. Von is not the same Von circa 2015 SB MVP. But he looked pretty close playing next to Aaron Donald. Like Dante Fowler, Leonard Floyd and anybody else who plays next to Donald looked pretty good.

How would you compare Miller's play over the final month of the season and playoffs with Fowler in the 1 and 1/2 season he played with the Rams. Would you say it was comparable, or was Miller far more dominant?

 

[PARAM]

How would you compare Miller's play over the final month of the season and playoffs with Fowler in the 1 and 1/2 season he played with the Rams. Would you say it was comparable, or was Miller far more dominant?

Comparable. I'll explain. Miller is the much better player. And Fowler was the much younger player. But Fowler looked the best he ever looked in the NFL next to Donald. Not just rushing the passer but his overall play. Miller was older when he played next to Donald but he looked better (younger) than he had in 3 seasons. As far as the postseason is concerned, Miller was fantastic, which is why the Rams got him in the first place. Great players raise their level of play when it's needed most (playoffs). And yet Dante Fowler made the play of the postseason for the 2018 Rams when he got to Brees to create the OT interception.

 

[Memento]

Honestly, I like Garrett and Hardy to take snaps from Hollins (who honestly is a run-stuffer, but still provided a fair bit of pass-rush during his time healthy) during pass-rush situations. Anything Lewis gives is a bonus.

 

[PARAM]

Honestly, I like Garrett and Hardy to take snaps from Hollins (who honestly is a run-stuffer, but still provided a fair bit of pass-rush during his time healthy) during pass-rush situations. Anything Lewis gives is a bonus.

I think they're going to do what they always do. They're going to plug in the guys they've drafted and signed (Hollins, TLew, Garrett and Hardy) and see how it goes. If they decide they need help, they'll make every effort to obtain it in a trade. If they decide they don't, we'll roll with who we have at OLB. I'm really excited to see what Garrett can do. Hollins and TLew are both talented but injury prone. No such problem with Garrett. I'm anticipating that kid will have an impact. Reminds me of a faster Leonard Little.

 

[Kupped]

Miller allowed Donald "to do his thing" that he's been doing whether he had Von Miller, Leonard Floyd, Dante Fowler or Robert Quinn next to him? Von is a star. Von is not the same Von circa 2015 SB MVP. But he looked pretty close playing next to Aaron Donald. Like Dante Fowler, Leonard Floyd and anybody else who plays next to Donald looked pretty good.

Come on guys!!! You're talking about a guy who is a HOF lock, one of the best IF NOT THE BEST defensive player to ever play and has gotten Dante Fowler, Leonard Floyd and now Von Miller huge contracts after playing along side him. Pahleese.

Von Miller, first ballot HOFer, who had 98 sacks in his first 120 NFL games (0.81 sack per game) and then turned 30, got 8 sacks in 15 games, missed an entire year, then got 9.5 sacks in 15 more games (17 sacks in 30 games in 3 years for a .58 sacks per game average). That HOFer Von Miller?

It's not anything to be ashamed of....getting old and less productive. Lawrence Taylor turned 32 and had 7 sacks, 5 sacks and 6 sacks his last 39 games (0.46 sacks per game) retiring before turning 35 after averaging 0.85 sacks per game his first 10 years.

Again.. Jesus…

We’re talking about Avon’s impact on the Rams last year. He had a significant impact, especially in the playoffs.
He allowed them to rush 4 a bunch. The Rams gave up a 2nd & 3rd for him and offered him a significant contract to come back.
Saying he helped Donald IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM DIMINISHES DONALD… we’re talking about impact on the D.
The Rams DO NOT have anyone close to Miller to play opposite Floyd. Does that mean the D is gonna suck?? NO!!!! But it’s gonna have to find ways to generate pressure this year because they won’t get the same rush with 4 up front.

 

[Kupped]

How would you compare Miller's play over the final month of the season and playoffs with Fowler in the 1 and 1/2 season he played with the Rams. Would you say it was comparable, or was Miller far more dominant?

Far more dominant.

Stats, eyeball & PFF all back that up.

 

[Kupped]

Here’s a link on how good he was in playoffs… and that doesn’t include his dominant SB performance.

Rams News: Von Miller is the top graded post season pass rusher

www.turfshowtimes.com

 

[PARAM]

Again.. Jesus…

We’re talking about Avon’s impact on the Rams last year. He had a significant impact, especially in the playoffs.
He allowed them to rush 4 a bunch. The Rams gave up a 2nd & 3rd for him and offered him a significant contract to come back.
Saying he helped Donald IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM DIMINISHES DONALD… we’re talking about impact on the D.
The Rams DO NOT have anyone close to Miller to play opposite Floyd. Does that mean the D is gonna suck?? NO!!!! But it’s gonna have to find ways to generate pressure this year because they won’t get the same rush with 4 up front.

I've been discussing the premise of the thread "starting to think we're going to have to make a move or do something about the 'DE situation' if we want a chance to repeat". It's morphed into the level of impact Von Miller had on the Rams D and I will maintain, it's exaggerated. I didn't say he didn't have an impact....in fact I said, he played lights out in the postseason. But just like not jumping on that "Von Miller won us the SB" bandwagon, doesn't mean I didn't appreciate his contribution. So exactly what are you saying?

Without Von Miller we're fucked?
Without a UFA or trade for someone we're fucked?
Or I just want to argue about Von Miller's performance for us last year but we're not fucked without him?

Because for my money, our defense helped get us to the SB twice in the last 4 years. They were a big part. In 2018, they allowed 13 points in the Big Game. In 2021, they allowed 20. Therefore, in my opinion the difference in the Rams being a SB Champion in 2021 instead of a SB Champion in 2018 and 2021 was the offense. Or lack thereof in 2018. Von Miller didn't win us the SB. Matt Stafford, Cooper Kupp, OBJ and our offense did. Because the 2018 defense performed better in the big dance than the 2021 team. And they didn't have Von Miller.

 

[Kupped]

I've been discussing the premise of the thread "starting to think we're going to have to make a move or do something about the 'DE situation' if we want a chance to repeat". It's morphed into the level of impact Von Miller had on the Rams D and I will maintain, it's exaggerated. I didn't say he didn't have an impact....in fact I said, he played lights out in the postseason. But just like not jumping on that "Von Miller won us the SB" bandwagon, doesn't mean I didn't appreciate his contribution. So exactly what are you saying?

Without Von Miller we're fucked?
Without a UFA or trade for someone we're fucked?
Or I just want to argue about Von Miller's performance for us last year but we're not fucked without him?

I’ve said, more than once, that this team will have to find different ways to generate pressure.. and I’m hopeful the secondary will be better. ILBs should be much better.

Could the Rams have won the SB last year without him? With the other losses they had on D? It would’ve been tough.

He was a difference maker in the playoffs.

There are a few players that could’ve had a similar impact… Ramsey and Kupp are probably the best comps.

Stafford & Donald are another tier, imo.

You are going to have to make up for a significant loss on D by losing him. Can they? It’s possible, but they’re gonna need several guys to step up.