Shaun Hill

[RamzFanz]

and what makes u think We would be winning with Hill. we still have same line and defense. some of those passes that Davis completed Hill wouldnt have attempted let alone made them

Excellent question. Here's what I saw in Hill in training camp that I don't see in AD:

He reads defenses very well. It allows him to drop back and pass to an open receiver before he's open. It's a fast release that will slow down the pass rush.

He reads blitzes well. He can make the reads and get rid of the ball to a hot route better than AD in my opinion. This could mean more yards, less sacks, and, ultimately, less pass rushing and blitzes against the Rams.

He throws a bomb long. It's a big arch that works well with "go up and get it" receivers. It's also a very accurate throw.

Unlike the assumptions put forth against Hill because he's 34, he's good at moving up in the pocket. Better than AD. He can also scramble when needed. Maybe even better than AD.

He is a safer play maker. His experience gives him insight into when a ball shouldn't be thrown. I don't think SH throws those pick sixes that, ultimately, lost those games.

 

[drasconis]

How is saying the same group of WRs are capable of performing as well with Hill as they are with Davis a "huge leap in logic"? If anything, you are the one who seems to be making a huge assumption. This is NOT the same group of receivers they have had in previous years. By ALL accounts, mine especially, Brian Quick was VASTLY improved from the first day of minicamp. The addition of Kenny Britt has been huge. So you thinking that Davis is the reason they have performed this way seems to be the one who's logic is a stretch.

You seem to think that the difference Hill can make is negligible. Again, I disagree. I don't believe EITHER of them are the long time answer to the QB situation here. I want this team to win as many games as possible. Even if Hill only wins one more game, than IMO, its worth it. Who's to say that they don't hold on and win the Dallas game, or don't fall 21 points behind last week against Philly if Hill is the QB? Obviously, you nor I can know the answer to that question. We obviously will agree to disagree on the best course of action in 2014. Which is all I concern myself with at this point in time.

Agree to disagree is the best place to leave this, you guys obviously feel very passionately about this and I can appreciate that.

 

[Athos]

3 out of Bradford's 4 INTs in 2013 were pick sixes. I certainly didn't give a crap about that.

Yep. What difference does it make if it is a pick 6 or if the opposing offense uses that pick to score a TD? All things the same, if a QB gets picked, and the D gives up a TD, I'd rather the INT be a pick 6, because the D doesn't see the field/get gassed/injured/etc.

There is plenty of criticism to go around, but AD had 1 good quarter that game, just like every other game.

Bullshit. That drive in the 2nd, he had us clicking down the field 50ish yards on a 5 minute drive and got absolutely buttfucked by the Refs on that OPI call on Cook. We had the Whiners reeling and likely about to go up 17-3 or 21-3. He got sacked twice on the 1st drive in the 2nd qtr. Then Shotty comes out in the 3rd, drastically changes the gameplan, and screws the whole offense over.

For all of Bradford's "faults", the one thing no one could accuse him of, was turning the ball over at the alarming rate Davis is at this point.

I remember a lot of whining early on about Sam not getting rid of the ball quickly enough, "turtling", and eating sacks he shouldn't have. Davis fault, is probably his asset. Mobility. And not just eating a sack, while protecting the ball.

What I don't think people get is that with just a few better decisions and better throws, the Rams could be 3-2 or 4-1 right now. They are right there

Makes no sense. And with a better defensive showing, hell, even a defense of mediocrity, we could have the same record. It wasn't Davis blowing a 21-0 home lead. It wasn't Davis getting burned on a double move by an old, slow vet with seconds left in the half for a TD. These are all team loses, many of them coming down to poor defensive showings.

And to say we know how Hill would perform with THIS team in a starting role, is pure speculation. None of us know that, including myself. By, IMO, he would give them a better chance to win more games, especially against the defenses that they are going to face in the coming weeks.

You say you can't now how Hill would perform, then immediately saw he'd given them a better chance to win more chances, thus insinuating he'd perform better. You can't have it both ways. You can't know either way what Hill would do. Hill could light it up or Hill could get torched worse.

And this point, it doesn't really matter a flip who the QB is with the way the defense is performing, games are being called against the Rams, and a leaky offensive line with turnstiles for lineman in Long, Wells, and Joseph.

 

[RamzFanz]

Makes no sense. And with a better defensive showing, hell, even a defense of mediocrity, we could have the same record. It wasn't Davis blowing a 21-0 home lead. It wasn't Davis getting burned on a double move by an old, slow vet with seconds left in the half for a TD. These are all team loses, many of them coming down to poor defensive showings.

I'm of the opinion that Hill would make better decisions than AD. We can't improve the players on defense or O line. That's pretty much the best we have. We CAN improve the QB play, IMO.

This week, with this team, Hill has a better chance of winning.

If we've quit worrying about wins, then by all means, keep getting AD experience.

 

[BriansRams]

Excellent question. Here's what I saw in Hill in training camp that I don't see in AD:

He reads defenses very well. It allows him to drop back and pass to an open receiver before he's open. It's a fast release that will slow down the pass rush.

He reads blitzes well. He can make the reads and get rid of the ball to a hot route better than AD in my opinion. This could mean more yards, less sacks, and, ultimately, less pass rushing and blitzes against the Rams.

He throws a bomb long. It's a big arch that works well with "go up and get it" receivers. It's also a very accurate throw.

Unlike the assumptions put forth against Hill because he's 34, he's good at moving up in the pocket. Better than AD. He can also scramble when needed. Maybe even better than AD.

He is a safer play maker. His experience gives him insight into when a ball shouldn't be thrown. I don't think SH throws those pick sixes that, ultimately, lost those games.

This is absolutely accurate. I agree.

 

[jjab360]

How is staying silent for weeks and then resurfacing the Hill potential after FOUR losses trolling?!?

Dude, you don't get what CoachO and I are saying WE think to be true. That's not an insult.

I'll retract the "get it" remark and substitute "see it like we do". How's that?

Oh please, the only reason you stayed "silent" is because Davis was playing well. First time he has one below average game (which btw, was about the same result as when Bradford played SF last year), here we go again. Get over it dude, Hill is not what you think he is.

 

[blue4]

We have one sack after 5 games. Our run defense is poor. We get jobbed by the refs every single game in a spectacularly obvious fashion and only Rams fans seem to care. Other teams want to get to 3rd down, because they know a successful play is coming. Our WRs are sloppy. Our starting LT is poor. Our 2nd overall pick is an OLineman and can't pass block. Our C and RG are so poorly rated it's not worth even talking about. We are out coached every game. I like Shaun Hill, but he's only good enough to expect to win when things are working. Doesn't matter what happened in training camp, most of our players looked great, that's why there was optimism. As Maury would say, "We know that was a lie." Are we really going to salvage a playoff season here? Maybe if Davis was why we are losing, but even the Hill support can't say that. So why play him, makes no sense.

 

[BriansRams]

You say you can't now how Hill would perform, then immediately saw he'd given them a better chance to win more chances, thus insinuating he'd perform better. You can't have it both ways. You can't know either way what Hill would do. Hill could light it up or Hill could get torched worse.

And THAT is why Hill needs to start against the Hawks. We have only seen him as a RAM for 1 quarter this year. And he will make fewer INT and SACK mistakes with his knowledge of the game.

 

[RamzFanz]

Oh please, the only reason you stayed "silent" is because Davis was playing well. First time he has one below average game (which btw, was about the same result as when Bradford played SF last year), here we go again. Get over it dude, Hill is not what you think he is.

You know what Jab, it's NOT OK to assign a motive to someone else. I'm sick of you doing it. You want to debate the value of 1-4 AD over seeing what Hill has, fine. But get over your insults.

 

[jjab360]

You know what Jab, it's NOT OK to assign a motive to someone else. I'm sick of you doing it. You want to debate the value of 1-4 AD over seeing what Hill has, fine. But get over your insults.

Fine, I'm done here. Carry on with your crusade of irrationality.

 

[RamzFanz]

Maybe if Davis was why we are losing, but even the Hill support can't say that. So why play him, makes no sense.

Davis isn't why the Rams are losing, but he's the only reason they aren't winning where we have another option. He's missed throws. A LOT of throws. He's taken sacks I don't think Hill would take. He's thrown picks and pick sixes.

I'm not even saying Hill is better. I'm saying he's different and different in a way that would work better on this team. Just my opinion.

So, yes, if Fisher hadn't of pulled Hill I think Rams are still in the hunt and if Fisher starts AD against the Hawks, Rams will lose and lose big. You can't start an inaccurate passer against that secondary. You can't start a guy who can't read blitzes against Seattle with this O-Line.

I HOPE I'm dead wrong. Won't be the first time.

 

[Prime Time]

Relax, no need to get heated up over this. Austin Davis will be starting Sunday, and into the foreseeable future barring injury, whether some here like it or not. He's played what, 4 and a half games in the NFL? He has mobility and guts but he doesn't throw a pretty ball nor does he read defenses well at this point. Well duh, he's just getting started.

In his first season Peyton Manning threw 26 TD passes and had 28 int's and the Colts went 3-13. They lost 9 out of their first ten games. In his first two games Brett Favre completed 0 passes and threw 2 ints. Not saying that AD will ever come close to having a similar career as those two QB greats but give the man a chance to prove himself over an entire season. There's nothing like game experience for an NFL player.

 

[CoachO]

Oh please, the only reason you stayed "silent" is because Davis was playing well. First time he has one below average game (which btw, was about the same result as when Bradford played SF last year), here we go again. Get over it dude, Hill is not what you think he is.

and how do you know what Hill is, or what he can be with THIS team?

And you may accuse RamzFanz of staying "silent",, I know you know I have not been shy about sharing my concerns about Davis since the day the named him the starter. Just figured there's no point in forcing the issue when so many refused to see any other POV on the matter. He lit up the FF numbers, so he must be playing well.

 

[blue4]

Davis isn't why the Rams are losing, but he's the only reason they aren't winning where we have another option. He's missed throws. A LOT of throws. He's taken sacks I don't think Hill would take. He's thrown picks and pick sixes.

I'm not even saying Hill is better. I'm saying he's different and different in a way that would work better on this team. Just my opinion.

So, yes, if Fisher hadn't of pulled Hill I think Rams are still in the hunt and if Fisher starts AD against the Hawks, Rams will lose and lose big. You can't start an inaccurate passer against that secondary. You can't start a guy who can't read blitzes against Seattle with this O-Line.

I HOPE I'm dead wrong. Won't be the first time.

I don't think it would matter at all. I very much disagree he's the only reason we are not winning. I don't think the Rams would be a single victory better. Davis has thrown some picks, but he's thrown some great TD's as well, and made some big drives. I don't see how replacing the QB makes our horrific interior line suddenly start blocking. I don't see how anyone can say all the miscommunications are on Davis when the WRs frequently display an appalling lack of situational awareness. Does the QB have a single thing to do with the awful defense? STs have fallen off as well. No, I think it's much more likely all of us severely overestimated the capabilities of this team as a whole. I'm as guilty as the next. I ignored the question marks surrounding the OL. I assumed since the WRs were playing well in TC against our DBs that they made strides in their growth.

Look, I was in favor of Hill returning when he could. I posted some of that before. That was before I thought the season was lost. I do think it is now. And our QB position is unsettled for 2015. So playing Davis may clear some of that up. If we take him out now, the next 5 years we'll be talking about what might have been. A whole lot of this....."We need to pull Davis off the bench. Get (insert 1st rd pick name here) out of here, Davis has shown in the past."

 

[jjab360]

and how do you know what Hill is, or what he can be with THIS team?

And you may accuse RamzFanz of staying "silent",, I know you know I have not been shy about sharing my concerns about Davis since the day the named him the starter. Just figured there's no point in forcing the issue when so many refused to see any other POV on the matter. He lit up the FF numbers, so he must be playing well.

I didn't accuse RamzFanz of staying silent, that's what he said himself. And yes, you posted your condescending fantasy football argument many times the past few weeks, iirc.

 

[CoachO]

I didn't accuse RamzFanz of staying silent, that's what he said himself. And yes, you posted your condescending fantasy football argument many times the past few weeks, iirc.

because you are the most non judgmental poster on here,,, carry on!

 

[Ramathon]

Hill wouldn't have lost this game. I'm almost positive of that. Davis blew a dozen opportunities.

What I don't understand is why there seems to be so much anti-Hill sentiment. He played one half of one regular season game for the Rams. And threw one bad pick at the end of that half. It was bad, yes....but to that point in the game, he'd looked decent.

Though I didn't always agree with it, I kinda.....mostly understood why Bradford drew so much ire from fans. He had a BIG contract, and even his staunchest supporters would have to agree he didn't really live up to it after several yrs of opportunities. So, I get that. But what's the deal with Hill?

By contrast, Davis has thrown 2 picks on the last drive of 2 different games that, had they been able to score instead, would have put the team in position to at least go into OT if not outright win those games. But yet, 86% of the voters in this poll still want him to start the next game?!?! What?!?! If Bradford had thrown those 2 picks, he would be receiving death threats....I'd bet money on it.

Now, I'm not against continuing to start AD. But only because I see so many holes in this team that, as much as I hate to say it, the chances of them making a playoff run this year are the proverbial 'slim and none', IMO. So, might as well see if AD can make progress as a starting QB.

But if I were to play the odds and do what I really believe gives the best chance of winning the most games this year, I would have to start
Hill.

 

[Ramathon]

Lol, dude, AD made some horrible throws with all kinds of time. We need to walk away from the excuses. SCHOTTY was terrible, but AD was almost as bed. He over threw a half dozen passes at least.

And at least once in each of the last 2 games, it's been clear that AD & Quick weren't on the same page on individual plays. I.e., Quick broke into the field and AD threw to the outside, or vice versa. Now, maybe both of those situations are on Quick. But we don't know....they both could easily have been on AD.

 

[blue4]

What I don't understand is why there seems to be so much anti-Hill sentiment. He played one half of one regular season game for the Rams. And threw one bad pick at the end of that half. It was bad, yes....but to that point in the game, he'd looked decent.

Though I didn't always agree with it, I kinda.....mostly understood why Bradford drew so much ire from fans. He had a BIG contract, and even his staunchest supporters would have to agree he didn't really live up to it after several yrs of opportunities. So, I get that. But what's the deal with Hill?

By contrast, Davis has thrown 2 picks on the last drive of 2 different games that, had they been able to score instead, would have put the team in position to at least go into OT if not outright win those games. But yet, 86% of the voters in this poll still want him to start the next game?!?! What?!?! If Bradford had thrown those 2 picks, he would be receiving death threats....I'd bet money on it.

Now, I'm not against continuing to start AD. But only because I see so many holes in this team that, as much as I hate to say it, the chances of them making a playoff run this year are the proverbial 'slim and none', IMO. So, might as well see if AD can make progress as a starting QB.

But if I were to play the odds and do what I really believe gives the best chance of winning the most games this year, I would have to start
Hill.

I don't see Hill hate, I see Hill indifference. I see a fan base that has heard the "its the QB" talk since Warner left.

 

[Dxmissile]

Of course a guy with only 4 games experience will have problems with reading blitzes and footwork. That's not just all on him though either as a play caller you have to recognize that your blockers aren't picking up their assignments why not go more screens and quick slants to get the ball out. All I'm saying is people seem to get on Davis so hard that you forget it's only his 4th game EVER against the niners he fared better than Bradford last year. Every game he has gotten better he faced a different type of defense this time but history his history shows that Austin Davis Can Make Adjustments AND He will