Shaun Hill

[RamzFanz]

From what I've seen from the Rams O line and AD, he's going to get absolutely pummeled by the Hawks.

You can't have a guy who can't read blitzes playing behind a weak O line against Seattle and think there is any hope at all for him.

AD fans should want him out this week at least because he may not survive the game uninjured.

 

[jrry32]

I like Davis as a person and a QB. He's exciting. However, the best thing to do now, since we are 1-4 is:

Start Hill and see if we can start winning immediately, in a crazy effort to save the season, have a miracle and slip in as a wild card.
If Hill (and entire team) does not win the next 2 games, go back to Davis.

It doesn't work like that. Do you remember it being noted how disappointed Hill sounded when he learned Davis was the starter? These are people. You can't just pull Davis and reinsert him if things don't go well. Pulling him is going to have an effect on his confidence. And to make matters worse, it's going to have him looking over his shoulder constantly...which means that he's going to fear making a mistake that might get him the hook. You can't have a QB that doubts himself. You can't have a QB that fears mistakes.

You gotta make your decision and stick by it. If you pull Davis now, you're starting Hill for the year or until he gets hurt. You can't play musical chairs with QBs. It doesn't work. It's a position where stability and confidence are everything.

 

[Thordaddy]

@CoachO What I don't think people get is that with just a few better decisions and better throws, the Rams could be 3-2 or 4-1 right now. They are right there.

That's not AD bashing or excusing the other players, but those were winnable games with a QB who's experienced and protects the ball. Hill also has a better "go up and get it" ball that comes down on the receiver instead of sailing over their heads. It COULD be perfect for this receiving corps.

Dude , get? because people don't agree they don't "get it",no they don't agree THAT what you think they need to "get" is the gospel.
What some value in Davis you apparently don't ,he's got escapability that Hill doesn't have and like i said before Fisher has made his decision and promised the kid he doesn't need to look over his shoulder the job is his,he played well enough to be in the game in the final minutes of game with teams expected to be in the mix for the SB,you can pound the table all you like ,I don't think you are going to get Hill and at some point when we keep pounding the table it becomes trolling an issue ,that's why I quit posting about the refs. this AM ,sooner or later you appear to be forcing your opinion (your is used generically here) I include myself in that .

 

[drasconis]

I have never said that Austin Davis is why this team lost last night, or any of the other 3 games. What I have said, and maintain, is he is not the QB, IMO, that many in here seem to want to make him out to be. Because he throws for a ton of yardage, and makes that "WOW" play once or twice a game, they seem to want to overlook the critical and major mistakes he continues to make.

And while I admit that Bradford has thrown his share of "pick 6's", he did it few and far between compared to the pace that Davis is on. For all of Bradford's "faults", the one thing no one could accuse him of, was turning the ball over at the alarming rate Davis is at this point.

I don't think anyone here is saying he is the next great thing....what most are saying is we do not know, but there has been enough upside to make us believe it needs to be fully checked out. I believe he is young and hasn't had enough real game experience thus there are going to be plenty of mistakes, that said he has shown enough upside to warrent that shot on THIS team. The fact is we aren't benching a probowler here, is is playing overa career backup, someone who has enough time and tape to know what they are. The reality is even if you switch to Hill this team won't make the playoffs (no 10 wins for the season willnot happen /sigh) in fact they will be lucky to break 4 wins. So, yes I will take fewer wins and some youngster mistakes (this year, under these conditions) to test the kid out.

Hill is an old QB. The fact is he is to the point in his career where we and everyone else know what he is. He doesn't have 5-6 more years of good play in him, he has 5-6 more years to be a veteran backup for teams. It is what he is. Still not sure how this reciever corps is propping anyone up, they aren't that good, or haven't shown that they are until Davis showed up...

 

[CoachO]

He hasn't thrown four pick sixes. He's thrown three. The Dallas one is inexcusable. The other two don't really matter much to me.

I'm fine with either approach. I just want a functional offense.

I will say this, he's not Drew Brees. I know people are excited but it was time his hype train slowed down some. However, I gotta believe if they don't screw us on that Cook call...Davis finishes with a strong outing against SF.

He needs to improve but I think he's FLASHED a Romo type ceiling. Not sold he'll get anywhere close to that. But he's flashed it. I wouldn't be a bit surprised, though, if he ends up being a Ryan Fitzpatrick type player. I need to see more from him but I've seen enough good that I think it's worth getting him more experience. The bad hasn't been overwhelming.



If you're calling his play poor, we can stop the conversation here. I am fine with a rational discussion but I am not going to spend time having a discussion that isn't rational. Davis's play has been inconsistent but it hasn't been poor.

The reason for qualifying that statement is that expectations have been a bit high for him and your comment that he was close to being cut and out of the league. Well, he didn't get cut and he's actually played really well for a backup. Which is worth pointing out because backup QBs are valuable in the NFL.

What matters to me, though, is how he plays for a STARTER...and that's still unresolved. I want to see how he rebounds. And, of course, I want to see how he deals with Seattle's insanely talented defense.

However, as I said, lets not holding him to higher standards than Bradford. Sam had some bad games against SF and Seattle...especially when the OL wasn't getting the job done.

I should have said POOR DECISIONS and POOR PLAYS,,, not overall poor play. But we will just agree to disagree regarding is ceiling. And he was a week away from being cut for the 3rd time. Not sure how you can debate that. He wasn't the 3rd string QB before Bradford went down, he was a distant 4th. And that is based on what I saw EVERY DAY is training camp and the next to nothing reps he got on a daily basis.

The only reason he was elevated ahead of Gilbert, was it became obvious that they were going to need him as the backup, once Bradford was out of the equation. Gilbert simply was not ready for that role. It's also the same reason they brought him back last year. I readily admit I have a hard time getting past that FACT. So if that clouds my objectivity, so be it. But I also see many of the same issues in these games, that have watched in camp each of the past 3 training camps. For me, it's not a case of what his ceiling is, its when does he come back to earth and be the guy I think he is, and the guy the coaching staff thought he was each of the past 3 years.

 

[HometownBoy]

Reminds me of the Boller situation a few years ago, a guy who shouldn't get in and doesn't, but because he's something new and fascinating everybody wants him out there because he's mysterious.

I don't because he's a 30+ year old that was nicked up in the FIRST HALF of the Vikings game, why should I have any confidence in him that he'll survive, let alone flourish as our field general? Stories out on our o-line, blitz them and they'll fail each time, how is he going to survive Seattle and the Whiners if he can't even survive the Vikings?

Lets not BS here, Davis' mobility and ability to escape is half of the reason we're still in the games we were, we had no business being in it offensively, but his athleticism is what kept those drives going. What has Hill shown that makes you think he could provide better?

 

[BriansRams]

It doesn't work like that. Do you remember it being noted how disappointed Hill sounded when he learned Davis was the starter? These are people. You can't just pull Davis and reinsert him if things don't go well. Pulling him is going to have an effect on his confidence. And to make matters worse, it's going to have him looking over his shoulder constantly...which means that he's going to fear making a mistake that might get him the hook. You can't have a QB that doubts himself. You can't have a QB that fears mistakes.

You gotta make your decision and stick by it. If you pull Davis now, you're starting Hill for the year or until he gets hurt. You can't play musical chairs with QBs. It doesn't work. It's a position where stability and confidence are everything.

Thanks for your comments, but that was my opinion and I'm certainly entitled to it. My first and foremost desire? To make the playoffs this year. Until that it mathematically out of the question, I think that Hill should go back in. AFTER we are mathematically out, then get Davis the experience in games he needs, and look at him further. But just saying "we will be 4-12 this season so keep playing Davis" doesn't mean that we will be 4-12 this season. There is always hope. There needs to be. And the team needs to keep trying. Worrying about a professional's confidence is not a priority. Winning games is a priority. And Davis has just made to many terrible throws (INTs and Innacurate) to convince me that he should start again next week.

We did NOT see enough of Hill as a Ram. We owe it to ourselves to see if he can stabilize this offense. That's all I'm saying. Once mathematically out of the playoffs, sit Hill and go with Davis.

 

[CoachO]

I don't think anyone here is saying he is the next great thing....what most are saying is we do not know, but there has been enough upside to make us believe it needs to be fully checked out. I believe he is young and hasn't had enough real game experience thus there are going to be plenty of mistakes, that said he has shown enough upside to warrent that shot on THIS team. The fact is we aren't benching a probowler here, is is playing overa career backup, someone who has enough time and tape to know what they are. The reality is even if you switch to Hill this team won't make the playoffs (no 10 wins for the season willnot happen /sigh) in fact they will be lucky to break 4 wins. So, yes I will take fewer wins and some youngster mistakes (this year, under these conditions) to test the kid out.

Hill is an old QB. The fact is he is to the point in his career where we and everyone else know what he is. He doesn't have 5-6 more years of good play in him, he has 5-6 more years to be a veteran backup for teams. It is what he is. Still not sure how this reciever corps is propping anyone up, they aren't that good, or haven't shown that they are until Davis showed up...

.....so now Davis is the reason the the WR corp is somehow better than they were? Hill is OLD? so he can't make the WR's perform at the same level as Davis?

If you want to say YOU are ok with losing games to see what Davis is capable of, I can understand that. I just choose not to agree with it.

And to say we know how Hill would perform with THIS team in a starting role, is pure speculation. None of us know that, including myself. By, IMO, he would give them a better chance to win more games, especially against the defenses that they are going to face in the coming weeks.

 

[BriansRams]

.....so now Davis is the reason the the WR corp is somehow better than they were? Hill is OLD? so he can't make the WR's perform at the same level as Davis?

If you want to say YOU are ok with losing games to see what Davis is capable of, I can understand that. I just choose not to agree with it.

And to say we know how Hill would perform with THIS team is a starting role, is pure speculation. None of us know that, including myself. By, IMO, he would give them a better chance to win more games, especially against the defenses that they are going to face in the coming weeks.

Me be totally agreeing. That is what I'm trying to say here.

 

[Yamahopper]

and yet, you have seen 2 quarters of Shawn Hill is a game where he was the least of this teams issues. In a game where offensive penalties killed any chance of them sustaining any drives.

Anyone you says they can make a fair assessment of what Shawn Hill can or cannot do with THIS offense based off his "career" is doing nothing but speculating. But saying that its more than likely he would NOT be making the same sort of critical mistakes, based on experience alone, seems pretty reasonable to me. I'm just saying.

And please spare me the "unbiased opinion" mumbo jumbo. Everyone is here is biased in their opinion.

But isn't it speculation that thinking Hill could do more with this offense speculation? Based on some good games in 08 before he lost his starting job? How do we know he would have done any better? I agree with Jrry I think, Against that rush he wouldn't have made it to half time.

And yes there are some Unbiased fans here. We just want the team to win regardless of the players name. So spare me the Mumbo Jumbo.

 

[CoachO]

But isn't it speculation that thinking Hill could do more with this offense speculation? Based on some good games in 08 before he lost his starting job? How do we know he would have done any better? I agree with Jrry I think, Against that rush he wouldn't have made it to half time.

And yes there are some Unbiased fans here. We just want the team to win regardless of the players name. So spare me the Mumbo Jumbo.

I have never said it wasn't speculation on my part. And no one wants this team to win more than I do. That doesn't mean I am not entitled to have an opinion, even if it differs with yours.

I obviously have seen Hill in a situation up close and personal, as well as Davis, over more than just what he has done in a month as the starter, to be able to form MY opinion.

You can attack me for being biased and claim to be above that because since your opinion is DIFFERENT you somehow are UNbiased. please!!!!!

 

[RamzFanz]

Dude , get? because people don't agree they don't "get it",no they don't agree THAT what you think they need to "get" is the gospel.
What some value in Davis you apparently don't ,he's got escapability that Hill doesn't have and like i said before Fisher has made his decision and promised the kid he doesn't need to look over his shoulder the job is his,he played well enough to be in the game in the final minutes of game with teams expected to be in the mix for the SB,you can pound the table all you like ,I don't think you are going to get Hill and at some point when we keep pounding the table it becomes trolling an issue ,that's why I quit posting about the refs. this AM ,sooner or later you appear to be forcing your opinion (your is used generically here) I include myself in that .

This is a thread and poll about Hill. That post was directed at CoachO. Why click on it if you didn't want to discuss him? YOU are trolling my thread acting like not hailing AD as the only QB on the team is some sin.

My point is, and has always been, I believe Hill is the better QB and Fisher was wrong to pull him. I've been silent about it for weeks. Now we are 1-4. How many more losses that could have been wins are required before I can mention that we have an experienced QB named Hill again?

 

[jrry32]

I should have said POOR DECISIONS and POOR PLAYS,,, not overall poor play. But we will just agree to disagree regarding is ceiling. And he was a week away from being cut for the 3rd time. Not sure how you can debate that. He wasn't the 3rd string QB before Bradford went down, he was a distant 4th. And that is based on what I saw EVERY DAY is training camp and the next to nothing reps he got on a daily basis.

The only reason he was elevated ahead of Gilbert, was it became obvious that they were going to need him as the backup, once Bradford was out of the equation. Gilbert simply was not ready for that role. It's also the same reason they brought him back last year. I readily admit I have a hard time getting past that FACT. So if that clouds my objectivity, so be it. But I also see many of the same issues in these games, that have watched in camp each of the past 3 training camps. For me, it's not a case of what his ceiling is, its when does he come back to earth and be the guy I think he is, and the guy the coaching staff thought he was each of the past 3 years.

I'm not arguing whether he would or wouldn't have been cut. I didn't think he should have made the team. I am arguing that is irrelevant now that he's playing.

Who is to say where he is...isn't earth? I'm not talking stats, I'm talking play.

Thanks for your comments, but that was my opinion and I'm certainly entitled to it. My first and foremost desire? To make the playoffs this year. Until that it mathematically out of the question, I think that Hill should go back in. AFTER we are mathematically out, then get Davis the experience in games he needs, and look at him further. But just saying "we will be 4-12 this season so keep playing Davis" doesn't mean that we will be 4-12 this season. There is always hope. There needs to be. And the team needs to keep trying. Worrying about a professional's confidence is not a priority. Winning games is a priority. And Davis has just made to many terrible throws (INTs and Innacurate) to convince me that he should start again next week.

We did NOT see enough of Hill as a Ram. We owe it to ourselves to see if he can stabilize this offense. That's all I'm saying. Once mathematically out of the playoffs, sit Hill and go with Davis.

It should be. If you think it's worth seeing what he can be.

 

[BriansRams]

It should be. If you think it's worth seeing what he can be.

It's NOT more important than trying to win games. Wins and Losses is everything in the NFL. Everything.

 

[drasconis]

.....so now Davis is the reason the the WR corp is somehow better than they were? Hill is OLD? so he can't make the WR's perform at the same level as Davis?

If you want to say YOU are ok with losing games to see what Davis is capable of, I can understand that. I just choose not to agree with it.

And to say we know how Hill would perform with THIS team in a starting role, is pure speculation. None of us know that, including myself. By, IMO, he would give them a better chance to win more games, especially against the defenses that they are going to face in the coming weeks.

Coach that is just taking what I said out of context. I am saying that you can't say this WR corps is propping up Davis at this point. There isn't a single proven WR on this team, saying that they are propping up Hill when they have never performed so well is a huge jump in logic.

I get it you want to win now, and thus you want the best chance at that. I tend to look more long term. The fact is teams around this league have gone with the younger guy to get them reps and experience and see what they have over the "veteran" fora long time. No you do not do that if you have a shot at the playoffs (usually though soem do it even then), or if you are borderline to keep your job. If I though HIll would win us significant number of games then I would be with you and go with him - I just don't. I think you are talking aobut the difference between winning 4 or 5 games. At this point I would rather see what Davis has and thus have a better clue going into next offseason (especially if the upside is that we do NOT need to draft a high round QB). To me it is a cost /risk investment.

 

[Thordaddy]

This is a thread and poll about Hill. That post was directed at CoachO. Why click on it if you didn't want to discuss him? YOU are trolling my thread acting like not hailing AD as the only QB on the team is some sin.

My point is, and has always been, I believe Hill is the better QB and Fisher was wrong to pull him. I've been silent about it for weeks. Now we are 1-4. How many more losses that could have been wins are required before I can mention that we have an experienced QB named Hill again?

You don't and never did need my permission to post whatever you want to post NOR do i need your permission to observe what I did,I understand you were talking TO O but the people you were talking ABOUT have every right to call you on it,and I count myself among them.
Your assumption that we would be better than we are with Hill isn't something anyone needs to "get" it's an opinion one others don't share do you "get" that ?
And FWIW this hyperbola about me saying anything remotely close to this " acting like not hailing AD as the only QB on the team is some sin." is just over the top .
Fisher has made a decision he has reasons,I agree with enough of those reasons to support his decision is as far as I've gone on that , you are free to disagree and be as vocal as you like,but as I said at some point it crosses into petulance and becomes so adamant it's trolling,now if you want to go further into this I'll do it in PM ,maybe there you can make me "get it'.

 

[lockdnram21]

This is a thread and poll about Hill. That post was directed at CoachO. Why click on it if you didn't want to discuss him? YOU are trolling my thread acting like not hailing AD as the only QB on the team is some sin.

My point is, and has always been, I believe Hill is the better QB and Fisher was wrong to pull him. I've been silent about it for weeks. Now we are 1-4. How many more losses that could have been wins are required before I can mention that we have an experienced QB named Hill again?

so your blaming all these losses on davis? i hope ththats not what your saying.

 

[lockdnram21]

This is a thread and poll about Hill. That post was directed at CoachO. Why click on it if you didn't want to discuss him? YOU are trolling my thread acting like not hailing AD as the only QB on the team is some sin.

My point is, and has always been, I believe Hill is the better QB and Fisher was wrong to pull him. I've been silent about it for weeks. Now we are 1-4. How many more losses that could have been wins are required before I can mention that we have an experienced QB named Hill again?

and what makes u think We would be winning with Hill. we still have same line and defense. some of those passes that Davis completed Hill wouldnt have attempted let alone made them

 

[jrry32]

It's NOT more important than trying to win games. Wins and Losses is everything in the NFL. Everything.

And that's precisely the issue. Shaun Hill isn't Peyton Manning. The guy doesn't give us some great chance to win games with the way our team has played.

Right now, this season doesn't look like it'll go anywhere. Gotta plan for the future. And if Davis has the ability to be something...he's a lot more valuable as an asset to us than a few meaningless wins in 2014. Davis proving to be our QB of the future means more in terms of wins and losses over the long haul than Hill would in a few games this year.

That's assuming that Hill offers us a better chance to win today...which I don't believe. So throwing Hill in there because he might offer a better chance doesn't do much good for us when it'll come at the cost of crushing Davis's confidence.

Little reward for a decent sized risk.

 

[RamzFanz]

so your blaming all these losses on davis? i hope ththats not what your saying.

Nope, and I never have. I've always stated that there are other issues. What I DO think is that elevated QB play would have resulted in wins even with the other issues. There were many opportunities to change those games that AD wasn't able to capitalize on that, in my opinion, Hill probably could have.

 

[CoachO]

Coach that is just taking what I said out of context. I am saying that you can't say this WR corps is propping up Davis at this point. There isn't a single proven WR on this team, saying that they are propping up Hill when they have never performed so well is a huge jump in logic.

I get it you want to win now, and thus you want the best chance at that. I tend to look more long term. The fact is teams around this league have gone with the younger guy to get them reps and experience and see what they have over the "veteran" fora long time. No you do not do that if you have a shot at the playoffs (usually though soem do it even then), or if you are borderline to keep your job. If I though HIll would win us significant number of games then I would be with you and go with him - I just don't. I think you are talking aobut the difference between winning 4 or 5 games. At this point I would rather see what Davis has and thus have a better clue going into next offseason (especially if the upside is that we do NOT need to draft a high round QB). To me it is a cost /risk investment.

How is saying the same group of WRs are capable of performing as well with Hill as they are with Davis a "huge leap in logic"? If anything, you are the one who seems to be making a huge assumption. This is NOT the same group of receivers they have had in previous years. By ALL accounts, mine especially, Brian Quick was VASTLY improved from the first day of minicamp. The addition of Kenny Britt has been huge. So you thinking that Davis is the reason they have performed this way seems to be the one who's logic is a stretch.

You seem to think that the difference Hill can make is negligible. Again, I disagree. I don't believe EITHER of them are the long time answer to the QB situation here. I want this team to win as many games as possible. Even if Hill only wins one more game, than IMO, its worth it. Who's to say that they don't hold on and win the Dallas game, or don't fall 21 points behind last week against Philly if Hill is the QB? Obviously, you nor I can know the answer to that question. We obviously will agree to disagree on the best course of action in 2014. Which is all I concern myself with at this point in time.

 

[RamzFanz]

as I said at some point it crosses into petulance and becomes so adamant it's trolling

How is staying silent for weeks and then resurfacing the Hill potential after FOUR losses trolling?!?

Dude, you don't get what CoachO and I are saying WE think to be true. That's not an insult.

I'll retract the "get it" remark and substitute "see it like we do". How's that?