Redskins Cheerleader-Gate

[jrry32]

I assume this is with the working understanding that what cases get prosecuted has more to do with winability than justice?
Prosecution, defense.
Rats and leeches.

To some degree. Prosecuting an unwinnable case does nobody any good. It would be nice if you showed a little respect for the service those people provide.

 

[fearsomefour]

Hang on, one of my irl best friends just became a prosecutor. Let's go easy on them; they do play a role in society.

They do.
Herpes plays a role in society too.

 

[fearsomefour]

To some degree. Prosecuting an unwinnable case does nobody any good. It would be nice if you showed a little respect for the service those people provide.

No need to in my estimation.
But, that's fine.

 

[nighttrain]

a society without laws is unlivable, must have law
train

 

[jrry32]

No need to in my estimation.
But, that's fine.

That's quite disappointing. I'll leave it at that.

 

[fearsomefour]

That's quite disappointing. I'll leave it at that.

I agree.

 

[Dieter the Brock]

I gotta re-read the story cause I don't see where the controversy is coming from other than it was poor form to invite boosters while doing a topless shoot - yeah that's a bit outta line but nobody ripped off their tops. yeah it'a a tacky story. The league is looking into it and the Redskin org is too.... I mean is this really about little girls as cheerleaders and when or when it's not okay to ogle boobies

All i know is when my dad took me to the Ram games as a 12 year old kid first thing i did when I got my time with the binoculars was to go straight to that smoking hot Mexican gal and that blonde woman who was rather mesmerizing - i can still see her face and body on the sidelines of Anaheim stadium all these years later

Yeah - cheerleaders are for ogling
Sorry for those who think ass grabbing sequins hot pants aren't gonna make me wonder about things.

The cheeleaders tools are called Pom Poms....

I mean we should take doen the boobie thread in solidarity with the Redskin Cheerleaders

I like boobies.
Boobies are good
They are models

But to seriously have this kinda debate over it?

 

[Dieter the Brock]

To some degree. Prosecuting an unwinnable case does nobody any good. It would be nice if you showed a little respect for the service those people provide.

I have a great lawyer. The dude is beloved by many

 

[fearsomefour]

I have a great lawyer. The dude is beloved by many

Well, everyone loves THEIR lawyer. Haha.

 

[Dieter the Brock]

Well, everyone loves THEIR lawyer. Haha.

Would you believe you love him too?

Here he is as a kid

Here he is now

Jeff is the best dude ever
Cohen and Gardner

P.S. Here is @-X- brother rocking it with Chuck L
THE ATTORNEY THAT ROCKS

 

[Karate61]

But to seriously have this kinda debate over it?

I'm all down with binoculars, pom poms and ogling. I think the debate here is when the line crosses over ogling into something more, unacceptably more.

 

[Dieter the Brock]

I'm all down with binoculars, pom poms and ogling. I think the debate here is when the line crosses over ogling into something more, unacceptably more.

Yes, but what exactly is that?
The boosters being present and the requests to entertain them during a social event?
It just doesn't scream injustice to me

 

[jrry32]

Yes, but what exactly is that?
The boosters being present and the requests to entertain them during a social event?
It just doesn't scream injustice to me

It does to me. Especially when you hide that from them before the trip and pressure them into it while they're stuck there.

 

[fearsomefour]

Would you believe you love him too?

Here he is as a kid

View attachment 25102

Here he is now

View attachment 25103

Jeff is the best dude ever
Cohen and Gardner

P.S. Here is @-X- brother rocking it with Chuck L
THE ATTORNEY THAT ROCKS

View attachment 25104

Haha.
Chuck Liddell lives close to my folks.
Or did up until a few years ago, don't know if he stilll does.
Nice guy from what my dad says. Ran into him a couple of times at the store (it's a small town). My dad said he seemed a little punchy when he saw him last.
Loved Chuck back in the day.

 

[Karate61]

Yes, but what exactly is that?
The boosters being present and the requests to entertain them during a social event?
It just doesn't scream injustice to me

Well, that's hard to answer exactly in some cases. I think it's kind of like how porn was once defined..."You know it when you see it." This Redskins cheerleader deal does seem somewhat innocuous. More like a traffic ticket vs. a felony. But as I mentioned earlier, we weren't there. So, if one of those ladies felt like a line was crossed, we should hear her out, if she chooses to share.

 

[Prime Time]

Just saw the Today show where two former Cheerleaders completely contradicted this story as far as "THEY THEMSELVES" saw it.

And that is the key "THEY THEMSELVES"

They were there and never felt like they were forced to be topless. They were asked and they declined.

However, they do not know what the other ladies felt. The other ladies may have felt forced to do it due to the circumstances but the reality is that there were no repercussions if they didn't do it. But some of the ladies felt they were being forced.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...nd-team-deny-pimping-situation-during-n871356

Ex-Washington Redskins cheerleaders defend team, deny 'pimping' situation during Costa Rica trip
One former cheerleader said, "If it was something you didn't feel comfortable with, you were able to not make that a part of your experience."
by Erik Ortiz

Former Washington Redskins cheerleaders pushed back Friday against explosive allegations in which fellow squad members said they were required to pose topless or pressured to serve as escorts during a racy trip to Costa Rica in 2013.

Although sex wasn't involved, the cheerleaders felt as if the arrangement by the team's director amounted to "pimping us out," according to a New York Times report first published online Wednesday.

Two former NFL cheerleaders who went on the trip also told NBC News that the Times' report was true. But four others have come forward to say they were never asked to do anything against their will — and stood firmly on the side of their ex-employer.

"In all my six years, I never took off my top," former cheerleader Maya Bonello told the "Today" show. "Regardless of whether you took your top off or not, that was always a choice."

"If it was something you didn't feel comfortable with, you were able to not make that a part of your experience," added former cheerleader Tedi Tzinares.

Redskins team president Bruce Allen said in a statement Thursday that the organization is immediately looking into the situation and if the investigation shows any employees acted inappropriately, "those employees will face significant repercussions."

Scrutiny over the treatment of Redskins cheerleaders comes amid larger concerns across the organization of discrimination in the cheer ranks, and about pay and work equity. All but five NFL teams — the Chicago Bears, Buffalo Bills, New York Giants, Green Bay Packers and Pittsburgh Steelers — have cheerleading squads.

The Times report said the 36 Redskins cheerleaders were going to Costa Rica for a calendar photo shoot at the Occidental Grand Papagayo, an "adults-only" resort on Culebra Bay.

Some of the cheerleaders who spoke with the newspaper said they were told they had to be photographed topless, although no nude photos actually appeared in the actual calendar. Some of the women also wore nothing but body paint. While some cheerleaders weren't upset about being undressed, they said they didn't know that organizers also gave all-male FedEx Field suite holders up-close access to the shoots.

That night, about nine of the women were also asked to go out to a nightclub and be personal escorts for some of the male sponsors, the Times reported. Cheerleaders who spoke with The Times said they felt uncomfortable with the Costa Rica trip. Some didn't come back to the squad the following season.

Stephanie Jojokian, the longtime director and choreographer for the Redskins' cheerleader, disputed many of the women's accounts to the newspaper, and said it was not mandatory for any members to go out with men to a nightclub. "I was not forcing anyone to go at all," she added. "I'm the mama bear, and I really look out for everybody, not just the cheerleaders."

Rachel Gill and Charo Bishop, former team captains for the Redskins cheerleaders, echoed that sentiment and said Friday on "Today" that no one was being "pimped out" or had to work as escorts.

"We were always with someone we knew, we were always together," Bishop said of partying after the photo shoot.

Gill said the cheerleaders have a "sisterhood," and disputed that leadership didn't have their backs.

"I hate that this negative light has been portrayed on our organization for something I was so passionate about and so many women felt that this was the best years of their lives," Gill added.

But a former New Orleans Saints cheerleader who has spoken out about her experiences said not every woman feels protected by their team.

Bailey Davis, 22, was fired in January after violating the team's code of conduct by appearing in lingerie on social media. The photo, she said, was on her private Instagram account.

She called her ouster a double-standard after enduring situations where she felt pressured in other ways.

"We had to go to a yacht party with a fan and we had to sit around and mingle with his friends and they were hugging on us, it was very uncomfortable," she told the "Today" show. "I was 19 years old. There were two 18-year-olds on the team. They were serving alcohol, we were pressured to drink."

The Saints were reportedly looking into whether Davis also attended a party with team members, which is prohibited by team rules.

Davis filed a complaint with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. Outside legal counsel for the Saints have denied her claims of discrimination and said the team is "confident that its policies and workplace rules will withstand legal scrutiny."

Davis' attorney has asked NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell for a meeting about changing rules that are unfair toward women.

In another case, former Miami Dolphins cheerleader Kristan Ann Ware, 27, filed a complaint last month with the Florida Commission on Human Relations, saying she was discriminated against by the team and the NFL for talking about her Christian faith, and mocked for her virginity.

The NFL said in a statement that all employees, including cheerleaders, have "the right to work in a positive and respectful environment that is free from any and all forms of harassment and discrimination and fully complies with state and federal laws."

 

[LesBaker]

Her comments on that whole situation start at 2:15. Sounds to me like she didn't care. The audience reaction was priceless towards her comments.

This is the clip I was talking about. It's actually longer that the original I saw.

Somewhere in between is probably the truth. Point is this was a long time before the scandal with Lauer broke. Nobody did any follow up work and investigated. It took a hashtag movement to bring up the level of courage in the women he treated like meat.

 

[LesBaker]

One former cheerleader said, "If it was something you didn't feel comfortable with, you were able to not make that a part of your experience."

Well here is evidence that they asked..........the team and Snyder should get thrashed for this provided it's true.

Some didn't come back to the squad the following season.

Hard to blame them.

Rachel Gill and Charo Bishop, former team captains for the Redskins cheerleaders, echoed that sentiment and said Friday on "Today" that no one was being "pimped out" or had to work as escorts.

They are misunderstanding the intent and use of the language and this should be corrected by the paper right away. It's far to easy to make the jump to the wrong conclusion.

 

[LesBaker]

As demonstrated by the "FHRITP" crowd. I mean seriously, what exactly are you trying to accomplish by coming up behind a female reporter, sometimes live, and screaming that? Clearly she's not going to bang you, clearly it's meant to disrupt her job, and clearly it only happens to women. It's meant to be rude, and these guys think its "funny". They're also not all that concerned about getting punched in the face, now are they? What happens to male reporters? You'll get the usual clowns mugging for the camera during a live broadcast, making stupid faces and such, but have you ever seen some guy run up to a male reporter and scream "bleep him right in the a**??"

Good point.

One other angle.

How many guys got raped and molested and didn't report it?

Lots and lots and lots.

And why didn't they until years later?

Shame and embarrassment about being forced to have sex with a grown man, yet almost to a "t" we believe them. Women on the other hand not so much.

I dated a Redskin Cheerleader for a couple of years.

Go scrub your dick with bleach.

I'm not trying to discourage the reporting of said crime

Yet, reflexively and subconsciously that's kinda sorta what you're doing.

 

[Farr Be It]

It wasn't some "perv peep show" or anything like that. It was a very exclusive show where people had to be invited and put on a list by the artists performing. Guests were checked in down stairs, escorted to the private rooftop bar and pool, reverified by another guard before they could come to the pool area where only myself and the head of security were there in terms of people not on the guest list, where they did their show.

While it was strange and I won't even pretend to understand it, it wasn't sexual. The "fashion" was the crap they put on their heads, that was the focus point to look at, which is what most of the guests were looking at anyway. I don't know why they were naked from the neck down, but artists are a different breed. To them it's not sexual, it's just the human body.

So HUGE difference between the oglers on the adult resort in Costa Rica and the “exclusive nude art show” in the hotel. Gotcha. They were both boner shows. Please. The naked human body IS sexual. That is why we wear clothes.

Not attacking you Blue. But I don’t see a dimes bit of difference. Each of these girls signs up to be ogled. Period. And in the Redskin case, the second shoe is dropping. Some girls are reporting the team did not, in fact threaten or force girls to do anything wrong here.

I don’t know all the facts. Neither does anyone on this board. But we should probably pump the breaks on the moralizing until we know. Let justice do it’s thing.