Redskins Cheerleader-Gate

[Soul Surfer]

I downloaded the picture of the cheerleaders and cropped it down so it can be used as my phone saver.

Is that wrong?

 

[jrry32]

I believe MY women, when they tell me something. Who is this chick??? Anybody know, Jerry? I appreciate your sensitivity. But here's the point: There are scumbags with both sets of plumbing. Why do we believe an accuser, just because she is a woman? This is where the PC police thing comes into play. Not talking about THIS case.

And I know it is difficult to come forward. I know women are reluctant. They need to feel safe to come forward if something bad happens.

But if some woman accused my friend @jrry32 of touching her inappropriately, should "I believe women"?

I would assume my friend's innocence, until proven guilty. As a matter of fact, getting to know your character a little bit, I would have confidence that you didn't do it.

If my buddy @bluecoconuts was accused of inappropriate relations with a student, (a bad grade can sometime cause vengeful actions?) should "I believe women"? Or maybe, consider the character of Blue, and that he is professional, and would not do such a thing? (I just use that example because he teaches, and is in this conversation.)

Dude, women DO NOT have the market on truth or integrity. Having said that, I want the maximum protection of women in our society. I want women to be held up on a pedestal of respect.

But each case is different, Jerry. Denigrating an innocent man is not more virtuous than defending a devious woman. And waiting on the facts does not make me a misogynist.

Farr Be It, come on, dude. Don't try to pull a hatchet job here. Respond to the sentence in full:
"I believe women when they tell me what they felt internally."

 

[Farr Be It]

Farr Be It, come on, dude. Don't try to pull a hatchet job here. Respond to the sentence in full:
"I believe women when they tell me what they felt internally."

"I believe women when they tell me what they felt internally."
:neener: love ya Jerry!

 

[Mackeyser]

Look keyboard warrior. I don't know WTF you read that sent you into a tizzy, but you better not get personal with me, boy. My mind is awesome. and my views are sound.

Take you're @bluecoconuts man-crush, and move on. He and I can work out our converstion without you getting personal with me. That is not what this board is about. That is twice now. STFU

What are the odds Les’ response gets this thread closed? I’d say it’s even up, but I’ve known Les for 18 years. I think it’s closer to 6/5.

Also, I genuinely laughed out loud at the “my mind is awesome” line.

I’m nearly 50 and I been thru some sheeit. NOTHING on me is awesome. I’m just pissed not a dang thing is under warranty!

So God Bless if anyone has anything that’s awesome...hahaha.

 

[ReekofRams]

I downloaded the picture of the cheerleaders and cropped it down so it can be used as my phone saver.

Is that wrong?

Can you post the picture? Asking for a friend.

 

[Dieter the Brock]

@jrry32 you are touching on the themes here in this book i am reading for work
Suggested reading for many on this thread:

 

[LesBaker]

And when you say things like they knew what they were getting into, thats excusing the behavior.

This is the biggest problem..........and it's the main driver that keeps women from speaking up, and has for as long as there have been men and women.

I find it sad, very sad, that people in this thread that have that attitude will deride (rightfully) cultures that treat women like cattle, Yet can't see that they are treating them poorly in this regard.

It's a fubar standard. Trust the man all the time, but not the woman.

I'm not saying we should live our daily lives in Speedos. Oh, God no.

HAHAHA..........I live near a beach and you can always tell who the vacationing Europeans are. Red speedos.

Problem is my friend, you don’t know they were pressured.

Yes we do know, they said they felt pressured. Why do you assume anything when they have SAID that.

Why do we believe an accuser, just because she is a woman? This is where the PC police thing comes into play.

That is misogynistic, but I'm not surprised. And people don't automaticall believe a woman, that's a complete fabrication on your part. This has nothing to do with the "PC police" that those of you on the "Farr right" (seewhatIdidtherehaha) like to toss out to muddy the waters in a difficult social topic. You can't hide behind that in this discussion and willfully ignore that a few women felt scared/intimidated and pressured by their employer and a group of very wealthy men who are used to getting away with shitty behavior.

We KNOW that the Redskins asked these women to take off their tops (and I hope they get crushed for it) and in NO WAY is that acceptable, not in ANY environment that is work related. Yet you defend it. If your wife's boss asked her and the women where she works to do that what would you think?

In a situation like that part of their fear is people like you doubting and calling them out as "you got what you signed up for". Yes, people like you. That's a big part of the problem. People like you enable this type of behavior. You'll believe the women in YOUR circle, but everyone outside of that is lying and your reflexive response is to cast shadows of doubt. You would unconditionally accept this accusation from someone you know, but not from cheerleaders who you have debased multiple times in this thread while their is clear evidence that team management was acting so inappropriately that it looks like laws were broken. Maybe that's why they went out of the USA now that I think about it.

You are reacting exactly and precisely how these types of turds hope you will. This is what these types have come to expect, people defending their actions. Until you can get yourself to see that it will be impossible to further the conversation in this thread.

 

[LACHAMP46]

It's very unfair to expect that everyone that's abused should have no feelings and immediately alert the press. What if a teenager is being molested by a parent? Who's that kid supposed to go tell?

Someone in authority....a teacher....a minister...a doctor ....a nurse....

Remaining silent...for any length of time...is not the answer...It doesn't take a physically strong person to tell...or even defend themselves...

 

[dieterbrock]

Someone in authority....a teacher....a minister...a doctor ....a nurse....

Remaining silent...for any length of time...is not the answer...It doesn't take a physically strong person to tell...or even defend themselves...

Just so I understand then, if a victim doesn't speak up immediately, they should never speak up?

 

[dieterbrock]

I downloaded the picture of the cheerleaders and cropped it down so it can be used as my phone saver.

Is that wrong?

I have another idea, take a picture of the Redskins cheerleaders while they are getting changed, then use that as your phone saver, and let me know how it goes...

 

[Akrasian]

No I'm not....I advising anyone that has been subjected to ANY criminal misconduct to immediately report it....who wouldn't? If you were in a hit and run accident....and before the perp left he threatened you and said you better not tell, you wouldn't???

There's a long and sordid history of the victim being blamed, and being humiliated by others even if it never comes to trial. If harassment or worse comes to trial, the amount of victim blaming is historically worse - "well, what were you wearing? Did you smile at him? Did you somehow ASK him to do it?". Of course, much of the time unless it's a slam dunk conviction it is never brought to trial. Even if it's a likely conviction, the woman historically has been pressured "You know you will wreck the man's career/marriage with this. Are you sure you want to proceed? He did something wrong, but wouldn't it be better if we handle it for you?" with nothing ever happening, and it continuing.

They ASKED them....and they had a right...according to some...to accept or refuse.

Well, they "asked" them. The employer asked them, after getting them thousands of miles from home, and taking their passports, so they felt constrained. As others have pointed out, getting fired from the job - even if it's low paying - does have serious ramifications for some of them who want to be dancers elsewhere. And taking the passports, and having the employers "ask" can certainly be viewed as pressure.

The cheerleaders were asked to do a photoshoot in bikinis for charity, and their reward was supposed to be a trip to a Costa Rican resort. Instead it turned out that the Redskins had additional ideas of their role there - to show off their nudity and accompany some high paying corporate sponsors. All while having their passports taken "for safe keeping" and their bosses asking them for this escalation of duties that most would never have accepted if asked before the trip. I'm not sure how anybody could not find this inappropriate at best.

 

[LACHAMP46]

Just so I understand then, if a victim doesn't speak up immediately, they should never speak up?

No....whenever you get the courage, do speak up. but don't be surprised if your story is questioned.

There's a long and sordid history of the victim being blamed, and being humiliated by others even if it never comes to trial.

I get it....they're "embarrassed".....
So rather that seek some sort of remedy....they just stay quiet...

The cheerleaders were asked to do a photoshoot in bikinis for charity, and their reward was supposed to be a trip to a Costa Rican resort. Instead it turned out that the Redskins had additional ideas of their role there - to show off their nudity and accompany some high paying corporate sponsors. All while having their passports taken "for safe keeping" and their bosses asking them for this escalation of duties that most would never have accepted if asked before the trip. I'm not sure how anybody could not find this inappropriate at best.

Obviously inappropriate....but if that's all that was done, not sure why it took 5 years or so to come forward.

 

[Dieter the Brock]

ROD BOOK CLUB

Another topical book that I am working through for this film project that hits on all the subjects we are talking about here. Good reading @jrry32

A tasty quote:
"to have great pain is to have certainty; to hear that another person has pain is to have doubt."

Sound familiar

 

[LesBaker]

Just so I understand then, if a victim doesn't speak up immediately, they should never speak up?

And if they are female, they shouldn't be believed anyway.

And taking the passports, and having the employers "ask" can certainly be viewed as pressure.

Your entire post was top flight @Akrasian and too many men don't thinking clearly about this type of thing.

"They could have said no" is true, and several did and several didn't..........and among those who did and didn't some say they felt pressured. Yet people are calling THEM out for the shitty behavior of others, including their employer.

Why in the world would the Redskins do this? You went easy when you said "inappropriate at best". It's criminal behavior, and I'm hoping it gets treated as such but since it didn't happen in the US then probably nothing will come of it. Imagine this happening at any workplace......the lawsuits would be flying around like mad. Yet because they are cheerleaders in small outfits it's acceptable to treat them like shit. That seems to be the attitude of too many men.

The "that's what they signed up for" thing is bothersome because we already know that ISN'T what they signed up for. That's an excuse for the guys who bought the high end suites at the stadium from other guys who think it's fine to ask them to do those things when they are in a partially defenseless position.

Goodell better get in front of this before an attorney beats him to it because if he doesn't respond until AFTER a lawyer is in the picture this is going to be worse than the Ray Rice scandal.

I think, like most people, that Snyder is a turd of a human, and I hope this damages him considerably. This is karma coming around with interest for all the awful things he has done.

 

[LesBaker]

"to have great pain is to have certainty; to hear that another person has pain is to have doubt."

Which makes the pain worse.

 

[Selassie I]

All right... this thread is becoming like work. So fuck that.

Maybe we'll update any new info that comes out of this story, but I'm done with the tone... it's too much like politics.

For those of you who haven't had enough already... take it to PMs. I'll thank all of you in advance for not bleeding this over into anything else on the board.