Redskins Cheerleader-Gate

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Farr Be It

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They aren't models posing for Maxim etc they are cheerleaders, but regardless, if what was expected of these women to do wasn't explicitly explained to them, where they had the choice to participate or not, it doesn't matter, its just not right IMO

So Dieter, posing for Maxim is higher brow exploitation of women's bodies, or lower brow? I'm not sure it is clear what was explained to them yet, either.

As I said before, I am not taking some hard stance on this, but it doesn't appear as yet there is enough for others to take such a hard stance either.

This whole situation reminds me of the joke:

Lady of the evening: "Would you like some company?"
Man to lady of the evening: "How about five bucks, you and me? Let's go."
Lady: "What kind of girl do you think I am?"
Man: "We've already established that. I was just negotiating the cost."


These girls are not prostitutes, but as someone said earlier, if you agree to mutually negotiated behavior one minute, you cannot come back later and pretend to have moral grounds for action the next. That is double-mindedness. I don't accept that "they felt pressured to paint their boobs."

I am teaching my daughter to respect herself. She is in control of her body. She owns her decisions, and the consequences to them. Too many girls give their dignity away so easily today. Again, I am not making judgment on those that choose to cheerlead, or pose for Maxim. Just own your decisions, and the implications behind them.

Society might accept the premise of this action against the Redskins. The law may ultimately accept it. The plaintiffs I am sure will walk away with cash. (and really, that may be all they were seeking. Not their dignity back.) But it doesn't mean it is just. Or right.
 

Karate61

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This issue gave me flashbacks to the 1978 Rams cheerleaders. Anyone remember these cheerleader uniforms?

2016-07-25_2-38-16.jpg


2016-07-25_2-41-25.jpg
 

Mackeyser

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As usual Mike Foolio :poop: refuses to call the Redskins by their team name lest it offend anyone. :mrburns:

His article is first, followed by excerpts from the NY Times article which you can access by clicking the link above the article.
*****************************************************************************************
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...heerleaders-story-gets-coverage-on-today-gma/

Washington cheerleaders story gets coverage on Today, GMA
Posted by Mike Foolio on May 3, 2018

The NFL has kept a low profile in the aftermath of Wednesday’s report from the New York Timesregarding a Costa Rican excursion gone extremely bizarre for Washington’s cheerleaders in 2013. The NFL may not be able to keep a low profile much longer.

The story is getting noticed. Via SportsBusiness Daily, both NBC’s Today and ABC’s Good Morning America covered it on Thursday. ABC’s George Stephanopoulos called the allegations “blockbusters.”

Mainstream, early-morning news coverage has become the unofficial litmus test for whether an NFL controversy will go away quickly and quietly or whether it will have staying power. This one isn’t going to be regarded as an aberration or a blip on the radar screen. And as it gets more attention, more cheerleaders who have experienced inappropriate behavior with NFL teams or elsewhere will feel empowered to speak out.

Of course, certain inauthentic charlatans hoping to cater to a certain mindset will argue loudly that the Times and/or others in the media hope to eventually end cheerleading. This predictable effort to preach to a very specific choir overlooks the basic reality that, if misconduct or abuse is happening, it needs to be identified and rectified.

The NFL has not yet responded to an email sent Wednesday by PFT regarding whether the Personal Conduct Policy applies to any of the allegations contained in the story published by the Times. That’s not surprising; one way to keep a story from becoming a story is to not acknowledge the story.

Now that it’s a story, however, the NFL can’t afford to sit back and let others control the narrative. The NFL also can’t afford to create a perception that players who potentially engage in improper behavior are treated one way, and that teams/owners who engage in improper behavior are treated another way.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/05/02/sports/redskins-cheerleaders-nfl.html

Redskins Cheerleaders Describe Topless Photo Shoots and an Uneasy Night Out
By Juliet Macur

When the Washington Redskins took their cheerleading squad to Costa Rica in 2013 for a calendar photo shoot, the first cause for concern among the cheerleaders came when Redskins officials collected their passports upon arrival at the resort, depriving them of their official identification.

For the photo shoot, at the adults-only Occidental Grand Papagayo resort on Culebra Bay, some of the cheerleaders said they were required to be topless, though the photographs used for the calendar would not show nudity. Others wore nothing but body paint. Given the resort’s secluded setting, such revealing poses would not have been a concern for the women — except that the Redskins had invited spectators.

merlin_137533410_b751707b-35f6-4ed8-b8f0-45779ffb11ba-jumbo.jpg

A screen grab from the Redskins’ website, which had some images from the cheerleaders’ calendar photo shoot in 2013. Credit Redskins.com

A contingent of sponsors and FedExField suite holders — all men — were granted up-close access to the photo shoots.

One evening, at the end of a 14-hour day that included posing and dance practices, the squad’s director told nine of the 36 cheerleaders that their work was not done. They had a special assignment for the night. Some of the male sponsors had picked them to be personal escorts at a nightclub.

Their participation did not involve sex, the cheerleaders said, but they felt as if the arrangement amounted to “pimping us out.” What bothered them was their team director’s demand that they go as sex symbols to please male sponsors, which they did not believe should be a part of their job.

merlin_137539125_a0e3011e-daed-4ed3-b8e1-6f83a4343094-superJumbo.jpg

The cheerleaders were not paid for the time they spent posing for the 2013 calendar.
Credit Daniel Swartz/Revamp.com


A spokesman for the N.F.L. said the league office “has no role in how the clubs which have cheerleaders utilize them.” He reiterated a statement the league has issued in response to previous news reports regarding the treatment of cheerleaders: “Our office will work with our clubs in sharing best practices and employment-related processes that will support club cheerleading squads within an appropriate and supportive workplace.”

Many Redskins cheerleaders understand the team’s approach — sex sells — and remain enthusiastic supporters of the team. They said they were troubled, however, when their safety was not taken seriously. There is no league-wide policy for security, or a union to protect them.

A recent contract for Redskins cheerleaders said off-the-field work would include “community and charitable events, youth camps, etc.” There was no mention of having to entertain men who financially support the team, and these appearances raised flags for some cheerleaders.

I’m part Lenape, have been to pow wows, my dad has worked pow wows and volunteered at several Native American museums. He as extensive contacts within many Nations.

I, personally, don’t use the slur. It feels like a slur to me.

I’ve talked about this with others, specifically at a pow wow and while no one was happy about it, the range was “we have bigger issues to deal with...like getting our land back” to “it’s just another slur.” No one got excited about it, but I didn’t see anyone like it, either. This is anecdotal, so take that for what it’s worth.

I don’t crusade about it, but I also don’t use it. It should be okay to make the choice to not use the slur if one sees it as such.

As for the photo shoot...it’s not just disgusting, but it’s disgusting on a super creepy level.

Someone asked about Maxim or SI photo shoots. Those are done in PRIVATE settings where the comfort and safety of the women are paramount. The reason the women really enjoy them, even the one in the snow, is based on HOW it’s done. At no point are spectators allowed.

This isn’t the forum to discuss how a woman’s sexuality isn’t the property or purview of a man just because he can see it, but it’s something to consider. It’s pretty important and anyone can dm me to have that convo if they so choose.

So yeah. TL;dr, photo shoot was awful and illustrates what pervs the Washington FO are.
 

Memento

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Snyder is an easy target. I don't pretend he is a victim in this. But I will reserve further judgment until I hear more. These girls go in as sex objects. Willingly. The moral preening with some people is a bit much. I'm not sure anyone is a victim here.

I love the female form as much as the next guy, but the cheerleaders sometimes seems to be a distraction. They often make female fans uncomfortable. Is their guy there to watch a game, or lust after gyrating girls? I know it is part of the NFL culture, and I am not crusading against it, but this "outrage" over being exploited rings a bit hollow for me.

Sorry, Farr. I respect the hell out of you, but I have to disagree. Out of all of the shitty things that Snyder has done and continues to do (there's literally an entire article on the Washington Post about Snyder's wrongdoings), this might actually be the worst.

Cheerleaders have a limit on what they can do. Choreographed performances in a game? Definitely. Charity events off the field? Of course. Being pimped out like glorified courtesans after a fourteen-hour topless shoot that was in plain sight of a bunch of men? That's not even close to being okay. The fact that they had been lured into the situation under false pretenses and had their passports taken away makes it even more fucked up.

Snyder has got to go, and - in my honest opinion, of course - should be charged with extortion.
 

dolphinlover123

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These cheerleaders make about $100 a game. Sorry, but if they were afraid to lose a job that pays that crappy, they are idiots. I dont think it has anything to do with being fired, they are calling the ownership out on being pigs. Nothing more nothing less.
A lot of these women have multiple jobs. If youre not in their shoes, why judge?
 

dieterbrock

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So Dieter, posing for Maxim is higher brow exploitation of women's bodies, or lower brow? I'm not sure it is clear what was explained to them yet, either.

As I said before, I am not taking some hard stance on this, but it doesn't appear as yet there is enough for others to take such a hard stance either.

This whole situation reminds me of the joke:

Lady of the evening: "Would you like some company?"
Man to lady of the evening: "How about five bucks, you and me? Let's go."
Lady: "What kind of girl do you think I am?"
Man: "We've already established that. I was just negotiating the cost."


These girls are not prostitutes, but as someone said earlier, if you agree to mutually negotiated behavior one minute, you cannot come back later and pretend to have moral grounds for action the next. That is double-mindedness. I don't accept that "they felt pressured to paint their boobs."

I am teaching my daughter to respect herself. She is in control of her body. She owns her decisions, and the consequences to them. Too many girls give their dignity away so easily today. Again, I am not making judgment on those that choose to cheerlead, or pose for Maxim. Just own your decisions, and the implications behind them.

Society might accept the premise of this action against the Redskins. The law may ultimately accept it. The plaintiffs I am sure will walk away with cash. (and really, that may be all they were seeking. Not their dignity back.) But it doesn't mean it is just. Or right.
I make no opinion, expressed or otherwise that there is a shoot which is an acceptable exploitation.
That's the whole "When exactly did you stop beating your wife" scenario....
And your joke is in poor taste imo.
These women are professional cheerleaders, not models. And I don't see where agreeing to be in a photo shoot is somehow agreeing to forced to be in uncompromising situations. That's not mutually negotiated.
I think you are missing the forest thru the trees here. The issue isn't the photo's being taken, the body paint photos for instance. I don't see where anyone is saying they didn't want that. No what was unwelcome, by the Redskins decision, to invite guests to watch the shoot while taking place, and witnessing these women actually being painted, dressed etc.
So the dignity lost here wasn't from the photos taken, it was how they were treated during.
Not sure how you cant see the difference
 

Mackeyser

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So Dieter, posing for Maxim is higher brow exploitation of women's bodies, or lower brow? I'm not sure it is clear what was explained to them yet, either.

As I said before, I am not taking some hard stance on this, but it doesn't appear as yet there is enough for others to take such a hard stance either.

This whole situation reminds me of the joke:

Lady of the evening: "Would you like some company?"
Man to lady of the evening: "How about five bucks, you and me? Let's go."
Lady: "What kind of girl do you think I am?"
Man: "We've already established that. I was just negotiating the cost."


These girls are not prostitutes, but as someone said earlier, if you agree to mutually negotiated behavior one minute, you cannot come back later and pretend to have moral grounds for action the next. That is double-mindedness. I don't accept that "they felt pressured to paint their boobs."

I am teaching my daughter to respect herself. She is in control of her body. She owns her decisions, and the consequences to them. Too many girls give their dignity away so easily today. Again, I am not making judgment on those that choose to cheerlead, or pose for Maxim. Just own your decisions, and the implications behind them.

Society might accept the premise of this action against the Redskins. The law may ultimately accept it. The plaintiffs I am sure will walk away with cash. (and really, that may be all they were seeking. Not their dignity back.) But it doesn't mean it is just. Or right.

That’s akin to saying a woman can’t be raped after saying yes initially or that a prostitute can’t ever be raped. That’s nonsense. Cheerleaders agreed to a photo shoot, not a peep show or to as part of their job have to be an escort. Most enjoy the game atmosphere and the charity work.

If you truly have this attitude, then how is every girl cheerleader any different on a moral level?

As for the “contract”, A woman can say NO at any time for ANY reason or no reason at all.

If I get a vacation for saying this, I’ll take it because I feel it has to be said as a matter of principle.

I can’t stongly enough disagree and I’ll just try and lurk and stay away from posting on this from here on out.

Damn I can’t wait for OTAs to start...
 

Farr Be It

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Wow. I can't imagine having this cynical of a view. The Redskins didn't eveny deny it.

Did the team collect the passports to protect them?
1474.gif
Cynical? How Jerry? I still need to read more about this to know what happened. But what did I write that is cynical?

Costa Rica isn't frakin' Beruit
What are they protecting the cheeleaders from that they would need to confiscate passports? The zip line experience, holler monkeys? A day trip to Panama coffee plantation? Plankton?
:LOL: Certainly the Holler Monkeys. Boom, they snatch that passport, and before you know it they are swinging on a vine and there is no telling if you will ever get it back.

Can you imagine the logistics of coordinating this trip, and the obligation to keep these girls safe? Costa Rica may not be Beiruit, but it is closer to Beirut than Northern Virginia.

Costa Rica has a huge prostitution ring. Worst in the world if I'm not mistaken.
hmmm. Better take provisions to protect these girls.

Yeah the passport part just really confuses me. There is zero reason to take them except to limit their ability to move freely or leave. Unless they were afraid some of them would lose them and they didn't want to deal with that? Like, did they say "We're going to collect your passports to keep them secure." it sort of makes sense but it shouldn't have been a forced thing. And if I was there no way I'd ever give up ID on foreign soil... hell I wouldn't do it in America. That's just weird. The escort and topless stuff doesn't surprise me unfortunately.
Do you see, even in the course of your own reasoning, how you went from ZERO reason to a couple good reasons.

My only point with this is: the second shoe hasn't dropped.
 

Corbin

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Not getting into this debate but CAN WE STOP CALLING SHIT WHATEVER-GATE? fucks sake man...
 

LesBaker

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They felt wronged and brought it to the media. They don't want to get fired. They were certainly made to do it. What you're claiming is akin to claiming that the woman who had a sexual relationship with her boss because she was afraid he'd fire her if she didn't wasn't made to do anything.

Hell, you even admit that here:


They were asked to do inappropriate things and complied because they felt that was what they had to do if they wanted to keep their jobs. Yea, nobody used physical force, but they still coerced them to do it.

No sale.
 

bluecoconuts

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Sounds like Washington should, and probably will, get slammed for this.

Spectators at a photo shoot and having the girls be 'dates' is completely unprofessional. People, high ranking people, should be fired for this.
 

1maGoh

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It's the preemptive locking of a thread a thing? This isn't going anywhere good for the board.
 

Angry Ram

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Meh, media spin is making it out worse than it seems to be, by using words like "escort" and "pimped out". Read the story at face value and it make seems like this was a 1950s style shin-dig with cigars and fedoras, and the cheerleaders sitting on the corporate guys' laps.

Seems to me since this was Redskins event, the cheerleaders are apart of the Redskins, therefore they are involved. The girls themselves say there was no sex or touchy feely.

Also why 4 years later? Seems like if it was that much of an issue at least one girl out of 36 would have said something by now. Especially that new girls are added every year, and vets only last 2 or 3 years.

I'm with @Psycho_X that the passport thing should be investigated and should be the focus.

Also does anyone talk with corporate men? They are the most boring, uninteresting, robotic people you'll ever meet. The cheerleaders were probably looking at their phones to see when they could leave the whole time.
 

jrry32

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Sorry, Farr. I respect the hell out of you, but I have to disagree. Out of all of the crappy things that Snyder has done and continues to do (there's literally an entire article on the Washington Post about Snyder's wrongdoings), this might actually be the worst.

Cheerleaders have a limit on what they can do. Choreographed performances in a game? Definitely. Charity events off the field? Of course. Being pimped out like glorified courtesans after a fourteen-hour topless shoot that was in plain sight of a bunch of men? That's not even close to being okay. The fact that they had been lured into the situation under false pretenses and had their passports taken away makes it even more freaked up.

Snyder has got to go, and - in my honest opinion, of course - should be charged with extortion.

Well stated, Memento.
 

jrry32

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Cynical? How Jerry? I still need to read more about this to know what happened. But what did I write that is cynical?

Yes, your views towards the women here are cynical. They expose some disgusting things the Redskins forced upon them (beyond having to watch the team play ;)), and you immediately assumed they are in it for money and can't be trusted despite the Redskins' failure to deny the allegations.
 
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Farr Be It

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As for the photo shoot...it’s not just disgusting, but it’s disgusting on a super creepy level.
Someone asked about Maxim or SI photo shoots. Those are done in PRIVATE settings where the comfort and safety of the women are paramount. The reason the women really enjoy them, even the one in the snow, is based on HOW it’s done. At no point are spectators allowed.

This isn’t the forum to discuss how a woman’s sexuality isn’t the property or purview of a man just because he can see it, but it’s something to consider. It’s pretty important and anyone can dm me to have that convo if they so choose.

So yeah. TL;dr, photo shoot was awful and illustrates what pervs the Washington FO are.
Right, but once the photo shoot happens and are published, the guys that look and lust aren't pervs. Just the Redskins F.O. :rolleyes: The girls enjoy the process that gets them into our Booty thread. Very tasteful. I am not judging, but there are some very thin hairs being split. Perhaps we just need to show more respect to women. Don't you think Mack?

Cheerleaders have a limit on what they can do. Choreographed performances in a game? Definitely. Charity events off the field? Of course. Being pimped out like glorified courtesans after a fourteen-hour topless shoot that was in plain sight of a bunch of men? That's not even close to being okay. The fact that they had been lured into the situation under false pretenses and had their passports taken away makes it even more freaked up.
Jemma, I am not a fan of what the Foreskins did here. I want to be clear. I agree it was sleazy. Just for the record. I am just waiting on more information. After reading the report, though, I do feel bad for the girls. They seem to have been exploited, and that says a lot, considering that their job is kind of exploitative.

And your joke is in poor taste imo
I agree. Bad context. My apologies.

These women are professional cheerleaders, not models. And I don't see where agreeing to be in a photo shoot is somehow agreeing to forced to be in uncompromising situations. That's not mutually negotiated.
Probably not. Of course I draw the line at any kind of trickery. It sounds like a lot of these girls were lured into a really COOL trip to Costa Rica, then maybe some of their "duties" were dripped to them in pieces. We will see. Either way, it looks like the Foreskins come off sleazy in this situation.

I think you are missing the forest thru the trees here. The issue isn't the photo's being taken, the body paint photos for instance. I don't see where anyone is saying they didn't want that. No what was unwelcome, by the Redskins decision, to invite guests to watch the shoot while taking place, and witnessing these women actually being painted, dressed etc.
So the dignity lost here wasn't from the photos taken, it was how they were treated during.
Not sure how you cant see the difference
I agree completely with you. I read a bit more after my initial read of the story. Letting a bunch of sleezeball high rollers gaze at the situation is pretty low.

That’s akin to saying a woman can’t be raped after saying yes initially or that a prostitute can’t ever be raped. That’s nonsense. Cheerleaders agreed to a photo shoot, not a peep show or to as part of their job have to be an escort. Most enjoy the game atmosphere and the charity work.
I apologize for using that prostitution joke as an analogy, that was bad taste. But part of my point is for these girls to not put their selves in harms way. A woman should always be able to say "no" to advances on her personhood. The 'skins may have taken advantage of them being in a compromised environment. If the facts bear out, that is awful.
 

Farr Be It

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Yes, your views towards the women here is cynical. They expose some disgusting things the Redskins forced upon them (beyond having to watch the team play ;)), and you immediately assumed they are in it for money and can't be trusted despite the Redskins' failure to deny the allegations.
Thanks Jerry. I appreciate your response. Not trying to cause a firestorm. I love and respect women. I don't want them exploited AT ALL. The Foreskins are sleazy, and exploitative in this. That much is clear.

I feel bad for the girls. As a dad of a budding young lady, I might even be more upset than some others, if the worst of the bait-and-switch allegations are true. Peace Jerry.
 

Prime Time

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It's the preemptive locking of a thread a thing? This isn't going anywhere good for the board.

Nah, I thought it through before posting it. It's not politics or religion. It's news that may affect a team in our conference. So far everyone's been good about it. As long as it stays that way there'll be no need to lock it.
 
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