Rams trying to trade Tru J.

[Riverumbbq]

I'll have to disagree with you there. If you compare an NFL team to a balance scale, I think its safe to say it's been very obvious that our offense is the reason behind our lack of post season appearances, and that if anything, our defense can be credited to carrying us to the wins we have gotten.

You don't get better overall (or balanced) by losing good, developing players and keeping those who are either stagnant or regressing.

We had a very good group of core secondary players headed into last season, and not only are we facing the probability of losing all four (down two already), but we went an entire season without solidifying the corner position opposite of Johnson, as well as free safety. So now, not only are those positions of concern, but you can add the other cornerback slot and strong safety (Alexander can maybe take over SS, still an unkown at this point) positions to that list... on top of the same old same old-- offensive line, receiver, tight end, linebacker, etc.

That's fine, we can agree to disagree. No question the defense was the far better half of our team, but there is also something to be said for balance, and we didn't have it. More CAP dollars & veteran players were invested in defense, and our offense paid for it. TruJo may be a zone player in a Wade Phillips 'man' defense, so we should expect some changes when a new coaching staff and scheme come to town. jmo.

 

[8to12]

He had no choice but to sign the contract.

My issue is that I don't want other teams doing the same thing. If every team uses its franchise tag and tries to trade its top FA, it'll ruin the system. It's not as simple as that, but I'd hate this practice to become more widespread.

Playing devils advocate here.... as opposed to you taking the perspective of the player, I'm taking that of the Club ; I am vulnerable to losing most of my players I invest in to Free agency every year. The Franchise tag is the only option for me to retain my investment in my best players, I can only do it once a year. And, the compensation aspect is flawed. It doesn't allow me to negotiate any other form of return other than (2) First round picks, by which, no other team would find fair. It forces me to have to trade in order to reach a balance of compensation. I agree it is unfair for a hand full of players, but but without it, the Clubs would have nothing to balance their losses.

I wonder how everyone else sees it.

 

[jrry32]

Playing devils advocate here.... as opposed to you taking the perspective of the player, I'm taking that of the Club ; I am vulnerable to losing most of my players I invest in to Free agency every year. The Franchise tag is the only option for me to retain my investment in my best players, I can only do it once a year. And, the compensation aspect is flawed. It doesn't allow me to negotiate any other form of return other than (2) First round picks, by which, no other team would find fair. It forces me to have to trade in order to reach a balance of compensation. I agree it is unfair for a hand full of players, but but without it, the Clubs would have nothing to balance their losses.

I wonder how everyone else sees it.

And from the perspective of the players, you got four to five years of discounts due to the rookie wage scale. It's my time to get paid and to choose where I play. If you want to use the franchise tag on me, offer me a long-term deal. If you don't want to do that, I deserve the opportunity to choose my next destination. Your compensation was the four to five years of discounts you already got.

The Club already get to "balance" their losses. They get to use the salary available to bring in other players, they get a comp pick if they don't, and they get four to five years of owning the rights of that player at a steep discount.

 

[thirteen28]

but after losing Jenkins and McLeod last year (and not adequately replacing them)

Your point is well taken on Jenkins, but McLeod? Nothing against Rodney, but Mo Alexander played well enough that we didn't miss him much if at all.

 

[8to12]

Why don't we let them show us their plan before we criticize it?

jrry32, you're right. It's not my intention to speak negatively of the new coaching staff. I'm just venting the frustration I have of possibly losing most of the better players the Rams have acquired recently without having anything to show for it. As bad as the offense has been, the Rams need to use most of their resources to improve it, but now have to divide those resources to replacing these players on defense.

I'm sure there will be a plan brought to light that most of us will like.

Frustrating to watch, that's all

 

[8to12]

And from the perspective of the players, you got four to five years of discounts due to the rookie wage scale. It's my time to get paid and to choose where I play. If you want to use the franchise tag on me, offer me a long-term deal. If you don't want to do that, I deserve the opportunity to choose my next destination. Your compensation was the four to five years of discounts you already got.

The Club already get to "balance" their losses. They get to use the salary available to bring in other players, they get a comp pick if they don't, and they get four to five years of owning the rights of that player at a steep discount.

Good points . ... Are sure you're not an Agent? wink, wink

 

[LACHAMP46]

Actually...I'm relieved to hear this...That contract is....handcuffing to say the least.

.....
What is going on?

Snead and Kevin D. going through ROD and answering my prayers!

Go Snead/McVay!!:yess:

I was thinking either
McSnead or SncVay.....stole that from 3K

CB:
- EJ Gaines
- Troy Hill
- Blake Countess
- Lamarcus Joyner
- Mike Jordan

Safeties:
- Christian Marqui
- Isaiah Johnson
- Cody Davis
- Brian Randolph
- Maurice Alexander

Great.

Not good....I feel ya...but I'm good with those safeties...Esp. if you add Barron. Add some nice rookies in there...it'll look better.

The Gilmore and Bouye price line potentially being driven up doesn't help this situation. I guess I can see a side where it may. But it sounds like Bears are ready to throw money at Gilmore and Reports of Bouye getting lots of interest too.

I don't know either of those players real well. But I can't imagine that either of them are in a place to say they are way better than Tru.

I'm hearing Bouye excelled last year in a Wade Phillips-type defense in Houston....Came outta nowhere...UDFA...

Still, if you let McDonald walk (after letting McLeod and Jenkins do the same) and trade Tru, you basically have to replace your entire secondary over the course of one season. That's not good, especially when key positions along your offense went neglected and need to be addressed................Basically, by losing four starters on defense, one of our strengths has become a weakness, without other areas of weakness along the roster being properly addressed. Instead, we're letting players we've developed leave, while holding onto players who've regressed.

Agreed to some extent. If we can adequately replace these players...esp. if they didn't fit the new system anyway, it should be addition by subtraction.

This is true..... deep in CB's and TE's and others. But, at some point, don't you have to say enough is enough of being the youngest team in the league? Since Fisher took over and the Rams acquired McCleod, Jenkins, TJ Mac, and Trumaine, we're one step away from having NONE of them. You can't become a consistent playoff contender by losing all of the players you draft and develop after their 1st contract.

This is a new NFL....more ability to move...teams turn over rather regularly now.

I can't believe some of you guys are upset? I'm only pissed cause Cleveland isn't all over this deal...LOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

[Riverumbbq]

Playing devils advocate here.... as opposed to you taking the perspective of the player, I'm taking that of the Club ; I am vulnerable to losing most of my players I invest in to Free agency every year. The Franchise tag is the only option for me to retain my investment in my best players, I can only do it once a year. And, the compensation aspect is flawed. It doesn't allow me to negotiate any other form of return other than (2) First round picks, by which, no other team would find fair. It forces me to have to trade in order to reach a balance of compensation. I agree it is unfair for a hand full of players, but but without it, the Clubs would have nothing to balance their losses.

I wonder how everyone else sees it.

They can chuck the whole system as far as i'm concerned. It's not a 'team' game when one guy gets $20.mil and the guy next to him is getting $500,000., especially if the high CAP guy is injured or not playing well. The CAP is fine, but it would be a per game CAP, not per season. Playing into the playoffs would be much more profitable for the players than the small bonuses they receive now. There would still be a player minimum to start off with, QB's would have a higher minimum than a long snapper for instance, but i'd divide the remainder of the money based on minutes played plus a voted upon per game merit system where bonuses are determined by the players and coaching staff. If you are beaten 50 - 0, then no bonus and all the money rolls into the player minimum salary. If you win 50 - 0, then give bonuses out accordingly, including a 'team' win bonus where applicable. Too radical for prime time, but i'd favor it as a fan. jmo.

 

[Merlin]

FWIW, Browns fans say that Mary Kay isn't very reliable when it comes to breaking news.

She must have JT level insider credentials... :rolllaugh:

 

[Florida_Ram]

Some very obvious perceptions on Tru and the reality of what it what it would likely take for a trade to realistically happen.

When I put myself in another GM's shoes and try to put a value on him these are some things that come to the surface...........

1.) Tru had a down year in 2016 compared to 2015 but his body of work and the value of his position makes him a very valuable corner to a few teams that desire a taller, veteran proven 27 year old corner vs drafting an unproven rookie in the upcoming but very but strong CB class of 2017..

2.) As already mentioned by many of you, Tru will never agree to a trade unless the team wanting his services is going to do sign and trade deal paying him just a hair under or even maybe a hair more than the contract terms Janoris Jenkins received in 2016.

Janoris Jenkins signed a 5 year, $62,500,000 contract with the New York Giants, including a $10,000,000 signing bonus, $28,800,000 guaranteed.

(INFLATION logically says Tru would get something close to these figures though the numbers might be tweaked in how much and or how many years the signing bonus would be spread out etc... This could be debated for hours.)

The Rams are not going to just let Tru part ways for a measly middle to late 3rd round pick. He's a proven veteran solid corner over 6' feet tall and only 27 year old. Tru doesn't even turn 28 until 01/01/2018. A sensible GM interested in him would look at his 2014, 2015 and 2016 seasons as a whole when evaluating his worth.

I don't see it as an easy deal but maybe the Rams might compromise and in the worst case scenario, might accept an early top five 3rd round draft pick with a another middle round pick this year or next year added to pot?

Anyway this isn't an easy trade for the Rams to pull off because the GM's they will be dancing with know the the Rams are forced with renting Tru for another year at a ridiculous cost and they also know the Rams are backed into a corner with this being a franchise tag trade which is a rare type of trade to be made in the NFL

As most of you already know, a lot of things will have to fall perfectly in place for a trade to work out. A team really okay with giving the Rams enough compensation to pull the trigger will also have to be willing to pay Tru a Janoris Jenkins similar type of 5 year contract. I would like to see it get done if there is real dance partner willing to make a fair trade.

I believe that this trade ever happening is less than a coin flip but with Trader Les Snead involved, there just might be a 50% of it happening assuming the rumors are true and more than one team has expressed real interest.

 

[jrry32]

Good points . ... Are sure you're not an Agent? wink, wink

Nope. Just a bleeding heart who feels more for the guys who will be bankrupt five years after retirement than the billionaires.

 

[jrry32]

jrry32, you're right. It's not my intention to speak negatively of the new coaching staff. I'm just venting the frustration I have of possibly losing most of the better players the Rams have acquired recently without having anything to show for it. As bad as the offense has been, the Rams need to use most of their resources to improve it, but now have to divide those resources to replacing these players on defense.

I'm sure there will be a plan brought to light that most of us will like.

Frustrating to watch, that's all

I hear ya. I just want to see what they do in FA before I consider stepping onto the ledge.

Although, to be fair, they are trying to get something to show for losing Tru.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Why? Because of 10+ years of absolute FAIL, that's why! Under Fisher, we have had that moniker of the "youngest team in the NFL" for about three years....We have stayed away from most upper end free agents since the Jake Long, Scott Wells fiasco (mostly).

and our perennially losing team has no cachet of a 6 time Super Bowl champ, drawing FA's like flies. Sorry to unload on you, but whatever the fark we have been doing with the "youngest team in the NFL," has not worked..even a little.
(as far as blowing up the team, if we can't even resign a TruJo.....seems pretty freakin' sad if you ask me...We NEED homegrown vets, and we normally lose them after rookie deals...)

If it keeps going like this most of the RGIII bounty will be off the team. It goes to show how overblown the draft trades are. That trade didn't get the Rams past .500 even and half of the players picked from it are going to be gone. If RGIII had been the franchise QB that many thought he could be then Washington wins that trade like Atlanta won the Julio trade. Trading up to get a pick that lands a great player is worth it IMO. And if a team doesn't have a good QB then that makes it even more worthwhile. That is why I have no problem moving up for Goff. The importance of the position demands you take the risk.

Now, letting JJ and Tru go to other teams goes against the plan of drafting and keeping your own players. I predicted this back at the time of the trade. If a lot of these picks pan out, then there will be too many big contracts to be dealt in too small of a time frame. They can't sign them all, so the result would be diluted. They chose Tavon over Tru and JJ. The other priorities seem to be Brockers, Ogletree, and Donald. The Rams failed to make good use of all of those picks.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

So if we do indeed trade Tru, and McDonald becomes a free agent as expected, our secondary heading into the draft would be:

CB:
- EJ Gaines
- Troy Hill
- Blake Countess
- Lamarcus Joyner
- Mike Jordan

Safeties:
- Christian Marqui
- Isaiah Johnson
- Cody Davis
- Brian Randolph
- Maurice Alexander

Great.

Kind of makes me queasy.

 

[Mojo Ram]

Anyone else feel uncomfortable with this? It just feels dishonest. This isn't what the franchise tag is meant to do.

Not if Tru's agent and the Rams were unable to find common ground on a long term deal 2 years straight.
This way Tru gets paid(overpaid) and the Rams get compensation and find a way out.

Sounds good for both parties IMO. Tru will get his long term deal eventually and in the meantime he's filthy rich for the next 12 months.

 

[OldSchool]

2.) As already mentioned by many of you, Tru will never agree to a trade unless the team wanting his services is going to do sign and trade deal paying him just a hair under or even maybe a hair more than the contract terms Janoris Jenkins received in 2016.

I'm not aware that he can reject a trade. The only thing he can do is refuse to sign an extension if the Rams give a team permission to talk with him or his agent.

 

[VegasRam]

Your point is well taken on Jenkins, but McLeod? Nothing against Rodney, but Mo Alexander played well enough that we didn't miss him much if at all.

Cheers.
Nobody, and I mean nobody, as in NOBODY was raving about McLeod prior to his leaving.
Now, since someone else paid him, he's the greatest ever.

Reminds me of Ron Bartell. An OK corner that year, but since the FA market was lean at corner, he became the flavor of the month (year).

 

[OldSchool]

Maybe, I think it reduces the trade value. A trade can still be made but it doesn't end the trade. Besides we've heard players before say they wouldn't sign an extension then when those 4 year $65 millionish contracts are waived in front of their faces it's a different song they sing.

 

[jap]

If they can trade Tru and garner a 2nd round pick, they may try to grab a FA CB and add a couple of rookie CBs in this CB-rich draft. This is similar to what Snisher did in 2012, grabbing the veteran CB from Tennessee and adding Jenks & Tru.