Rams Select Braden Fiske, DL at #39 Overall.

[WestCoastRam]

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theathletic.com

8/9. Jared Verse & Braden Fiske, DL, Los Angeles Rams​

Verse playstyle: Edge rusher who wins with speed or power, average bend.

Fiske playstyle: Single-gap interior penetrator.

Scheme: Odd front, pattern match team.

Losing one of the greatest interior pass rushers ever is tough. No one can replace Aaron Donald. But the Rams have to do something to mitigate the gaping hole left by his absence. Asking one rookie to try to fill his shoes is an impossible task, so the Rams are asking two Seminoles to try.

Verse and Fiske played on the same defensive line for Florida State. The Rams had plans to bring the synergy between them to LA. After drafting Verse in the first round, they spent Day 2 working the phones to trade up in the second round to get Fiske. In Dane Brugler’s “The Beast,” he compared Verse to Dante Fowler, who had a career year playing in the Rams’ system in 2019. The Rams use odd fronts with two stand-up edge rushers and Verse has experience rushing standing up or with his hand in the ground. Verse fits what they typically look for in an edge linebacker more than incumbent starter Michael Hoecht, who is a converted nose tackle. Verse has some experience dropping back, which he’ll be asked to do.



GO DEEPER
How FSU teammates Jared Verse, Braden Fiske ended up together with Rams

Fiske has one of the quickest get-offs in the draft. He was one of the best testers at the combine and that athleticism pops off the film. Fiske is an explosive, violent and unrelenting defender but he’s undersized at 292 pounds and has short arms. In the Rams’ odd fronts, he can kick out and line up at four-technique (head up on tackles) so he doesn’t have to hold his ground in the A and B gaps too often.

It’ll remain to be seen how Fiske will hold up against the run, but the Rams hope the pair will be able to contribute to their pass rush immediately. Verse and Fiske were a nightmare to handle running their defensive line games (stunts) for Florida State.

“We don’t say ‘games‘ to each other anymore,” Verse said. “We just kind of look at each other, ‘Oh, you want to run this? I got you.’ … We talked about it, ‘Imagine if we go to the same team? That would be so cool.’ And now it happened!”

Defensive line games or stunts are line movements in which one player spikes in one direction to draw attention while the other loops around. Based on Verse’s comments, it seemed like the Florida State coaching staff gave Verse and Fiske the freedom to call their own line games. They may not have that sort of autonomy in the NFL but the Rams hope the chemistry between the two will be a feature of their defense for years to come.

Again, it’s impossible to replace the impact of Donald but I like the interesting way the Rams invested their first two picks in their pass rush.

 

[Noregar]

Again, I love this pick Cost be Damned!

Maybe we should start a separate post about the trade up that has been beaten to death in this thread.
However, since we are talking about the trade value in this thread...

For those wanting to solely "Blame" Snead for bad trade value, this trade did not happen in a vacuum. From what I heard in an interview, McVay mentioned Tony Pastors helped seal the deal. No one held a gun to their head; this was done willingly and with clear intent. They are the professionals whose careers depend on their success or failure. Most people are willing to pay more than standard for value/quality. If you really want something you are willing to pay a premium for it. In my personal life I am willing to spend money on things others would not and I also will not spend on some thing’s for which others are willing to pay good money. I bet that 5 years from now, even if Fiske is very successful there will be some pundits and probably a few fans that will still degrade the choice because of this perceived bad trade value. If Fiske does not work out, we will never hear the end of it regarding this trade-up.

 

[OldSchool]

Zero fucks given a out next years 2nd rounder. We got ourselves a key piece on the D that was greatly needed.

 

[HX76]

Carolina got a great deal and yet they’ll still be shit as the Rams waltz into the playoffs.

 

[WestCoastRam]

View: https://twitter.com/SethWalder/status/1784990676049961378

 

[Merlin]

View: https://twitter.com/SethWalder/status/1784990676049961378

It isn't about that. The lowered value in tomorrow's picks is directly related to the fact that unlike media experts the coaches and GMs in the NFL have to actually win games. A pick in the hand, thus, has greater value at that given moment and in that draft than a pick of tomorrow.

This is very simple shit.

 

[WestCoastRam]

It isn't about that. The lowered value in tomorrow's picks is directly related to the fact that unlike media experts the coaches and GMs in the NFL have to actually win games. A pick in the hand, thus, has greater value at that given moment and in that draft than a pick of tomorrow.

This is very simple shit.

Just some very interesting takes out there. I think there's a legit argument for all of them including us getting a good deal.

 

[JimY53]

Fiske vs Newton or Hamm (Ohio State) or others..

These are just examples, there are always going to be plenty of exceptions

but look where Williams is in the base or Penny fronts ... Rams tried or preferred
Donald to be a 3-tech ... outside shoulder of the guard. Can't always happen
but they like him at 3-tech (DT) and Williams at 4-tech (DE) .. sometimes
Williams would in inside the OT and be a 4i tech

Anyway, Newton? He's more of a 3-tech IMO, So would Rams have wanted him
head up on a OT? Probably not.

Do they want Kobie there at 4-tech? No, would be a waste of his talent.

But Fiske? Here? Makes sense. He does not have long arms like Jonah did
and Jonah got by probably because of his long arms, as much as anything,

But put Fiske here, even with short arms, but add the motor, the quick-twitch body
and he can probably play this position as an upgrade to WIlliams.

Turner will likely be the 3-tech but he won't be an upgrade but hope is --- he can at least
be very good.

Shots so you can see the slight difference in positions

the head up 4 tech ... or often 4i tech is red square, 3-tech yellow circle

 

[JimY53]

Against Giants---they run a lot of heavy personnel

Anyway, this week's game plan had Williams
at a 5-tech more often than vs Det, for example

Still, Donald the 3-tech

Putting a 3-tech in place of Williams to play
on a tackle, head up, shaded outside or
shaded inside .... was not what Rams wanted
to do, IMO

so they trade up to get a scheme fit...because there was no one else really like him

 

[dieterbrock]

Just watch the tape from the Florida and Louisville games, where FSU had literally no offense but had to win both games.
You'll see clearly that Verse should have been a top 10 draftee and Fiske a 1st rounder
So pumped for this draft

 

[Fallito]

Just watch the tape from the Florida and Louisville games, where FSU had literally no offense but had to win both games.
You'll see clearly that Verse should have been a top 10 draftee and Fiske a 1st rounder
So pumped for this draft

I saw yesterday the condensed ACC title game against Louisville and what they did to that poor quarterback in the final 5 minutes can qualify as manslaughter.

 

[JimY53]

Verse fits what they typically look for in an edge linebacker more than incumbent starter Michael Hoecht, who is a converted nose tackle. Verse has some experience dropping back, which he’ll be asked to do.

I wonder where they got that. If he played nose it was a little in college. I saw his college highlights and he was a DE and DT ... and yeah, DTs sometimes play over the center ... he wasn't a "nose".

For Rams he was a DE like Jonah Williams ... that kind of DI--4i-4-5th kind of guy, but not a nose. Until converted. Weird.

The Athletic usually gets facts better than that, though.

But, the rest of the points are solid.

 

[Mackeyser]

It isn't about that. The lowered value in tomorrow's picks is directly related to the fact that unlike media experts the coaches and GMs in the NFL have to actually win games. A pick in the hand, thus, has greater value at that given moment and in that draft than a pick of tomorrow.

This is very simple shit.

It’s the difference between economics and behavioral economics.

Economics would validate Seth’s take. Even with the variable unknown value of future picks within a round mitigated in large part because of the pay/performance disparity of top 1st round picks.

Behavioral economics would validate the current discount model due to the self interest manifest especially for NFL GMs who have the shortest tenure of all major sport GMs at only 2.1 years.

Both offer important insights and neither is definitive

 

[gogoat1]

This "old" thing.
So, how old is he ?

It was a actual question. Born Jan 2000.
Couple years older than a typical senior.
Kupp was 25ish when drafted by us.
McVay did say there were after "grown men" after all.
Looks like we got one !

 

[JimY53]

It’s the difference between economics and behavioral economics.

Economics would validate Seth’s take. Even with the variable unknown value of future picks within a round mitigated in large part because of the pay/performance disparity of top 1st round picks.

Behavioral economics would validate the current discount model due to the self interest manifest especially for NFL GMs who have the shortest tenure of all major sport GMs at only 2.1 years.

Both offer important insights and neither is definitive

Not only that, sometimes you want the V-8 and if it's the last one on the lot, you pay a premium instead of vetting the V-6.

 

[WestCoastRam]

I wonder where they got that. If he played nose it was a little in college. I saw his college highlights and he was a DE and DT ... and yeah, DTs sometimes play over the center ... he wasn't a "nose".

For Rams he was a DE like Jonah Williams ... that kind of DI--4i-4-5th kind of guy, but not a nose. Until converted. Weird.

The Athletic usually gets facts better than that, though.

But, the rest of the points are solid.

Ted's a pretty great reporter and his cut ups are fantastic but he's mostly a Raiders reporter for Athletic and does a smattering of national stuff, I'm not shocked if he gets a few details wrong on a 3rd tier lineman.

 

[Merlin]

It’s the difference between economics and behavioral economics.

Economics would validate Seth’s take. Even with the variable unknown value of future picks within a round mitigated in large part because of the pay/performance disparity of top 1st round picks.

Behavioral economics would validate the current discount model due to the self interest manifest especially for NFL GMs who have the shortest tenure of all major sport GMs at only 2.1 years.

Both offer important insights and neither is definitive

Seth is trying to use logic from a different set of rules to draw an argument that futures picks have the same value as a current pick. I think that is fundamentally flawed. To say that economics can offer insight is not wrong. But the coach and GM who buys that argument will be at a disadvantage vs the ones who do not.

There of course could be circumstances that favor a futures pick. Like when it's an offer from a dumbfuck owner whose team you are sure will tank. But for that to be the desirable trade offer over a current pick there need to be some things aligned to make it make sense. Like a stronger draft the next year in the position you covet. Or the current pick is too low for your liking and thus you are certain the futures pick will be a much better player.

But structurally to say one = two is wrong I think.

 

[Allen2McVay]

I posted on this topic a couple days ago, and regretted it. Here I go again. I'm a fucking idiot.

How about thinking Big Picture, Common Sense, Reality and Facts.

1st off, put the Trade Value Charts to the side for a moment. They are guidelines ... tools that can be helpful.

2nd, lets also set aside the late round picks involved. They are not meaningless but this is a Big Picture post.

The Rams gave-up next year's second round pick to move-up 13 spots. That seemed like a lot to give-up.

Fact: 4 DL went between 35 and 39. There was a big drop-off after that.

Fact: Only 5 DL went between 40-100. Only 3 of them were between the Rams' two 3rd rounders at 52 and 99.

Reality: Moving-up to select Braden Fiske was important to the Rams.

Fact: 5 minutes before their trade, Atlanta moved-up 8 spots (43-to-35) and gave up their 3rd round pick (#79).

Common Sense: The Rams' 3rd round pick (#83) would NOT have been enough to move-up 13 spots (52-to-39).

Reality: The Rams probably could have made the deal for their 2nd (52) and BOTH their 3rd rounders (83, 99).

Fact/Reality: That means the Rams would not pick again until #154. No Blake Corum or Kamren Kinchens.

Big Picture: I really like this Player. Great fit ... fills a huge need. And, some of you guys are Harshing My Buzz.

 

[RamFan503]

Not only that, sometimes you want the V-8 and if it's the last one on the lot, you pay a premium instead of vetting the V-6.

Especially if the V8 won't even be available the next year.

 

[DzRams]

View: https://twitter.com/SethWalder/status/1784990676049961378

I get what he's saying theoretically but that doesn't account for human nature. Why would I want to wait for pick #80 next year if I can get pick #80 this year? There's got to be some incentive to make someone wait a year for their payout.

Once you factor in that front office execs may not have a job next year, it's a no brainer that there will always be some type of discount.