Rams chat with Jim Thomas: 4/21/15

[kurtfaulk]

.

I had the good fortune to make love to a cookie that discharged wisdom. The cookie was shaped like a woman, only sweeter.

.

 

[Alan]

Mackeyser stealing my lines:
You bought the whole bag of fortune cookies, dintchya?

That's exactly what I was thinking.

 

[Faceplant]

Wow. I used to enjoy JTs stuff. He is becoming a serious pouty puss though. I really don't see any value in his reports anymore.... Most likely because he doesn't have any more info than we do. Gotta be tough for him I guess...

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I totally agree. Looking at the Rams FO moves re: the OL, either they are clinically insane or they truly believe in the talent they have in the building. At least as much as was out there in FA.

I think Barrett Jones is ready to turn the corner, probably at guard and Rhaney is someone who really sparked at C. Now... If both are healthy...both are HUGE upgrades over Wells and Joseph. And again, Wells played because Jones and Rhaney were injured, not because Wells "couldn't be displaced."

The good news is that if what I and CoachO and others surmise is true, than our OL is actually pretty close and really may not need the huge influx of picks folks are suggesting.

Time will tell, but I have a hard time believing that these guys would place their jobs in the hands of guys they didn't have complete faith and confidence in.

Mack, and @CoachO, I try to be positive in most things in life but I have always been a critical thinker. When something is broke I instinctively look to fix it. I am not a man of faith. After watching last years Oline, I don't see how anyone has faith in what is already there. I can only go off of what I see. None of us spend time with the coaches, or I assume not. Maybe CoachO actually is friends with one of them. It is possible. He lives in the same city, and I would not blame anyone for protecting their sources, especially sources of that magnitude. But short of any inside information we cannot know anything beyond what we see. I told you what I see.

Assuming that Jones will be a mirror of what he was in college is wishful thinking at this point. How many years have we waited for injured players to reach their full potential? A Lis Franc injury is in the foot. A weak foot can cause a person to favor that foot. It can negatively affect their balance, which can lead to a serious back injury. A football player with a back injury is not a good thing. If you consider an Olineman bends over and pushes against DTs, it is easy to see that it is a bad situation. The exact same thing happened to my father in law but he was not fighting with three hundred pound men, he was washing his RV.

Barnes has been on the roster for more than a year and Wells has been bad for the last two. Can he develop? Is he a highly sought commodity? Any team could have signed him but didn't, so....

Rhaney on the otherhand reportedly impressed coaches. So we dont really know anything about him. I hope that the praise was not typical, motivational coach talk. Either way he was a bit raw coming in so if he can start at Center this year, it would be a miracle for this team. I hope God is feeling generous here because the Rams need some good fortune on the Oline for a change. But the only way to make good fortune is by being proactive and drafting some durable non injured players that have already played at the top level, and played well. I know it is the easy fix but as a fanatic that is what I want because the time is now.

 

[Alan]

Elmgrovegnome speaking from the brain:
I hope Bhudda is feeling generous here because the Rams need some good fortune on the Oline for a change. But the only way to make good fortune is by being proactive and drafting some durable non injured players that have already played at the top level, and played well.

Other than that small error I fixed for you, I agree with all your thoughts in your last post (not just the ones I quoted). Knowing that, you might want to rethink your position.

 

[Rmfnlt]

I personally believe if they stay Jim Thomas is going to get fired. They don't want to replace him now while the team staying is in question, but I'm sure they are seeing the garbage he is putting out there.

And I'd bet you all my ROD dollars that they won't.

The man's been there from the start and done a very good job overall.

If the Rams don't finish above .500, I think I'd put my money out there that Jeff Fisher is gone and Thomas remains.

He's managed to make it through all the other changes.

 

[Rmfnlt]

How many times must it be said? Georgia is gone (RIP); Ziggy is gone; Linehan is gone; Devaney is gone; Spags is gone. Hell ... Shaw is gone (for the most part). Why do those 11 years hang on to this regime?

See, this is where comprehension is critical...

He's not saying it's on the current regime... he's simply saying that 11 non-winning seasons can take a toll on the dan base. That is pretty darned close to a fact... it has.

If anything, he's defending the current regime by pointing that out.,.. as in "it's not their fault, but....

Does that makes sense to you?

 

[Ram Quixote]

See, this is where comprehension is critical...

He's not saying it's on the current regime... he's simply saying that 11 non-winning seasons can take a toll on the dan base. That is pretty darned close to a fact... it has.

If anything, he's defending the current regime by pointing that out.,.. as in "it's not their fault, but....

Does that makes sense to you?

Except for the part where he's pissed at Fisher and company. That's not so hard to see.

 

[Prime Time]

He's not saying it's on the current regime... he's simply saying that 11 non-winning seasons can take a toll on the dan base. That is pretty darned close to a fact... it has.

See, this is what I don't get. To me a fan is a fanatic for their team. They love the team and follow them no matter what. Hope springs eternal for that kind of fan each year when training camp opens. There is no toll.

The other kind of fan only gets excited and shows up when their team wins consistently. They're referred to as "fair weather" fans.

I've been doing the Rams forum thing for many years. The people here at ROD, and I assume those at other Rams forums, are fanatics. Who else would show up here day after day, year after year, and argue about a team that hasn't had a winning record since 2003?


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7L_3onytfI

 

[CoachO]

Mack, and @CoachO, I try to be positive in most things in life but I have always been a critical thinker. When something is broke I instinctively look to fix it. I am not a man of faith. After watching last years Oline, I don't see how anyone has faith in what is already there. I can only go off of what I see. None of us spend time with the coaches, or I assume not. Maybe CoachO actually is friends with one of them. It is possible. He lives in the same city, and I would not blame anyone for protecting their sources, especially sources of that magnitude. But short of any inside information we cannot know anything beyond what we see. I told you what I see.

Assuming that Jones will be a mirror of what he was in college is wishful thinking at this point. How many years have we waited for injured players to reach their full potential? A Lis Franc injury is in the foot. A weak foot can cause a person to favor that foot. It can negatively affect their balance, which can lead to a serious back injury. A football player with a back injury is not a good thing. If you consider an Olineman bends over and pushes against DTs, it is easy to see that it is a bad situation. The exact same thing happened to my father in law but he was not fighting with three hundred pound men, he was washing his RV.

Barnes has been on the roster for more than a year and Wells has been bad for the last two. Can he develop? Is he a highly sought commodity? Any team could have signed him but didn't, so....

Rhaney on the otherhand reportedly impressed coaches. So we dont really know anything about him. I hope that the praise was not typical, motivational coach talk. Either way he was a bit raw coming in so if he can start at Center this year, it would be a miracle for this team. I hope God is feeling generous here because the Rams need some good fortune on the Oline for a change. But the only way to make good fortune is by being proactive and drafting some durable non injured players that have already played at the top level, and played well. I know it is the easy fix but as a fanatic that is what I want because the time is now.

Barnes let the Rams know from the outset he wanted to return. The Rams stayed in constant communication with him throughout the process. When they came to an agreement, Tim Barnes was in the middle of taking his physical for the Kansas City Chiefs. Who by the way, happens to be the team in HIS hometown. He received an offer from them, but it wasn't enough to sway him from remaining a St. Louis Ram. So, to say he wasn't sought after, or didn't have other options, as was the case with Rodney McLeod, who you referenced in a previous post....... just isn't accurate.

You continue to make comments, while painting with a broad brush.... "Barnes has been on the roster for more than a year, and Wells has been bad for the last two" just isn't accurate. Its quite subjective to say that Wells has been bad for the last two years, when in fact, he was pretty good when healthy. There in lies the biggest issue with Scott Wells. When he came back from the broken foot in 2012, he played quite well, as did the entire unit at that point. When he was on the field in 2013, he played "well enough". He missed the last 4 games, and Barnes stepped in. Admittedly, at the time, Tim Barnes was not "ready".

Physically, he wasn't strong enough. But that all changed when he came back to training camp LAST YEAR. I have posted this in a few other threads, all the talk was about how Barrett Jones had reshaped his body, and gotten stronger. But, the more noticeable change, was in Tim Barnes. The day he stepped onto the practice field, he "looked" the part of a legitimate NFL Lineman. He had a very good training camp. But being the last man standing , so to speak, (Wells recovering from the tick bite, Jones having back surgery, and Rhaney being a raw rookie), Barnes took 2 out of every 3 reps in camp for the first 3 weeks. As he became more dinged up, (pinched nerve in his neck), and with the return of a now undersized Scott Wells, they moved forward with the plan was to have the veteran presence on the field.

The "plan" was to have Wells and Jake Long on opposite sides of a young, raw rookie G. Robinson. Made perfect sense. But when Robinson didn't pick things up as quickly as hoped, they felt the better solution was to move Saffold, and play Joseph. Just when things started to fall into place with Robinson at LG, and moving Saffold back to RG, J. Long goes down. So, say what you want about last year, and the failure to produce..... They actually had a sound plan in place, that was completely derailed by injuries.

If they would have stayed healthy, having Long, Robinson, Wells, Saffold Barksdale would have been a very sound unit. With Barnes, Jones, Person and yes, even Davin Joseph as your DEPTH, would have been a very good and versatile unit.

So here we are. They release Long, Wells, and Joseph. They lose Mike Person. They bring back Barnes, Washington, Rhaney, Jones and Travis Bond, along with Saffold and Robinson. They go out and get Garrett Reynolds. While most fans tend to under value guys they don't know much about, IMO, if this coaching staff wasn't comfortable with guys that are still here, it would have been very easy to let them go as well. At some point, guys who they have chosen to keep around for the 3rd and 4th year, will show why. As I said in an earlier post, I think one can make an argument that there are a whole lot more cases of players such as Barnes, who entering his 4th year, develop into a solid NFL player, than can be made when talking about the "plug and play" success stories.

That being said, one has to assume they will add someone early in the draft to throw in the mix, and round out the unit heading into the OTAs and Training Camp. And until Barksdale and/or Blaylock sign elsewhere, I would think they remain part of the equation moving forward.

 

[fearsomefour]

Barnes let the Rams know from the outset he wanted to return. The Rams stayed in constant communication with him throughout the process. When they came to an agreement, Tim Barnes was in the middle of taking his physical for the Kansas City Chiefs. Who by the way, happens to be the team in HIS hometown. He received an offer from them, but it wasn't enough to sway him from remaining a St. Louis Ram. So, to say he wasn't sought after, or didn't have other options, as was the case with Rodney McLeod, who you referenced in a previous post....... just isn't accurate.

You continue to make comments, while painting with a broad brush.... "Barnes has been on the roster for more than a year, and wells has been bad for the last two" just isn't accurate. Its quite subjective to say that Wells has been bad for the last two years, when in fact, he was pretty good when healthy. There in lies the biggest issue with Scott Wells. When he came back from the broken foot in 2012, he played quite well, as did the entire unit at that point. When he was on the field in 2013, he played "well enough". He missed the last 4 games, and Barnes stepped in. Admittedly, at the time, Tim Barnes was not "ready".

Physically, he wasn't strong enough. But that all changed when he came back to training camp LAST YEAR. I have posted this in a few other threads, all the talk was about how Barrett Jones had reshaped his body, and gotten stronger. But, the more noticeable change, was in Tim Barnes. The day he stepped onto the practice field, he "looked" the part of a legitimate NFL Lineman. He had a very good training camp. But being the last man standing , so to speak, (Wells recovering from the tick bite, Jones having back surgery, and Rhaney being a raw rookie), Barnes took 2 out of every 3 reps in camp for the first 3 weeks. As he became more dinged up, (pinched nerve in his neck), and with the return of a now undersized Scott Wells, they moved forward with the plan was to have the veteran presence on the field.

The "plan" was to have Wells and Jake Long on opposite sides of a young, raw rookie G. Robinson. Made perfect sense. But when Robinson didn't pick things up as quickly as hoped, they felt the better solution was to move Saffold, and play Joseph. Just when things started to fall into place with Robinson at LG, and moving Saffold back to RG, J. Long goes down. So, say what you want about last year, and the failure to produce..... They actually had a sound plan in place, that was completely derailed by injuries.

If they would have stayed healthy, having Long, Robinson, Wells, Saffold Barksdale would have been a very sound unit. With Barnes, Jones, Person and yes, even Davin Joseph as your DEPTH, would have been a very good and versatile unit.

So here we are. They release Long, Wells, and Joseph. They lose Mike Person. They bring back Barnes, Washington, Rhaney, Jones and Travis Bond, along with Saffold and Robinson. They go out and get Garrett Reynolds. While most fans tend to under value guys they don't know much about, IMO, if this coaching staff wasn't comfortable with guys that are still here, it would have been very easy to let them go as well. At some point, guys who they have chosen to keep around for the 3rd and 4th year, will show why. As I said in an earlier post, I think one can make an argument that there are a whole lot more cases of players such as Barnes, who entering his 4th year, develop into a solid NFL player, than can be made when talking about the "plug and play" success stories.

That being said, one has to assume they will add someone early in the draft to throw in the mix, and round out the unit heading into the OTAs and Training Camp. And until Barksdale and/or Blaylock sign elsewhere, I would think they remain part of the equation moving forward.

I forgot about Well and that tick bite and losing weight.
The Wells signing was a good one as it made sense and was an upgrade when he was signed. He was solid in my opinion until last year when the wheels came off. You make a good point about having a plan in place....no team in the league probably has enough depth to deal with multiple injuries to the starting line. Look at SF last year....they had a heralded line that went to crap. A lot of the sacks I do put on Kap however, but, once the injuries piled up their line and by extension their O was not the same.
I really wanted Person back as I think he offered a real versatility and I like his athleticism at G. I don't know if he was big enough to hold up over the course of a season at G but he impressed me last preseason, playing T and G in one preseason game and doing well.
I am excited to see Rhaney again this preseason. Really liked what he showed in the limited action he got last preseason.
You make a good point about fans (I include myself in this) wanting the "comfort" of the known entity. It may very well be that the coaches like what they have. That they project a starting interior line (for example) with Barnes, Jones and Saffold and are just not comfortable with that but excited about it based on what they have seen and are seeing with the players development.
It is easy to take the approach the Dodgers take with starting pitching....they have minor league teams stacked with highly rated prospects yet every offseason they bring in veteran pitchers at $10-12 M a year to fill out the second half of their starting rotation.
At some point, lets see what the kids can do....

 

[CoachO]

I forgot about Well and that tick bite and losing weight.
The Wells signing was a good one as it made sense and was an upgrade when he was signed. He was solid in my opinion until last year when the wheels came off. You make a good point about having a plan in place....no team in the league probably has enough depth to deal with multiple injuries to the starting line. Look at SF last year....they had a heralded line that went to crap. A lot of the sacks I do put on Kap however, but, once the injuries piled up their line and by extension their O was not the same.
I really wanted Person back as I think he offered a real versatility and I like his athleticism at G. I don't know if he was big enough to hold up over the course of a season at G but he impressed me last preseason, playing T and G in one preseason game and doing well.
I am excited to see Rhaney again this preseason. Really liked what he showed in the limited action he got last preseason.
You make a good point about fans (I include myself in this) wanted the "comfort" of the known entity. It may very be that the coaches like what they have. That they project a starting interior line (for example) with Barnes, Jones and Saffold and are just not comfortable with that but excited about it based on what they have seen and are seeing with the players development.
It is easy to take the approach the Dodgers take with starting pitching....they have minor league teams stacked with highly rated prospects yet every offseason they bring in veteran pitchers at $10-12 M a year to fill out the second half of their starting rotation.
At some point, lets see what the kids can do....

I also think that the unknown variable here is G. Reynolds. While he isn't a high profile player, he is versatile (something Boudreau craves), and his best position seems to be Left Guard. I am not suggesting they are planning on him in that role, but it's food for thought. But players such as Jones, Washington, Barnes and Rhaney all offer a lot of versatility in that they ALL can play multiple positions.

Now, if they are able to bring back Barksdale, or sign Blaylock, and draft someone like Scherff (or any of the highly touted draft options), suddenly this whole unit has an entirely different look and feel to it.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Barnes let the Rams know from the outset he wanted to return. The Rams stayed in constant communication with him throughout the process. When they came to an agreement, Tim Barnes was in the middle of taking his physical for the Kansas City Chiefs. Who by the way, happens to be the team in HIS hometown. He received an offer from them, but it wasn't enough to sway him from remaining a St. Louis Ram. So, to say he wasn't sought after, or didn't have other options, as was the case with Rodney McLeod, who you referenced in a previous post....... just isn't accurate.

You continue to make comments, while painting with a broad brush.... "Barnes has been on the roster for more than a year, and Wells has been bad for the last two" just isn't accurate. Its quite subjective to say that Wells has been bad for the last two years, when in fact, he was pretty good when healthy. There in lies the biggest issue with Scott Wells. When he came back from the broken foot in 2012, he played quite well, as did the entire unit at that point. When he was on the field in 2013, he played "well enough". He missed the last 4 games, and Barnes stepped in. Admittedly, at the time, Tim Barnes was not "ready".

Physically, he wasn't strong enough. But that all changed when he came back to training camp LAST YEAR. I have posted this in a few other threads, all the talk was about how Barrett Jones had reshaped his body, and gotten stronger. But, the more noticeable change, was in Tim Barnes. The day he stepped onto the practice field, he "looked" the part of a legitimate NFL Lineman. He had a very good training camp. But being the last man standing , so to speak, (Wells recovering from the tick bite, Jones having back surgery, and Rhaney being a raw rookie), Barnes took 2 out of every 3 reps in camp for the first 3 weeks. As he became more dinged up, (pinched nerve in his neck), and with the return of a now undersized Scott Wells, they moved forward with the plan was to have the veteran presence on the field.

The "plan" was to have Wells and Jake Long on opposite sides of a young, raw rookie G. Robinson. Made perfect sense. But when Robinson didn't pick things up as quickly as hoped, they felt the better solution was to move Saffold, and play Joseph. Just when things started to fall into place with Robinson at LG, and moving Saffold back to RG, J. Long goes down. So, say what you want about last year, and the failure to produce..... They actually had a sound plan in place, that was completely derailed by injuries.

If they would have stayed healthy, having Long, Robinson, Wells, Saffold Barksdale would have been a very sound unit. With Barnes, Jones, Person and yes, even Davin Joseph as your DEPTH, would have been a very good and versatile unit.

So here we are. They release Long, Wells, and Joseph. They lose Mike Person. They bring back Barnes, Washington, Rhaney, Jones and Travis Bond, along with Saffold and Robinson. They go out and get Garrett Reynolds. While most fans tend to under value guys they don't know much about, IMO, if this coaching staff wasn't comfortable with guys that are still here, it would have been very easy to let them go as well. At some point, guys who they have chosen to keep around for the 3rd and 4th year, will show why. As I said in an earlier post, I think one can make an argument that there are a whole lot more cases of players such as Barnes, who entering his 4th year, develop into a solid NFL player, than can be made when talking about the "plug and play" success stories.

That being said, one has to assume they will add someone early in the draft to throw in the mix, and round out the unit heading into the OTAs and Training Camp. And until Barksdale and/or Blaylock sign elsewhere, I would think they remain part of the equation moving forward.

I hope you are right Coach. Forgive me if I am skeptical. I really would be elated if even only one of them became a good NFL starter, not just a mediocre guy like Barksdale that we will always speculate being replaced. I may be incorrect but I think I remember Hammer being shocked that Washington was kept on the roster based on his camp time.

I just have little faith in this staff's Oline logic. Bringing in an oft injured OLT, signing an aged and injured Center and picking up scraps from other teams releases looked like a logical first step to be a stopgap, to buy them time to build some depth and get better starters. I never thought it was the actual plan for the next 3 - 5 years, as it turned out to be. Putting all of the chips into that line containing Saffold, Wells, and Long and expecting them to stay healthy was foolish, but that reflects on the route that they have chosen from the beginning regarding the Oline hasn't? Drafting an already injured Jones and continuing to grab every reject they could get their hands on is not really a winning plan.

I hope they do sign Blalock and even Barksdale in case they don't draft any linemen high. But I hope that the plan is to add some more highly regarded youth into the mix. If they do and the new guys fail then at least they went ahead with a more sound approach. Watching the QBs get killed because of bad Oline play is quite tiresome, as is watching my team miss the playoffs every year, mainly because of how the Oline was handled.

 

[rams24/7]

Pead has Value as 3rd down back, KR, Gunner. With Mason #1, Cunningham and Pead as 3rd down backs, bigger question would be Givens or Stacy - neither have ST value, limited in what they bring, and are lower on the depth chart at their positions

Pead is done. Plus everything Pead can do Watts does well and at a fraction of the cost and not coming off an ACL

 

[CoachO]

I hope you are right Coach. Forgive me if I am skeptical. I really would be elated if even only one of them became a good NFL starter, not just a mediocre guy like Barksdale that we will always speculate being replaced. I may be incorrect but I think I remember Hammer being shocked that Washington was kept on the roster based on his camp time.

I just have little faith in this staff's Oline logic. Bringing in an oft injured OLT, signing an aged and injured Center and picking up scraps from other teams releases looked like a logical first step to be a stopgap, to buy them time to build some depth and get better starters. I never thought it was the actual plan for the next 3 - 5 years, as it turned out to be. Putting all of the chips into that line containing Saffold, Wells, and Long and expecting them to stay healthy was foolish, but that reflects on the route that they have chosen from the beginning regarding the Oline hasn't? Drafting an already injured Jones and continuing to grab every reject they could get their hands on is not really a winning plan.

I hope they do sign Blalock and even Barksdale in case they don't draft any linemen high. But I hope that the plan is to add some more highly regarded youth into the mix. If they do and the new guys fail then at least they went ahead with a more sound approach. Watching the QBs get killed because of bad Oline play is quite tiresome, as is watching my team miss the playoffs every year, mainly because of how the Oline was handled.

Actually, it was not only Hammer, but I agreed with him, about Washington. But he has obviously shown them something to still be here. He missed a lot of training camp last year, but the first day back, he was inserted immediately into the mix. I will be the first to admit, he looked much improved over his first training camp here. So, at least for me, if he improves over what I saw last year, he could be a shining example of "developing".

I always find it to be a little contradictory when people (not you specifically) say they need to bring in guys they can develop, and then immediately dismiss guys like Barnes, Jones, Washington, Bond, because they aren't ProBowlers by now. Saying that drafting Barrett Jones was a mistake because he was still recovering from his foot injury just doesn't make sense to me, unless people who are saying that somehow expected him to be an immediate "plug and play" addition. IMO, they never planned on his first year being anything more than a "red-shirt" year, and they would and could develop him. Last year's back injury did more to delay his progress than the foot injury coming out.

Drafting linemen, especially interior linemen, and expecting them to be instant all stars is even more risky than bringing in veterans regardless of "injury" concerns. When they signed Scott Wells, he was coming off a ProBowl season, and had a minor scope to his knee. His rehab was delayed due to unexpected personal (family) issues with the adoption of a child and an unplanned overseas trip. Even at that, he was ready Week One. His knee wasn't the reason he broke his foot in the 1st half of the 1st game of the season. Prior to that, he had been a model of consistency for the Packers in terms of durability. IMO, it's a revisionist approach to second guess the signing based on his "being injury prone".

As far as "putting all of the chips" into Long, Wells and Saffold. I suppose you can make a case for that being risky. But, Wells wasn't "injured" leading into the season. And please tell me, how they (or anyone including you) could have predicted his life threatening illness from a tick bite just weeks before training camp. I would venture to guess, had that not occurred, we wouldn't be talking about Scott Wells not playing well, and he would still be the starting Center for the STL Rams. But it did happen, and here we are.

I guess we can just agree to disagree on how things shape up. For me, I look at it as being April 23rd, and what they have on paper TODAY, is no where close to being what they will go into training camp with come July 24th. I just don't share the "doom and gloom" that a lot of people seem to have. I have always tried to take the approach of seeing the "what" they are doing, and understanding the "why" they are doing it. I just think that they have a better handle on things than many give them credit for. Say what you want, they had a "plan" in place last year. It was a sound one. It just didn't come together due to an abnormal rash of injuries (AGAIN).

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

@CoachO the main reason that I have said all along that drafted Jones with a fourth round pick is because of the type of injury he had. Lys Franc injuries have ruined sports careers because of lasting affects.

Right now looking at the backups on the Oline if I was to put any faith into someone developing it would be Rhaney and that is due to his great athleticism and the praise from the coaches last year, assuming it was not just coachspeak. If Barnes can pull a Lyle Sendlein, or Jones can be the next Greco, or even better, Mathis then great. I would be as pleased as any normal Rams fan could be. But I am not content thinking that they are the future of the offensive line in St. Louis.

Maybe I should be from Missouri because 'show me' tends to be my motto with things like this. So yes. I agree to disagree, and will eat crow if one or both of them become starters and play well enough for us not to think they need replaced in the next draft.

 

[iced]

Pead is done. Plus everything Pead can do Watts does well and at a fraction of the cost and not coming off an ACL

disagree - Pead is by far our best 3rd down back, closest is Cunningham. Not to mention Pead was the gunner when we had one of the higher end ST units.

If money is your crutch then givens goes - his cap hit is higher and doesn't have a role outside WR

 

[Dieter the Brock]

Actually, it was not only Hammer, but I agreed with him, about Washington. But he has obviously shown them something to still be here. He missed a lot of training camp last year, but the first day back, he was inserted immediately into the mix. I will be the first to admit, he looked much improved over his first training camp here. So, at least for me, if he improves over what I saw last year, he could be a shining example of "developing".

I always find it to be a little contradictory when people (not you specifically) say they need to bring in guys they can develop, and then immediately dismiss guys like Barnes, Jones, Washington, Bond, because they aren't ProBowlers by now. Saying that drafting Barrett Jones was a mistake because he was still recovering from his foot injury just doesn't make sense to me, unless people who are saying that somehow expected him to be an immediate "plug and play" addition. IMO, they never planned on his first year being anything more than a "red-shirt" year, and they would and could develop him. Last year's back injury did more to delay his progress than the foot injury coming out.

Drafting linemen, especially interior linemen, and expecting them to be instant all stars is even more risky than bringing in veterans regardless of "injury" concerns. When they signed Scott Wells, he was coming off a ProBowl season, and had a minor scope to his knee. His rehab was delayed due to unexpected personal (family) issues with the adoption of a child and an unplanned overseas trip. Even at that, he was ready Week One. His knee wasn't the reason he broke his foot in the 1st half of the 1st game of the season. Prior to that, he had been a model of consistency for the Packers in terms of durability. IMO, it's a revisionist approach to second guess the signing based on his "being injury prone".

As far as "putting all of the chips" into Long, Wells and Saffold. I suppose you can make a case for that being risky. But, Wells wasn't "injured" leading into the season. And please tell me, how they (or anyone including you) could have predicted his life threatening illness from a tick bite just weeks before training camp. I would venture to guess, had that not occurred, we wouldn't be talking about Scott Wells not playing well, and he would still be the starting Center for the STL Rams. But it did happen, and here we are.

I guess we can just agree to disagree on how things shape up. For me, I look at it as being April 23rd, and what they have on paper TODAY, is no where close to being what they will go into training camp with come July 24th. I just don't share the "doom and gloom" that a lot of people seem to have. I have always tried to take the approach of seeing the "what" they are doing, and understanding the "why" they are doing it. I just think that they have a better handle on things than many give them credit for. Say what you want, they had a "plan" in place last year. It was a sound one. It just didn't come together due to an abnormal rash of injuries (AGAIN).

Well said!!!!!!!

 

[RamFan503]

@CoachO and @Elmgrovegnome I just wanted to say - nice back and forth. I really enjoyed reading that. The different takes were interesting and though you obviously don't agree, it never got into bad vibe territory - just strong opinions and stating your cases.

 

[rams24/7]

disagree - Pead is by far our best 3rd down back, closest is Cunningham. Not to mention Pead was the gunner when we had one of the higher end ST units.

If money is your crutch then givens goes - his cap hit is higher and doesn't have a role outside WR

I wouldn't say he's "by far our best 3rd down back." Off of what sample size. 3 preseasons and a decent start to 2013? Nah. I'll wait for Pead to prove me wrong before I buy into him even making the team, let alone becoming a contributor.

1. You make the argument that he's our best 3rd down back. Debatable. I think Benny is our best pass blocking RB and offers ample ability in the passing game. Watts contributed on a few 3rd down conversions as well last year and has a similar skill set to Pead at about half the cost ($510k).

2. You mentioned his ST contributions. Isn't that what we resigned Chase Reynolds for? Watts wasn't too shabby by the end of the year either. Not to mention that Benny was a top 5 KR.

Bottom line is Pead has proved time and time again that he's nothing special. I'm not giving him a roster spot over an undrafted rookie, etc. with upside when everything Pead offers we already get from other players.