Petition to Replace Vinovitch with a Different Ref

[LesBaker]

That comes out to:

Rams- 72 penalty ypg and 7.6 penalties/gm
Opponent- 39.6 penalty ypg and 4.5 penalties/gm

So almost double the penalty yardage on average. Yikes.

Is this a big shock? The Rams for 5 years led the league in penalties. Any refs were calling more against them for sloppy stupid play.

I read it. You haven't made a single argument that explains the discrepancy. You attempted to argue that Fisher's teams were just penalty-prone, but that isn't an adequate explanation nor does it explain why the anomalous results have continued under McVay.

Yeah I did make an argument, you missed it evidently. I think you just want to fight about this because you cannot admit that the actual facts lead to a conclusion you were not expecting.

It isn't an attempt to make a point that Fisher's teams were the most penalized. It IS the point. They were when he was in TEN too if I recall. So it's not an attempt, it's a demonstrable fact. You see the rankings, I spelled it all out. Subtract all of the penalties called in the 5 games this particular ref crew called and that group of Rams teams would STILL be on top of the list or top 5 at least. How do you not see that unless you are just willingly blind to the actual facts.

It's not true that this particular ref had a continuing trend. In fact the opposite, it balanced out and I did the math for the McVay games to date. And penalties under McVay and this staff are massively reduced, including when this particular crew is working Rams games.

It's pretty clear.

And I guaran-GD-tee you that if the shoe had been on the other foot - had Cam been pushed OOB and tore his ACL and a Rams player stood over exulting like that, that crew would have assessed us an unnecessary roughness penalty, unsportsmanlike conduct penalty, or both.

Well I don't think you can guarantee that. All you can do is guess.

I'll say this. I see many plays like that every single week by every single team. Other than the injury of course. Players celebrate a TFL when their team is down 35-14. This was a routine play. The defender was clearly NOT standing over Bradford "exulting". He was doing the same shit most of these ego maniacs do when they make a tackle. They act like it was The Tackle.

 

[André]

Signed!

 

[DR RAM]

It almost certainly won't do anything, but I figured it can't hurt to sign:
https://www.change.org/p/roger-good...m_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=share_petition

Share everywhere you can. Let's get as many Rams fans to sign as possible. At minimum, if we get media attention, it might pressure Vinovitch into calling a fair game.

Done

 

[rdlkgliders]

I am really getting into this petition thing. I am thinking of starting one Petitioning the saints on behalf of AARP to bench Brees as he is old and needs rest

 

[jrry32]

Yeah I did make an argument, you missed it evidently. I think you just want to fight about this because you cannot admit that the actual facts lead to a conclusion you were not expecting.

It isn't an attempt to make a point that Fisher's teams were the most penalized. It IS the point. They were when he was in TEN too if I recall. So it's not an attempt, it's a demonstrable fact. You see the rankings, I spelled it all out. Subtract all of the penalties called in the 5 games this particular ref crew called and that group of Rams teams would STILL be on top of the list or top 5 at least. How do you not see that unless you are just willingly blind to the actual facts.

It's not true that this particular ref had a continuing trend. In fact the opposite, it balanced out and I did the math for the McVay games to date. And penalties under McVay and this staff are massively reduced, including when this particular crew is working Rams games.

It's pretty clear.

It's amusing that you think this is just about penalties. The actual facts are on my side. They've already been laid out in this thread.
Fact #1: We are 0-8 with Vinovitch as our ref despite being 55-48-1 without him since 2012.
Fact #2: Vinovitch has never assessed the Rams' opponent more penalty yardage. That includes the games that McVay coached.
Fact #3: On average, we nearly double the penalty yardage assessed when compared to our opponents in the games Vinovitch has reffed since 2012.
Fact #4: Vinovitch is the only ref to have ejected Aaron Donald.
Fact #5: Vinovitch is the only ref to have ejected Chris Long.

At best, you gave context to #3. Although, you still haven't explained why the Rams have continued to be assessed more penalty yardage than their opponents even after Sean McVay took over. You may not remember #5, but I sure do. I remember how garbage the guy has been to us for years. I remember the fight that the Panthers started. I remember Steve Smith being in the middle of it throwing punches. I remember Chris Long being the only guy ejected and flagged. I remember a whole host of other bogus calls and decisions by Vinovitch and his crew.

Our 0-8 record isn't random. He's biased against us. Feel free to fight this one out until the bitter end, but it's quite clear that I'm not alone in my belief. Then again, I guess we're all just homers, and you're the only sane one.

 

[majrleaged]

That comes out to:

Rams- 72 penalty ypg and 7.6 penalties/gm
Opponent- 39.6 penalty ypg and 4.5 penalties/gm

So almost double the penalty yardage on average. Yikes.

For 5 years of that we were in the top 2 or 3 most penalized teams in the league. I have agreed in another thread earlier this season, with the idea that he is bias, but after thinking about it and getting more info I am not sure. It might have been true in the fisher era, but that might have had something to do with Fisher and our Rep. We didn't play a game last year that he officiated and this year we are 0 and 2. The eagles game we hosed ourselves in the beginning of the game. The saints game with the fake punt, it had to do with the side ref and video review by the league office in New York. Here is a link that states the process.

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/for-petes-sake/article140596128.html

This is a quote from the commissioner on how the review process works.

We’re going to centralize the replay back here in New York,” Goodell said on “Mike & Mike,” per weei.com. “We want the referee’s input. … He can look at the play, be in communication back in our office with Dean Blandino, and Dean Blandino will have the final decision. We think that will move it much quicker.”

We got screwed no doubt, not sure it was his fault. I don't like his idea of holding. He lets most of it go, but I am not so sure it's only against us. I will be keeping an eye out though.

 

[Ewe83]

I hope for the Ram's sake it's not real, but if it's not then let him prove it, call a fair game for us for once

 

[majrleaged]

At least it isn't his whole crew. Anybody know which guy polices which area?

Season crew
R 52 Bill Vinovich 13 San Diego accountant, former NFL officiating supervisor
U 102 Bruce Stritesky 13 * Embry Riddle airline pilot
DJ 110 Phil McKinnely‡ 17 Vinovich UCLA inventory control, former NFL player
LJ 9 Mark Perlman 18 * Salem teacher†
FJ 31 Mearl Robinson 2 Cheffers Air Force instructor
SJ 60 Gary Cavaletto 16 * Hancock general manager, agricultural operations
BJ 17 Steve Patrick 5 Blakeman Jacksonville State owner, supply company


NFC championship game
R 52 Bill Vinovich 13 San Diego certified public accountant
U 102 Bruce Stritesky 13 Vinovich Embry Riddle airline pilot
DJ 13 Patrick Turner 5 Corrente Cal State-Long Beach plant manager
LJ 59 Rusty Baynes 9 Boger Auburn-Montgomery general manager, safety services*
FJ 97 Tom Hill 20 Hochuli Carson Newman teacher*
SJ 60 Gary Cavaletto 16 Vinovich Hancock general manager, agricultural operations
BJ 30 Todd Prukop 10 Corrente Cal State-Fullerton medical sales representative

 

[jrry32]

For 5 years of that we were in the top 2 or 3 most penalized teams in the league. I have agreed in another thread earlier this season, with the idea that he is bias, but after thinking about it and getting more info I am not sure. It might have been true in the fisher era, but that might have had something to do with Fisher and our Rep. We didn't play a game last year that he officiated and this year we are 0 and 2. The eagles game we hosed ourselves in the beginning of the game. The saints game with the fake punt, it had to do with the side ref and video review by the league office in New York. Here is a link that states the process.

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/for-petes-sake/article140596128.html

This is a quote from the commissioner on how the review process works.

We’re going to centralize the replay back here in New York,” Goodell said on “Mike & Mike,” per weei.com. “We want the referee’s input. … He can look at the play, be in communication back in our office with Dean Blandino, and Dean Blandino will have the final decision. We think that will move it much quicker.”

We got screwed no doubt, not sure it was his fault. I don't like his idea of holding. He lets most of it go, but I am not so sure it's only against us. I will be keeping an eye out though.

No, the Saints screwjob was because they gave us a terrible spot (which is 100% his fault). And those things rarely get overturned because they make some weak excuse about the angles. Further, when you look at the calls and non-calls, it's even worse. Here are our penalties:
1. Marcus Peters - Defensive Holding (Declined)
2. Marcus Peters - Pass Interference
3. Ndamukong Suh - Offsides
4. Aaron Donald - Unnecessary Roughness
5. Rodger Saffold - Unnecessary Roughness

Here were theirs:
1. Eli Apple - Defensive Holding
2. Michael Thomas - Unsportsmanlike Conduct (for his celebration with the cell phone)

Basically, the Saints had 1 penalty for 5 yards when it actually mattered. And they played our DBs a lot tighter than NO's.

 

[BatteringRambo]

Done, and thanks for starting this @jrry32!

 

[majrleaged]

No, the Saints screwjob was because they gave us a terrible spot (which is 100% his fault). And those things rarely get overturned because they make some weak excuse about the angles. Further, when you look at the calls and non-calls, it's even worse. Here are our penalties:
1. Marcus Peters - Defensive Holding (Declined)
2. Marcus Peters - Pass Interference
3. Ndamukong Suh - Offsides
4. Aaron Donald - Unnecessary Roughness
5. Rodger Saffold - Unnecessary Roughness

Here were theirs:
1. Eli Apple - Defensive Holding
2. Michael Thomas - Unsportsmanlike Conduct (for his celebration with the cell phone)

Basically, the Saints had 1 penalty for 5 yards when it actually mattered. And they played our DBs a lot tighter than NO's.

Well, I would say he doesn't spot the ball. In fact he is behind the play and can't possibly see where to spot the ball. He has to rely on the side judge. So on this I will disagree. The two penalties on Peters I have already stated that they were bogus calls that affected his game, but again, not the Ref's job. Saffold deserved the penalty. Donald not so much.

About kicking AD out of the game. It was a 28 - 0 blow out in the first game of the season in SF and AD lost his cool. You can't blame that game on anybody but Fisher. It is pretty amazing though that no Offensive holding calls were assessed. That is the part I don't like, but at least it was for both teams.

 

[Mackeyser]

For 5 years of that we were in the top 2 or 3 most penalized teams in the league. I have agreed in another thread earlier this season, with the idea that he is bias, but after thinking about it and getting more info I am not sure. It might have been true in the fisher era, but that might have had something to do with Fisher and our Rep. We didn't play a game last year that he officiated and this year we are 0 and 2. The eagles game we hosed ourselves in the beginning of the game. The saints game with the fake punt, it had to do with the side ref and video review by the league office in New York. Here is a link that states the process.

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/for-petes-sake/article140596128.html

This is a quote from the commissioner on how the review process works.

We’re going to centralize the replay back here in New York,” Goodell said on “Mike & Mike,” per weei.com. “We want the referee’s input. … He can look at the play, be in communication back in our office with Dean Blandino, and Dean Blandino will have the final decision. We think that will move it much quicker.”

We got screwed no doubt, not sure it was his fault. I don't like his idea of holding. He lets most of it go, but I am not so sure it's only against us. I will be keeping an eye out though.

Thing is that a lot of plays aren't reviewable.

And you KNOW it's bad when both the announcers AND their "in house ref" who's usually a former head of officiating for the NFL all disagree strongly with the refs on the field.

Heck, Joe Buck has maybe unconsciously made it a habit of simply calling out when refs miss false starts because they are so egregious. In our last game against the Cowboys, BOTH teams were guilty of some really obvious false starts and??? nothing.

Those false starts can kill drives or halt momentum.

 

[jrry32]

Well, I would say he doesn't spot the ball. In fact he is behind the play and can't possibly see where to spot the ball. He has to rely on the side judge. So on this I will disagree. The two penalties on Peters I have already stated that they were bogus calls that affected his game, but again, not the Ref's job. Saffold deserved the penalty. Donald not so much.

About kicking AD out of the game. It was a 28 - 0 blow out in the first game of the season in SF and AD lost his cool. You can't blame that game on anybody but Fisher. It is pretty amazing though that no Offensive holding calls were assessed. That is the part I don't like, but at least it was for both teams.

I'm not saying that kicking AD out changed anything. I'm saying that no other ref has seen fit to kick AD out of a game. And I think you're misunderstanding me. Vinovitch's crew blowing calls is the same thing as him blowing calls. I am glad that we aren't getting his full crew, but I am concerned because a head ref still has considerable sway over what is and isn't called.

 

[MarkMyWords]

Signed.

Probably already mentioned but a simple solution is:

There is a perceived problem with the AFC refs and there is a problem with the NFC refs....

Switch the crews.`

 

[Ewe83]

The thing is the petition isn't going to change anything really but it made me feel better to sign it and vent about it on twitter and to see that 400+ Rams fans and counting feel the same. But fuck Vinovitch, we shall overcome and get this win

 

[jrry32]

This is very weird:


Basically, the Saints got the same ref against the Eagles in the playoffs who called their blowout win over the Eagles during the regular season. Now, they're getting the same ref against the Rams in the playoffs who called their win over the Rams during the regular season. Uhhh . . . how does that happen?

 

[Ramrocket]

I see his appointment is getting some traction in the media.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...ed-and-the-rams-have-an-ugly-record-with-him/

 

[jjab360]

If nothing else, bringing public and league attention to Vinovich's biased history might persuade him to keep his rulings a little more honest on such a large stage.

 

[fearsomefour]

I signed.....them sighed.

 

[fearsomefour]

Signed.

Probably already mentioned but a simple solution is:

There is a perceived problem with the AFC refs and there is a problem with the NFC refs....

Switch the crews.`

This will never happen because it would be perceived as admitting there is a problem.